IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[oviedo]

That quote from him reminds me of a case in Toronto years ago, when a baby starved to death because his young, homeless mother didn't feed him properly. During the subsequent inquiry into his death and ways to prevent similar deaths in the future, she said "I don't want what happened to me to happen to any other mother" and I was revolted by her statement. First, it didn't "happen" - the baby died because she neglected him! And it didn't happen to HER - her baby suffered a prolonged, agonizing death. I see this same self-centredness and refusal to take responsibility in SA's statement.

I do as well - I know I should step away from this one because every time I research I find something else that just makes me so angry that this precious life was taken by an arrogant egotistical man who thought he could do something that should never ever be done, ever - I’ve been on many RCCL cruises and stood on deck 11 looking out those windows in port - I don’t even like taking a picture for fear of dropping my camera and yet - he looked out -twice by some accounts -and held her in a vulnerable position so that she slipped and he dropped her - 100feet to her death on pavement - I’m just mad at his arrogance and now instead of admitting his stupidity and saying to the world and his family - I’ve done a terrible thing - please please forgive me - we have his stepdaughter suing the cruise line to vindicate him - I’ve said it before but I think the video is worse than we imagine
JMO

 

[Kakidoll]

I remember reading early on there were medical issues either with her birth or early on. I can't seem to find that any longer... but it stuck out to me. Oh i wish we had those early threads available

 

[Kakidoll]

dbm double post

 

[LietKynes]

New details emerge in Baby Chloe’s cruise ship death
July 10, 2019
The grandfather of 18-month old Chloe Wiegand didn’t dangle and drop her — she fell because an open glass pane should have been closed securely, said attorney Michael Winkleman at a news conference on Tuesday.

Chloe fell to her death from deck 11 of a Royal Caribbean cruise ship, Freedom of the Seas, while it was docked in San Juan, Puerto Rico, on Sunday, according to José Carmona, a spokesman for the local Port Authority.
...
Winkleman said he was retained by the family on Monday to “set the record straight.” As he describes it, the toddler’s tragic death is unlike many of the original reports circling the internet.

----
just going back to the beginning.. I hope the prosecution is making notes of all these "versions" by the attorney representing the family regarding exactly what happened. I am thinking those early reports of what happened have some truth to them IMO

bolding mine

Isn't it good that we have Mssr. Winkleman to "...set the record straight" ?
It's seriously somewhat insulting as MW is implying that the cruise line is at fault and even being deceptive, about Chloe's death.

About the "...original reports circling the internet..." ; do tell me -- is MW reading every post on WS and other cruise-related forums, anxiously scouring any comments that might disagree with his professional analysis ??
(At least we know what he's doing in his spare time.)
Because he sounds as though he was right there when the incident occurred !!

It must make him frantic with worry to think that there are other witnesses on board that day and have their own accounts of what actually happened.
And there are cameras covering more than one angle; iirc , which are the best investigative tools for cases like this, as the cameras will show exactly how this unfolded.

RCCL are not the villain in this tragedy and they have every right to defend themselves.

 

[al66pine]

Model of "The Window" & Surrounding Area?

Let’s think about a model...The best way would be to reconstruct the scene. Build a duplicate scene. Set up the railing. Put in windows. Same kind. Use a doll the height and weight of Chloe. Same with SA. And then put the dolls/figures into various positions. On the railing. On the edge of the window frame. Then lean over. Lean back.
Yes. A mock up would demonstrate the story up close and personal for the jury.
Rarely, but at times the court will allow the jury to go to the scene.

@Midwestmom2019 bbm sbm Thanks for the ideas. Mock-up/model of crime scene. That's what was in the back of my mind when I posted wish list of photos w ruler/scale.
Could help show the lengths G'father had to go to, to put Chloe in position of danger.
- -- Crim trial, would help PR's case against G'father, showing his /negligence/recklessness/disregard.
--- Civil trial in plaintiff-parents' (potential)suit, could help cruiseline's defense.
Models & demo's in the court room can be very persuasive.* jmo, could be wrong.

-----------------------------------------------
* BTW, speaking of full size mock ups & crime reenactment/demo, before the jury: Kelly Siegler, former *advertiser censored*'t prosecutor, Harris Co TX. In ct-room she reenacted woman/def on bed, stabbing hubby 190 times.
Woman who stabbed husband 193 times faces new jury
Kelly Siegler - Biography - IMDb

 

[katydid23]

Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death

Winkleman said Anello didn't realize there was no glass directly in front of him.
Within five seconds Chloe falls more than 100 feet below.

"She's sitting on the wooden banister, why did he then lean forward with her?" Begnaud asked Winkleman.

-"I think it's pretty obvious why they leaned forward, and that would be so that you could get a better view," Winkleman said.

"What do you say to the fact that he raised her and put her on this banister which the cruise line might argue was not meant for young children to be sitting on?" Begnaud asked.

"If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said.

"The only way that you can prove or disprove anything that Sam said is based on the video and based on his testimony … Those are the only pieces of evidence you have," Winkleman said. "There were no eye witnesses. There's no one who's come forward to tell any different story. … So all you have is Sam's testimony, his story and the video."

After Chloe fell out of the window, Anello drops to his knees, according to Winkleman, and he yelled out loud, "I just dropped my child. I thought there was glass! I thought there was glass!"


above BBM
IMO Winkleman set the -no glass- narrative (before viewing video)
now he’s moved to the -leaning forward to get a better view- narrative(post viewing). followed up with -there was no SIGN,no witnesses,no one telling a different story.
Sadly I think he would blame Ship staff if they were anywhere near the tragedy.SMH!

MOO

"If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said.


This^^ is so ridiculous. He is saying that an adult needs a sign, warning them not to place a one yr old child up on top of a thin guard railing, inches away from an open window, 150 feet above the concrete below.

So should the cruise lines be required to post warning signs every 3 feet saying 'do not set your children up here on the guard rAilings'?

 

[LietKynes]

People did mock ups of the Rebecca Zahau Nalepa (sp?) murder and the Gareth William's death.
YT and elsewhere.
I think in both cases they were unable to reenact the deaths the way they were supposed to have happened.

I realize it'd be different in Chloe's case.
I keep thinking the boat was not only sitting still in the port, but the windows are slanted outwards, and one would have to lean slightly forward to look out.
SA looked out of that window, according to the security footage.

 

[katydid23]

Some children ask to be picked up constantly to be at your height level.

People hold children that age on their hips all the time, I agree completely ridiculous to hold her by the window but this is a case of him not holding her tight enough.

I don't think the picking her up to see is that crazy it's not holding her correctly that's the issue. But i think the whole thing is accidental.

IMO

If he just picked her up and held her in his arms, then no problem. But he allegedly placed her on top of the metal guard railing, first standing on it , then he had her sitting on it. That is CRAZY, in my opinion. She was one and a half.

 

[lonetraveler]

From the link:

Anello can be seen moments later lifting Chloe up to give her a better view before he places her on a metal railing, still holding her with two hands as the pair lean forward to get a better view.

Three to four seconds later she vanishes through what is the only visibly open window in the entire bank of glass.
...
.

Clipped for length by me.

+8
"Anello can be seen lifting Chloe up to give her a better view before he places her on a metal railing, still holding her with two hands as the pair lean forward to get a better view. Pictured: A railing against an open window on a Royal Caribbean ship, which Anello's lawyers say is nearly identical to the one Chloe fell through."
The photo above and the statement below caught my attention. I already knew that the railing is wooden but when I read that "he placed her on the metal railing" I went Oooooooooooooooooooooooo. The only metal is the ledge directly inside of the window itself. This could actually explain how on earth a very small child was on an area where she could lean over and fall out of the window. JMO.

 

[lonetraveler]

Is the video edited ?
If he sat her on the railing, and if she fell-- I'd expect her to slip between the railing and the bottom window.
She still could've been injured from just that.
It seems like he must have sat her down on the window's ledge.
Horrifying.

I just posted about the very same thing. It appears, according to the report, he stood her on the wooden railing at first, holding her hand and then sat her on a "metal railing"? The only metal rail is along the window itself and the open window has tracks that the windows slide in to close. OMG.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

"If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said.


This^^ is so ridiculous. He is saying that an adult needs a sign, warning them not to place a one yr old child up on top of a thin guard railing, inches away from an open window, 150 feet above the concrete below.

So should the cruise lines be required to post warning signs every 3 feet saying 'do not set your children up here on the guard rAilings'?

And...the way MW spouts about Chloe's favorite pastime of banging on windows like it's the most natural, normal child's thing to do! Well, hmm, maybe that didn't work like the plan, so...? $$$$$$$

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Clipped for length by me.

+8
"Anello can be seen lifting Chloe up to give her a better view before he places her on a metal railing, still holding her with two hands as the pair lean forward to get a better view. Pictured: A railing against an open window on a Royal Caribbean ship, which Anello's lawyers say is nearly identical to the one Chloe fell through."
The photo above and the statement below caught my attention. I already knew that the railing is wooden but when I read that "he placed her on the metal railing" I went Oooooooooooooooooooooooo. The only metal is the ledge directly inside of the window itself. This could actually explain how on earth a very small child was on an area where she could lean over and fall out of the window. JMO.

But, there wasn't any mention of "a view" until just lately. Early on it was "she asked to be picked up to bang on the window". Oh, the mendacity!

 

[LietKynes]

I just posted about the very same thing. It appears, according to the report, he stood her on the wooden railing at first, holding her hand and then sat her on a "metal railing"? The only metal rail is along the window itself and the open window has tracks that the windows slide in to close. OMG.

He really did put her out that window; with her little feet/legs hanging out, most likely.
So the lawyer needs to stop saying SA didn't know that there wasn't glass there.

Although I'm thinking now he's saying G-pa lifted her up for a better view. Knowing that window was open.
SA needs to do at least 3-5 years in prison in PR.
Maybe he'll change his ways ?

 

[katydid23]

And...the way MW spouts about Chloe's favorite pastime of banging on windows like it's the most natural, normal child's thing to do! Well, hmm, maybe that didn't work like the plan, so...? $$$$$$$

I know.
I can understand her banging on the glass at a hockey rink. Only because it its strong tempered glass.

But it wouldn't be good to encourage a toddler to routinely bang on glass doors/windows because if they were holding toys in their hands they could break the glass quite easily. It is not a good habit for them.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I know.
I can understand her banging on the glass at a hockey rink. Only because it its strong tempered glass.

But it wouldn't be good to encourage a toddler to routinely bang on glass doors/windows because if they were holding toys in their hands they could break the glass quite easily. It is not a good habit for them.

I have never ever encountered anyone who thought leaning or banging on glass of any kind was OK for a toddler/child to do. Have you? If the rest of the fam was on board with this behavior and allowed or condoned it, well...I just don't even know what to think. I don't like this idea one bit.

 

[katydid23]

I have never ever encountered anyone who thought leaning or banging on glass of any kind was OK for a toddler/child to do. Have you? If the rest of the fam was on board with this behavior and allowed or condoned it, well...I just don't even know what to think. I don't like this idea one bit.

Well, I don't either.

But if grandpa had let her stand on the floor, up against the bottom window, and bang to her heart's content, I wouldn't have had an issue with him. And if that window gave way and she fell out to the concrete below, I'd support them in their lawsuits against the Cruiseline.

To me, it was his poor reckless decision to place her up alongside or up against the ledge of an open window that is so egregious. JMO

 

[lonetraveler]

Sorry, only parts of your post are showing for me-- not sure about everyone else.

After looking at the photo of that window--- the ledge is 6 or more inches from the wooden railing.
Plus the window ledge is a bit higher than the railing.
So how exactly did she fall ?
If she was propped on the railing, she would've fallen between the window and the wall below.

I'm thinking he sat or stood her on the window ledge and she fell forward --or he WAS dangling her and dropped her.
Maybe she sensed the ground was way below her and panicked and struggled , causing him to lose his grip ?
Ugh !

If he was smoking he could have been trying to hold onto her with just one hand.

 

[lonetraveler]

Well, I don't either.

But if grandpa had let her stand on the floor, up against the bottom window, and bang to her heart's content, I wouldn't have had an issue with him. And if that window gave way and she fell out to the concrete below, I'd support them in their lawsuits against the Cruiseline.

To me, it was his poor reckless decision to place her up alongside or up against the ledge of an open window that is so egregious. JMO

I totally agree with you.

 

[oviedo]

If he was smoking he could have been trying to hold onto her with just one hand.

This !

 

[oviedo]

Clipped for length by me.

+8
"Anello can be seen lifting Chloe up to give her a better view before he places her on a metal railing, still holding her with two hands as the pair lean forward to get a better view. Pictured: A railing against an open window on a Royal Caribbean ship, which Anello's lawyers say is nearly identical to the one Chloe fell through."
The photo above and the statement below caught my attention. I already knew that the railing is wooden but when I read that "he placed her on the metal railing" I went Oooooooooooooooooooooooo. The only metal is the ledge directly inside of the window itself. This could actually explain how on earth a very small child was on an area where she could lean over and fall out of the window. JMO.

Yes and he would have to lift her over the wood banister to sit there - the video will show the truth and while it may be harsh I think it needs to be released - they can always edit it but my guess is it won’t be because it will show the truth of his negligence IMO