IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

[MHamby]

I think we have all just reached a certain point in this case that normally happens when a missing person has gone unfound for this long a period of time.

In recent history, the Aruba case comes to mind. After a month or two, I still remember all of the focus going against the family, and in particular the mother. I'm not saying that will be the case here, but it just goes to show you how little, as the public, we know.

Heck, it goes as far back as 'The Missing Three'. The Springfield, MO case. And that one is still going on today with some outlandish (but still feasible) theories.

Unfortunately, we only have about 1% of the information that LE does. And our intelligent and intellectual minds try to take us on multiple journeys with a lot of 'what ifs' and 'could haves'.

While this is healthy and a must to keep most of us sane, I find myself saying one thing over and over again. In my head, everyone is a POI still until LE tells me otherwise. Unfortunately in this crazy world that we live in, some people don't even need a motive to commit some of the heinous crimes that have happened. For all we know, a psychopathic stranger could have been driving by at that particular time of the morning and might not have been able to help himself or push down in urges. Very disturbing, and not very likely. But possible.

All we have is speculation at this point and I, respectfully of course, consider everyone involved to be a POI just based off the fact that we truly do not know what they know at this point.

Sorry for the essay, just felt like everyone was starting to get 'disparaged and desperate' lately. Keep up the hopes and keep on thinking. Hope LE has a trump card they are waiting to pull once the actual kidnapper/murderer/lier/coward makes a mistake.

 

[TonyGatto]

No problemo. I'm glad you brought it up. If it's true, it's very telling of ZO's attitude! We know that AB made stupid and uncaring comment about so-and-so looking for LS with a flashlight and adderall. ZO and AB are quite a team.

Oh, and I can no longer find on Tony Gatto's site the page about AB's comment "Is this supposed to be funny?" Many of you know what I'm referring to. Whazup with that?

I think the comment "Is this supposed to be funny"? Came from me. I tweeted that in reference to the AB Tweet aobut LS, flashlight, adderall.

 

[Frogzilla]

I think we have all just reached a certain point in this case that normally happens when a missing person has gone unfound for this long a period of time.

In recent history, the Aruba case comes to mind. After a month or two, I still remember all of the focus going against the family, and in particular the mother. I'm not saying that will be the case here, but it just goes to show you how little, as the public, we know.

Heck, it goes as far back as 'The Missing Three'. The Springfield, MO case. And that one is still going on today with some outlandish (but still feasible) theories.

Unfortunately, we only have about 1% of the information that LE does. And our intelligent and intellectual minds try to take us on multiple journeys with a lot of 'what ifs' and 'could haves'.

While this is healthy and a must to keep most of us sane, I find myself saying one thing over and over again. In my head, everyone is a POI still until LE tells me otherwise. Unfortunately in this crazy world that we live in, some people don't even need a motive to commit some of the heinous crimes that have happened. For all we know, a psychopathic stranger could have been driving by at that particular time of the morning and might not have been able to help himself or push down in urges. Very disturbing, and not very likely. But possible.

All we have is speculation at this point and I, respectfully of course, consider everyone involved to be a POI just based off the fact that we truly do not know what they know at this point.

Sorry for the essay, just felt like everyone was starting to get 'disparaged and desperate' lately. Keep up the hopes and keep on thinking. Hope LE has a trump card they are waiting to pull once the actual kidnapper/murderer/lier/coward makes a mistake.

:goodpost:
Yes, everyone should be a POI unless they are officially cleared by LE, but that will not happen until an eventual arrest is made. I totally agree that motive for a crime is sometimes random. That is why I prefer to look at each POI and ask myself, not only why they could be innocent, but why they could be guilty. To make a blanket statement that someone is innocent without even trying to see why they could be guilty will get us nowhere.

 

[cspring]

MHamby....i agree! Very very good post. Couldnt of put it any better

 

[eqh]

She just repeated what JR said. That's not a big deal. She believed his story. How does that make her an important POI? There is no factual basis for all these strong criticisms against her. Just an interview in which she pretty much said she is friends with JR and she believed his story. She was the roomate of LS and it is only natural that she spoke to the media. I really dont get it.

Yes.

Had HT shut her yap and never talked to the media, every other post on here would be "OMG what is the roommate hiding??"

 

[Frogzilla]

Yes.

Had HT shut her yap and never talked to the media, every other post on here would be "OMG what is the roommate hiding??"

HT was not the only roommate of LS. The other roommates made one TV appearance and kept it very simple. HT on the other hand, did not just say she is my friend and I miss her, she put a spin on every detail that she could. HT really is the bridge between these different group of friends, so maybe she felt compelled to give her version of events and also the version of events given to her by these friends who hung out with different groups of people. Maybe she was naive and thought she was helping, but her comments have an odd feel to it, like she is pushing some type of agenda. One example is during a TV interview, she is asked if she is concerned that some of her friends will not talk to her about LS, she says it is not concerning, but later in the same reply she says it was probably a random person who took LS. So people that may know what happened to LS won't talk to her, but she would still rather think a boogeyman took LS.

 

[Gabby66]

Going back to the theory that she Od'd at a DD's place.....

If there was any way for JW to know she had gone there (to the DD's place), this might explain why he was immediately alarmed the next morning, and begin to make very quick assumptions that she was missing. I've always questioned why he would make what seems to be an overly quick decision to call police and LS's mother, upon what appears to be only a left-behind cell and shoes, and her not being in her bed. She could have spent the night with a friend. It's been mentioned that they slept late, so at noon, just b/c she wasn't in her bed - she could have been out retrieving the phone. Previously, I've felt that this made him look guilty. However, this was really the only thing that I could come up with, that pointed to his guilt (aside from the theory that he could have been jealous and acted upon that, being the BF - but that's just speculation and not anything driven by his behavior.) Now, I'm beginning to think that there was more of a reason that he acted so quickly. I think we should try to pick this apart b/c perhaps he knows more than he's indicating. Rumor has it that he too was involved in drugs. If so, he likely knows these players and may be very afraid of them.

So....perhaps there was something said (and overheard, then relayed to JW) at Smallwood. Maybe there was yelling at CR about the drugs he'd given LS. The rumor is that her friends asked her to stay home, but she left with CR. Perhaps her friends overheard her saying that she wanted to get more coke. We've also heard rumors that there was another altercation "that morning" at 5 North. I haven't found any information that defines "that morning". It could mean that morning before she went missing, or later that morning after she went missing. I am assuming it to mean the latter, and if so, it could be that JW went over there, yelling at them for letting her leave. They could have told him that she wanted to party and he could have just made the assumption that she had gone to ZO's (or somewhere else). From there, he learns that her phone is missing, then she isn't in her bed. Given the description of her from the previous night that he was surely given, he may have just put 2 and 2 together to equal that she was missing. Perhaps it was intuition, based on his belief that she'd go to ZO's place if she still wanted to party. Perhaps she'd done this before - and maybe even with JW. Perhaps JW was fearful of what might have happened and rather than confront ZO (as he may have done with CR/JR), he just called police.

 

[Frogzilla]

Going back to the theory that she Od'd at a DD's place.....

If there was any way for JW to know she had gone there (to the DD's place), this might explain why he was immediately alarmed the next morning, and begin to make very quick assumptions that she was missing. I've always questioned why he would make what seems to be an overly quick decision to call police and LS's mother, upon what appears to be only a left-behind cell and shoes, and her not being in her bed. She could have spent the night with a friend. It's been mentioned that they slept late, so at noon, just b/c she wasn't in her bed - she could have been out retrieving the phone. Previously, I've felt that this made him look guilty. However, this was really the only thing that I could come up with, that pointed to his guilt (aside from the theory that he could have been jealous and acted upon that, being the BF - but that's just speculation and not anything driven by his behavior.) Now, I'm beginning to think that there was more of a reason that he acted so quickly. I think we should try to pick this apart b/c perhaps he knows more than he's indicating. Rumor has it that he too was involved in drugs. If so, he likely knows these players and may be very afraid of them.

So....perhaps there was something said (and overheard, then relayed to JW) at Smallwood. Maybe there was yelling at CR about the drugs he'd given LS. The rumor is that her friends asked her to stay home, but she left with CR. Perhaps her friends overheard her saying that she wanted to get more coke. We've also heard rumors that there was another altercation "that morning" at 5 North. I haven't found any information that defines "that morning". It could mean that morning before she went missing, or later that morning after she went missing. I am assuming it to mean the latter, and if so, it could be that JW went over there, yelling at them for letting her leave. They could have told him that she wanted to party and he could have just made the assumption that she had gone to ZO's (or somewhere else). From there, he learns that her phone is missing, then she isn't in her bed. Given the description of her from the previous night that he was surely given, he may have just put 2 and 2 together to equal that she was missing. Perhaps it was intuition, based on his belief that she'd go to ZO's place if she still wanted to party. Perhaps she'd done this before - and maybe even with JW. Perhaps JW was fearful of what might have happened and rather than confront ZO (as he may have done with CR/JR), he just called police.

I have been trying to piece this sequence of events together for awhile now. I have went on and on about how I don't think all the people LS spent time with that night were contacted before a MP report was filed.
I don't think we have enough info to really piece together the order of everything JW did that morning/afternoon. Did he recieve a text back from the bar on LS phone saying that she left it there? Or was JW alerted to the events of the night at smallwood and went there first. I have no idea how we could tell that. We do know that JW needed to meet with HT to enter LS apartment, so if he went to smallwood first there was nobody at LS apartment at that time. So when JW started looking for LS, it is probably safe to say he could not reach LS or any of her roomates (while they were still at their apartment).
Now again, if JW heard a rumor that LS and CR wanted to score drugs after 230AM, wouldn't it make sense for JW to seek out CR to see what happened? I find it hard to believe that when CR is confronted he doesn't say I passed out, but my roommate MB may know where she went next. Then MB contacts JR and so on.
The one thing I can think of that may have made JW and HT file the MP report is if people who were at the bar were saying things to them like, she was foaming at the mouth, that may raise the level of concern, but still, is that enough to file a MP report before even knowing half of the story? Either way, it is JW who elevates the level of concern for LS. LS roommates apparently did not feel like anything was out of the ordinary as they went on with their day.

 

[Cuoco7]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.
Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.
"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"
Malone, who hadn't seen her, said he knows Rossman and roommate Mike Beth because they played in his Fantasy Football League and would sometimes grill together.

I've posted this before and no one thought much of it, but I think it's telling in a way. CR is inquiring the next MORNING. What does this say? He already knew in the morning that she was missing so it would seem that they all contacted one another to look for her. So perhaps they had all talked and then when no one could locate her they went to PD. I'm thinking there had to be some contact because why would CR be looking for her in the morning?

FYI.... The date of feb 4 is obviously wrong.

Thoughts or info about this scenario?

 

[WhitneyLea]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm





I've posted this before and no one thought much of it, but I think it's telling in a way. CR is inquiring the next MORNING. What does this say? He already knew in the morning that she was missing so it would seem that they all contacted one another to look for her. So perhaps they had all talked and then when no one could locate her they went to PD. I'm thinking there had to be some contact because why would CR be looking for her in the morning?

FYI.... The date of feb 4 is obviously wrong.

Thoughts or info about this scenario?

This has always bugged me too. If CR passed out when he got home, then Lauren went to see JR ... then why would CR be outside looking for her the next morning?? Did he have any reason not to assume that she made it home the previous night? Because at that point, no one knew she was missing yet, right? IIRC, even Lauren's roommate HT thought Lauren was asleep in bed until JW called her trying to track Lauren down.

The only scenario I can think of is if CR woke up the next day with a foggy memory, and roommate MB wasn't home to tell him that Lauren had gone to see neighbor JR after CR passed out. Maybe CR had a vague recollection of walking back to his place with Lauren and thought maybe she had passed out on his couch or something, or was just being a concerned friend and trying to determine where she ended up since he didn't remember her leaving his place. It still seems weird though.

 

[Chris007]

This has always bugged me too. If CR passed out when he got home, then Lauren went to see JR ... then why would CR be outside looking for her the next morning?? Did he have any reason not to assume that she made it home the previous night? Because at that point, no one knew she was missing yet, right? IIRC, even Lauren's roommate HT thought Lauren was asleep in bed until JW called her trying to track Lauren down.

The only scenario I can think of is if CR woke up the next day with a foggy memory, and roommate MB wasn't home to tell him that Lauren had gone to see neighbor JR after CR passed out. Maybe CR had a vague recollection of walking back to his place with Lauren and thought maybe she had passed out on his couch or something, or was just being a concerned friend and trying to determine where she ended up since he didn't remember her leaving his place. It still seems weird though.

I thought he might know because JW had already been to his apartment to confront him about being with LS that night. I'm sure others will have more of a memory than I do.

 

[bx2]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm





I've posted this before and no one thought much of it, but I think it's telling in a way. CR is inquiring the next MORNING. What does this say? He already knew in the morning that she was missing so it would seem that they all contacted one another to look for her. So perhaps they had all talked and then when no one could locate her they went to PD. I'm thinking there had to be some contact because why would CR be looking for her in the morning?

FYI.... The date of feb 4 is obviously wrong.

Thoughts or info about this scenario?

Just my take on this, but I always assumed the date was meant to be June 4th and the "next morning" part was misconstrued since she technically went missing on June 3rd. Wouldn't be that out of the question for CR to be asking around on Saturday.

 

[Frogzilla]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm





I've posted this before and no one thought much of it, but I think it's telling in a way. CR is inquiring the next MORNING. What does this say? He already knew in the morning that she was missing so it would seem that they all contacted one another to look for her. So perhaps they had all talked and then when no one could locate her they went to PD. I'm thinking there had to be some contact because why would CR be looking for her in the morning?

FYI.... The date of feb 4 is obviously wrong.

Thoughts or info about this scenario?

We know JR is the last person to see LS, so for CR to be involved in LS missing, he would of had to reinserted himself into the events of the night after he passed out. Also, if you had murdered somebody the night or two nights previous, are you going to be asking people on the street if they had seen someone matching the description of the person who you possibly killed?

 

[British]

We know JR is the last person to see LS, so for CR to be involved in LS missing, he would of had to reinserted himself into the events of the night after he passed out. Also, if you had murdered somebody the night or two nights previous, are you going to be asking people on the street if they had seen someone matching the description of the person who you possibly killed?

No. We dont know if JR was the last person to see her. All we know is that JR said that he was the last person to see her at 4.30 AM. That does not exclude the possibility that more than one POIs might have been involved in a "cover-up" in a case of OD. I always found particularly troubling the claim of "memory loss" for the late night events by another key POI in the case.

 

[Darcyline]

I think the theory with CR being involved is that he didn't reinsert himself, but never left. Like, went along with LS or was not passed out when whatever happened happened wherever it happened.
The amnesia story=one less person having to keep a story straight.

For some reason, I still believe his story in that I do think that LS probably left him and MB to go to JR's or the Drug Dealer's and that he was probably so drugged up he may not remember everything. I guess it seems simpler to keep less hands in the pot-it seems easier for 2-3 people to dispose of a body and keep stories straight as opposed to 5-6 depending on how many POI's you throw into the mix.

 

[Frogzilla]

No. We dont know if JR was the last person to see her. All we know is that JR said that he was the last person to see her at 4.30 AM. That does not exclude the possibility that more than one POIs might have been involved in a "cover-up" in a case of OD. I always found particularly troubling the claim of "memory loss" for the late night events by another key POI in the case.

LOL okay, unless JR killed LS, then you are right, JR was not the last person to see LS. Can we agree that JR is the last known person to see LS, or are we going to open this up for debate?
Also, in regard to CR involvement, you eluded to the idea it makes sense if CR is involved, then it is a massive cover-up by several POI. I haven't seen many scenarios that put CR in a position to harm LS, other than his generic claim at memory loss. For all we know, that is a ploy his lawyer concocted. CR gave DNA and took polygraph test soon after LS went missing, I don't know what else the guy could do, as oppose to other POI.

 

[British]

LOL okay, unless JR killed LS, then you are right, JR was not the last person to see LS. Can we agree that JR is the last known person to see LS, or are we going to open this up for debate?
Also, in regard to CR involvement, you eluded to the idea it makes sense if CR is involved, then it is a massive cover-up by several POI. I haven't seen many scenarios that put CR in a position to harm LS, other than his generic claim at memory loss. For all we know, that is a ploy his lawyer concocted. CR gave DNA and took polygraph test soon after LS went missing, I don't know what else the guy could do, as oppose to other POI.

Thats true. We just dont know the results of the polygraph. Do we? I think he may well not be involved, BUT this "memory loss" business is a major red flag IMO. Clearly the last POI to see her has told a story that I find extremely hard to believe (LS walking out at 4.30 AM heavily drugged, without shoes, without phone, and without keys to enter her apartment). But that does not exclude the possibility that the "memory loss" of the other POI also involves a cover-up of an OD.

On the other hand, if CR passed the polygraph test administered by the police, then I would absolutely believe his story. We simply dont know.

 

[Frogzilla]

Thats true. We just dont know the results of the polygraph. Do we? I think he may well not be involved, BUT this "memory loss" business is a major red flag IMO. Clearly the last POI to see her has told a story that I find extremely hard to believe (LS walking out at 4.30 AM heavily drugged, without shoes, without phone, and without keys to enter her apartment). But that does not exclude the possibility that the "memory loss" of the other POI also involves a cover-up of an OD.

On the other hand, if CR passed the polygraph test administered by the police, then I would absolutely believe his story. We simply dont know.

Honestly, my polygraph could show no deception when I tell you the sky is made up of red and white swirls and looks like candy canes. I put almost no faith in polygraph test results, but I will say the willingness to take one administered by LE says as much, if not more than the actual results, especially if done in a timely manner. As i said, the memory loss could be an addition concocted by CR lawyer, so if he did take a polygraph, you couldn't be sure of deception when somebody is responding to questions of events that they are assumed to not be fully aware of, or have fragmented memories of.

 

[jennyb629]

Just curious...so, in Northsider's scenario where LS ends up ODing at a DD's place, how does her losing her purse/key thing (presumably holding any $$ she had with her) figure in? I mean if she was going from JRs to the DDs wouldn't she think that she would need $? And hadn't she already lost her purse/keys by then (since AA found them around 3am)? I guess some DDs who are familiar with their clients probably give them drugs and get payment later but it seems like at the point that she was supposedly heading to the dds, it would at least occur to her that she did not have any $ with her to make a transaction.

Any thoughts from northsider or anyone else about how the loss of her purse fits into the scenario about going from JRs to the dds and oding?

Thanks in advance.

 

[annmarie62]

LOL okay, unless JR killed LS, then you are right, JR was not the last person to see LS. Can we agree that JR is the last known person to see LS, or are we going to open this up for debate?
Also, in regard to CR involvement, you eluded to the idea it makes sense if CR is involved, then it is a massive cover-up by several POI. I haven't seen many scenarios that put CR in a position to harm LS, other than his generic claim at memory loss. For all we know, that is a ploy his lawyer concocted. CR gave DNA and took polygraph test soon after LS went missing, I don't know what else the guy could do, as oppose to other POI.

ITA that lawyers probably have something to do with this "memory loss" situation. I'm sure that's why the "main suspect" left campus the next day> DADDY made him leave, per atty. advice. It does look suspicious, but it's also smart. Look at the Duke lacrosse team rape fiasco. Those kids parents hired attys, pronto, and finally they were acquitted. The boy's parents in this case knew that if he stayed on campus, he would say something, and even if that something were perfectly innocent/truthful, words are often misconstrued. He was removed to ensure that he kept his mouth shut, imo.