IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #8

[Midwestmom2019]

I don't think that the brother was at the scene at all. Per the doctor's statement, the boy didn't come down to the infirmary to join the family until much later, with the other grandparents. If he was at the scene why wouldn't he have come down with his parents? And why was he kept separated from everyone else in the infirmary?

Order of arrival to infirmary:

1. SA and his wife.
2. While still attending to them, KW & AW accompanied by security and placed in a room away from SA.
3. "Later" the son and "other family" accompanied by a care team member, which sounds as if it is some amount of time that has passed before this group came down, and again, are kept away from both of the other parties.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that the boy had actually been there or seen any of it. If he had I'd assume he'd be hysterical and traumatized himself, possibly clinging to his parents in a need to feel secure himself after all of that, not "sitting in an office playing with his cell phone" like he's just bored and waiting for this to be done so he can get back to doing vacation things. It sounds as if he was intentionally kept away as if to protect him until perhaps his parents had calmed down or there was just a better time to try and explain to him that his sister had died.

Doctors Declaration from the prelim response:
Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 4.pdf

Old MSM articles talk about her brother arriving first before mom got to window. No, I don’t have the links....all of this was posted several times here on WS.

 

[Kindred]

I had not notice previously but in the photos of the window wall in the MW complaint (pages 4 to 6) all the operable windows have been closed. Not sure when these photos were taken but it's certainly interesting that they do not represent the scene as it was at the time of the incident.

I noticed that too. It's odd that they were taken when no one was around but while the tape was still up. Judging by the lighting they were taken either just before dusk or shortly after sunrise, but the family wasn't on the ship at sunrise and the deck would have been crawling with investigators like was saw in other photos closer to sunset. I'm still wondering who the heck took those pictures

 

[Midwestmom2019]

There's no percentage of fault for a criminal trial. It's only if SA is either guilty or not guilty. And as for the civil case, there is currently no percentage of fault either. The complaint is that the windows are faulty/designed unsafely and RC should have known something like this would have happened. If it gets to a jury trial the only thing they will be asked is if they agree with that or not. No % of anything

In the civil trial for sure RCCL will plead it was SA’s fault. They probably will bring him in as a third party defendant.
As for criminal, you can have co-defendants but tried separately. So I would think the existence of another potential criminal defendant would be disclosed.
FWIW.

 

[Kindred]

Old MSM articles talk about her brother arriving first before mom got to window. No, I don’t have the links....all of this was posted several times here on WS.

Yes and all of it is just speculation and rumors, just like the story they were all in the buffet when this happened. There is no evidence from the documents provided that the brother was anywhere near any of this when it happened

 

[Kindred]

In the civil trial for sure RCCL will plead it was SA’s fault. They probably will bring him in as a third party defendant.
As for criminal, you can have co-defendants but tried separately. So I would think the existence of another potential criminal defendant would be disclosed.
FWIW.

There is no other co-defendant. PR hasn't charged or even considered charging anything that RCCL did as criminal. There is no criminal case against RCCL and there is no percentage of guilt being considered in the criminal trial

**edited for spelling

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Not exactly, the complaint says they boarded at 1:15 and went to Windjammer to eat. Windjammer is the buffet on deck 11 and is typically the only restaurant open during embarkation. Most people head there since the rooms are often not yet available to guests as housekeeping is still in the process of cleaning from the previous occupants.

The complaint also says after lunch KW and CW changed into swim suits and went to the H2O Zone at 2:40pm. Lunch was done and they probably got access to their rooms, changed and went back up to deck 11. At this point we don't really know where the rest of the family was. However, the complaint does say that KW got called away on cruise related business. I think Kindred is likely correct on this, ship staff contacted a stateroom and SA volunteered or was sent to go watch Chloe while she dealt with the issue. The complaint says SA "went up to deck 11". Perhaps all the grandparents were settling into their rooms when the call came to attend to Chloe? Still really no idea where AW or WW were.

Whatever the Complaint says is MW spin on the story. It’s the way he wants the story to be told. Always remember that point. Same for RCCL. They will answer and plead what they need to plead.
Then “the truth is somewhere in the middle.” That’s the most important piece of this case.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

There is no other co-defendant. PR hasn't charged or even considered charging anything that RCCL did as criminal. There is no criminal case against RCCL and there is no percentage of guilt being considered in the criminal trial

**edited for spelling

We’ll agree to disagree.

 

[Kindred]

Whatever the Complaint says is MW spin on the story. It’s the way he wants the story to be told. Always remember that point. Same for RCCL. They will answer and plead what they need to plead.
Then “the truth is somewhere in the middle.” That’s the most important piece of this case.

RCCL DID reply. The DID NOT dispute the timeline.

New Motion to Dismiss 2-13.pdf

 

[Kindred]

We’ll agree to disagree.

If RCCL is being charged criminally by PR I'm sure the forum would be very interested to see this information

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Yes and all of it is just speculation and rumors, just like the story they were all in the buffet when this happened. There is no evidence from the documents provided that the brother was anywhere near any of this when it happened

One of the earliest media reports went so far as to say that when Chloe's brother found out what had happened, he wanted to go and help his little sister. I doubt this "request" took place, but it probably garnered sympathy for the boy and his family.

 

[LietKynes]

One of the earliest media reports went so far as to say that when Chloe's brother found out what had happened, he wanted to go and help his little sister. I doubt this "request" took place, but it probably garnered sympathy for the boy and his family.

I agree.
And there will be more fabrications to come in the future by SA or others up to and possibly incl. Winkleman to garner even more support.

 

[neesaki]

Old MSM articles talk about her brother arriving first before mom got to window. No, I don’t have the links....all of this was posted several times here on WS.

I recall that as well.

 

[LietKynes]

In the civil trial for sure RCCL will plead it was SA’s fault. They probably will bring him in as a third party defendant.
As for criminal, you can have co-defendants but tried separately. So I would think the existence of another potential criminal defendant would be disclosed.
FWIW.

bbm
Agreed.
Re. the bolded : I believe you're saying that more than SA might have been involved in Chloe's death ?
Maybe not; but if this goes to trial there's a possibility more will be revealed.

As of now, SA is being charged with negligent homicide, which could be upgraded to manslaughter.
The longer the Wiegand's fight for SA and their payout, they risk charges being upgraded.
He should have just acknowledged his error ,and accepted either jail time and/or probation and all of this would go away.
The longer the family fights this the uglier it's going to get.

Obviously RCCL was not at fault re. the windows.
Chloe had to be lifted up and out, and in the video SA's arms reach a bit over his head as he's swinging her onto the window ledge.
It'd be a different story if there was a window at toddler height and she'd tumbled out of it.
The way Winkleman spun his fable the first time he mentioned a 'wall of glass' and 'hidden hole'.

Eta: grammar police

 

[oviedo]

Chloe has a media thread so maybe some answers are there? the dailymail posted the pictures with the yellow tape -IIRC they attributed them in their article.

IN-Grandfather charged cruise ship death of Chloe Wiegand MEDIA TIMELINE NO DISCUSSION

 

[LietKynes]

I recall that as well.

Yes, it was in a link in the very first thread for Chloe which was deleted at someone's request ?
Think about who wants the truth buried "ala Winkleman" and take a guess.

The second thread was opened after SA was charged with criminal negligent homicide.
This is more serious than a drunk driver knowing he/she cannot and should not drive, but gets in their car and speeds down a sidewalk or through a crosswalk, killing people.
Chloe's death was described in PR msm as "an act of games". A deliberate "fooling around" that led to a baby's death.
Or possible something more heinous ?
We don't know-- but more will come out at the trial.

If all of the video footage is viewed there will be an accurate account of which family members were in what parts of the ship; right after Chloe was lifted, dangled, and dropped out that window.
I'd imagine RCCL knows this and are keeping it confidential until the trial.
They have every right to defend themselves.
Which is why it's so weird that the parents didn't want to view the footage.
Obviously the video reveals the lie and would make it clear that the payout for RCCL's "wrongdoing" is not just bogus but false accusations.

RCCL should counter sue.
They didn't kill Chloe and unless there are other accounts of babies' being dropped out of cruise ship windows at 11 stories high --this is the first time I've read about a death in this manner.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

^ Excellent post, LietKynes

 

[mheido67]

I noticed that too. It's odd that they were taken when no one was around but while the tape was still up. Judging by the lighting they were taken either just before dusk or shortly after sunrise, but the family wasn't on the ship at sunrise and the deck would have been crawling with investigators like was saw in other photos closer to sunset. I'm still wondering who the heck took those pictures

They were definitely taken in the port at San Juan. There is an airport adjacent to the pier that is visible in the background outside the windows. I confirmed on Google Earth that the locations match. So these photos would have had to have been taken sometime between when CW fell and sunset since FotS sailed that evening around 10pm (about 2 hours later than it was supposed to.) That being the case it's interesting that all the windows are closed as they clearly were not when CW fell. There are numerous photos of the crowd of investigators on deck 11 in darkness so presumably this was before the investigators arrived? Which would mean that the scene was not preserved as it would have been at the time of the incident. I think from RCCL's perspective exactly how many of those windows were open when CW fell is very important.

 

[mheido67]

Whatever the Complaint says is MW spin on the story. It’s the way he wants the story to be told. Always remember that point. Same for RCCL. They will answer and plead what they need to plead.
Then “the truth is somewhere in the middle.” That’s the most important piece of this case.

Why would MW create a false timeline for events prior to the incident? WHy would he create a fictional time for boarding when that can clearly be established via electronic records? Why would he lie about when and where they went to eat? Surely he knows there are video cameras everywhere. There is absolutely no reason for MW to create a fiction about any of that.

 

[al66pine]

Was KSW Called Away? "Needed to Help" w "Cruise Issue"?

....timeline given by the family in the civil complaint.
"11. ...approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded.... Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch. After lunch, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand and Chloe changed into swimsuits, and at approximately 2:40 p.m., they began to play in the pool(s)....
12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise ...." chloe wigand civil.pdf

@Kindred TYVM. bbm sbm. Jumping off your helpful post. Peeeple, puuullleeese read paragraph 12 carefully. ^^^ Nothing about RCL employee "calling" KSW to help w a "cruise issue." ^^^
Assume timeline is accurate, for this post.
It's possible a ship employee did call or summon her, by:
a) leaving message on her cabin phone (per a cruiser in other thread). She wd/not get that message while w Chloe in splash pad.
b) calling on her cell, if she had it w her, then either talking w her or leaving voice mail or text message. KSW cd/have gotten this word while in splash pad.
c) RCL employee wandering ship looking for her ["Call for Phillip Morris" ??? LOL], not likely imo unless it's possible by bracelet/medallion/proprietary tracker.
Or
It's possible, it was something KW did of her own volition & timing. A couple cruising posters said, maybe KSW was checking on crib arrangements or making reservations for special meal, or who-knows.
It's also possible there was no "cruise issue" she needed to help w. Maybe she wanted to nap, shop, read, have alone time, or have adult time w AW. What-ev.
IOW, maybe she told fam she needed to "help w a cruise matter."

Finally, Complaint does not specify if/how KSW communicated w SA, to watch Chloe. Maybe SA was at splash pad lounge chair or Squeeze bar counter or adjacent tables. Maybe she just waved him over to H2O Zone, altho Complaint strongly suggests he was on a level lower than Deck 11: "as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise..."
Those pesky phrases "came up" and "as such." From a close-by lounge chair, did SA come "up" to the H2O Zone, like a batter leaving dugout, coming "up" to home plate? Okay, stretching a bit?
Or maybe KSW called him on cell, or relayed request thru her Mother/other fam to SA. Which brings us back to question, why SA? Maybe he volunteered, thinking - great photo op: an airplane selfie w Chloe. IDK. Lots of unanswered questions.

 

[mheido67]

Chloe has a media thread so maybe some answers are there? the dailymail posted the pictures with the yellow tape -IIRC they attributed them in their article.

IN-Grandfather charged cruise ship death of Chloe Wiegand MEDIA TIMELINE NO DISCUSSION

Those Daily Mail articles are trash. Riddled with inaccuracy. (not a slam on oviedo)

Love some of the photos they included as well.

This one which is clearly, not taken at the time of the incident and is, I'm pretty certain, a bad photoshop job. For one thing the ship has the wrong side to the pier. The Squeeze Bar is on the port side facing the water in this photo. And look at the difference in definition of the two ships. FotS is in sharper focus than the other ship and is more brightly lite. Pretty bad shadow work too. Looks like they took a screen cap from Google Earth and plopped a photo of FotS into it.

Or this one, which has the incorrect window circled.

Plus we get to hear about the "elderly, silver haired" 51 year old grandpa from the Daily Mail. Garbage.