IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #14

[Blythe]

It's mostly the witness who says she spotted Lauren at 3:38a barely able to stand. Maybe because this is the one witness who actually spoke to me -- I give her details more credence. This idea that you take some coke and that allows you to walk better I dismiss. The idea that she "sobered-up" at any point, to me, makes no sense. This isn't someone who had a bottle of wine with dinner and wanted to wait an hour before driving home. I believe she was getting her high on -- and was going to keep fueling it until she fell down, perhaps literally (sad as it is to say). I don't think she walked up the alley under her own powers, totally. JMO...I understand your position and it may well be right.

She died in the presense of the last to be with her?

 

[TonyGatto]

Tony did you leave town? Are you back in NY working other stories?

I am back in NY...still committed to this...and ready to head back to B-Town when/if nec. And yes, I am working other stories now. Any good tips?

 

[TonyGatto]

She died in the presense of the last to be with her?

Does anybody think she died alone? Someone suggested that she may have had an accident walking to JW's house. If her body is somewhere between Smallwood/5 North and JW's abode -- boy will the BPD look like fools -- but I can rest assured that this is not the case,

 

[Jupiter812]

Would someone please give me a quick rundown on who the people in the picture are from left to right? I looked back through the old threads but could not find where it identified who each photo was.

Thanks!

Click on the photo on the HT Online site for details. http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/

 

[Btown]

I am not an expert! but I did a small amount of research and determined that every cell phone in the united states manufactured after 2005 MUST BE EQUIPED with a gps locator (thanks to 9/11). So the ability is there to track anyone's movements, at least by the Feds.

Where the FBI is assisting in this case I would imagine that they have this information or are working to obtain it. I will post a couple links I found interesting, please feel free to do some research on this yourself. Unless the POI's left their cell phones behind the night of 6-3-11 (highly doubtful) then their every move was captured and retrievable by LE.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8339832_cell-phone-ping-technology.html

http://socialtimes.com/how-to-track-someones-location-via-cell-phone_b11285

http://www.ehow.com/how_7374451_ping-pinpoint-cell-phone.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...gs_to_zero_in_on_fugitive_in_amber_alert.html

Past cell phone movements are attainable this way as well. From what I read "they" can watch current and past movements from "pinging technology". I encourage you to check it out for yourselves. I have been saying this from the beggining of the case.

Assuming the perp/s of this crime is somebody known to LE, then they should be able to follow the "ping" trail and get some answers in this case.

Sorry for the large quote. Just wanted to add one more document to the quoted list.

http://cryptome.org/isp-spy/le-tel-spy.pdf

 

[Stippling]

Observations from afar.
Follow the money. As to retaining high profile attorneys. Retainers can be incremental. Say $25-$50k for an investigation. $100K to an indictment, $150K + to a plea and $300K+ for a murder trial plus expenses. This is a very serious step. It is not something done lightly. It is not chump change for anyone.
If I were Btown's finest, I would be paying very close attention to all POI wireless call data and internet traffic, and pings that morning which I am sure they are.
But what police often fail to do is connect the electronic dots. If someone were dialing home for dollars that morning, they knew they might be in a pickle. They likely would have had to make several calls. That is why I would also look closely at dad and mom's call data records (landline, wireless, work, email, Skype, social networking, and text traffic) especially as it dealt with calls to or from the B'town, Indiana area that day. Providers now retain this traffic for longer periods of time under the Patriot Act. It would still be available if it has not been requested.
Why? Simply looking at the records of one party to a communication leaves a flood gate of options open. I would be looking at serving a comprehensive duces tecum for landline and mobile call data, and ISP traffic for all of dad and/or mom's devices to see if someone might have used a different number to call or text, (like a prepay) or had someone else act as an intermediary and then have dad call back to a preplanned number. Finding out when those crucial calls for money and a lawyer were made could be key in determining absolution.
I also would also check POI banking records for locations and amounts of credit card and or ATM transactions on the day or and days after. I would want to know about fuel purchases, travel, and what if any merchandise was purchased. I would pay particular interest to any transactions which would link to items of disposal, concealment or sanitation. If the POI's were their parents CC's, then those records are fair game too.

 

[Blythe]

Does anybody think she died alone? Someone suggested that she may have had an accident walking to JW's house. If her body is somewhere between Smallwood/5 North and JW's abode -- boy will the BPD look like fools -- but I can rest assured that this is not the case,

Which makes me think that if her friends really believed that she disappeared; they would have searched for her the next day and walked her route continuously.

 

[Jupiter812]

I am back in NY...still committed to this...and ready to head back to B-Town when/if nec. And yes, I am working other stories now. Any good tips?

Well that kinda sucks but given how restrained you were I see why staying may have been futile and hard on the expense account. At least we have great places to eat and hang out.

 

[Blythe]

I am back in NY...still committed to this...and ready to head back to B-Town when/if nec. And yes, I am working other stories now. Any good tips?

How about going to Paul Schreiber for a human interest story on JW. Discover what a service oriented popular honor role lad he is. And follow through with his recent graduation and loss. How is he handling his grief? What does he think happened? How is he coping? What were/are his after graduation plans?

 

[jjenny]

Which makes me think that if her friends really believed that she disappeared; they would have searched for her the next day and walked her route continuously.

Her assumed route would have been 600 steps from where she was supposedly last seen to Smallwood. What would it take? Couple of minutes to walk? So maybe they did.

 

[Azimuth]

Observations from afar.
Follow the money. As to retaining high profile attorneys. Retainers can be incremental. Say $25-$50k for an investigation. $100K to an indictment, $150K + to a plea and $300K+ for a murder trial plus expenses. This is a very serious step. It is not something done lightly. It is not chump change for anyone.
If I were Btown's finest, I would be paying very close attention to all POI wireless call data and internet traffic, and pings that morning which I am sure they are.
But what police often fail to do is connect the electronic dots. If someone were dialing home for dollars that morning, they knew they might be in a pickle. They likely would have had to make several calls. That is why I would also look closely at dad and mom's call data records (landline, wireless, work, email, Skype, social networking, and text traffic) especially as it dealt with calls to or from the B'town, Indiana area that day. Providers now retain this traffic for longer periods of time under the Patriot Act. It would still be available if it has not been requested.
Why? Simply looking at the records of one party to a communication leaves a flood gate of options open. I would be looking at serving a comprehensive duces tecum for landline and mobile call data, and ISP traffic for all of dad and/or mom's devices to see if someone might have used a different number to call or text, (like a prepay) or had someone else act as an intermediary and then have dad call back to a preplanned number. Finding out when those crucial calls for money and a lawyer were made could be key in determining absolution.

I agree 100%; if there is any substantial evidence that will come in the next few weeks, IMO it will be in the form of digital data. I cannot stress enough how important it is that the LE/investigators obtain as much data as they can from the wireless carriers. Many don't know this, but a HUGE chunk of wireless carriers are outsourced to other companies. For example, Verizon doesn't own the tower, it is usually rented from another company (American Tower, for example). They typically do not own the fiber optic lines to/from the cell sites, they usually 'rent' bandwidth from server providers, etc, etc. All of these possibilities MUST be looked into.

Get the ESN #s from the POI, they could do this via the carrier or the POI. Then, the fun begins. You could track the data to hell. Where it pinged, how much data was sent, the signal strength (underground yields much lower, for example), etc, etc. Someone who has good spacial awareness can do a LOT with this data.

This can be done using trilateration (often mistakenly called 'triangulation'.) I trust the investigators know this.

 

[bluehippo22]

Does anybody think she died alone? Someone suggested that she may have had an accident walking to JW's house. If her body is somewhere between Smallwood/5 North and JW's abode -- boy will the BPD look like fools -- but I can rest assured that this is not the case,

From the moment I learned of JW's apartment location, I have favored the idea that LS's could have headed to JW's (if she left 5North per JR). This opens up a lot more space and time for basically anything.

1) LS could have had an accident. There are so many nooks and unused spaces in and around these 1920-30s era houses. Also, some of these rentals are likely empty and haven't been checked.

2) LS could have found a party on the way to JW's and stopped, then something bad happened. During the school year, there are plenty of parties in this area, but probably not as much in early June.

3) Somewhat darker and more secluded route (plus longer) for an abduction and more opportunity for an abduction without a car required. She could have been forced into a house and never left.

4) JW is the bad guy and something bad happened once LS arrived.

 

[jjenny]

Does anybody think she died alone? Someone suggested that she may have had an accident walking to JW's house. If her body is somewhere between Smallwood/5 North and JW's abode -- boy will the BPD look like fools -- but I can rest assured that this is not the case,

Why can you rest assured that is not the case? It is hard to believe, but there have been a couple of cases recently-one of Purdue student found in electrical closet in March (and he went missing in Januray). And despite the searches the body wasn't found until March. So, while unlikely, why would such scenario be impossible with LS?

 

[TonyGatto]

Well that kinda sucks but given how restrained you were I see why staying may have been futile and hard on the expense account. At least we have great places to eat and hang out.

Expense Account = Tony's Wallet

 

[cluciano63]

I agree 100%; if there is any substantial evidence that will come in the next few weeks, IMO it will be in the form of digital data. I cannot stress enough how important it is that the LE/investigators obtain as much data as they can from the wireless carriers. Many don't know this, but a HUGE chunk of wireless carriers are outsourced to other companies. For example, Verizon doesn't own the tower, it is usually rented from another company (American Tower, for example). They typically do not own the fiber optic lines to/from the cell sites, they usually 'rent' bandwidth from server providers, etc, etc. All of these possibilities MUST be looked into.

Get the ESN #s from the POI, they could do this via the carrier or the POI. Then, the fun begins. You could track the data to hell. Where it pinged, how much data was sent, the signal strength (underground yields much lower, for example), etc, etc. Someone who has good spacial awareness can do a LOT with this data.

This can be done using trilateration (often mistakenly called 'triangulation'.) I trust the investigators know this.

They probably do, but maybe you should email your info just in case, what can it hurt...we've found out before in lots of cases that things we assumed LE to have done were not...

 

[bluehippo22]

Where was LS usually spending the night? LS had an apartment on the 5th floor at Smallwood, but was she actually sleeping there?

I think it is possible that LS usually (always?) stayed at JW's. Lots of college girls spend more nights at the long-term boyfriend's. During my junior year of college, one roommate spent every single night at her serious boyfriend's. Her parents certainly did not know that they were essentially wasting rent money.

If LS usually stayed at JW's, this could explain his actions on Friday, June 3. Also, it would explain why HT was not worried and just went to class. When LS did not arrive at JW's it could have been "not making home." LS might not have been spending enough nights at Smallwood for it to be considered "not making it home" when she didn't arrive back there on June 3.

I imagine LE has enough key swipe data to know if LS was routinely sleeping at Smallwood.

 

[mibright]

How long has it been your office? The house across the alley from it was quite the party house 5-7 years ago. :innocent:

There are several houses on this block that can really get going depending on the tenants. Even though it is usually a one year lease the types of people(quiet vs. rowdy) are consistant year-to-year. People are usually fairly constrained to the yards but the noise travels.

Some homeowners were interviewed a few years ago about living in this neighborhood and they said they liked the youthful ambiance despite the drawbacks. Without the students, I would not have a job and our town would lose a lot of life.

 

[jjenny]

Well if the roommate is to be believed, it certainly does not appear LS was staying with the boyfriend during that particular time. The roommate claimed the boyfriend was supposed to come to Smallwood but didn't because he couldn't get in contact with LS.

 

[Azimuth]

Here are the antenna systems located near the area of interest. This is just to give you an idea of how much data potential there is. I will later crunch it down by carrier.

 

[Btown]

Here are the antenna systems located near the area of interest. This is just to give you an idea of how much data potential there is. I will later crunch it down by carrier.

Thanks, that info is also here:
http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=bloomington&state_abr=in

From here:
http://cryptome.org/isp-spy/le-tel-spy.pdf