IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

[Thelonious]

I felt this way also, but then LE came right out and said that the landfill and dumpsters were searched, so I dropped that. So, now I'm thinking more hidden underground or basement/storm shelters/old bomb shelters, who knows.

Did LE confirm they searched the landfill? Did they indicate when they searched it?

 

[Berk13]

I think some people are putting too much emphasis on HT's comment about Lauren going "too far." Awhile back there was a discussion about HT being too critical of Lauren and maybe having more knowledge of what took place. I think it's just her frustration of knowing that if Lauren would have stayed in or at least been in a different state of mind that this wouldn't have happened. I have a history of alcoholism/substance abuse and have had many "close" friends(at least at the time) and a sibling(twin brother) who have taken it "too far" many times which led to severe consequences. I have always had a burning anger and resentment knowing that what happened could have easily been avoided.

I bolded a section of your comment above, and I completely agree that she could have been frustrated. I also know that when a reporter puts a camera and/or microphone in your face, it is easy to get nervous and slightly flustered...and you don't always convey the meaning that you intended. I'm not defending her, but I have been in that situation where I was interviewed about something and then wanted to kick myself later because I felt like I sounded stupid or I didn't answer the question the way I would have if I had a little more time to think about my response. She's young. It's quite possible she got nervous and just blurted out the first thing that came to mind. I'm sure she was afraid about what had happened to Lauren and perhaps she feared the worst.

 

[soyesterday]

I can't rememeber....was DR another roomate of Lauren's and HT? Or did he live in a different apt? Were HT and DR dating? or "hooking up" that night? Is that what some of you mean by together?
Also, people say CR was showing "inapropriate" attention to Lauren that night, but her and JR were alone for over an hour supposedly. What if she was cheating on JW w/ JR? I think JW had to have known something was going on that night w/ Lauren and all these guys. Or when i say something was going on, i even just mean that she was hanging out w/ a bunch of different guys at their apts.
I would think that could put a boyfriend in a jealous rage.
Especially if he went and found her in a "compromising" position, maybe?
I honestly can't think right now if any or which one of these guys might have been "friends" w/ JW or not?
But Lauren was a really pretty, blonde girl in a vunerable state possibly and.....i just don't know....
Did JW see something and get upset? Did he take her out of there? Did he wait for her? Did he pick her up and they fought and things went too far?
If some rumors were true and they were kinda on/off broken up, was he upset that she was "moving on"? Was she upset that night because of her and JW's relationship and took things further than she normally would have?
Where are you Lauren?????

 

[mamamia54]

Did LE confirm they searched the landfill? Did they indicate when they searched it?

06/10/11

Police are expanding the search for Spierer, as well as retracing their steps. Parker confirmed that dumpsters and landfills have been searched and encouraged stores in Spierer's path last Friday morning to give their security tapes to police for analysis.
http://www.thedailygreenburgh.com/neighbors/spierer-case-appear-americas-most-wanted

 

[Pedrosmom]

About LS's roommates:

HT and another roommate said in an early TV interview that they were "always" partying with Lauren, but not that night. Really? Why not? What was different about that night?

HT said Lauren "went too far" this time. How does she know that? HT said she and her friends went to JR's "all the time last year." Could she have been at JR's party earlier in the evening and have seen LS there?

Perhaps HT was also there later, maybe with DR. Maybe they decided to go back to Smallwood and LS wanted to stay at JR's and continue to party.

I have always thought HT's "too far" comment sounded critical of LS. Maybe she was angry at LS for not going home to Smallwood with her.

Maybe the 4:15 call was to DR and HT because, as has been suggested, HT was with DR, and JR knew that.

I often wonder about HT. Seems kinda shady.

 

[Jupiter812]

About LS's roommates:

HT and another roommate said in an early TV interview that they were "always" partying with Lauren, but not that night. Really? Why not? What was different about that night?

I think LS wanted to be with CR that night. They had just met. Maybe HT didn't want to hang out with him, maybe she didn't care for him. She had met him at the race.

Do you know the answers to your questions--or do you have a theory?

 

[Jupiter812]

I posted this link a couple of threads back.
http://www.pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg 1998.pd

Using Hamburg police dogs, tests were conducted with two bodies deceased for less than two hours. The deceased died in hospital and their bodies wrapped in clean blankets before exposure to the carpet squares. One body was in contact with carpet squares for 2 minutes, the other for 10 minutes. In a series of searches using the contaminated squares and control, non-contaminated squares, the dogs had great success detecting the contaminated squares even after 35 days and 65 days respectively. Interesting read!

Let's hope Bloomington PD dogs are that good though something tells me that's not the case.

 

[Missing Budweiser]

I know this was probably covered, and I should know this, but considering that JR and LS's grandparents lived next door to each other in NY, were the two ever involved romantically? I believe "soyesterday" was asking a similar question above. I know JR is from Michigan, but did they know each other as kids before IU? Was it a coincidence that they ended up at the same college?

 

[Carmen101]

I think LS wanted to be with CR that night. They had just met. Maybe HT didn't want to hang out with him, maybe she didn't care for him. She had met him at the race.

Do you know the answers to your questions--or do you have a theory?

I am just trying to wrap my mind around these kids’ statements and actions. Maybe the key to all of this is “between the lines,” so to speak. And, no, unfortunately, I don’t have the answers. I wish I did!

HT, in initial MSM interviews, made a point about what a wonderful guy JW is, and that she and LS had just met CR at the 500 a few days before and she didn't really know him. I think her inference was that she, HT, preferred JW over CR, whom she considered shady.

It has been reported that there were fights at the 500. TonyGatto.com has screen shots of tweets by AB about the fights.

It seems that LS and CR were attracted to each other. Perhaps LS sided with CR at the 500 fights and HT sided with someone else.

BTW, I am a little surprised that HT and LS were at JR's "all the time" freshman year, but they didn't meet CR until this year's 500.

Maybe JR and CR just met this year, but they did get arrested together outside of Smallwood on Halloween, 2010, if memory serves.

Another LS roommate, BW, also stated in an early MSM interview, that JW is a really nice guy. So at least two of the roomies were standing up for JW early on.

BTW, the WIBC radio interview posted earlier said that BW had been talking to the Spierers and was doing what she could from her home in the northeast to help find Lauren. So maybe she is the one friend who has talked to LS's parents.

Also, in an early MSM sound bite, MB said, “She WAS our friend.” (Emphasis mine) Maybe he was just nervous and didn’t get the tense right.

How’s that for a disjointed response?

 

[soyesterday]

I wish i knew if they were broken up or not that night?
Wasn't he trying to get her to "friend" him again in fb not too long ago?
Maybe she WAS falling for CR or hooked up w/ JR.
I wish i knew. Not that i have a right to know, i know.
But i just wonder if JW saw something or found out something he didn't like and reacted.

 

[soyesterday]

I know this was probably covered, and I should know this, but considering that JR and LS's grandparents lived next door to each other in NY, were the two ever involved romantically? I believe "soyesterday" was asking a similar question above. I know JR is from Michigan, but did they know each other as kids before IU? Was it a coincidence that they ended up at the same college?

I'd like to know too if they had a romantic history. (JR and LS)

 

[Darcyline]

I have actually been trying to figure out why JR would try to hide her body instead of just calling the police if that is the current scenario. I know people panic, but I go back and forth on whether a friend just Oding would be cause to hide the body very well, lawyer up, and leave town. Seems like a lot of trouble would be avoided if he had called 9-11 or drove her to the hospital saying hey my friend just came over and collapsed...

So, maybe there were other factors at play-I have thought maybe he was giving her the drugs which would make him responsible OR they could have had sex. They would know if they had sex and that would bring a lot of other potential legal problems for him if he had sex with someone who was so drugged up she was about to OD or in the process of Oding. Both may be factors that would have weighed on his mind, if they happened.

Of course, that is assuming she did Od and assuming JR hid her body both of which may have never happened. For all we know, they really did just watch TV sober and then he watched her walk around that corner.

 

[katydid23]

I have actually been trying to figure out why JR would try to hide her body instead of just calling the police if that is the current scenario. I know people panic, but I go back and forth on whether a friend just Oding would be cause to hide the body very well, lawyer up, and leave town. Seems like a lot of trouble would be avoided if he had called 9-11 or drove her to the hospital saying hey my friend just came over and collapsed...

So, maybe there were other factors at play-I have thought maybe he was giving her the drugs which would make him responsible OR they could have had sex. They would know if they had sex and that would bring a lot of other potential legal problems for him if he had sex with someone who was so drugged up she was about to OD or in the process of Oding. Both may be factors that would have weighed on his mind, if they happened.

Of course, that is assuming she did Od and assuming JR hid her body both of which may have never happened. For all we know, they really did just watch TV sober and then he watched her walk around that corner.

If you add to the above scenario the fact that she had a bad heart---that greatly increases the possibility that she may have OD'ed or had a heart attack. He may not have known about her heart condition, and may have assumed she od"d from something. IDK if she or he did any coke, but rumors are rampant. If she did that was a very dangerous thing for her heart condition. So her friend/roomate who slipped by saying 'she went too far..' was maybe corrrect.

 

[akh]

06/10/11

Police are expanding the search for Spierer, as well as retracing their steps. Parker confirmed that dumpsters and landfills have been searched and encouraged stores in Spierer's path last Friday morning to give their security tapes to police for analysis.
http://www.thedailygreenburgh.com/neighbors/spierer-case-appear-americas-most-wanted

But this leaves open the possibility that dumpsters were not checked before they were picked up. Searching a dumpster that had been picked up a time or two since she was last seen is not going to be very helpful. And I have no idea how police would effectively search a landfill, especially if the search isn't done immediately.

 

[Walker]

In the case that this OD theory were true;

Suppose JR called 911, and took LS to the ER. How would LE prove that JR had given LS any drugs?

Now of course, batches can be chemically "matched," but JR could just remove any possible stash from his apartment.

A possible witness may have been willing to testify that JR gave LS drugs, but if that were the case, wouldn't JR be named a suspect by now?

Would JR trust all the people who may have been present that morning in his apartment while LS was also present, to keep quiet about an improper disposal of her dead body, but not trust those same people to be quiet about where she had gotten the drugs?

 

[Gabby66]

Regarding the comments about bodily fluids....unless they have a cadaver dog make a positive hit (and I'm not sure that B'Ton would have them or maybe brought them in too late), the fluid may prove nothing. I said in an earlier thread that all it would prove is that she vomited or urinated there. Big deal. The boys apparently already confirmed that she was there. So she peed her pants....So she threw up on their carpet.....She was supposedly drunk, so this can easily be "explained". IMO even if LE has already found such evidence, if it's not enough for a conviction, it likely won't mean an arrest. I highly doubt they've even shared such evidence with the boys, if found. They'd more likely ask them (if given the chance), "So tell me exactly what happened while she was there. What did LS do?" (in a less direct way). If they make no mention of her throwing up, that would give LE cause to keep pressing and digging and at least help to narrow in on someone, but I do not believe it would be enough for an arrest. They'd later just say, "Oh yeah, I forgot that she threw up while she was there." There'd be no proof and that alone, would be way too circumstantial IMO. They need much much more than body fluid, given the circumstances, unless they can turn up a body.

 

[Gabby66]

In the case that this OD theory were true;

Suppose JR called 911, and took LS to the ER. How would LE prove that JR had given LS any drugs?

Now of course, batches can be chemically "matched," but JR could just remove any possible stash from his apartment.

A possible witness may have been willing to testify that JR gave LS drugs, but if that were the case, wouldn't JR be named a suspect by now?

Would JR trust all the people who may have been present that morning in his apartment while LS was also present, to keep quiet about an improper disposal of her dead body, but not trust those same people to be quiet about where she had gotten the drugs?

This is a good point. But I do think that there's still a chance that she ODd and JR or someone else disposed of her (though not sure it's my current #1 theory). I think that if this happened, the way that he trusted everyone to keep quiet is b/c whomever helped him dispose the body was/were also someone/people who had a part in giving her the drugs too. If they're at a party at JRs and they're ALL doing drugs, it really doesn't matter if JR bought them. If CR or someone else picked up a pill and handed it to her, he's now a "dealer" too. This might give several people a reason to feel it was less risky to dispose of her than to take her to the hospital.

These are boys. I don't care about their age, they are not grown responsible men with mature life experience. Their brains are not fully mature. They're full of testosterone and undeveloped brains. They're still of an age where impulsiveness often wins. This is why this age group parties (and why they likely will grow out of that stage later). This is why they drive fast and wreckless. This is why they have lots of sex with multiple partners. They often act on impulse. Many times an immature impulse is to "not get caught". It's sad, but it's often true. Now, compound that with the time being 4 AM and add in the likelihood of multiple drugs and alcohol over a duration. I doubt they were thinking too clearly and I think it's quite likely they thought, "Oh, ****, we gotta get her outa here!"

 

[akh]

Are there stairs she could've fallen down at 5 North that could've resulted in a fatal injury?

If you want to assume that she never actually left 5 North as described, and believe an OD situation wouldn't have scared anyone enough to panic and hide the body, then what about a fall and closed head injury? That would open up the possibility of a- push, something happening due to getting away from an unwanted advance, barely able to walk or passing out and falling, or some other double-edged sword adding to the panic of the moment. Now you'd have to worry not only about being one of the ones to have supplied drugs but also being suspected of causing the fatal fall (in one form or another... directly or indirectly).

 

[Pedrosmom]

10 POI's all with different levels of culpability. IMO there was "the incident," that being fatal, that can be blamed (amongst the POI's) on several, i.e., drugs, fall, then there is the "leading up to the incident," that being the partying, supplier/suppliers, and finally, the disposal of the body, which, could very well could entail the witness sighting, the phone call = car ready to go If they all have some level of culpability, they keep their lips shut tight, a brotherly sort of thing to do, if one goes down we all do, sort of pact. No one is more or less culpable than the other and so 10 viscious criminals all sit around waiting for the one to crack, get wasted and say something stupid, cut a deal, while a family waits for their daughter to come home.

It was with waterboarding that we learned of a courier that led us to the compound that held Osama Bin Laden, correct?

 

[docwho3]

While I can see where foul play might easily have happened in
this case, & certainly have nothing against foul play having happened,
I am still awaiting some actual evidence to go on. . . .
But I get bored while waiting so I think of other possibilities too.

Here is one:
I have known of instances where someone knew
that their friend kept a spare key to the car in one of those magnetic
key hider/holder boxes & knew where the spare key box was located.

If a car had been parked nearby that belonged to someone she knew
it might be possible she found the key, unlocked it (or it might have been
unlocked already) and climbed in the
back and fell asleep. Depends on if it was a van or large car or small car
as to how likely it would be for the car owner to have seen or heard
her in the back especially if the car had some messy clothes or
something piled in the back & perhaps the driver played some music
when driving that might have covered the sound of breathing.

If I remember correctly it was said that some students were leaving due
to end of semester. If someone drove to an airport and left a car parked
there with Lauren in it & left then it is possible she had a heart event or
that heat got to her before she could awaken and leave the vehicle.

There are variations of this scenario, some more plausible than others and
some less plausible. Suppose someone drove home and just has not gone
near that vehicle since, choosing to just veg out at home or ride with
parents, friends for the past weeks? It is possible she had a heart event
or that heat got to her before she could awaken and leave the vehicle.

I seem to vaguely remember an airport is also a place that the body of a
missing person was found in a past case or two
(at least I think I remember that having happened-
I would have to do some web searching/file searching to be certain.)
Seemed one might have been suicide but I think the other case might
have been foul play.

ETA:
Some examples of bodies being found in vehicles at airports:
'. . . man was found dead in a van parked at the Albuquerque Sunport . . .'
http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/More-details-released-on-Sunport-body-dr

'. . . The woman's body was discovered late Monday night. While there are
no obvious signs of trauma to her body, authorities do want to know why
she was in the back seat of a vehicle that was parked inside the
Terminal D parking garage . . .'
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7109645

'. . . A body found in a car at Lansing's Capitol Region International airport
had been dead for possibly weeks . . '
http://www.wilx.com/home/headlines/96083574.html
(BBM)

******************
But then we haven't found a body yet. Now that can mean a few
different things:
It has been pretty hot so I would expect if she is not alive that
quite a smell would be wherever the body is & if that body was
where people go near very often the body would have already been
discovered.

So either
1. the body is not where people go very often or
2. it is where lots of other really bad smell already exists regularly or
3. it is contained in some closed space that keeps odors from escaping
such as a chest freezer or other tight enclosure,perhaps a car.

And of course there is still a possibilty Lauren is alive somewhere
no matter how unlikely that might seem to some of us.
I have read too many cases that looked like foul play but which
turned out to be runaway, suicide, or accident to begin to assume
foul play with no more evidence than we currently have
reported in MSM.

There a couple of things reported in this case in MSM that I find
interesting and possibly indicating some sort of foul play
(aside from people clamming up & getting lawyers)
but I am still mulling over the possibility just in case a
foul play outcome does indeed become supported by evidence.

Since we have no real proof that a serious crime of any sort
has happened I think I will try to refrain from theorizing about any POI
unless or until something surfaces to indicate that person
is involved in a crime against the missing person.
Of course if foul play evidence surfaces then I intend to join right in
trying to figure out who did it etc.