IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #18

[bx2]

Link: http://www.lohud.com/article/201107...on-help-friend-get-home?odyssey=tab|topnews|t
ext|Frontpage



Does this sarcastic strawman argument from an anonymous source constitute "news"?

Their personal descriptors aside, I would say it does. We had not previously heard anything beyond the altercation given by police. This gives us a first hand, albeit, anonymous account that CR and LS left Smallwood together by way of the elevator. Her demeanor is also characterized and clarified to be in a bit worse off state than originally stated by Salzmann. Thrown in at the end almost briskly is "CR and JR [my edit] have given DNA samples to investigators."

 

[Walker]

I don't know if I believe that exact account, but I don't really think she walked CR home just because she was worried about him and wanted to tuck him in as has been reported pretty commonly.

Under the circumstances, LS was probably worried about him.

The "tucking him in" is a strawman.

A strawman means when instead of disagreeing with a position using facts and logic, a gross exaggeration of that position is presented. Debunking the gross exaggeration is (of course) easy.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

That account gives further credence to the talk that LS was seriously messed up by 2:30-40. I don't find it inconsistent with the idea that she and CR made it back to his place, but it does put in context the condition she was in upon arrival there and all events afterwards.

Again, it suggests that the most likely thing to have happened to her related to her seriously-impaired condition, whether that is an overdose (and/or heart attack related to her heart condition) or some sort of sexual violence.

 

[Walker]

That account gives further credence to the talk that LS was seriously messed up by 2:30-40. I don't find it inconsistent with the idea that she and CR made it back to his place, but it does put in context the condition she was in upon arrival there and all events afterwards.

LS probably was stoned, but some people stumble out of elevators even when they are sober. We don't know exactly how intoxicated she was, or whether the effect had worn off 2 hours later.

 

[Darcyline]

Under the circumstances, LS was probably worried about him.

The "tucking him in" is a strawman.

A strawman means when instead of disagreeing with a position using facts and logic, a gross exaggeration of that position is presented. Debunking the gross exaggeration is (of course) easy.

A lot of places literally reported that she tucked him in so I am hoping you mean the gross exaggeration was on their part and not mine?

 

[Jupiter812]

What is this, the last few days, smear LS campaign? Or are people just getting restless for info so they're going for the only unprotected, unrepresented person: the victim.

I wonder if the person in the LOHUD article is the same group that talked to Northsider recently. Coincidence or part of an effort? And just a little while ago a poster comments on LS's proclivities.

Hmmm. Interesting.

 

[Jupiter812]

A lot of places literally reported that she tucked him in so I am hoping you mean the gross exaggeration was on their part and not mine?

I've never read that. I've only read that MB put him to bed.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

A lot of places literally reported that she tucked him in so I am hoping you mean the gross exaggeration was on their part and not mine?

I believe the report was that she "helped" MB put him to bed. That seems inconsistent with her reported condition, but it may be simply a euphemism (perhaps to cover for that condition), or she may have sobered up somewhat.

 

[TonyGatto]

Here is a different account of the happenings in smallwood that fateful night.

Lauren Spierer appeared 'in no condition' to help friend get home, source says
http://www.jconline.com/article/201...ource-says?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAG

"As for this idea that she was Florence Nightingale and taking him back because she was concerned, she wasn't in any condition to take care of herself, let alone another human being," said the source, one of scores of people who have seen the evidence but who was only willing to comment anonymously. "She couldn't even stand up on her own. I have difficulty with this individual (Rossman) saying he can't remember anything when he's the guy who picked her up and took her out of the building."
"She comes stumbling out of the elevator, trips several times toward the corner of the lobby, where she comes to rest in the corner of the lobby, falls to her knees and leans against the wall for support until a male companion comes to her aid, gathers her under his arm and escorts out of the front of the building," the source said. "That whole sequence lasts less than 60 seconds."

Well this corroborates the basic facts set forth by my two sources...getting thrown out of Kilroy's talking drugs and 3:38a Lauren sighting where she falls down and hits her head.
http://www.tonygatto.com

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I wonder if the person in the LOHUD article is the same group that talked to Northsider recently. Coincidence or part of an effort? And just a little while ago a poster comments on LS's proclivities.

I have been reading about her drug use since near the beginning. I have yet to read a report of her being involved with other guys that I credit.

 

[TonyGatto]

What is this, the last few days, smear LS campaign? Or are people just getting restless for info so they're going for the only unprotected, unrepresented person: the victim.

I wonder if the person in the LOHUD article is the same group that talked to Northsider recently. Coincidence or part of an effort? And just a little while ago a poster comments on LS's proclivities.

Hmmm. Interesting.

Is it a smear against LS for people to report honestly what they saw? I don't think so.

 

[Darcyline]

Ok, so her and MB helped him into bed. I am still not entirely convinced she left with him that night solely to help him into bed. In a realistic scenario for me, other goals were probably on her mind. But, who knows? Maybe she did just leave Smallwood to put him to bed because she was worried.

 

[Carmen101]

Even if Lauren was fooling around on JW, or was in the process of breaking off with him...unless he was involved in whatever happened to her, I can't see a way that it would be relevant. Now the drug part, if true, could be very relevant.

Also, I get the feeling that Lauren's parents would not let expense stand in the way of any searching that they felt should be done, JMO...

Well, if she were in the process of breaking up with him, that might be a reason why he would not try to meet up with her that night after his texts went unanswered.

Does anyone remember the source of the unfriending on Facebook info?

I agree on Lauren's parents sparing no expense, including a landfill search.

 

[Darcyline]

I have been reading about her drug use since near the beginning. I have yet to read a report of her being involved with other guys that I credit.

I have heard rumors of other guy(s) but only in the context of them being broken up. Like, there were rumors that they were broken up or on a break and she was flirting with CR because of that. Some of the reports I am reading now make Lauren sound like she was sleeping with a different guy every night while her faithful boyfriend sat at home pining for her. Makes me not want to leave Websleuths since most of the discussion here is pretty reasonable.

 

[Jupiter812]

Is it a smear against LS for people to report honestly what they saw? I don't think so.

The other part of my point: Can you say with certainty that this is not a coordinated "campaign"? Just asking...

 

[Carmen101]

What is this, the last few days, smear LS campaign? Or are people just getting restless for info so they're going for the only unprotected, unrepresented person: the victim.

I wonder if the person in the LOHUD article is the same group that talked to Northsider recently. Coincidence or part of an effort? And just a little while ago a poster comments on LS's proclivities.

Hmmm. Interesting.

I have had that information for a long time and did not post it until now because it has not been reported and is definitely hearsay. However, after rumors started being posted, I thought it was ok.

Maybe LS was completely loyal to JW, but if the relationship was going strong, why did she unfriend him on Facebook?

Again, I am not trying to smear LS. However, talk of her drug and alcohol use has been reported in MSM as well as discussed on this board.

 

[Carmen101]

The other part of my point: Can you say with certainty that this is not a coordinated "campaign"? Just asking...

It isn't on my part. Actually, I am glad we are getting a few more details as we continue to try to analyze this case.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Ok, so her and MB helped him into bed. I am still not entirely convinced she left with him that night solely to help him into bed. In a realistic scenario for me, other goals were probably on her mind. But, who knows? Maybe she did just leave Smallwood to put him to bed because she was worried.

Given the report of her condition, I imagine that she was in or close to a 'blacked out' state, with no conscious intent other than to 'party'.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Maybe LS was completely loyal to JW, but if the relationship was going strong, why did she unfriend him on Facebook?.

Says who?

 

[Carmen101]

I have heard rumors of other guy(s) but only in the context of them being broken up. Like, there were rumors that they were broken up or on a break and she was flirting with CR because of that. Some of the reports I am reading now make Lauren sound like she was sleeping with a different guy every night while her faithful boyfriend sat at home pining for her. Makes me not want to leave Websleuths since most of the discussion here is pretty reasonable.

I did not mean to imply that she was sleeping with a different guy every other night. But I do believe that their relationship might not have been as rock solid recently as it perhaps was in the past.