IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

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katydid23 said:
"If that was the case and they want no one to sit on it, they should say no one should sit on it. … There's no sign that says that. There's no warning, no nothing," Winkleman said.


This^^ is so ridiculous. He is saying that an adult needs a sign, warning them not to place a one yr old child up on top of a thin guard railing, inches away from an open window, 150 feet above the concrete below.

So should the cruise lines be required to post warning signs every 3 feet saying 'do not set your children up here on the guard rAilings'? :rolleyes:
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Agree!! By this standard, the whole boat should be enclosed, or the whole earth! Signs should be posted everywhere reminding our feeble minds of the dangers of gravity.
 
MsMarple said:
That may be the case but I doubt it's been specifically edited to remove SA dangling Chloe out the window. If the video shown to msm has SA standing Chloe on the railing then sitting her down on it the implication would then be that right after she and SA leaned forward to look out the window he somehow lifted her again and dangled her out the window. Then it would have to cut back to her sitting on the railing and falling out the window. It makes no sense.

Besides, the Chief of Police in PR corrected the earlier statement. Is he in cahoots with the lawyers? Why would either lawyer risk his license to practice law to win one specious case? And RCCL sure as hell would be contacting the reporters to say the video had been altered. IMO what's been reported in msm is horrible enough as it is and there's no need to try and bend that information into a conspiracy by the lawyers.
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Yes, it doesn't look possible for her to fall out of the window from a sitting position on the railing. If she was standing on the wooden railing it would still be difficult, IMO, to fall out of the window since the railing is at least six inches (I think it's further than that) from the window. It looks more probable if he sat her on the window ledge.
 
Sorry I have gone through the thread and just wanted to ask...

Do we know that grandad smokes? If so do we know he was actually smoking? I don't think he was.

Also I have seen comments on here about him possibly of having been drinking....again no accounts say he was, I think?

So to paint a picture of a man as tipsy and smoking isn't very helpful.
 
oviedo said:
Yes and he would have to lift her over the wood banister to sit there - the video will show the truth and while it may be harsh I think it needs to be released - they can always edit it but my guess is it won’t be because it will show the truth of his negligence IMO
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If he did lift her over the wood banister to sit in the window sill, it would explain him leaning over toward the window as stated in the article.
 
SaguaroSpirit said:
I have never ever encountered anyone who thought leaning or banging on glass of any kind was OK for a toddler/child to do. Have you? If the rest of the fam was on board with this behavior and allowed or condoned it, well...I just don't even know what to think. I don't like this idea one bit.
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It really bothers me when I see parents letting their kids do things like this.
Every time I have been to an aquarium I have seen people letting their kids knock on the glass while standing right next to the sign that says "Please do not tap on the glass."
It doesn't surprise me at all that parents would let their young children bang on the glass at a hockey rink.
I've seen much worse, including parents not paying attention at all when their kids are doing dangerous things.
A child that age banging on the glass at hockey ring seems pretty mild in comparison. I would imagine it would take great deal of strength to break it.
I think it's more a matter of respecting the rules than a safety issue.
And there are plenty of people who seem to think it's ok to disregard rules or to not be considerate of others around them.

Imo
 
Wowno17 said:
Sorry I have gone through the thread and just wanted to ask...

Do we know that grandad smokes? If so do we know he was actually smoking? I don't think he was.

Also I have seen comments on here about him possibly of having been drinking....again no accounts say he was, I think?

So to paint a picture of a man as tipsy and smoking isn't very helpful.
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I haven't read anything about him be a smoker but according to the family he is not a drinker.
There was no mention that he was smoking in the video either, when he followed the child to the window and lifted her up.

Imo
 
Wowno17 said:
Sorry I have gone through the thread and just wanted to ask...

Do we know that grandad smokes? If so do we know he was actually smoking? I don't think he was.

Also I have seen comments on here about him possibly of having been drinking....again no accounts say he was, I think?

So to paint a picture of a man as tipsy and smoking isn't very helpful.
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It seems like something a man who was tipsy or distracted would do.

Would a sober, reasonable man prop a one yr old up on a window ledge, 11 stories up ?
 
neesaki said:
You’re right, now they’re stooping so low as to blame baby Chloe for causing her own death. These people sicken me to no end.

Another thing, viewing SA’s pics in these news reports... probably shouldn’t say this, but something about him seriously gives me the creeps, smarmy ? Maybe it’s just me, due to my own bad experiences with men during my childhood. Anyway....
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I think that the whole situation is bizarre. Who can figure out a man who picks up a baby, and puts her on a safety rail to "bang on glass"?

All of the time, I see people who let their children do the craziest things...the one thing that drives me insane is to see children standing up in a shopping cart. If your child falls out, and gets brain damage, is it Walmart's fault?

If you had been there, watching this, would you have said something to the Grandfather who was being careless with Chloe, or minded your own business?
 
mickey2942 said:
If you had been there, watching this, would you have said something to the Grandfather who was being careless with Chloe, or minded your own business?
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you know I've actually thought about this...my first reaction is that I would be afraid my reaction might cause a reaction and a fall...I would hope I could have done something
 
MsBetsy said:
I haven't read anything about him be a smoker but according to the family he is not a drinker.
There was no mention that he was smoking in the video either, when he followed the child to the window and lifted her up.

Imo
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That's what I though it's just when I personally read through the threads I had an impression of a man who was probably smoking and possibly drinking. I just don't think that's fair as there is no evidence for that.
 
Wowno17 said:
That's what I though it's just when I personally read through the threads I had an impression of a man who was probably smoking and possibly drinking. I just don't think that's fair as there is no evidence for that.
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I felt like the attorney was a bit defensive regarding the drinking...He may not be a heavy drinker but it's common on embarking on various vacations to have a celebratory drink - Cuban rum in Cuba - mimosas on the way to Hawaii - etc., etc... my personal experience, anyway.
 
Wowno17 said:
That's what I though it's just when I personally read through the threads I had an impression of a man who was probably smoking and possibly drinking. I just don't think that's fair as there is no evidence for that.
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PR LE wanted him to take a breathalyzer. Mom and dad both jumped in to say no. Why? Bc they may have suspected SA had a few drinks? If SA is a non drinker, per lawyer, again, why would you BOTH jump in to say no to breathalyzer?

The window is not in a child’s play area. It’s an adult lounge, with smoking and non smoking sections.
Plenty of posts along those lines. Only the lawyer is spewing play area, didn’t know glass not there. SA admitted he dropped the baby when first asked. And it was about banging on the glass. Not looking out at the view.
Tragic. No matter what the circumstances.
 
Wowno17 said:
Sorry I have gone through the thread and just wanted to ask...

Do we know that grandad smokes? If so do we know he was actually smoking? I don't think he was.

Also I have seen comments on here about him possibly of having been drinking....again no accounts say he was, I think?

So to paint a picture of a man as tipsy and smoking isn't very helpful.
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Respectfully disagree.
Actually it's very helpful as people are trying to figure out this man's state of mind.

IF he was drinking (according to the lawyer SA is a non-drinker) or wanting a smoke that would make this more understandable.
Because only a drunk person or someone craving a cigarette --and thus distracted --would deliberately place a baby in an open window and either drop her or lose his grip; or possibly whilst 'playing a whoopsie game'.

If he was doing none of those, and sound in his mind (no early onset dementia) that leaves other options on the table.
Some of us are open to other options because that's what's left.
Chilling and completely horrifying to contemplate.

If the video showed an intentional dropping (where he opened his hands outward and let her fall), we'd be seeing more serious charges.
So for negligent homicide, he probably looks as if she slipped out while he was still holding on to her.
This does not make me feel any better for Chloe.

Sounds like he will not say anything more than "...They can't do anything more to me than what's happened..." (paraphrased)

Take what the lawyer says with a huge grain of salt as he does not know this family other than being hired by them to be a 'spin doctor' and a PR spokesperson.
And that is his job --he's a maritime lawyer who also represented the young lady who fell off another cruise ship while drinking and blamed the ship for 'allowing her to drink so much' --among other grievances.
You literally can't make this up.
 
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Midwestmom2019 said:
PR LE wanted him to take a breathalyzer. Mom and dad both jumped in to say no. Why? Bc they may have suspected SA had a few drinks? If SA is a non drinker, per lawyer, again, why would you BOTH jump in to say no to breathalyzer?
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don't cruises track purchases? I've only been on one cruise eons ago but thought all purchases are tracked somehow....and then there's all the cctv....
 
max99 said:
don't cruises track purchases? I've only been on one cruise eons ago but thought all purchases are tracked somehow....and then there's all the cctv....
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Yes, it's a given that RCCL knows very well if SA and/or the parents or other grandparents were drinking .
They don't need to divulge that to us. ;)
I'd expect that they've tracked all purchases and movements of this family from the moment they boarded.

They provide a safe and enjoyable cruise for responsible people.
They cannot and should not be blamed for the acts of idiotic or malicious people !
 
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