IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

[British]

Facts that suggest that perhaps LS is an adult runaway:

1. Whether she had her prescription meds with her was stated to be unclear in a media article. LE could access the prescription and compare it against whatever was found among her belongings very easily. (Link no longer active, but will try to find another).

2. Recent travel. Plus, LS was a frequent traveler.

3. Her known companions that evening do not have serious criminal histories.


4. No body, no blood, no clothing found; that is, at this point in time.

5. In the last SW photo, LS seems to be wearing a large man's watch. Did she feel a need to watch the time carefully?

6. Emotional aspect of last photo suggests a person happily quitting something.

7. What EOA said about the outfit.

8. May have had reason to feel anxiety: CR involved in a conflict etc.

9. Besides the summer course (which was probably only a few credits), she had completed all the work for her sophomore year.

10. Landfills have not been searched: may indicate that LE thinks she is possibly alive.

11. Subjective: I just don't have the feeling that she is dead.

12. An OD usually has a long history of reckless behavior and bad incidents, but her closest associates seem to be in a state of shock.

13. JMO: JR's statement seems to me to be truthful. Since it seems potentially self-incriminating, why would he make such a statement if he did not at least believe it to be true at the time? (Of course, details like the time could be wrong, if he were still under the influence of some substance.)

HOWEVER, lots of info has not been released to the public.

Stranger abduction is certainly also a strong possibility.


And, none of these observations show proof.

You can not be serious.

 

[Darcyline]

I don't understand. Wouldn't you be happy if LS were found alive?

I want Lauren to be alive very, very badly. I don't want it so much that I am going to ignore the fact that it is very likely something bad happened to her and that she may never see her family again or live her life.

 

[elmomom]

I don't understand. Wouldn't you be happy if LS were found alive? Maybe she was just fed up with some private personal issues. As I said before, the phenomenon of the adult run-away is poorly understood.

Might it not be an insult to you-know-where to imply that no young person could even possibly dream of wanting to run away to that place --- even one who had recently visited there by choice --- if you get what I mean?

And we only considered you-know-where as a geographical location.

There are many other geographical locations. We don't really know enough about LS to say (for example) that she is in California, but it's not impossible.

Walker, I would be thrilled if she were found alive, and I have no trouble believing that in many cases it would be a possibility. I just see too much that convinces me otherwise in this case, sadly. But, my post, beginning with two (2) roflmao's was lighthearted and only meant to diffuse tensions, not re-ignite them.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

5. In the last SW photo, LS seems to be wearing a large man's watch. Did she feel a need to watch the time carefully?

I don't know if it was a man's watch, so I can't speak to that. However, if I need to keep my eye on the time, I usually rely on my phone and set multiple alarms, eg. Of course, there are many reasons to watch the time carefully...

 

[guitarmeister]

mamamia54 I totally agree. The quote above is from the Lauren Giddings case. While there are vast differences in the two cases, the investigative techniques and protocols are similar.

It's much easier to bring in the dogs and go through a couple hundred tons of trash than wait months and go through thousands of tons. BPD could have ruled out the possibility Lauren was put in a dumpster from the outset. So very frustrating and I feel horrible for her parents~

​

I have to disaggree with most here on WS who feel that the BPD erred by not searching the landfill. I don't think that search is made unless LE has some lead or tip which leads there. A landfill seach without that lead and totally based on speculation IMO is a bad use of resources. If you remember LE searched a small portion Lake Monroe based on a lead. Some here asked why wasn't the entire lake searched. Those people have little idea of the size of that lake and the resources required to a complete search.

Same applies to the landfills. I would guess that all of the dumpsters were check around downtown by searchers in the first few days. Of course it can be pointed out that the dumpster were emptied Friday. That would take some knowledge and hell of a lot of luck to dispose of a body that way.

Now maybe in other areas on the country, landfills are popular "dumping" grounds. The area outside of Bloomington is actually fairly rural, hilly and wooded. It certainly would have been less risky to find a spot off the beaten track within 20 miles of Bloomington to bury any evidence which would very difficult to find.

So I don't think LE goes out and starts to search the Terre Haute landfill only based on that it is a possible theory by many here where POI's could have disposed a body. IMO one needs more than to start a landfill search. Even in a case this big in Indiana, there will always be some limit on resourses. I'm no fan of BPD handling of this case, but I agree what they done or I guess haven't done in this area.

 

[Darcyline]

Same applies to the landfills. I would guess that all of the dumpsters were check around downtown by searchers in the first few days. Of course it can be pointed out that the dumpster were emptied Friday. That would take some knowledge and hell of a lot of luck to dispose of a body that way.

Respectfully snipped! I have been thinking about this a lot and I am not entirely sure it would take a lot of luck and knowledge. The dumpsters very close to where CR and JR live probably have a regular schedule and were emptied almost immediately. Everyone that I have ever known who lives near a dumpster has known when the trash comes. I could still tell you every day that the dumpsters were emptied at each of my apartments because you can hear it/see it. I don't think it would be a huge stretch to imagine that they may have known the dumpsters would be emptied on Thursday/Friday.
Of course, this leads me to wonder if cadaver dogs specifically were used in the dumpsters?

 

[OldSteve]

I remember a case where dog(s) were used to check the dumpster where a man worked when LE suspected he killed his wife and young child. The dumpster had been emptied some time before it was checked by the dogs, but they still got a hit indicating the missing woman had been in it. It was at that point that LE when through the long and difficult task of going thru the landfill. The landfill search did find his wife, never his child...

I wonder if LE had used dogs to check the dumpsters and not getting a hit is the reason landfills haven't been searched in Lauren's case.

 

[bx2]

I remember a case where dog(s) were used to check the dumpster where a man worked when LE suspected he killed his wife and young child. The dumpster had been emptied some time before it was checked by the dogs, but they still got a hit indicating the missing woman had been in it. It was at that point that LE when through the long and difficult task of going thru the landfill. The landfill search did find his wife, never his child...

I wonder if LE had used dogs to check the dumpsters and not getting a hit is the reason landfills haven't been searched in Lauren's case.

There was a rather astute comment made on TG's site that if LE alerted both the landfill and transfer station early on to perhaps keep a close eye out, this could account for the supposed contradiction of Lt. Parker saying that they had checked dumpsters/landfill with a negative result and Qualters saying BPD has never checked the landfill in 24 years. This would also explain why they haven't felt the need to devote the time and resources to searching what may have already been pre-examined.

Still, some clarity here wouldn't hurt them...

 

[elmomom]

Friends of JW are identified as the people who confronted CR in Smallwood in this MSM report: (video)

http://www.fox59.com/videobeta/?watchId=93c4c94c-7de5-4946-bf5f-b50c491a1f11

and here (BBM):

Rossman was in the fifth floor lobby when he was punched in the face by a friend of Spierer‘s boyfriend Jesse Wolff.

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/list-prevented-prespierer-disappearance-fight/

I know we all have pretty much accepted now that ZO was the main actor, and have heard that he is not considered to be a "friend" of JW, but I am still on the fence about it.

 

[bx2]

Friends of JW are identified as the people who confronted CR in Smallwood in this MSM report: (video)

http://www.fox59.com/videobeta/?watchId=93c4c94c-7de5-4946-bf5f-b50c491a1f11

and here (BBM):

http://indianapublicmedia.org/news/list-prevented-prespierer-disappearance-fight/

I know we all have pretty much accepted now that ZO was the main actor, and have heard that he is not considered to be a "friend" of JW, but I am still on the fence about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Russ McQuaid is the only one reporting the friends of JW part?

edit- thx I see you added a 2nd source, though I'm not clear if that is just a rehashing of the Fox story.

Anyway, when I initially heard this piece of info, my suspicion turned toward JW. I'm curious as to how much other people's suspicion of JW hinges on his friends supposedly being involved in the altercation.

 

[Walker]

You can not be serious.

Why wouldn't I be serious?

 

[elmomom]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Russ McQuaid is the only one reporting the friends of JW part?

The second story quoted above was reported on npr, and McQuaid works for FOX. Granted, one could be paraphrasing the other. But it's more than just the "they were friends of JW" and "no they weren't".
Initially, and sorry to say there are no links left to back this up (but others here remember this as well) the whole altercation was covered up by LE. They said it never happened. Then LS's uncle, or maybe her Dad actually was on FB saying "We never told you about any altercation - it never happened" on the same page of FB where they HAD said it did. If you listen to McQuaid's story the very first thing he says is "I knew about that altercation before, I just couldn't tell you, and now I can".

His friends, not his friends, it happened, no it didn't. Sorry, but there is SOMETHING here that is more than meets the eye. And I wish we knew!!!

 

[elmomom]

Another thing that has my hinky meter running high is that tonight, none of the links I tried worked for the LoHud story that had the infamous quote of HT saying that JR had a guest that night. I searched LoHud for all the LS articles and all the ones except that one are there as far as i can tell. I am no conspiracy theorist but I do wonder if the BPD is asking that some info get retracted or unreported. (this would make me feel like maybe they do know more than I am giving them credit for).
I have had a frustrating time with the media on this case, and now to have articles go missing is really frustrating

eta: I am really having a bad night and BX2 was kind enough to set me straight (see link in his post)

 

[bx2]

The second story quoted above was reported on npr, and McQuaid works for FOX. Granted, one could be paraphrasing the other. But it's more than just the "they were friends of JW" and "no they weren't".
Initially, and sorry to say there are no links left to back this up (but others here remember this as well) the whole altercation was covered up by LE. They said it never happened. Then LS's uncle, or maybe her Dad actually was on FB saying "We never told you about any altercation - it never happened" on the same page of FB where they HAD said it did. If you listen to McQuaid's story the very first thing he says is "I knew about that altercation before, I just couldn't tell you, and now I can".

His friends, not his friends, it happened, no it didn't. Sorry, but there is SOMETHING here that is more than meets the eye. And I wish we knew!!!

Here is the initial story that broke regarding that altercation (and the one that brought about the reaction from the family indicating that they did not give the quote).

 

[bx2]

Another thing that has my hinky meter running high is that tonight, none of the links I tried worked for the LoHud story that had the infamous quote of HT saying that JR had a guest that night. I searched LoHud for all the LS articles and all the ones except that one are there as far as i can tell. I am no conspiracy theorist but I do wonder if the BPD is asking that some info get retracted or unreported. (this would make me feel like maybe they do know more than I am giving them credit for).
I have had a frustrating time with the media on this case, and now to have articles go missing is really frustrating!

Here ya go

 

[elmomom]

One more and I am off to bed...
I have found a place where BPD flat out says that they have spoken to JR. (please don't make me find that again) I have yet to find any place where BPD says that they have spoken to JW. I found one place where they say he is being cooperative. I find another place where they say that some people have left town (and he had at that point) but that BPD feels they would come back for questions. And then sometime later Mrs S starts being very pointed about friends not coming forward.
I know, I know it is SO much easier to think "JR" but is there any evidence from anywhere that it isn't JW that hasn't spoken to them?

 

[hoosierleigh]

I've read a lot of interesting things in this thread. There are a lot of unknown relationships. You've got a lot of drug use. You've got a missing girl. How are these all connected?

You've got a group of kids that reputedly, and according to their FB pages, use drugs on the regular. Where are they getting them?

- ZO, RUMORED to deal, and supposedly at one point, was involved in a DEA raid
- JR, RUMORED to have had issues at the dorms dealing cocaine/heroin
- DR, RUMORED to have had issues at the dorms dealing cocaine/heroin

Are they connected? Do they have the same source? Is one of the 3 a source for the others? Are they competitive?

Then you have JR and CR, who appear to be friends, since they were caught trying to break into Smallwood together...an incident which put CR on the ban list. (Funny, JR is never mentioned to be on that same list, despite being involved.)

You have an altercation between ZO (And AB? Other friends? Who knows?) and CR that is RUMORED to have started at Kilroy's. Continued to Smallwood, resulting in the punch and CR's removal. And according to a statement from Rossman's lawyer...also continued at 5 North. (I tend to think this is true but hasn't been confirmed/denied by BPD because they are suppressing it for some reason we don't know or understand.) Most drunken spats I know of tend to be over when someone leaves or is removed from the area. This one didn't. Why? (I don't think this is materially relevant to LS's disappearance but is still probably relevant to the events of that night leading to it.)

Also, if CR is wasted on Xanax and alcohol like is suspected, is the statement of amnesia just a PR move or is he hiding something? Is MB covering up something that happened at their townhouse prior to going to JRs?

You've got JR, who on top of his reputed dealing, is RUMORED to be a bit of a social outcast amongst his fraternity brothers. Fraternity brothers that include JW. He's also rumored to be the ringleader of many after-hours parties - parties where he is providing the "party supplies." It's probably a good way to get popular on campus, especially for a guy who's kind of on the outside when it comes to his fraternity brothers. Point being - he likely has people at his house at 4:00. Not just LS. What's keeping these people quiet? Does BPD know who they are?

Then you have JW. RUMORED to be possessive and controlling. Appeared to be on the outs with his girlfriend of a couple years. Apparently very linked in with the East Coast crowd. I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if someone saw LS with CR, flirting, at Kilroy's, and immediately texted him that. How infuriating would that be to a "loyal boyfriend" - especially if he knew that not only did his girl hang out with CR at the 500 (believe me, this crowd is connected, I wouldn't doubt that he knew), but she's also cozying up to him at Kilroy's? Especially on a night that she was supposed to meet up with him? And the story about going to bed at 2:30 is not a solid alibi - it's so easy to head out after your roommates are passed out - happened at my apt often. It's also not unusual to have one of your drunken friends knock on your window to let them in to crash, if the walk is too far. I could see LS potentially knocking, and him stepping outside. She was not far from his house. Btown blocks are small.

Then you've got the ZO/AB bit. They're located on LS's way home. If JR was out of "supplies", would LS stop by? Does she know them? Has she ever bought from them?

If you're ZO/AB, and you know that JR was the "last to see LS" from the MSM, would YOU speak up if she stopped by your place? Is there even a way to stop by without being on camera? I'm not sure. (BTW, I think this is a slim to none possibility or someone would have brought it up earlier...)

I find the stranger abduction possibility to be so slim. LS has just a couple of blocks to walk home. College Ave is kind of hilly - it's not like you can spot someone stumbling ahead at 10th Street when you're driving 30+ mph south on College at 17th for example. You would have to spot her quickly, decide in a split-second you wanted to pick her up, slam on your brakes, and then grab her. While this could happen, it seems unlikely.

Just my random thoughts and questions...am interested if anyone has more answers!

 

[AbbeyR]

The second story quoted above was reported on npr, and McQuaid works for FOX. Granted, one could be paraphrasing the other. But it's more than just the "they were friends of JW" and "no they weren't".
Initially, and sorry to say there are no links left to back this up (but others here remember this as well) the whole altercation was covered up by LE. They said it never happened. Then LS's uncle, or maybe her Dad actually was on FB saying "We never told you about any altercation - it never happened" on the same page of FB where they HAD said it did. If you listen to McQuaid's story the very first thing he says is "I knew about that altercation before, I just couldn't tell you, and now I can".

His friends, not his friends, it happened, no it didn't. Sorry, but there is SOMETHING here that is more than meets the eye. And I wish we knew!!!

Yes, that was weird. Also worth remembering: While this was happening, JW's friends were the ones insisting that there had been a fight at Smallwood and were arguing with people who were posting the 'corrections' (on FB). So the information that some of JW's friends were involved came straight from them.

 

[bessie]

One more and I am off to bed...
I have found a place where BPD flat out says that they have spoken to JR. (please don't make me find that again) I have yet to find any place where BPD says that they have spoken to JW. I found one place where they say he is being cooperative. I find another place where they say that some people have left town (and he had at that point) but that BPD feels they would come back for questions. And then sometime later Mrs S starts being very pointed about friends not coming forward.
I know, I know it is SO much easier to think "JR" but is there any evidence from anywhere that it isn't JW that hasn't spoken to them?

Police have no suspects in the disappearance of missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer, but said today that her long time boyfriend is one of 10 persons of interest.



"We continue to speak with him. He's cooperative," said Bloomington Police Lt. Bill Parker at a press conference.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/lauren-spierer-search-boyfriend-person-interest/story?id=13809364

 

[Tr.]

Why wouldn't I be serious?

Here is fresh article about LS and other topics such as runaway adults:

http://www.indystar.com/article/201...tention?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

The article points out that most missing runaway adults are located within hours and true enough don't want to be found by family...yet LE is able to find most of them.
I Seriously doubt that BPD would go to the expense of searching as they have if there were any indication that LS were missing of her own accord.
To assume otherwise is to presume knowledge beyond the investigation.

Or do you believe that LS outwitted the FBI?