IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #13

[Mophebius]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI

I have been curious since this was reported if there could be anything to this? The NY post has said that there has long been a link between the LS's and JR's families.

I know HT has said that they were all friends (LS, HT, JR) and that HT and LS used to spend alot of time at JR's in the past.

Does anyone know if JR and LS were "friends" or "aquaintances" before their time at IU? I think that could potentially present a new angle to the case if substantiated.

 

[sueC]

@btown... Could you put the 3:38 reported sighting on the map?
Also, would it be possible to put dotted lines around the cam viewable area at the end of the alley going into the gravel lot behind 5 North College?

I think it would help if we could see where the bartender reports she saw LS and the Dark Man as well as the range of the Cam in that area.

My understanding is that her sighting was closer to one of the N. College Ave openings that connect the Gravel lot to N. College Ave. i don't recall hearing that her report would have placed LS in range of the alley cam or any other cam. (Also still curious why LE would doubt her at all?)

Thanks!

I'd also like to see the exact location of the 3:38 sighting on the map. Is Tony Gatto the only source we have for the location? "10th and College" could mean the actual corner of 10th & College, or it could mean the apts called "10th and College". Here's a pic by Btown showing those apts (on left) in relation to the handrail and gravel lot.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I think that if LE thought that this potential witness wasn't being truthful, they would have dismissed her account long ago. I didn't get that at all from the Press conference, LE seemed to speak very carefully of this witness's account. So as to not dismiss it, but rather say that it may very well have happend, just not at the time that the witness suggested that it happend. They also said that the person seen on video with LS, that this witness may have seen is someone known to LE. Is it possible that the witness (who was supposedly shown pictures of 6 or 7 POI's) was wrong about who she saw LS with and the timing, but was otherwise right in her sighting?

It seems that what LE is referring to on the cams is the ALLEY cam at 2:48 unless they have other cam evidence they have not revealed. this is in fact why I was puzzled because I did recall the 3:38 bartender witness saying it was over on N. College and that Alley Cam definitely would not capture that. So, I don't understand why LE would speak this way about the cam??? The Witness is saying 10th and N. College but the Last cam to capture LS was the Alley cam pointing towards the gravel lot behind the 5 N. College apts 50 minutes earlier. These are 2 very distinct areas. There is another Cam at 10th and College but it doesn't point toward the street. So why would LE even bring up the cams if the area she said she saw LS was not in viewing range or angle of the cams?

 

[bessie]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI

I have been curious since this was reported if there could be anything to this? The NY post has said that there has long been a link between the LS's and JR's families.

I know HT has said that they were all friends (LS, HT, JR) and that HT and LS used to spend alot of time at JR's in the past.

Does anyone know if JR and LS were "friends" or "aquaintances" before their time at IU? I think that could potentially present a new angle to the case if substantiated.

I don't know just how close LS and J R were as friends, but the fact that their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years tells me she would feel a degree of safety and familiarity being with him. And I wonder if something didn't happen to disillusion her and send her out into the street.

 

[Mophebius]

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/06/lauren_spierer_missing_in_indi.php

I was just reading old stories about the case combing for something I missed. I found something on this true crime report. I remember this being reported early on and then LE quieted down about it. But the fact that LS was seen arguing outside with 3 men the night of her disappearance raises my eyebrows a bit. LE having been pretty tight lipped about the argument makes me really wonder the exact nature of the argument? Was it a group of the guys that confronted CR and LS? or was it someone else? Was it when LS was alone? or with CR?

 

[Mophebius]

Bessie says,

"I don't know just how close LS and J R were as friends, but the fact that their grandparents were neighbors for 20 years tells me she would feel a degree of safety and familiarity being with him. And I wonder if something didn't happen to disillusion her and send her out into the street."

Exacly, or maybe due to a long standing relationship between the families JR felt a greater pressure to hide whatever may have happend to LS to save family ties?

 

[VeryVeritas]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/mom_vs_mum_ugY7m4oec8dcMheGbA0PYI

I have been curious since this was reported if there could be anything to this? The NY post has said that there has long been a link between the LS's and JR's families.

I know HT has said that they were all friends (LS, HT, JR) and that HT and LS used to spend alot of time at JR's in the past.

Does anyone know if JR and LS were "friends" or "aquaintances" before their time at IU? I think that could potentially present a new angle to the case if substantiated.

This would give LS a reason to trust JR and find common ground. It's a small world, right?

This article however does capture JR's silence and how the most important person is the quietest. it's like gravity pulling down... I can't imagine any group of people like this suddenly all getting lawyers and not talking unless they knew something happened.

I have to stop and wonder why would CR and MB even need a lawyer? If CR was put to bed by MB and MB says LS went with JR and JR said he was the last to see her. Why would CR and MB need a lawyer? They have fears of being linked to whatever happened and they must know why.

I did some reading about Voyles. He is a sharp guy. Perhaps he is sharp enough to negotiate immunity for JR if he reveals what happened and where LS is. Sure I can see getting the best defense lawyer money can buy... but what i can't see is why you would at the same time block the investigation if you are innocent. Instead of looking like an innocent man with LE trying to pin something on him. JR looks like a guilty man, where just about anything he says will spill the beans. The longer he is silent the more guilty he looks. It's not like he's some guy down the road - he is where the road ends!

It looks to me like LE is going to have to negotiate with Voyles if they want some answers. And I wouldn't be surprised that if you want the whole truth, it will mean freedom for JR.

 

[VeryVeritas]

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/06/lauren_spierer_missing_in_indi.php

I was just reading old stories about the case combing for something I missed. I found something on this true crime report. I remember this being reported early on and then LE quieted down about it. But the fact that LS was seen arguing outside with 3 men the night of her disappearance raises my eyebrows a bit. LE having been pretty tight lipped about the argument makes me really wonder the exact nature of the argument? Was it a group of the guys that confronted CR and LS? or was it someone else? Was it when LS was alone? or with CR?

I remember that and my view is that it was sloppy reporting. I think it was a reference to the incident with CR where CR was punched.

What is of interest as you note is that the nature of that argument has never been revealed, nor have the people who hit CR been identified. LE knows who they are, but why wont' they say? The speculation was for a long time that it had something to do with them defending JW's love interests. But I think it was something else. What? The statements from the beginning were to attack CR's character about how he was on the List of people not allowed at smallwood, etc... Yet no specific reason given for his assault. I do find it odd that CR remains quiet about that too.

 

[docwho3]

I did have a question:

Is this information accurate to the best of our knowledge?

'. . . June 10, Bloomington police mentioned the need for DNA samples.
They also spoke about the last place video cameras caught Lauren behind
Five North Townhomes in an alley after 3:00 a.m. That is where they
found her keys and a small coin purse. . .'
(BBM)
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...eirers-disappearance-20110617,0,4164052.story

Does this article seem to claim they have video of her essentially losing
those keys and coin purse? If so is the article correct in that regard as far
as we know?

 

[Mophebius]

I did have a question:

Is this information accurate to the best of our knowledge?

'. . . June 10, Bloomington police mentioned the need for DNA samples.
They also spoke about the last place video cameras caught Lauren behind
Five North Townhomes in an alley after 3:00 a.m. That is where they
found her keys and a small coin purse. . .'
(BBM)
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...eirers-disappearance-20110617,0,4164052.story

Does this article seem to claim they have video of her essentially losing
those keys and coin purse? If so is the article correct in that regard as far
as we know?

To my knowledge the "just after 3am" timeline was used early on in the case. Later the timeline was revised and LE said they felt "more comfortable" with the 2:51 am time as the last confirmed on video.

 

[Gabby66]

I wish I knew the answer to that question. Maybe alot? Maybe nothing? Maybe his family forced him to attorney up? I can tell you that this Voyles character would have alot higher retainer fee than any Junior in College I know could afford on their own.

The fact that JR ditched town almost immediatly after LS's disappearance, attorneyed-up with-in 3 days or less and has been less than cooperative in the case is at the very least concerning and drawing "red flags" from more than sleuthing bloggers. IMO

I completely understand where you're coming from. It seems to me that there are two reasons to not cooperate with LE:

1. Guilty and don't intend to admit to a crime. (Obvious)
2. Innocent but don't want to incriminate yourself. (If JR is innocent, even saying that he was the last person to see her, factors in a cloud of suspicion. If JW were to admit they had broken up - may point to motive. Everything said/admitted can add to a new theory).

On the other hand, cooperating with LE can benefit because:

1. If you are guilty, they may reduce charges for being cooperative (happens a lot)
2. If you are innocent, you tell them what you know (nothing to hide)

Many people assume that being uncooperative is a bad sign (sign of guilt) but not necessarily. At the risk of sounding as though I have a tie to one of these kids (I DON'T), I totally "get" why they aren't talking. That doesn't mean that I agree with it. I honestly have no idea what I'd recommend if my son was in this situation. I know that I'd recommend he tell the truth....but does that mean that you just come out and lay it all on the table upfront, or wait until you're being questioned under oath? Not sure. We can all say what we THINK we'd do but in all honest, we can't really imagine. The innocent boys must feel VERY conflicted. Surely they know SOMETHING (even small)....perhaps what drug LS may have taken, where it came from, and overheard conversation, what time she arrived/left somewhere, what happened in that alley, etc. But they are also being faced with the possibility of altering their future. Remember, even if they are not guilty of any crime, and even if LE gives them immunity, LS's parents can come forward with a Wrongful Death Civil Suit. These kids seem to have lots of $ and that's likely where this will be headed. One kid comes forward to say, "I know that she had cocaine because I gave it to her." and BAM. LS had a heart condition (of course probably unknown to these kids, but this wasn't Tylenol)....he admits to giving her an ILLEGAL drug that hours later could have killed her, and even if he wasn't near her when she may have died, he can be found guilty of Wrongful Death (Civil).

 

[jjenny]

I understand that. I just think you have to focus on the basics and go with your gut. You have a girl who has met a new man and decided to spend the night with him. Meanwhile her BF (or ex-BF) who has known her for many years sits at home. It looks like the long-term relationship is done and many emotions will probably start to flow.

Some people have suggested LS could have run away, but how probable is that? She is a girl that loved college life to the fullest and was going to begin an internship in a few weeks.

Then some also think an abductor could be involved. But in order for that to happen the abductor would have to have a ton of luck with the timing and all sorts of other things.

If I was investigating I would start with JW and work from there.

And the boyfriend wouldn't need "ton of luck?" The exact same logistics would be involved with the b/f scenario as with stranger abduction, and it would probably be even more difficult to fit everything in the b/f scenario. At least the stranger could have just been in the area. Since JR apparently watched her leave and walk down the street, no one was waiting for her next to CR's, MB's and JR's apartment building. So how would the b/f know when she was going to leave JR's apartment and what route was she going to take? How would the b/f not be on cameras? There is a very small window of opportunity to have done anything to LS and not show up on camera.

 

[Gabby66]

And the boyfriend wouldn't need "ton of luck?" The exact same logistics would be involved with the b/f scenario as with stranger abduction, and it would probably be even more difficult in the b/f scenario. At least the stranger could have just been in the area. How would the b/f know when she was going to leave JR's apartment and what route was she going to take? How would the b/f not be on cameras?
There is a very small window of opportunity to have done anything to LS and not show up on camera.

I "buy" the bf theory if LS went to his house after leaving JR's, because of the "luck" reasons that you stated above. I do think it's entirely possible that she went there. I also think it's possible (slightly) that some stranger had some "luck" on his side (only because it DOES happen). Even though it seems more likely that a friend/acquainted was involved, kids ARE abducted by strangers and I'd assume luck was always on their side.

 

[jjenny]

I "buy" the bf theory if LS went to his house after leaving JR's, because of the "luck" reasons that you stated above. I do think it's entirely possible that she went there. I also think it's possible (slightly) that some stranger had some "luck" on his side (only because it DOES happen). Even though it seems more likely that a friend/acquainted was involved, kids ARE abducted by strangers and I'd assume luck was always on their side.

How would she get there without being on camera? Clearly she would not be avoiding areas with cameras, and yet there is no video of her after 2:51 am.

 

[The Smurf]

You all have great ideas. I hope we learn more about the case soon.

Here's my perspective on what happened, BTW I'm a guy in his 20s that went to Purdue in Indiana.

I believe that the circumstantial evidence overwhelmingly points to the BF.

He and Lauren were friends since childhood and he invited her to Indiana University for his fraternity formal while she was still in High School. So she was not just some casual girl to him, I bet they talked a lot about living together in the future.

Then a few weeks ago she meets another guy, and that dream life he always imagined for them starts to crumble apart. Finally, that weekend she hangs out with the new guy instead of him. So while she is partying on a summer weekend with the new guy he is sitting at home by himself probably stewing in his anger at losing her. His friend (I assume) punches the new guy and Lauren chooses yet again to be with the new guy as they walk out of Smallwood. I'm sure the (ex)BF learns what happened soon after. That was probably the last straw of the relationship there........

I snipped your post for space purposes, but this is not evidence, circumstancial or otherwise. This is a case of you making up a story. We do not know that, at 21, he had a dream life made up in his mind. We dont know that JW was stewing in anger or even knew what was going on. The fact is: We do not have anything close to enough information to say one of the POI's has "overwhelming" evidence against them.

 

[PurdueMatt]

What is of interest as you note is that the nature of that argument has never been revealed, nor have the people who hit CR been identified.

The argument happened within the 12 minutes that LS and CR were at Smallwood. That is very interesting and tells me that those who hit CR were probably waiting for him (and LS) and already had the motivation to hit him. There probably wasn't a long argument before the first punch was thrown so the person who threw the punches already made up his mind on what he was going to do.

 

[porchpile]

One thing I've been asking myself is: if it WAS a random/stranger abduction and the current POIs had nothing to do with LS' disappearance, how would you expect the POIs to act? Unfortunately, I think they would be acting about the same as they have been so far. If they had all been at a pep rally or at the library or something, you could see them going in front of the cameras the next day and leading the search for Lauren. But they were out drinking and doing drugs all night (and most of the POIs seem firmly ensconced in a culture of drugs/partying), and those reasons alone are sufficient cause to lawyer up, shut your mouth, and go home. No one will dispute that even if their story is true that they (JR in particular) left a small, completely wasted girl twisting in the wind and vulnerable to an abduction/assault.

I live in Bloomington, and I don't believe walking along College Ave at 4:30 AM is particularly dangerous. But for a 90-pound possibly barefoot girl in that sort of condition, I think the danger go up siginificantly. And each day that no new info comes and none of the POIs incriminate each other (in the case of a conspiracy to dispose of a body), the odds go up even more for the stranger abduction theory imo.

 

[wisco23]

The argument happened within the 12 minutes that LS and CR were at Smallwood. That is very interesting and tells me that those who hit CR were probably waiting for him (and LS) and already had the motivation to hit him. There probably wasn't a long argument before the first punch was thrown so the person who threw the punches already made up his mind on what he was going to do.

Perhaps the fight started at Sports?

 

[Gabby66]

How would she get there without being on camera? Clearly she would not be avoiding areas with cameras, and yet there is no video of her after 2:51 am.

I don't know the area well enough to answer this, but in previous threads back, there were people very well-versed who pointed out a very clear path to his house, while avoiding cameras. I remember that there was discussion about how she could have crossed the street immediately after barely rounding that corner, and would have avoided detection on camera.

 

[jjenny]

I don't know the area well enough to answer this, but in previous threads back, there were people very well-versed who pointed out a very clear path to his house, while avoiding cameras. I remember that there was discussion about how she could have crossed the street immediately after barely rounding that corner, and would have avoided detection on camera.

I don't remember this discussion. By the way, why would she be trying to avoid cameras? And from what I gather from reading msm/blogs, the b/f had a roommate, who went to bed at 2:30 am and didn't hear anything.