IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

[Gabby66]

Then there is MB. Innocent of the crew, he was writing 2 papers. If so, why did he allow LS to linger for what was reported as "about an hour"....so from the last ally video at 2:51 AM, most likely minutes later MB was putting CR to bed, and LS just hung around to about 4:00 AM while MB, who didn't want to party per his report, was writing his paper. What else took place in that hour?

Lastly, I'm intrigued with the Romance. JW and LS relationship, but maybe ended or nearing end per rumors, a possible new romance with CR and LS. Or possibly an old flame/lust relationship from childhood between JR and LS, that could have been one sided and just exposed that night or at the 500. And of course there's the possibility of just a non-relationship lust upon an opportunity, by anyone involved.

I've read rumors that LS tended to wear out her welcome. If that's true, it may explain why she was at MB's for an hour even though he wanted to write his paper. That time could have been spent with her begging him to party, and him begging her to leave. Perhaps JR wasn't interested in partying anymore either, which is why she left there.

I've also considered this (and I honestly do not mean to imply that LS is "trashy" but just that this is the behavior of some college girls).....if she was recently broken up with JW, she could have been on the rebound. CR was her contender until he was put to bed. She then tried flirting with MB who presumably wasn't interested, so she went to flirt with JR. IF she left JR's, perhaps it was b/c she realized he wasn't interested either. I also think that this theory could be debunked with the idea that presumably at least ONE out of three guys would have jumped at her potential offer. (I now feel awful talking about a young girl in this manner but its' something to consider as this happens OFTEN on campuses - it's pretty common behavior.) This theory might explain why LS did leave JR's. She was getting nowhere and perhaps she really did go to turn to JW.

IMO something either happened at JR's or she left there for a purpose other than to go home. If she left, I think it's WAY too coincidental that she would have been abducted right at the corner, before being seen on a camera. However, I think it is possible that she crossed that street, out of camera's view, as others have pointed out the possibility. She could have been going to JW's or someone else (someone whom she knew would party with her). Maybe she never left THAT place instead? My point is that at 4:30 AM, with her presumably drunk or drugged (and we can suspect that if we believe JR told HT that he would watch to see if she stumbled), I'd think she would have rather just curl up on a friend's couch, before making that journey home, if she was truly ready to retire for the night. If she left his house, I don't think "retiring" is what she had in mind - either sex or partying, or both.

 

[imkeylime]

...It sounds IMO, like the fight was over something else...maybe him being in the complex after being banned? Them leaving, without LS even getting shoes, makes me think, he had been kicked out and made to leave. If this is close, I wouldn't necessarily expect the guys to call JW...especially if the guys were some kind of security. If the guys were security, it would explain why LS stayed uninvoled, didn't get her shoes, and then got him out of there....

I've wondered as of late if LS and CR left Kilroy's for Smallwood with the intention of returning to the bar after getting something from her apartment, hence her leaving her shoes/cell there. But then the fight happened and CR got roughed up, which changed their plans. Closing time was less than a half hour away when they left, but perhaps they'd lost sense of time or thought they could make it back for a final round. Or perhaps they were going to meet someone there, and then LS left to meet that person after helping CR to his apartment? It's a long shot, but I do wonder about her leaving her shoes/cell, although she may have just forgotten them ...

 

[Gabby66]

OK some here may want to slap me but I'd like to go back to some questions/issues that I still have regarding the white truck. I understand these can't be answered, just pondering....

1. I'd like to know if LE was shown exactly what equipment was supposedly in the bed of that truck, and if it matched up with the photos.
2. The driver supposedly picked up a co-worker on his way to work. Was that just verified, and assumed to be his alibi? I ask b/c it's entirely possible that he did pick up a co-worker, then together they abducted LS.
3. Did they verify that they each showed up to work within a reasonable time from when the co-worker was picked up? If they claim that they went to breakfast or something straight away, were they confirmed to be on the restaurant's video? I'd just like to know exactly how they were each cleared.

I ask these questions b/c as I was driving around my time this afternoon, running errands, I happened to notice several construction vehicles. Ironically, probably 90% of them were white. Not one of them had equipment in the back with a bed cover partially drawn back. In fact, even trucks that were obviously for construction, that didn't even have any equipment inside, had no bed covers. Typically these are places to avoid getting snow, leaves, dirt, etc. in the back. When doing construction and hauling big items, it's nearly inevitable that will happen. Another thing is that they can tear. The few that I saw with covers, had them rolled up and secured behind the back window of the truck. I started thinking how odd it was to have that equipment in there, potentially moving around the back, up against that cover, knowing that it could have torn it. It just seems to me that they would have removed it or rolled it up.

 

[AbbeyR]

I've read rumors that LS tended to wear out her welcome. If that's true, it may explain why she was at MB's for an hour even though he wanted to write his paper. That time could have been spent with her begging him to party, and him begging her to leave. Perhaps JR wasn't interested in partying anymore either, which is why she left there.

When you say you've "read rumors," are you referring to an earlier post where someone here speculated that this may have been a possibility? (
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6778002&postcount=12"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6778002&postcount=12[/ame]) or something else?
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest MB was trying unsuccessfully to get Lauren to leave. If anything, the evidence I have seen suggests the possibility that she may not have been in any condition to leave on her own and get herself home safely. In this scenario, the idea of 'wearing out one's welcome' seems a little inappropriate.

As does this:

I've also considered this (and I honestly do not mean to imply that LS is "trashy" but just that this is the behavior of some college girls).....if she was recently broken up with JW, she could have been on the rebound. CR was her contender until he was put to bed. She then tried flirting with MB who presumably wasn't interested, so she went to flirt with JR. IF she left JR's, perhaps it was b/c she realized he wasn't interested either....(Snipped for space) If she left his house, I don't think "retiring" is what she had in mind - either sex or partying, or both.

If we're going to create scenarios based on nothing but pure speculation, wouldn't it be equally, if not more, plausible that she could have left because she didn't want to have sex? Or because something made her feel that walking home barefoot at 4 am was safer / better than staying at JR's? Or none of the above?

I know we are exploring many possibilities here, but if this kind of speculation is based on nothing more than what college girls may or may not do, I'm not sure how worthwhile that is. To me, it seems a short step away from blaming the victim

 

[British]

As someone astutely pointed out on another site, if you find yourself with the body of a person who has OD'd, the ideal place to take that body would be her own bed. That way the body is found and nobody else is suspected. In this case that would mean calling a trusted friend in Smallwood to let you in around 4:15 or so. Trouble is, he might be asleep and not answer, leaving you to come up with plan B.

Excellent point and thought. That could explain everything. On the other hand it would have been too risky of a move for the POI who might have made the call.

I have started thinking that maybe the disappearance was not OD-related after all. It is hard to believe that her friends would panic to that point to dispose a body. They could have simply taken her to the ER of a hospital after they cleaned their places from drugs etc.

Although the OD theory is possible, I consider equally likely if not more likely that this was a classic rape/murder scenario under the influence of drugs. Although it is difficult to put the pieces together with the timeline of events that have been made public, maybe the police has other information that they have not disclosed that could point to a different direction.

 

[AbbeyR]

@Tony Gatto:

I'm curious about this answer you gave in an earlier post:

1) Did the 3:38 witness look at the photo of AB? Can she confirm if this is the dark man she said was carrying LS over his shoulder? Since you have his photo posted on your blog, it would seem this to be an obvious question.

I don't know. After I spoke to her, someone got to her, cause she will not longer talk to me.

I was under the impression that the witness was totally unrelated to Lauren and the POI's. Is that correct? I'm wondering why she would not want to talk, even under the condition of anonymity... Any ideas about who may have influenced her, or why?

 

[soyesterday]

I've read rumors that LS tended to wear out her welcome. If that's true, it may explain why she was at MB's for an hour even though he wanted to write his paper. That time could have been spent with her begging him to party, and him begging her to leave. Perhaps JR wasn't interested in partying anymore either, which is why she left there.

I've also considered this (and I honestly do not mean to imply that LS is "trashy" but just that this is the behavior of some college girls).....if she was recently broken up with JW, she could have been on the rebound. CR was her contender until he was put to bed. She then tried flirting with MB who presumably wasn't interested, so she went to flirt with JR. IF she left JR's, perhaps it was b/c she realized he wasn't interested either. I also think that this theory could be debunked with the idea that presumably at least ONE out of three guys would have jumped at her potential offer. (I now feel awful talking about a young girl in this manner but its' something to consider as this happens OFTEN on campuses - it's pretty common behavior.) This theory might explain why LS did leave JR's. She was getting nowhere and perhaps she really did go to turn to JW.

IMO something either happened at JR's or she left there for a purpose other than to go home. If she left, I think it's WAY too coincidental that she would have been abducted right at the corner, before being seen on a camera. However, I think it is possible that she crossed that street, out of camera's view, as others have pointed out the possibility. She could have been going to JW's or someone else (someone whom she knew would party with her). Maybe she never left THAT place instead? My point is that at 4:30 AM, with her presumably drunk or drugged (and we can suspect that if we believe JR told HT that he would watch to see if she stumbled), I'd think she would have rather just curl up on a friend's couch, before making that journey home, if she was truly ready to retire for the night. If she left his house, I don't think "retiring" is what she had in mind - either sex or partying, or both.

That's kinda of the stuff that i was saying before. I mean about being alone w/ all those guys. I admit to not knowing what other girls would be like in that situation, but IF I were alone w/ those guys for so long (especially JR.....who she had known for a while), i could see MYSELF in a situation where i shouldn't be. I'm not at all saying that is what Lauren was trying to do. But girls AND guys can get themselves in vunerable situations that can easily go too far too fast. I blame mine partly on my low self esteem and i like any attention i get from another guy friend. And i'm married too. It's a hard thing to deal with. I've been like this high school. Doesn't say much for me, but i wonder if Lauren found herself in that position just wanting "that kind of attention" from one of the guys. And she was so pretty.....i would imagine that would be hard for a guy to resist, especiallly if they were drinking, etc possibly. If she and JW were having problems, i can see her being upset and trying to lean on one of the guys. I'm not at all calling her trashy or slutty if any of this happened. I'm not judging at all too. People find themselves in these kind of situations lots of times.
I think something could have gone wrong there and JR panicked.
Or like i said before JW could have found out where she had been and confronted her on her way home.
I think someone earlier mentioned that HT probably wasn't at all happy that Lauren was w/ this other guys and not her boyfriend, especially when she seemed to think highly of JW. So MAYBE she called JW to let him know what was up.?????
Just speculating some more.....

 

[docwho3]

. . .Regarding the drug theory, yes that's speculation,
but it's speculated because of rumors and comments from her friends, . . .

Is there a link to MSM article where one of her friends is quoted saying
it was drugs? I have been following this case and have yet to see that.

I think that the 'drug' rumor would have been around in nearly any case
of a female missing college student who had been out partying with
friends before disappearing.
********************************

My whole problem with the current foul play theories is that they are
a house of cards, layer upon layer of speculation, assumptions and
outright guesswork. There is no actual foundation of fact to hold any of it
up at this point. And making it worse, people's names are being bandied
about based on these houses of cards as if they are conspiritors to
a major crime.

I am concerned seeing what appears to be a narrowing of focus,
a tunnel vision, developing where only foul play is considered
and if the object is to find out what really happened then narrowing
focus without evidence to indicate it could be a mistake.
It is early days as cases go.

Either way, I mentioned airport parking as a place to look whether
accident or foul play because it has indeed happened in other cases
and if foul play happened it is one place to either abandon a body
or to leave one temporarily until the searching dies down.

Airport parking is not a theory but is only a place to look to be sure all
places have been searched. It is a possibility, however unlikely it may
seem.

 

[jennyb629]

I have started thinking that maybe the disappearance was not OD-related after all. It is hard to believe that her friends would panic to that point to dispose a body. They could have simply taken her to the ER of a hospital after they cleaned their places from drugs etc.

Although the OD theory is possible, I consider equally likely if not more likely that this was a classic rape/murder scenario under the influence of drugs. Although it is difficult to put the pieces together with the timeline of events that have been made public, maybe the police has other information that they have not disclosed that could point to a different direction.

OR, it could be a combination of those two theories...for example, I tend to think if the OD happened then there was something else that happened as well such as sex (rape or not) that caused the person(s) with LS to panic and cover it up. I agree with you that if she did OD it would be odd/unnecessary to react by hiding her body but it would not be as odd to try to hide her if she had been raped or had even had consensual sex with someone involved (so that there was DNA evidence that the person had inappropriate (inappropriate whether it was rape or not since if she then ODed she would obviously not have been in a position to give legal consent to sex plus she has a boyfriend so that could make the person(s) even more nervous about the situation) contact with her and then ODed. I personally think sex/rape/OD/cover up makes more sense than OD alone or rape/murder.

 

[Darcyline]

I don't think there is really evidence to prove that Lauren was throwing herself at all of these men and they were all saying no. I do think it is a safe assumption that her and CR had something going on and, in my mind, it sort of sucks because I feel like if CR hadn't drank himself unconscious she may have just woken up in his bed the next morning feeling regret, but still being alive. Edit to say I am not blaming CR-just that it is strange how tons of different factors in the universe came together in the precise way that led to Lauren and her family being in this nightmare now. If one little thing had been different anywhere during the night...

I have also not heard that she spent an hour with MB. My understanding of the timeline was that she helped CR into bed and then maybe spoke to MB for a few minutes before leaving for JR's and the bulk of that time was spent at JR's. I don't think any desperate passes were made at MB. Now, as for JR, I have no idea what they would have been doing in that time period or if any of it involved sex or drugs. I am not sure if he has stated exactly how that time passed either-maybe in his official statement?


I think the truck has been cleared. LE states that they checked alibis and were given full access to the truck in question. Plus, the cameras were off so the time doesn't even match up. I trust they wouldn't completely clear the truck if there was any chance that may be her abductor. They haven't even cleared any of the 10+ POIs yet so it is a pretty big statement to discount something entirely, in my opinion.

I am also still lost on the 338 sighting. I haven't really seen LE confirm it, but people talk like it is 100% confirmed so maybe they have? I am just keeping options open until I know for sure. Right now, I have that filed under my maybe, not not fact yet list of information about the case.

 

[ahduke99]

I've been following this on Mr. Gatto's site when it was hot, but it looks like it's turning cold now.

Anyway, I don't think the speculation with JW is warranted at this point because, as far as we know, the security tapes from Smallwood did not show him leaving the apartment all night. If he did leave after the game when his roommate went to sleep, he would've been caught on tape doing so.

So, either his roommate is lying and he never was in his apartment thar night, or he never left his room. From what we know, JW was never caught on camera after he said he went to sleep.

 

[Darcyline]

ahDuke-I thought JW lived somewhere other than Smallwood that did not have security cameras?

 

[soyesterday]

I don't think there is really evidence to prove that Lauren was throwing herself at all of these men and they were all saying no. I do think it is a safe assumption that her and CR had something going on and, in my mind, it sort of sucks because I feel like if CR hadn't drank himself unconscious she may have just woken up in his bed the next morning feeling regret, but still being alive. Edit to say I am not blaming CR-just that it is strange how tons of different factors in the universe came together in the precise way that led to Lauren and her family being in this nightmare now. If one little thing had been different anywhere during the night...

I agree....

 

[Inspector Gidget]

Just saw Mr. Spierer walking in this heat with 2 men at the corner of 8th St. & Washington St., headed North. One had a shirt on that said Team Stark.

Could Team Stark be this group? Stark Excavating Inc in Bloomington, IL is a private company categorized under Road Building Contractors http://www.manta.com/c/mmc11vc/stark-excavating-inc

 

[British]

OR, it could be a combination of those two theories...for example, I tend to think if the OD happened then there was something else that happened as well such as sex (rape or not) that caused the person(s) with LS to panic and cover it up. I agree with you that if she did OD it would be odd/unnecessary to react by hiding her body but it would not be as odd to try to hide her if she had been raped or had even had consensual sex with someone involved (so that there was DNA evidence that the person had inappropriate (inappropriate whether it was rape or not since if she then ODed she would obviously not have been in a position to give legal consent to sex plus she has a boyfriend so that could make the person(s) even more nervous about the situation) contact with her and then ODed. I personally think sex/rape/OD/cover up makes more sense than OD alone or rape/murder.

I completely agree. In that context, I find it highly problematic that one of the POIs claimed "memory loss". To me that is a major red flag and creates major questions on whether that particular POI is hiding something and the memory loss is a matter of convenience.

 

[Pedrosmom]

LE needs to RULE IN that it's most likely something that occurred with her friends, OR RULE IT OUT so that stranger abduction search techniques can take the fore. ASKING businesses to give their videotapes? What about a search warrant so that they MUST and quickly, too??? TOO LITTLE AGGRESSION and aggression is needed. Sorry, just frustrated.

I think they are looking for businesses to check their videos to verify the whereabouts of a certain person or car that traveled to Lauren's last known sighting (the gravel lot) and that they have this person on their video, they just want to know if there was anyone else involved, a car that perhaps transported her/body, when and how the car got there, the person/suspect walking and possible people he/she may have been cohorting with. I'm quite certain that LE knows their man, they just don't have the evidence to press charges without additional info. They would like to see more and that's why they're making the statement that they may not even know what they're looking at may/may not be evidence. I'm thinking they're looking for the getaway/transport car. Which of these 10 POI's had cars at school. Who had one parked in the gravel lot? Seems LE pointing to that gravel lot being the place where she met her demise and/or was taken from the gravel lot to meet her demise.

I can't get that pick up truck out of my head for the life of me and how quickly they dismissed it. Perhaps because they knew their main POI had no connection to it? I've looked at those pics of the bed of the truck and it is creepy but I see someone in there. The mind can, however, play tricks when the mind wants it to.

 

[Pedrosmom]

All of your bolded type seems like a normal night. It is only when we know what happened that you associate suspicion with it. If I told you that I spent a night hanging out with buddies and went to bed at 2:30 you would say OK and think nothing more of it. I wish people would be more honest and just say they think JW is the culprit because he is a jilted boyfriend. There really is no evidence that points to him, except when people create their own stories or associate their emotions with his behavior. This is different than JR where a lot of his story doesnt make sense AND can not be verified.

According to HT, Lauren was to be staying with JW that night. Seeing that she never showed up, I don't think JW would simply go to bed. A phone call to HT would reveal who she was out with - which would make any boyfriend jealous (She was seen at Killroys with CR as well). His girlfriend is out partying with a bunch of guys, seemingly ALL guys, and not where she is supposed to be (with him) and we are supposed to believe he just "went to bed?"

 

[docwho3]

So then, lets look at the possibilities for a moment, including foul play,
without me naming names or pointing fingers at possibly innocent people:

How could she have disappeared?
(More looking at the mechanics of how it could have happened
than who.) Until we can answer how it could have happened without
being on video and without leaving a crime scene behind that we know of
we can't really know where or at who to look as possible perp/s.

If someone killed or abducted Lauren we have to ask how could it have
happened?
It has been pointed out that the chance to do so and remain off camera
was limited.

If it was one of those she was with that night then how did they kill her
without leaving a crime scene behind to be found?
If, by some of those with her, she was taken elsewhere and harmed then
how much time did they have to do the crime? If residences have been
searched then those have been eliminated as crime scenes so they would
have had to have killed her elswhere so where did they take her?
Where was the crime scene? And where did they stash a body on short
notice?

If she died from natural causes or OD then where could they have hidden
a body and how did they avoid their own vehicles from showing up
on the videos that LE have been looking at?

The amount of opportunity for a random abduction seems to have
been very small so where would the random person be taking her
to do the crime?

Let's say she was in that alley and after walking out of sight
either alone or with others she is taken in that short space
before another camera would have picked her up.

Taking it from that point: what happened? What theory/s gets us past
the limitations of video cams that limit where one might go with a victim &
remain unseen and lack of crime scenes where a death
occured and accounts for where the body might be?

Not saying it is impossible but just that any foul play theory must account
for all of those things.

She could have just walked away but even then one must account for
her having been able to avoid being seen on video.

Until we know the possible mechanincs of how she could have
disappeared we may have much trouble getting to the truth of what
happened whether accident, runaway or foul play.

 

[Pedrosmom]

There is also the possibility that the body was stored in an apt until a car could get there the next day. Now we have all sorts of cars coming and going. JW took his roommate to his 8:00 class that morning. Is that something he did often? He also went to HT's class to get a key to see if Lauren was passed out at home. Let's just say the easiest place to hide someone who died of OD is in their own bed. JW's actions from after the game until the time he called her parents need to be looked at real well. Pings, videos, classes, pings from Laurens phone (he picked it up from the bar - when?) As I said before, he reported her "missing" bold is mine.

 

[British]

There is also the possibility that the body was stored in an apt until a car could get there the next day. Now we have all sorts of cars coming and going. JW took his roommate to his 8:00 class that morning. Is that something he did often? He also went to HT's class to get a key to see if Lauren was passed out at home. Let's just say the easiest place to hide someone who died of OD is in their own bed. JW's actions from after the game until the time he called her parents need to be looked at real well. Pings, videos, classes, pings from Laurens phone (he picked it up from the bar - when?) As I said before, he reported her "missing" bold is mine.

Again, the theory about JW's involvement makes no sense. There is absolutely nothing from what is publicly known to suggest any involvement of JW. From everything we know he comes across as a sincerely concerned person who did what everyone in his position should do. He searched for her, tried to find her and also called her parents. I would understand a theory like yours if there was the slightest evidence to implicate him, but there is absolutely nothing that we know. Not only is he obviously innocent, but he is also a victim of the situation in many ways.