IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[Ros]

And, I wouldn't know all this except for I went to Bloomington myself on August 23, 2011. Two men and a blond were in the alley near sundown. The blond got ahead of us in the alley and a middle-eastern man came running after her. When he saw 2 men, he ran to a getaway car and sped away.
He came from 10th and College Apartments. So, I bet it's an abduction. But, it's not a random abduction because you really had to know that block in order to avoid the cameras.

Jacobite, Was this incident reported to BPD? I can't find it on the Bloomington Crime Map for 23 Aug 2011.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/crime/map/bloomington/

 

[thesaint]

But, people are free to believe lies about Lauren if they please. It makes me angry how this crime victim was smeared.

What lies are people "believing" about Lauren?

How do you know for certain they are lies?

thanks.

 

[thesaint]

Yes, Tony Gatto did say this after Karen claimed to be a bar manager and said Lauren was alone laying her head on the bar at sports speaking of coke. But, that was a lie. And, Karen was put up to this by her boyfriend. It was all a lie.

How do you know all these people are lying?

They are all liars out to get Lauren?

Since you, apparently, have access to the unvarnished truth, please fill in the details of Lauren's night that night. Thanks.

 

[thesaint]

None of Lauren's friends say she did coke. Not even her IU friends. The POI's certainly did not
say that.

And you know everything all of her IU friends and the POI's have said how?

Reports last Summer had MB claiming that Lauren urged MB to "party" with her after CR crashed. Links to SPECULATION based on early chatter surrounding Lauren's disappearance:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6960977#post6960977"]IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #20 - Page 18 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7023119#post7023119"]IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22 - Page 7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[thesaint]

I
Karen broke up with her boyfriend and told what happened. None of Lauren's friends say she did coke. Not even her IU friends. The POI's certainly did not
say that.

I found numerous research papers that indicated Lauren's staggering may have been caused by her physical handicap. Accounts say there was no alcohol at Rosenbaum's and she had only a few drinks at Sports.

Bo never said Lauren died from cocaine. He said the IU drug culture was involved. So, Perhaps someone connected with dealing also set her up to go missing. Doesn't mean she did coke.

In this post and others, you seem obsessed with disconnecting Lauren from cocaine.
In your rush to connect Lauren stumbling about (which could be the result of myriad different things, you non sequitur her stumbling to the possibility that it's related to her medical condition--sure, anything's possible.

Stumbling could also be due to an inner ear infection, intoxication (downers such as alcohol and disassociatives).

In your rush to convince no one that you know what you're talking about, you completely missed an opportunity to further disassociate Lauren's behavior that night from cocaine:

individuals on cocaine and cocaine alone do NOT stumble. Individuals on cocaine and alcohol do not stumble about. A good tell that someone is beaking in the bathroom at a bar or club--they are pounding hard liquor/drinking beer after beer and yet still sound lucid and have relatively full motor control.

Coked up bargoers often do the Bolivian Marching Powder "March" from the toilets back to their seat at the bar. Upright, moving swiftly, grinning and appearing happy, lucid and in control....a lot like Lauren in this picture of her on her way out to Kilroy's that night:

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu282/bessie_06/lsleavingsmallwood.jpg

that picture was likely snapped around 1:30-1:45 AM? And approx ninety minutes or less later, Lauren is witnessed barely able to negotiate her own way out of an elevator or walk without assistance?

I find it very believable that Lauren drank very little that night. My guess is she had--as witnesses report her listing at Kilroy's--induldged in cocaine and xanax, washed down with some light drinking.

That she went from a happy, marching upright cocaine user on her way to Kilroy's to a stumbling mess in less time than a Will Ferrell movie suggests that she encountered something else--something stronger than alcohol or even xanax, in the interim.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6960953#post6960953"]IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #20 - Page 18 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Jupiter812]

The Mystery Man scenario makes the plot much less complex which of course makes a lot of sense. Now, we must determine how Lauren could have walked from 11th Street down to 10th and been missed by the detective viewing the video data. Perhaps she didn't take the direct route. Perhaps a camera wasn't working. Maybe he missed her somehow. They had to look at hours of video from multiple cameras. Perhaps we should find someone to take another look at this. This witness of the Mystery Man claims to have provided a police sketch of him. This appears to be a creditable witness account.

But it is still not clear if Karen was the bar mgr imposter at Sports only or at both Sports and 10th and College. ?

And why did her bf ask her to lie? Is he a POI or friend of POI?

Did this cause their break-up?

 

[Ros]

But it is still not clear if Karen was the bar mgr imposter at Sports only or at both Sports and 10th and College. ?

And why did her bf ask her to lie? Is he a POI or friend of POI?

Did this cause their break-up?

Here's a link to TG's original story about the bar manager. Note that there are two stories: one about Lauren at the bar saying that she was high on coke and Xanax which came from "a person close to the case" and 2) the story from the bar manager who saw a dark-skinned man with a woman who looked like Lauren at 10th and College at 3:38.

Tony never says that "the person close to the case" and the "bar manager" are the same person. So is "Karen" both of these persons or one of these persons?

http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

 

[imkeylime]

I would think a Manager at a local bar should be credible witness. Alot of responsibility comes along with managing a bar. Was she on foot or in a car?
akh could be on to something. maybe LS dropped by JR to party. he is all out of party favors so she offers to run back to SW and pick some up from her room or from DR. he tells her she too buzzed but she insists and says she will be right back, she never returns and he callsl DR to find out if she is coming back. he then calls it a night and goes to bed.
meanwhile LS is staggering all over the place and runs into mysteryman. maybe MM is not a predator, just someone trying to help but then she od's and he panics and hides her body rather than calling 911. shouldn't MM be on video somewhere if he is walking college ave?
maybe jr has been advised not to change his original story since she hasnt been found. if he changed his story he would look even guiltier since he was the last eyewitness.

I've thought before that the 4:15 am call to DR might be JR asking if she arrived at SW vs. the story he tells. The white truck went by at about that time, too, and the driver assumedly saw nothing, supporting the earlier time/MM noted by the bar manager. (Maybe?)

 

[Jupiter812]

Here's a link to TG's original story about the bar manager. Note that there are two stories: one about Lauren at the bar saying that she was high on coke and Xanax which came from "a person close to the case" and 2) the story from the bar manager who saw a dark-skinned man with a woman who looked like Lauren at 10th and College at 3:38.

Tony never says that "the person close to the case" and the "bar manager" are the same person. So is "Karen" both of these persons or one of these persons?

http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...-was-thrown-out-of-bar-alone-not-with-friend/

Thanks, I'm quite familiar with that and most everything we're rehashing here, not that anything's wrong with that, especially with no new info. It sounds like Karen and her lie is limited to Sports.

If Jacobite would only clarify or say he doesn't know...

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Personally, I do not believe a single thing said by someone who:
- Says multiple things that are demonstrably untrue (regarding cameras at 5NT, Long QT syndrome, what LS's friends have said about her drug use, and perhaps where ZO/AB live)
- Claims to have done independent, journalistic investigation of the facts, and then names (in a fashion that cannot be verified) a source in the case
- Risibly relates a wildly unbelievable tale of personal experience involving a phantom blonde girl and "middle-eastern men" near where LS disappeared. (That there are robberies or other suspect behavior on a large college campus in an economically diverse area lends such a story no further credibility imo)
- Embellishes the facts we know with details that have appeared nowhere else, and are not independently verifiable
- Uses phrases like "very reliable source" to attempt to augment their credibility
- Overall appears to be attempting to point us away from the POI (and any drug use) just as LS's family seeks to tighten the screws on one or more of them

 

[Jacobite]

Jacobites are known for loving a game of Chess but I must admit that this one has made a few wrong moves on the board. First, there were new research papers published that indeed did indicate that Lauren's medical condition may have been quite the factor in her staggering on camera that night. But, sloppy me, I attempt to do a report on these medical reports instead of providing links to the appropriate reports, Then, I find there are medical experts on the board who point out my wrong move and it'a foot in mouth for me. Second, I out Karen for spreading lies to the media about Lauren and Coke. But, I do a sloppy read of Tony Gatto and it is again revealed that I have now made another wrong move by not knowing that Karen is only one of the 2 witnesses. Now, I may be making another wrong move by assuming Mystery Man is a bad guy. Perhaps, he is only kind and helpful and just loves blondes. In Lauren's case he was merely a human taxi taking her where she wanted to go. In my case, he sees a blonde and only wants to party with her. Then, he discovers she is out with other men. Broken hearted, the Mystery Man gets into a car and speeds away from the scene to go have a good cry. i can't afford many more wrong moves. I'm now seeking info. And, when I go to Kilroys in Indiana next week I need to find a nearby public restroom since Phish-heads will be packing the loo at Sports while packing their beaks. Next move, anyone?

 

[Jupiter812]

Jacobites are known for loving a game of Chess but I must admit that this one has made a few wrong moves on the board. First, there were new research papers published that indeed did indicate that Lauren's medical condition may have been quite the factor in her staggering on camera that night. But, sloppy me, I attempt to do a report on these medical reports instead of providing links to the appropriate reports, Then, I find there are medical experts on the board who point out my wrong move and it'a foot in mouth for me. Second, I out Karen for spreading lies to the media about Lauren and Coke. But, I do a sloppy read of Tony Gatto and it is again revealed that I have now made another wrong move by not knowing that Karen is only one of the 2 witnesses. Now, I may be making another wrong move by assuming Mystery Man is a bad guy. Perhaps, he is only kind and helpful and just loves blondes. In Lauren's case he was merely a human taxi taking her where she wanted to go. In my case, he sees a blonde and only wants to party with her. Then, he discovers she is out with other men. Broken hearted, the Mystery Man gets into a car and speeds away from the scene to go have a good cry. i can't afford many more wrong moves. I'm now seeking info. And, when I go to Kilroys in Indiana next week I need to find a nearby public restroom since Phish-heads will be packing the loo at Sports while packing their beaks. Next move, anyone?

I think Analytical Examiner beat your move with a checkmate.

 

[Jacobite]

Nope, a pawn needed to be moved. And, I am no POI's pawn.

 

[imkeylime]

Jacobites are known for loving a game of Chess but I must admit that this one has made a few wrong moves on the board. First, there were new research papers published that indeed did indicate that Lauren's medical condition may have been quite the factor in her staggering on camera that night. But, sloppy me, I attempt to do a report on these medical reports instead of providing links to the appropriate reports, Then, I find there are medical experts on the board who point out my wrong move and it'a foot in mouth for me. Second, I out Karen for spreading lies to the media about Lauren and Coke. But, I do a sloppy read of Tony Gatto and it is again revealed that I have now made another wrong move by not knowing that Karen is only one of the 2 witnesses. Now, I may be making another wrong move by assuming Mystery Man is a bad guy. Perhaps, he is only kind and helpful and just loves blondes. In Lauren's case he was merely a human taxi taking her where she wanted to go. In my case, he sees a blonde and only wants to party with her. Then, he discovers she is out with other men. Broken hearted, the Mystery Man gets into a car and speeds away from the scene to go have a good cry. i can't afford many more wrong moves. I'm now seeking info. And, when I go to Kilroys in Indiana next week I need to find a nearby public restroom since Phish-heads will be packing the loo at Sports while packing their beaks. Next move, anyone?

I'm confused (which I'm willing to take blame for since I've been reading on and off while tending a puppy) ... but didn't you originally say you thought MM was the same man you saw in August doing something nefarious (i.e., with another blonde)? ("Tony Gatto's mystery man. I just read his description of this guy. Very creepy. This fits the description of the guy we saw exactly....") If so, I don't follow the leap to him being a human taxi who wants to party with LS ...

 

[nitram]

Personally, I do not believe a single thing said by someone who:
- Says multiple things that are demonstrably untrue (regarding cameras at 5NT, Long QT syndrome, what LS's friends have said about her drug use, and perhaps where ZO/AB live)

It was my impression that all of her friends have consistently reported that she did not use drugs. Not being snide but did I miss something?

 

[Jacobite]

I didn't say Lauren wanted to party and she was not into Phish according to friends. And, I am not clearing Mystery Man at all and the guy Tony Gatto mentioned is likely who we met and seriously I doubt his intentions were good.
I an not naming or clearing any POI. I do though believe the person who committed this crime is a sociopath. Only a sociopath, unable to feel guilt would be capable of inflicting so much pain on Lauren's family without coming clean. I am appalled that a wonderful person like Lauren is a crime victim and her name was smeared with lies when she could not defend herself.

 

[Jacobite]

It was my impression that all of her friends have consistently reported that she did not use drugs. Not being snide but did I miss something?

You are correct. The ones spreading the drug lie seem to know a lot about recreational drug use themselves.

 

[Ros]

Some of the drug rumors came from a person who posted on the PT board claiming that he knew (but was not friends with) four guys who had roomed with one of the PsOI. This person initially jumped to the conclusion that they were probably all on drugs, but quickly retreated when he realized that he was spreading rumors based on speculation not fact. He then posted, in bold print, that he had no idea whether or not she was on anything that night and that he did not know her personally. But by that time the damage had been done.

Later, someone who claimed to be JW's roommate came in with more drug use allegations and said that LS had been to rehab for alcohol but not drugs. He seemed to think that she had used coke and Xanax (based on rumors?) but he also said that such use was out of character for her.

I still wonder about her leaving her stuff behind at the bar. Lauren had been charged with public intoxication and illegal consumption in September of 2010 and the case was handled via pre-trial diversion. I am not sure what would have happened if she had a second offense less than a year later. What if she hurriedly left Kilroy's because she and CR recognized someone such as a police officer or probation officer entering the bar? That would account for a hasty exit. The same would be true if anyone else that they wanted to avoid entered the bar.

 

[Jacobite]

Jacobites are known for loving a game of Chess but I must admit that this one has made a few wrong moves on the board. First, there were new research papers published that indeed did indicate that Lauren's medical condition may have been quite the factor in her staggering on camera that night. But, sloppy me, I attempt to do a report on these medical reports instead of providing links to the appropriate reports, Then, I find there are medical experts on the board who point out my wrong move and it'a foot in mouth for me. Second, I out Karen for spreading lies to the media about Lauren and Coke. But, I do a sloppy read of Tony Gatto and it is again revealed that I have now made another wrong move by not knowing that Karen is only one of the 2 witnesses. Now, I may be making another wrong move by assuming Mystery Man is a bad guy. Perhaps, he is only kind and helpful and just loves blondes. In Lauren's case he was merely a human taxi taking her where she wanted to go. In my case, he sees a blonde and only wants to party with her. Then, he discovers she is out with other men. Broken hearted, the Mystery Man gets into a car and speeds away from the scene to go have a good cry. i can't afford many more wrong moves. I'm now seeking info. And, when I go to Kilroys in Indiana next week I need to find a nearby public restroom since Phish-heads will be packing the loo at Sports while packing their beaks. Next move, anyone?

Understand, with this post, I am making fun of myself and mocking the blokes who mocked me on the previous page. And, really Phish-heads are not coke-heads either. Coke-heads are more likely to be gangsta wannabes. Not the type whom LS would have associated with.

 

[elmomom]

Jacobite

I have but one question for you.
All your posts seem rushed, and/or urgent.

Why now, why here, what has brought you here, now?...