IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #26

[cluciano63]

JMO, I really believe LE when they say they ruled out the white truck and its occupants. I think if they had not checked out, we would know about it by now.

 

[imkeylime]

... I have a very strong suspicion that Lauren never left CR or JR's on foot, I believe that she was either deceased or in critical condition when she left there. I say with near certainty that Lauren knew who disposed of her (possibly killed her). Though I do not lean towards an out and out murder. Given that I for myself have all but ruled out random abduction, which rules out a stranger. I have never heard or seen anything in this case which would lead me to believe that anyone would have had the motive to kill Lauren. Infact when Robert Spierer basiclly said he felt comfortable saying that JW wasn't involved, I ruled out this as a murder. For me ruling out the jealous/rage boyfriend snaps and kills his girlfriend senario pretty much wrapped this up for me as an accidental/OD/medical ailmet death.
I do believe that if Lauren was intoxicated on substances, legal, otherwise or both and something did occur such as an OD or alergic reaction etc. I do see these POI's as the type of people who would or possibly could have disposed of her in an effort of self-preservation. Observing their actions since Lauren has disappeared, I would say that at-least 3 of the POI's have behaved suspiciously. So if things are the way I perceive them to be in this case, then the magnifying glass of the PI's and BPD should be able to be focused on a very small group of people....

Clipped by me. Based on this scenario, perhaps LS could have left in critical condition but alive by car. Maybe the intent was to get her health care, but then she passed en route and the driver panicked. But there should been evidence of LS in said car, and the driver's cell phone should have indeed pinged. I can't imagine LE hasn't looked hard and fast at the cars, cells, etc., of the POIs. Also, a car should have shown up on camera, unless it lead to a back way out of town. There was, for example, some discussion of the gravel lot. The only way I can see this holding up is if the driver was JR's possible guest or someone else who just happened to be around.

There's been a lot of talk about long QT syndrome in the last few days. The one thing that strikes me most about it is that emotional upset can trigger an attack. The altercation at SW involving CR could lead to emotional upset, IMO ... LS either cared enough or was angry enough to want to accompany CR out of SW. It doesn't appear that many of her friends knew about her long QT syndrome, so an attack of that might have been misidentified as an OD.

I have also tossed around the idea as of late that LS left 5 North only to turn around and return and was intercepted on her way back or at 5 North. She wouldn't show up on cameras in that case. Perhaps she started for home but realized she couldn't make it or something?

 

[imkeylime]

Would anyone oppose of myself posting a picture of the white truck? I still can't let it go. I had one that I had worked on with just the colors etc. last summer. I check back here once in awhile and saw that elmorejames had made the same comment about not wanting to let this truck thing go quite yet. If we are totally over it, I won't post it. Why did we not any details of it's owner?

I don't think it's wrong to revisit material. I've followed a MI case (the Oakland County Child Killer) for much of my life (it happened when I was a kid). The breaks came in the past two years from evidence supplied by people outside LE. The first was from a polygrapher; the second was this (http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ase/-/1719314/8610940/-/wy6o18/-/index.html):

"Last summer, the Defenders reported that investigators from Wayne County took a road trip to northern Michigan. They were looking for physical evidence and criminal files involving two suspects in the case: Christopher Busch and James Vincent Gunnels. Gunnels told police he was abused by Busch at a family cottage in Montmorency County. However, when investigators arrived at the cottage, they found it had been torn down and the 35-year-old files were destroyed to make room for newer cases.

"A Local 4 viewer saw the Defenders' reports and called with a surprise: They had saved a copy of the files, just in case."

By saving a copy of the files, that person provided a possible link between crimes in Oakland and Montmorency Counties, where the primary suspect (deceased) may have taken the victims (perhaps 6 now). This is a huge development.

I don't know what to think about the white truck, but that doesn't matter. In the spirit of investigation, it's good to keep an open mind!

 

[OldSteve]

respectfully snipped for brevity:

I haven't posted in a while, been here since day one of this nightmare. I have come back periodically and there wasn't a whole lot going on, so I have lurked lol. Anyway I figured since there really isn't any new info being posted that I would mention a couple things that we have talked about previously.
For me ruling out the jealous/rage boyfriend snaps and kills his girlfriend senario pretty much wrapped this up for me as an accidental/OD/medical ailmet death.

Interesting thoughts and analysis your entire post. There's one scenario I'm curious about - I've seen a number of a cases where a girl under the influence is in the company of a group of males ( a group that does not include a serious boyfriend) and she winds up being sexually victimized - either by the group, or later by one of the members returns to find her.

For me it's statistically which is the more likely - her med problem happening that night, or what I mentioned.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Clipped by me. Based on this scenario, perhaps LS could have left in critical condition but alive by car. Maybe the intent was to get her health care, but then she passed en route and the driver panicked. But there should been evidence of LS in said car, and the driver's cell phone should have indeed pinged. I can't imagine LE hasn't looked hard and fast at the cars, cells, etc., of the POIs. Also, a car should have shown up on camera, unless it lead to a back way out of town. There was, for example, some discussion of the gravel lot. The only way I can see this holding up is if the driver was JR's possible guest or someone else who just happened to be around.

There's been a lot of talk about long QT syndrome in the last few days. The one thing that strikes me most about it is that emotional upset can trigger an attack. The altercation at SW involving CR could lead to emotional upset, IMO ... LS either cared enough or was angry enough to want to accompany CR out of SW. It doesn't appear that many of her friends knew about her long QT syndrome, so an attack of that might have been misidentified as an OD.

I have also tossed around the idea as of late that LS left 5 North only to turn around and return and was intercepted on her way back or at 5 North. She wouldn't show up on cameras in that case. Perhaps she started for home but realized she couldn't make it or something?

Really good post; you mentioned some stuff that's been in the back of my mind. I think it was a couple weeks ago that I suggested (in response to another post, I forget who wrote it) that maybe something had happened between 5N and home to make Lauren voluntarily change her path. I have also been wondering since very early in this case...what if Lauren did die because of her heart problem, but the people she was with - not knowing that she HAD the problem - assumed that they were somehow responsible and covered it up? But then I wonder why, now that it has been made public that she had this condition, wouldn't they come forward?

 

[jjenny]

JMO, I really believe LE when they say they ruled out the white truck and its occupants. I think if they had not checked out, we would know about it by now.

Yes, they clearly ruled the truck out. They know exactly who the driver is, and who the passenger is. I have no doubt whatsoever the truck is ruled out.

 

[imkeylime]

Really good post; you mentioned some stuff that's been in the back of my mind. I think it was a couple weeks ago that I suggested (in response to another post, I forget who wrote it) that maybe something had happened between 5N and home to make Lauren voluntarily change her path. I have also been wondering since very early in this case...what if Lauren did die because of her heart problem, but the people she was with - not knowing that she HAD the problem - assumed that they were somehow responsible and covered it up? But then I wonder why, now that it has been made public that she had this condition, wouldn't they come forward?

The thing is, if they came forward and said they'd disposed of her body thinking she'd OD'd but then realized she hadn't, they'd still look terrible ... and if they did such a thing in the first place, they obviously cared more about themselves than LS (and would thus care more about themselves than her family). The other thing that comes to mind, related to her changing her path, is that maybe she did encounter someone scary and tried to retreat to JR's but was followed. If JR watched her leave (???), I doubt he watched long enough to see her double back, if she indeed did. I also wonder who else lives in 5 North ... if you're intoxicated, apartment doors can start to look the same.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

The thing is, if they came forward and said they'd disposed of her body thinking she'd OD'd but then realized she hadn't, they'd still look terrible ... and if they did such a thing in the first place, they obviously cared more about themselves than LS (and would thus care more about themselves than her family). The other thing that comes to mind, related to her changing her path, is that maybe she did encounter someone scary and tried to retreat to JR's but was followed. If JR watched her leave (???), I doubt he watched long enough to see her double back, if she indeed did. I also wonder who else lives in 5 North ... if you're intoxicated, apartment doors can start to look the same.

Yeah, good point.

 

[cluciano63]

The thing that stands out to me is that if her friends are all completely innocent and at a loss as to what happened to Lauren, why there should have been any hesitation on anyone's part to completely and immediately copperate in every way possible. I don't think it would ever have occurred to me that a lawyer should be called, or that LE might find out I had done drugs the night before, if a friend was missing and clearly in danger or worse. I might regret it later, of course, if I ended up with drug charges, but I wouldn't have been worried about that at the time.

If these are just "party people" and not professional drug dealers, addicts, or users, it seems to be they would not have been so concerned about themselves, if innoncent. Again JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO And I know I am being naive to think that people think of others before themselves...oh well.

 

[bessie]

Really good post; you mentioned some stuff that's been in the back of my mind. I think it was a couple weeks ago that I suggested (in response to another post, I forget who wrote it) that maybe something had happened between 5N and home to make Lauren voluntarily change her path. I have also been wondering since very early in this case...what if Lauren did die because of her heart problem, but the people she was with - not knowing that she HAD the problem - assumed that they were somehow responsible and covered it up? But then I wonder why, now that it has been made public that she had this condition, wouldn't they come forward?

Because they would have to answer for her missing body, and that could lead to serious charges, like hiding a corpse, removal of a corpse, etc.

 

[Jupiter812]

Because they would have to answer for her missing body, and that could lead to serious charges, like hiding a corpse, removal of a corpse, etc.

But choosing to not come forward is the more difficult alternative. Their spirit will always have Lauren's shadow lurking about. This is among the worst kind of baggage a person can drag through their life--and they will. They will never be free. Whereas fulfilling the charges has a finite end and a chance to start anew.

If they can't come forward for Lauren and her loved ones, maybe they can do it for themselves.

 

[Ros]

I think it was a couple weeks ago that I suggested (in response to another post, I forget who wrote it) that maybe something had happened between 5N and home to make Lauren voluntarily change her path.

I had wondered if she might have entered one of the "Tenth and College" apartment complexes but someone told me that those buildings (Apartments and Village) had video cameras. Is that correct?

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I had wondered if she might have entered one of the "Tenth and College" apartment complexes but someone told me that those buildings (Apartments and Village) had video cameras. Is that correct?

Oh my, that is a good question. :waitasec: I don't know offhand, but we can find the answer either in the first post of the thread (the one with all the pictures) or in one of the earliest threads. One of the members went around checking this out.

 

[ufos8mycow]

I never put much thought into the white truck. Even at my age(44) I spend time on OSU's campus driving around at 1,2 or 3am sometimes. I drive up and down alleys and side roads looking for parking along with 20-30 other guys. It's not uncommon for me to drive around the same block 3-4 times looking for a space. Since I'm a stagehand and the amount of concerts on campus I do this alot. I have never been stopped or questioned about this and I have never heard any stories from co-workers of their being stopped.

Now when I do this in downtown Columbus it's different. Tonight I worked the ballet. I sat in my car at a meter eating doughnuts when a cruiser went by. A few minutes later he circled the block and 'checked me out'. Now this could have been because he 'sensed' the doughnuts but I think it was because of the neighborhood.

My guess is they found this truck and seeing a legitimate reason to be there at that time and maybe an inspection of the truck itself. IMO.

Most of the police I see on campus areas are concerned about students and alcohol. I don't think there is an expectation of things like this happening on campuses as much as other areas of a city.

I think this is a fault in cities with large university campuses. There is a different sense of enforcement and watchfulness. While there are petty crimes and alcohol related crimes the more serious crimes(non-sexual) are usually less in these areas. And this makes the student population and the police less likely to notice things people in other parts of the city might not miss.

If I see a young person stumbling down the street at 3am outside my house I would be very concerned. If I am on campus and see the same person I would probably just think they are at the end of a fun night and stumbling home.

The things that have stuck in my mind are the gravel lot and the trash dumpster. Even though the police searched the city landfill I'm guessing they only searched the area that was known to be used to dump these particular dumpsters. In all large city dumps they keep detailed records and can tell you when and in what part of the dump site a certain dumpster/truck was emptied.

I'm thinking the dumpster in the area she went missing was used temporarily to hold her until a plan could be made. Since the area is populated with out of state students I don't believe the perpetrator(if it was a student) would have any idea of a natural area to dump a body(lakes etc). Most probably she would have been moved to a second dumpster outside of the immediate area where the crime occurred.

This is why I believe her body is still in the city landfill but not in the location where police searched.

 

[Jupiter812]

I never put much thought into the white truck. Even at my age(44) I spend time on OSU's campus driving around at 1,2 or 3am sometimes. I drive up and down alleys and side roads looking for parking along with 20-30 other guys. It's not uncommon for me to drive around the same block 3-4 times looking for a space. Since I'm a stagehand and the amount of concerts on campus I do this alot. I have never been stopped or questioned about this and I have never heard any stories from co-workers of their being stopped.

Now when I do this in downtown Columbus it's different. Tonight I worked the ballet. I sat in my car at a meter eating doughnuts when a cruiser went by. A few minutes later he circled the block and 'checked me out'. Now this could have been because he 'sensed' the doughnuts but I think it was because of the neighborhood.

My guess is they found this truck and seeing a legitimate reason to be there at that time and maybe an inspection of the truck itself. IMO.

Most of the police I see on campus areas are concerned about students and alcohol. I don't think there is an expectation of things like this happening on campuses as much as other areas of a city.

I think this is a fault in cities with large university campuses. There is a different sense of enforcement and watchfulness. While there are petty crimes and alcohol related crimes the more serious crimes(non-sexual) are usually less in these areas. And this makes the student population and the police less likely to notice things people in other parts of the city might not miss.

If I see a young person stumbling down the street at 3am outside my house I would be very concerned. If I am on campus and see the same person I would probably just think they are at the end of a fun night and stumbling home.

The things that have stuck in my mind are the gravel lot and the trash dumpster. Even though the police searched the city landfill I'm guessing they only searched the area that was known to be used to dump these particular dumpsters. In all large city dumps they keep detailed records and can tell you when and in what part of the dump site a certain dumpster/truck was emptied.

I'm thinking the dumpster in the area she went missing was used temporarily to hold her until a plan could be made. Since the area is populated with out of state students I don't believe the perpetrator(if it was a student) would have any idea of a natural area to dump a body(lakes etc). Most probably she would have been moved to a second dumpster outside of the immediate area where the crime occurred.

This is why I believe her body is still in the city landfill but not in the location where police searched.

That's not the case in Bloomington. Though the neighborhood where Lauren and the others live is off campus, the apartment complexes are so big each one is like its own dorm. More IUB students live off campus than on. There are many enclaves of students living in single-family homes in neighborhoods throughout Bloomington, even at the end of city limits.

IU and student organizations hold many activities at parks, forests and lakes in the surrounding area, and in the case of a few POI, their fraternity did hazing in the rural areas. It takes minutes, literally, to reach these areas. I think it's much likely that she could have been taken to one of these areas than transferred from dumpster to dumpster.

 

[akh]

Since the dumpster is being mentioned I will tag on with this thought-
I said previously that JR et al returning to Bloomington seemed an odd thing to do if they were guilty. Some said 'no, it would be the perfect thing to do since it would make people think they are not guilty'. I never bought into that line of thinking. Too many reasons why an attorney would suggest they not return, guilty or not, and if guilty I think that would outweigh everything else. It would be understandable, even if innocent, why any wouldn't return to Bloomington.

But... all bets are off if any of them are secure that she won't be found. One way I could see that would be if they put her in the dumpster near their apartment (so no cell pings to worry about), the dumpster was emptied before checked, and then when the landfill was checked no body was found (because they were searching for the proverbial needle in the haystack at that point).

 

[OldSteve]

But choosing to not come forward is the more difficult alternative. Their spirit will always have Lauren's shadow lurking about. This is among the worst kind of baggage a person can drag through their life--and they will. They will never be free. Whereas fulfilling the charges has a finite end and a chance to start anew.

If they can't come forward for Lauren and her loved ones, maybe they can do it for themselves.

Good point! I wonder about why they are all so tight-lipped about what happened (at least that how it appears to me). Considering the number of POI's I would think any who weren't really that involved would come forward to ease there minds... clear the air and get out from under suspicion.

 

[Jupiter812]

Good point! I wonder about why they are all so tight-lipped about what happened (at least that how it appears to me). Considering the number of POI's I would think any who weren't really that involved would come forward to ease there minds... clear the air and get out from under suspicion.

I know, right?! Like JW? Someone said upthread (Abbey, maybe) that they find it hard to believe all that went down that night and no one alerted him. I Agree.

 

[bessie]

I had wondered if she might have entered one of the "Tenth and College" apartment complexes but someone told me that those buildings (Apartments and Village) had video cameras. Is that correct?

Here's one photo that shows the cameras in the rear of the buildings. There are many more photos in this thread:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140294"]IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 *PHOTOS & MAPS* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[imkeylime]

The thing that stands out to me is that if her friends are all completely innocent and at a loss as to what happened to Lauren, why there should have been any hesitation on anyone's part to completely and immediately copperate in every way possible. I don't think it would ever have occurred to me that a lawyer should be called, or that LE might find out I had done drugs the night before, if a friend was missing and clearly in danger or worse. I might regret it later, of course, if I ended up with drug charges, but I wouldn't have been worried about that at the time.

If these are just "party people" and not professional drug dealers, addicts, or users, it seems to be they would not have been so concerned about themselves, if innoncent. Again JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO And I know I am being naive to think that people think of others before themselves...oh well.

I think you raise good points, but I'm also not surprised that lawyers were called once LS was determined missing. IDK about other parts of the country, but where I live (east coast), calling a lawyer seems to be a typical response to issues involving kids and LE. And I'm sure the lawyer then advises the client on how much to say, etc. I'm not saying that's right, of course. A little info might have gone a long way ...