IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[sv614]

6. The alleged LS phone call to DR doesn't make any sense. Even if LS was completely wasted, why would she choose to call DR about her phone, when the last place she saw DR was in the very same apartment she was (allegedly and currently) standing in? Why wouldn't she have called her roommate instead, who was with DR the last time she saw either of them?

Any insights or ideas? If I've missed something that helps to explain any of the above, please enlighten me. Thanks.

Holy TRUTH. I figured I had thought of everything but I definitely never thought of that. And it is such a good, and important, point.

 

[LongTallTexan]

There is SO much we don't know....so much information or conversation that would 'fill in the blanks' for us speculators, but we just don't know. The real question is what does LE know. I"m not local, so I'm reying on LE to solve this, not what I know from MSM and WS. I just hope they have most of the answers we are asking here, becuase most are really great issues and questions.

However, I do feel that LE has most of those gaps filled in in order to create the time line and it appears that there is some credence they're (LE) is giving to the 4:15 call and 4:30 sighting.

 

[cluciano63]

I am wondering if JR found himself having to explain a 4:15AM call from his phone to DR's and decided to say LS called? I believe that DR did not in fact answer, and also that he probably knows nothing about what happened after he last saw LS. But JR may have been reaching out to him for some reason...why? And after no answer, then what happened?

 

[phantomthought]

Many times in a random abduction case the police will reach out to the general public to be aware and report people that might be acting suspicious since that day.Changing their routine,appearance,mood.Unusual interest in the case or talking excessively about it.I have seen none of that.They just pound on her friends at every news conference.If she was abducted by some random stranger on her walk home I wonder how much help her friends that were not with her that night could be.This seams to me to point to the police thinking this was someone she knew.

 

[JeannaT]

Many times in a random abduction case the police will reach out to the general public to be aware and report people that might be acting suspicious since that day.Changing their routine,appearance,mood.Unusual interest in the case or talking excessively about it.I have seen none of that.They just pound on her friends at every news conference.If she was abducted by some random stranger on her walk home I wonder how much help her friends that were not with her that night could be.This seams to me to point to the police thinking this was someone she knew.

I agree with you that the do seem to be leaning that way now - but at first, when they were looking for the truck they seemed VERY interested in that, and seemed to believe that truck held the answers. Meanwhile, Lauren's mother was already probing the friends for more help. I think initially LE was focused on a stranger. Even now - I don't see LE focusing much on the friends, I see the her mother doing that. She may be right.

 

[phantomthought]

I think that the answer to question #6 is key to the whole case. I also doubt that the call was initiated by LS. However, I dont think that DR is a POI or suspect or that he did anything wrong. One possibility may be that if LS was not doing well at that time (in a scenario that she might be having the beginning of OD symptoms) someone might have tried to call DR for help? That is a more believable scenario to me. Of course, all this is speculation. We simply dont know. And no one but the person who made the call knows.

She could have thought she left the phone at JRs and DR took it with him or to ask if he saw it in the apartment or saw her with it after she left.

 

[bessie]

Welcome, northsider. I'll try to fill in some of the blanks for you. If I'm wrong, someone will come along and correct me, I promise. My answers in green.

I've been trying to catch up on all the prior information in the official stories, press conferences, message threads, etc., for the past few days. After reading all of these items, these are the primary questions/thoughts I have about things:

1. So CR gets jumped by JW's friends in the 5th floor elevator lobby at Smallwood. Is LS with CR when this happens? If they punched him because he had his hands all over LS, then why would they let her leave with him? And if all this went down, then...

I still have some doubt about the nature of the altercation, but assuming it was because LS was with another guy, if LS was determined to leave with CR, they couldn't stop her without using physical restraint. It's just my opinion, but I think they were more concerned with getting a point across to CR than actually protecting Lauren.

2. Did JW's friends call/text him and tell him about the altercation? If no, then why? If so, did JW simply decide to sit at home and mope about his gf being with another guy?

Excellent questions with no answers. I tend to believe at least one of the friends would text JW, but who knows when he actually read it. His whereabouts aren't known that night. It's possible he was asleep when most of this was going on and didn't see the text until the next morning; or he did see the text and let it ride for the moment. Or, he read it that night and went looking for LS.

3. A poster mentioned this earlier, and I thought it was a good point - both HT and LS knew JR, who lived next to CR and MB. Assuming LS had hung out at JR's townhouse before, it seems unlikely that she'd never met CR before the Indy 500 earlier that week.

I've seen conflicting statements about when LS met CR.

4. JW texts LS throughout the night, then again in the morning, and Sports calls him and says the cell phone is there? So his first move is to go to LS' apartment to see if she's there. Then when she isn't, his second move is to call her parents and report her as missing. That seems to be the consensus from what I've read.

In a nutshell, yes. I believe it was afternoon when Sports called JW, though.

But if JWs friends had informed him that they punched CR and that CR left Smallwood with LS, wouldn't the next move be to go to CR's building and look for her? Obviously HT, who had let JW into the apartment, knew that CR and LS had been together that night.

That's what I would think, and for all we know, he did. One local student stated that CR approached him and some friends asking if they'd seen "a little blonde girl". The article says that was the next morning, on June 4th. So, I'm not certain if the date is correct, or if it was actually Friday morning, the 3rd. If CR was asking that question on Friday morning, then someone had already alerted him LS was missing. Who and when, we don't know. But it's possible JW went to his apartment.And again, if it was Saturday the 4th, it's a moot point.

5. Other than the altercation between CR and JW's friends, what happened during the 25 minutes they were at Smallwood?
Can't say. Only know that Lt Parker said Lauren did not go into her apartment.

6. The alleged LS phone call to DR doesn't make any sense. Even if LS was completely wasted, why would she choose to call DR about her phone, when the last place she saw DR was in the very same apartment she was (allegedly and currently) standing in? Why wouldn't she have called her roommate instead, who was with DR the last time she saw either of them?

There's no mention of DR being with Lauren at JR's apartment after they watched the game. I can't recall if it's been said DR was at Sports.

As for the phone call, we don't know for sure Lauren made it. Let's say she did, and she was looking for her phone. It might sound crazy, but still possible, that she could remember DR's number but not her roommate's. Most people with cell phones these days just punch the number in to their contacts list and don't bother to memorize it. Maybe there was something about Dr's number that made it easy to remember.

Then there's the possibility that the call had nothing to do with her phone. If she found herself in a precarious situation with JR and needed help, who better to call on than a male buddy, especially if he is also a friend of JR. Personally, in that situation, I would not call my boyfriend.

Any insights or ideas? If I've missed something that helps to explain any of the above, please enlighten me. Thanks.

:welcome5:

 

[phantomthought]

I agree with you that the do seem to be leaning that way now - but at first, when they were looking for the truck they seemed VERY interested in that, and seemed to believe that truck held the answers. Meanwhile, Lauren's mother was already probing the friends for more help. I think initially LE was focused on a stranger. Even now - I don't see LE focusing much on the friends, I see the her mother doing that. She may be right.

I do not think they could ignore a vehicle they thought was their at the same time circling the block.The driver is the only person the police publicly cleared and pretty quick.Which put the pressure back on the friends.Also they said a couple of days ago they have looked at over 300 hrs of video with more to go and never asked the public's help in identifying any other vehicle that was out driving that night.

 

[rlc]

The only reasonable explanation I have for LS calling DR is that she wanted someone to let her into the building (since he lives in the same building, it requires a key card, and she didn't have hers), and did not want to call her roommates. Maybe because she was mad at them, which I think is a possibility. girls have disagreements. especially girls living together. the situation of the night, her out with the guys and not going to her apartment when she was in the building, then hopping from place to place, makes me think she may have been having a disagreement with her roommates. Or they were going to bed when she left them and she did not want to wake them up hours later. When I lived in a building with a front door lock that had to be swiped, and lost my card (which I often did) I always called the person I saw most recently because I figured they were the most likely to still be awake. I guess she also may have called him if she wanted an actual escort home, maybe because JW's friends had been out and about and she was worried, and JR refused to walk her, she may have wanted to call a guy who lived in her building. It would make no sense to request another female to walk alone to come get her so she didn't have to walk alone. and calling a friend in the building at least meant they would be home when they dropped LS off. I would be curious to find out if she had ever locked herself out of the apartment before, and what she did at that time.

The other explanations I have for an unanswered phone call from JR's phone to DR is a request for help in covering up a crime/disposing of a body, or a weak attempt to come up with an alibi (see, LS still alive at 4:15, she called DR from my phone).

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Just a few points on the above:

#3 - I believe the only ambiguity about when CR met LS results from a poorly-written sentence in one media report that could be read to suggest they met two weeks before LS disappeared, when in fact it meant two weeks before the date of the article/interview. I don't believe there's any dispute that they met at the Indy 500 over Memorial Day weekend.

#4 - This is sort of the same deal. The article actually said February 4th, not June 4th, which is obviously incorrect. The events would have to be on June 3rd.

#5 - responding to the original post, I believe LS and CR were at Smallwood for just 10-12 minutes, not 25.

#6 - I believe it was said that DR returned to Smallwood when LS left for the bar. I believe that the call had to do with helping LS get home safely, as DR had gone with LS to JR's at the beginning of the night, and had nothing to do with her phone.

 

[kissdegirl]

I think that the answer to question #6 is key to the whole case. I also doubt that the call was initiated by LS. However, I dont think that DR is a POI or suspect or that he did anything wrong. One possibility may be that if LS was not doing well at that time (in a scenario that she might be having the beginning of OD symptoms) someone might have tried to call DR for help? That is a more believable scenario to me. Of course, all this is speculation. We simply dont know. And no one but the person who made the call knows.

I don't feel that DR has anything to do with it personally, I just wanted to point out that he also has an atty, so I think LE is considering him a POI. My guess is as good as anyone's of course, and I think someone called DR to maybe borrow his vehicle or something, but after no answer moved on to someone else. I wonder if LE has record of another call after that where the person actually answered. Inquiring minds sure would love to know.

 

[LongTallTexan]

I'm beginning to get the feeling from everywhere that the majority of POIs are cooperating and there IS NO EVIDENCE against them, therefore, their stories seem to check out by LE so far.....so maybe the call from JR's apt was for DR to come get her, maybe he did see her leave and maybe JW, JR, and everyone else are not responsible.

I get the feeling that 'other' friends have not provided the information and that the activites and events of the evening are more complex and involve more people than we know.

There's more to this I think.....

 

[TonyGatto]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

And HT not only lives in the building, but she's a roommate. HT could have made sure LS not only got in the building, but safely in bed. We haven't heard from AR or BW, both who,along with HT, have spoken to the press. They've been pretty open, so you would think if there are other calls at least one of them would be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about any other calls is probably because there aren't any.

Only one single call, to DR, and when it went unanswered, for some unexplained reason, no further calls are made to others.

Evidence of only one single call has to be contemplated when deciding the veracity of the claim that LS used the phone.

 

[cj1132]

IF persons known to LS were involved in her disappearance and get away with it, they still have to live with themselves for the rest of their lives. Back in the late '70's in my hometown of about 1,200 people, three guys and one girl were in an apartment drinking. The girl was accidentally shot and killed by one of the guys. They guys all said she had shot herself accidentally. It all got swept under the rug by LE and the investigation was closed. It has always been common knowledge that one of the three guys did it. Fast forward to now. One of the three guys is an alcoholic, the second one became addicted to drugs and died of an overdose and the third one committed suicide. They got away with it legallly but couldn't live with themselves. They may not have received a legal sentence but their consciences sentenced them. In LS's case, I hope the person or persons who know something come forward and tell what they know.

 

[bessie]

Just a few points on the above:

#3 - I believe the only ambiguity about when CR met LS results from a poorly-written sentence in one media report that could be read to suggest they met two weeks before LS disappeared, when in fact it meant two weeks before the date of the article/interview. I don't believe there's any dispute that they met at the Indy 500 over Memorial Day weekend.

#4 - This is sort of the same deal. The article actually said February 4th, not June 4th, which is obviously incorrect. The events would have to be on June 3rd.

#5 - responding to the original post, I believe LS and CR were at Smallwood for just 10-12 minutes, not 25.

#6 - I believe it was said that DR returned to Smallwood when LS left for the bar. I believe that the call had to do with helping LS get home safely, as DR had gone with LS to JR's at the beginning of the night, and had nothing to do with her phone.

I'm glad you reminded me about the "February 4th" error. The LoHud article reads June 4th:

June 12, 2011 Written by Shawn Cohen

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, June 4.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110612/NEWS02/106120426/Spierer-search-continues-Sunday-police-still-haven-t-spoken-some-persons-interest-?odyssey=nav|head

USA Today reads February 4th:

By Shawn Cohen and Josh Duke, Gannett

Updated 6/13/2011 12:57 PM

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

I point this out because it's important to know if the June 4th date is correct. I might have to go back and search early threads because I recall some debate about this issue. Was the day wrong in the first article, then picked up in the second article and the wrong month added? :waitasec:

 

[Darcyline]

It is times like these that I wish we (well, police) could bring in everyone (every single POI or "secondary tier" people) and put them in rooms until one of them cracks. I know that isn't possible, legal, or potentially even ethical, but it frustrates me so much that one of them probably knows something, but won't either because they are scared or unsure or afraid of getting in trouble. Her parents are absolutely breaking my heart.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

And HT not only lives in the building, but she's a roommate. HT could have made sure LS not only got in the building, but safely in bed. We haven't heard from AR or BW, both who,along with HT, have spoken to the press. They've been pretty open, so you would think if there are other calls at least one of them would be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about any other calls is probably because there aren't any.

Only one single call, to DR, and when it went unanswered, for some unexplained reason, no further calls are made to others.

Evidence of only one single call has to be contemplated when deciding the veracity of the claim that LS used the phone.

I could be wrong, but my understanding was that you don't need assistance to get into Smallwood, the building (at all hours?), though you may need a card to use the elevator and/or get into your room.

I believe the call was for assistance getting LS home, something for which HT or any other female (without a car?), would not be ideally-suited.

 

[bessie]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

And HT not only lives in the building, but she's a roommate. HT could have made sure LS not only got in the building, but safely in bed. We haven't heard from AR or BW, both who,along with HT, have spoken to the press. They've been pretty open, so you would think if there are other calls at least one of them would be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about any other calls is probably because there aren't any.

Only one single call, to DR, and when it went unanswered, for some unexplained reason, no further calls are made to others.

Evidence of only one single call has to be contemplated when deciding the veracity of the claim that LS used the phone.

Your point about HT being a little too quick to say it was LS who placed the call is well taken. How could she possibly be certain, after all. Perhaps she's a bit naive and gullible. JR told her LS made a call, and she saw no reason to doubt him. Her willingness to speak so openly with the media hints at naivete, as well, in my opinion.

As for the phone call itself, I pointed out in my earlier post that it might well have been LS looking for help to get home. DR's a guy, he lives in her building, and he knows JR and was at JR's apartment earlier in the evening. If LS was doing drugs at that time, he probably knew. In other words, she didn't have to go into a long explanation because DR was somewhat aware of the situation. I see him as the perfect candidate for LS to call if she was uncomfortable in JR's apartment, for whatever reason, and needed assistance to get out of there and get home.

But...I can envision a totally different scenario, just not as clearly as the one above.

ETA: I'd like to know if LS drank anything while watching the game at JR's.

 

[akh]

The 4:15AM phone call could be exculpatory in a way too. Assuming JR actually told police she was calling DR about her lost phone (and that could be because she wanted to ask him if she had it with her when they were together or ask if he picked it up for her possibly) then how did JR know to make up a story about a lost cell phone as cover for the call?

The police should know whether anyone with info about her losing her phone had talked with JR and told him about it before they questioned him and he told the story about the phone call. ...assuming he did tell the police that info.

Of course it's possible she told JR she'd lost her cell phone before anything happened to her.

If JR didn't know she'd lost her cellphone that night and just made that story up to cover for a call he'd made himself in trying to create an alibi then that would be a very risky gamble to make just based on her not having her phone with her. She could've intentionally left it at her apartment and someone known that, it could've been broken and left behind somewhere and several people have known that, she could've loaned it to someone.

So if the only way before talking to police (and telling them who had made the call and why) JR could've known LS lost the cellphone was from LS herself then it would tip the scales a little more toward being able to believe that part of the story.

 

[rlc]

I could be wrong, but my understanding was that you don't need assistance to get into Smallwood, the building (at all hours?), though you may need a card to use the elevator and/or get into your room.

I believe the call was for assistance getting LS home, something for which HT or any other female (without a car?), would not be ideally-suited.

Which then makes me wonder if she needed assistance because of something that occurred between her apartment and MB/CR's. I wish I could see the video they have of her in those hours.