IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[sl222]

bolding mine

Ita.
She "asked" to be picked up and placed in front of that open window; ergo -- it was her fault.
And his statement, "What more can they do to ME that hasn't already happened..." (paraphrased)
Yes, well. It didn't "happen".
Accidents happen. Cars slide off icy roads and crash into a fence.
That happens.
Not this.
Chloe's death was the result of a deliberate act.
An 'act of games'. Or whatever SA was doing.

SA speaks as if the ship had windows open at toddler height and higher, and anyone could've fallen to their death.

SA is quoted "there's nothing worse than grief / losing her" etc.

Worse is falling 150 feet.

Some of these articles don't do their homework and quote other articles which said 115 feet.

Worse is not just grief but knowing it's your own fault a child died. That's way worse than grief for a child who died. She didn't just die, she was killed by negligence.

Somewhere, in my early hunting around right after this happened, on a web location that may have been his, there was a snide/angry intro stating something like "Thanks for stopping by" or "Oh I see you found me." followed by "Yes, I'm a piece of s---." I don't know if it was his or not but it was ugly. However I don't know if it was his. If this post is not okay I apologize and will dbm. It is no longer there in that format and I don't know the location.

Yes, at the airport he did look like he was upset at the reporters filming him and he turned away. I am surprised they didn't have someone with him to prevent him from making any statements in court or to reporters.

I do feel sorry for him because as stated he knows he did a terrible thing and he didn't set out that day to ruin everyone's lives in his family not to mention his own.

 

[they'll get you]

I haven't read anything about him be a smoker but according to the family he is not a drinker.
There was no mention that he was smoking in the video either, when he followed the child to the window and lifted her up.

Imo

Men’s beards get stained if they smoke.
Bifocals.



Is this a drinker’s gut??
It’s not healthy looking.

 

[sl222]

bolding mine

Ita.
She "asked" to be picked up and placed in front of that open window; ergo -- it was her fault.
And his statement, "What more can they do to ME that hasn't already happened..." (paraphrased)
Yes, well. It didn't "happen".
Accidents happen. Cars slide off icy roads and crash into a fence.
That happens.
Not this.
Chloe's death was the result of a deliberate act.
An 'act of games'. Or whatever SA was doing.

SA speaks as if the ship had windows open at toddler height and higher, and anyone could've fallen to their death.

I agree about the use of the passive phrase "happened." This was so much more than something that "happened to him." The only one something happened to was Chloe.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

The dollar amount that the Wiegand's are asking for in their lawsuit would far exceed that amount; imo.

Does anyone know what amount they expect to receive if they win ?
One would assume they're going for a large pot which would be up to or in excess of 80-100 mil.
Because taxes and M. Winkleman will take a hefty chunk out of that -- so the amount has to be worth the time and trouble they've put into this.

Still the RCCL needs to fight this as no one wants the death of a child to be their fault.
And in settling-- RCCL will be admitting that Chloe's death is on them and not SA.

Not necessarily. Settlement documents always say not admitting liability but to resolve litigation uncertainty blah blah blah.
Could settle if liability is disputed and cannot really be certain.
PR.
Cheaper than risking 80 million but I don’t think this case is worth anywhere near that amount. Mom didn’t witness that contact with cement. No other family did as far as I know. Only saw after math after she hit the concrete.
If in fact she had learning disabilities, that would be a huge minus for family.
She was not working. No economic benefits lost.
I don’t know but maybe maritime law has limits on payments. Like tort reform.
Finally, I don’t know about maritime law, but there are no federal income taxes. Unless for lost wages. Don’t know about state taxes.
All in all, most cases settle before trial. And truly, most cases really have merit.
This one does not appear to have any merit. Other cases maybe used to declare someone incompetent to stand trial.

 

[neesaki]

I could certainly conceive hurting my STEP parent though. My dads girlfriend? She’d likely follow my kid through that window. Not that I’d EVER trust the woman with my baby to begin with.




Okay what about POLARIZED lenses?
I don’t wear them because I despise the way they change the colors of things.

You voiced my thoughts exactly, from either direction, I'm all with you. I know one thing for sure, I would never consider putting a step parent before my own daughter. Something is wrong in this picture, IMO.

 

[they'll get you]

I haven't read anything about him be a smoker but according to the family he is not a drinker.
There was no mention that he was smoking in the video either, when he followed the child to the window and lifted her up.

Imo

I don’t think they were in the smokers section.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Respectfully disagree.
Actually it's very helpful as people are trying to figure out this man's state of mind.

IF he was drinking (according to the lawyer SA is a non-drinker) or wanting a smoke that would make this more understandable.
Because only a drunk person or someone craving a cigarette --and thus distracted --would deliberately place a baby in an open window and either drop her or lose his grip; or possibly whilst 'playing a whoopsie game'.

If he was doing none of those, and sound in his mind (no early onset dementia) that leaves other options on the table.
Some of us are open to other options because that's what's left.
Chilling and completely horrifying to contemplate.

If the video showed an intentional dropping (where he opened his hands outward and let her fall), we'd be seeing more serious charges.
So for negligent homicide, he probably looks as if she slipped out while he was still holding on to her.
This does not make me feel any better for Chloe.

Sounds like he will not say anything more than "...They can't do anything more to me than what's happened..." (paraphrased)

Take what the lawyer says with a huge grain of salt as he does not know this family other than being hired by them to be a 'spin doctor' and a PR spokesperson.
And that is his job --he's a maritime lawyer who also represented the young lady who fell off another cruise ship while drinking and blamed the ship for 'allowing her to drink so much' --among other grievances.
You literally can't make this up.

Bartenders are required to stop serving patrons who are impaired due to over abundance of grain or grape. Dram Shop.
But depends if she was really that drunk or stupid or other facts.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

where did you see this about a $300k policy?

Earlier threads on here.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Something is up, like it sounds like he was on drugs or something even taking what he's saying at face value. "I remember trying to find her on the floor and then I saw her fall, I saw her fall all the way down..." So first he started looking for her on the floor and then he saw her fall all the way down. By his own account him starting to look for her even though she was right in front of him caused her to fall out the window, which would at best mean he was impaired at the time.

 

[LietKynes]

Here is another photo taken from RCCL by a passenger.
Chest high railing for most-- but not if you're 6' 5", Lol.



SA would've had to hoist her up on that window ledge.... My god. This really stinks; something hinky.

Another photo taken by a passenger. Open window next to the closed one.



I'm thinking even if he had sunglasses on (the glasses that adjust to bright/darker light and are photosensitive ?) -- the fact that the video footage shows him looking out of the window before picking her up gives SA no excuses.
The cameras had to have caught her being picked up and then falling or being dropped -- from other angles.

 

[max99]

Here is another photo taken from RCCL by a passenger.
Chest high railing for most-- but not if you're 6' 5", Lol.

View attachment 217604

that's a great shot of heights and window tints.

 

[BeachSky]

Grandfather charged in cruise ship death describes "disbelief" at toddler's fatal fall

SA is unable to look at the reporter the entire interview...crying without tears...disturbing.

they need to quit doing interviews.

Wha....?
I guess the “entire “ interview will be aired tomorrow of him saying pretty much nothing. Glad there is ship video.

MOO

 

[sl222]

Grandfather charged in cruise ship death describes "disbelief" at toddler's fatal fall

SA is unable to look at the reporter the entire interview...crying without tears...disturbing.

they need to quit doing interviews.

Totally agree. I can't fathom why he would do an interview. It can only make him look a lot worse. And to me it did exactly that. I have less faith in his version than before. In particular one thing he said, "I don't know what else to tell you" - professionals would say that indicates he does in fact know more to tell. I guess he is not listening to his family on giving interviews because they seem like smart people, professionals in the law, and they would certainly tell him to shut up. At least I would think they would. Someone who did what he did is not likely to be good at giving any kind of statement especially not off the cuff and in front of a reporter. Even this short sympathetic interview, and he still makes himself look worse IMO. Thank you for the link, I had no idea he had sat down on camera to talk about this.

 

[Sapphire1719]

I’m new here, but have been following this case for quite awhile, it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
I saw the clip of SA tonight, and while it broke my heart for him on the one hand, the REAL victim here is poor Chloe, who experienced a horrific death and had her life senselessly taken away by an act of pure negligence. The whole thing is just awful
I’m not trying to be morbid, but it’s said that Chloe died on impact. I hope that’s true and that she experienced no physical pain, but...didn’t early reports say she hit an awning first, then the concrete? Just trying to get the timeline straight here, and hoping this beautiful baby was spared any pain, beyond her last moments of terror, which is horrifying enough

 

[BeachSky]

Here is another photo taken from RCCL by a passenger.
Chest high railing for most-- but not if you're 6' 5", Lol.

View attachment 217604

SA would've had to hoist her up on that window ledge.... My god. This really stinks; something hinky.

Another photo taken by a passenger. Open window next to the closed one.

View attachment 217606

I'm thinking even if he had sunglasses on (the glasses that adjust to bright/darker light and are photosensitive ?) -- the fact that the video footage shows him looking out of the window before picking her up gives SA no excuses.
The cameras had to have caught her being picked up and then falling or being dropped -- from other angles.

He said he remembers “searching for her on the floor”...and then seeing her fall. Was he drunk, having trouble seeing...?Searching???

JMO

 

[they'll get you]

Not necessarily. Settlement documents always say not admitting liability but to resolve litigation uncertainty blah blah blah.
Could settle if liability is disputed and cannot really be certain.
PR.
Cheaper than risking 80 million but I don’t think this case is worth anywhere near that amount. Mom didn’t witness that contact with cement. No other family did as far as I know. Only saw after math after she hit the concrete.
If in fact she had learning disabilities, that would be a huge minus for family.
She was not working. No economic benefits lost.
I don’t know but maybe maritime law has limits on payments. Like tort reform.
Finally, I don’t know about maritime law, but there are no federal income taxes. Unless for lost wages. Don’t know about state taxes.
All in all, most cases settle before trial. And truly, most cases really have merit.
This one does not appear to have any merit. Other cases maybe used to declare someone incompetent to stand trial.

I quoted and bolted your comment.
This one does not appear to have any merit.
Thank you for making things clearer.

My question is if RCCL has conformed to all legal regulations and everything is deemed safe and legal then how is it possible to sue that company?

Nothing was faulty.

I’d bet the farm that everything on that ship is checked off and deemed legal on a regular basis.
The chairs in that area are lightweight but the tables IIRC are quite heavy, maybe that so no child could pull a table over and climb up.

 

[they'll get you]

You voiced my thoughts exactly, from either direction, I'm all with you. I know one thing for sure, I would never consider putting a step parent before my own daughter. Something is wrong in this picture, IMO.

Is he a step parent? Some reports say step some say maternal.
Confusing.

 

[sl222]

He said he remembers “searching for her on the floor”...and then seeing her fall. Was he drunk, having trouble seeing...?Searching???

JMO

Right. That makes NO sense. You wouldn't have to "search" but simply "look." He makes it sound like he looked all around him for some time; for a few seconds. Then he had time to see her fall "all the way down."

Also that statement makes him sound truly impaired if he had no idea where Chloe was. You don't just hold a child and then think "poof" they're gone. No responsible person would ever have to wonder that.

Each time he states "I thought there was glass" he slaps his leg. He says also that he keeps repeating that to himself to this day. Nope. This is his excuse and it's not true.

I too wondered why Winkleman referred to a metal rail when the rail is wood. It looks exactly like a ballet barre from the pictures. Metal??? That IS strange. Since as mentioned - the metal is part of the window.

 

[LietKynes]

Is he a step parent? Some reports say step some say maternal.
Confusing.

Chloe's step-grandfather and the mom's stepdad.

 

[BeachSky]

I’m new here, but have been following this case for quite awhile, it’s absolutely heartbreaking.
I saw the clip of SA tonight, and while it broke my heart for him on the one hand, the REAL victim here is poor Chloe, who experienced a horrific death and had her life senselessly taken away by an act of pure negligence. The whole thing is just awful
I’m not trying to be morbid, but it’s said that Chloe died on impact. I hope that’s true and that she experienced no physical pain, but...didn’t early reports say she hit an awning first, then the concrete? Just trying to get the timeline straight here, and hoping this beautiful baby was spared any pain, beyond her last moments of terror, which is horrifying enough

I thought I read she screamed.
I could be wrong. Her mother screamed ..the ear witness said they’d never heard such a sound.
Him,not the ship or windows or signs...HE made the bad choices. She fell to her death because of HIS bad choices. She was not a beautiful toy.She was a precious vulnerable toddler entrusted to his care FGS!

MOO