IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[imkeylime]

]JR looking worse for letting her walk home in that condition , I definitely agree with. JR offering up this information about the black eyes leads me to believe that he is telling the truth or covering his butt for some reason. Maybe another witness. He almost certainly would have known that lauren had trouble walking and fell down on the way there.. it's almost unbelievable that he would let her try walk home in that condition.

the drugs being a seperate issue . her drug dealer would have known how much dope she bought, and when she bought it, since they found a packet with white powder in her room. I would assume that he?she knew that LS had drugs stashed somewhere. makes me think that person would possibly try to find these drugs. I wonder if there were any of the poi's that were in her apartment or trying to get into her apartment after she was reported missing.

If I recall correctly, JW did enter LS' apartment late that morning, checking for her. He borrowed HT's key, I believe. IDK whether that's suspicious, though, since he obviously didn't find the alleged white powder. ???

 

[IUparent]

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...-student-disappeared-20110615,0,6629374.story

I'm not an expert on trucks, but this truck looks very similar to the truck shown in the surveillance video of missing Mickey Shunick and the apparent burnt out truck belonging to Brandon Scott Lavergne.

http://findmickeynow.com/site/

edit: This picture shows the truck clearer in the Mickey Shunick case.
http://www.kplctv.com/story/18628976/missing-lafayette-woman-captured-on-video-white-pickup-sought

In this article, it says they don't have a strong connection.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...r-cases-have-no-strong-connection-police-say/

The connections seems strong to me. Similar age of victims, similar appearance of victims, similar disappearance circumstances and the same white pick up truck on surveillance??? Why did the Lafayette Police Department blow off Capt. Joe Qualters?

 

[akh]

There's a gazillion white trucks. If LE is certain there was only one white truck on video, and feel certain they've cleared it, then it's hard to think how they could miss a connection. If nothing else, being certain of the white truck in the Bloomington video would mean they would be able to keep tabs if warranted to make any connections with another appearance elsewhere.

Point being, as long as LE is certain they KNOW who was in the white truck, and KNOW what white truck it is, it's now easier to make connections if there are connections to be made with other white trucks on other videos. If the Bloomington white truck never left Indiana in the timeframe necessary, that's pretty definitive.

And there's so many white trucks on the road these days that it just doesn't seem that big of a coincidence that in such a small sampling of cases, a white truck appears.

Totally different scenario if they don't identify the white truck... because now there's nobody to track.

I haven't looked at the white truck photos above so don't know whether they are even the same model or not. Many white trucks look basically the same... especially in blurry photos.

I'm not trying to totally discredit the idea LE missed something with the white truck, but I don't think these multiple white truck photos are anything to run with as a big break here either.

 

[IUparent]

I was wrong: "police identified and made contact with the owner, who Qualters said was “extremely cooperative.” He said the driver was just in the area of 10th Street and Morton Street around 4:15 am on June 3 to pick up an employee and video evidence does support that story. Still, police conducted an extensive search of the vehicle and nothing was found."

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2011/0...-not-connected-indiana-students-disappearance

 

[mik1965]

I'm still super suspicious of the white truck...what perfect timing (4:15)! Were there any other vehicles in the video around that time?? I wonder.... I wish I knew who the employee was they were picking up at that time of morning. If nothing else, they could have seen something. Plus, it still bothers me that in one of the photos, there's nothing in the back of the truck; yet in the other photo, there is something. I would like to know if it's really true or if they truly are suspicious of the owner of the white truck, but are acting like they aren't and are watching them closely. I hope so. I wish BPD was as determined and proactive as the police department in Louisiana.

 

[Hillside]

I'm still super suspicious of the white truck...what perfect timing (4:15)! Were there any other vehicles in the video around that time?? I wonder.... I wish I knew who the employee was they were picking up at that time of morning. If nothing else, they could have seen something. Plus, it still bothers me that in one of the photos, there's nothing in the back of the truck; yet in the other photo, there is something. I would like to know if it's really true or if they truly are suspicious of the owner of the white truck, but are acting like they aren't and are watching them closely. I hope so. I wish BPD was as determined and proactive as the police department in Louisiana.

I grew up in Bloomington, got my undergrad degree at IU, and have lived just outside Lafayette for several years. I've followed both LS and MS threads on WS from the start because these kinds of crimes are so horrific for the families, and I've tried to help in several ways.

IMO, BPD may or may not be as proactive as LPD. Bloomington does not have a CajunNet. In South Louisiana, everyone seems to know what their neighbor's cousin's nephew ate for breakfast, and we're willing to share that information with just about anyone who will listen. The circle of friends closest to LS is not closely connected to the Bloomington community, and has not been as forthcoming with information as they need to be to solve the case.

Perhaps a local PI could help bridge some communication gaps more than BD and associates. Perhaps, as others on this forum have suggested, public statements that don't threaten doom for the perp might help as well.

 

[mik1965]

Yes, I do agree with you. Or granting people immunity for information.

 

[mik1965]

Did any of you ever read any of the PT threads? Something I remember reading that has always stuck with me was something regarding JR missing a "sleeping bag"....anyone else remember that?

 

[Darcyline]

I am not really suspicious of the white truck. People who have seen the original, clearer pictures have said the stuff in the back of the truck was clearly some sort of supplies for their job. Both people were interviewed, cooperative, and allowed the truck to be searched fully, and video/other people backed up everything they said. I see no reason to continue to be suspicious unless we want to say it is a conspiracy that involves LE which...I just normally don't go there. I guess it is somewhat possible they do secretly suspect the truck, but are just lying about it, but in cases like that I have typically seem LE mince words a bit more rather than pretty much clearing the vehicle.

I do believe some other vehicles were caught on tape around the time and place, but I can't remember the exact statement about it. Like, were they more easily identified or just clearly not involved somehow?

 

[akh]

I do believe some other vehicles were caught on tape around the time and place, but I can't remember the exact statement about it. Like, were they more easily identified or just clearly not involved somehow?

IIRC initially there was something about the truck blowing a stop sign. With that in mind it could mean that LE was able to get plate numbers from people stopping at the sign... but if the truck rolled thru too quickly then there might not have been a shot of the truck with a legible view of the plate number.

Just guessing AND trying to recall old info... So take the above with a grain of salt.

 

[Tr.]

IIRC initially there was something about the truck blowing a stop sign. With that in mind it could mean that LE was able to get plate numbers from people stopping at the sign... but if the truck rolled thru too quickly then there might not have been a shot of the truck with a legible view of the plate number.

Just guessing AND trying to recall old info... So take the above with a grain of salt.

Reminds me of the searcher who claims to have seen JR inquiring about exhaust / muffler repair on a white truck just like the one in the video minus the lettering.
It was at an out-of-the-way shop north of Martinsville on the Wednesday following LS's disappearance.
He did not realize it was JR until he saw him in a news clip a month later...then made the connection.
Made me wonder who's truck it was and might they have dragged a muffler loose somehow?

 

[Mophebius]

I Have been following since day one of this case. I dont post extremely often, but always keep up to date on the case. I figured that since I am leaning more towards a specific senario than I had been, that I would post my new working theory. (IMHO)

Here goes, I know I had posted early on a few plausible senario's and I hadn't really taken seriously that this could have been a group effort with alot of moving parts and intricacy. My view's on this aren't miraculous or probably even unique. They are very fluid and I am open to other plausible senario's. What I think happend to Lauren is that she OD'd/medically related death. I dont believe she was murdered. I believe she was in an increasingly grave condition before she ever got back to CR's (and MB's) apartment, but still ALIVE when they got back there at say... 3:30-40ish am.

I think Lauren was again in very rough condition when they got back to CR and MB's from Kilroy's/Smallwood. I think that already by this point, Lauren is either deathly sick, ODing or having some kind of a medical emergency, with-in minutes of arriving in the appartment complex. (may have even began much before the appartment, but condition worsened). I think MB really panic's as he is more "with-it" than CR is at the time, and realizes just how rough ah shape she's really in, and either calls JR or runs over to JR's apt. Mere feet out his front door to his appartment and grabs JR to get him to help or takeover the situation. He and MB may have even just taken Lauren over to JR's right then, but I dont think they left her with him alone, at least not initially. I think they stayed at JR's apt. I believe JR probably, tried whatever simple means of reviving or trying to get Lauren to perk-up that he could think of in his altered state but without effect. When JR/MB/CR are unsuccessful in reviving Lauren, they make two emergency last-ditch phone calls (to two other men that had both hungout with LS at Smallwood earlier in the evening, where they had allegedly done drugs while watching the Nba playoff's at smallwood together, one is known to be DR. Neither call was answered by DR or other male acquaintance and no messages were left.

I believe JR and CR both felt partial culpability/responsibility having spent the lions share of the evening with her and one or both having done drugs with her and or furnished drugs or alcohol or all the above. MB followed suit with the other two, because he's threatend and or coherced into compliance with the plan by JR and CR, but I dont believe that MB had anything to do directly with the disposing of LS's body. I believe they (JR&CR) knew if they didn't take care of her body disposal that night, before they were under scrutiny, that people would start asking serious questions the next day. So I think MB stayed behind to hold down the fort and help solidify the aliby. Meanwhile CR and JR together transported LS to an undisclosed location somewhere with in an hour's radius of Bloomington and disposed of LS's body.

I believe that MB, CR and JR cleverly crafted their stories of that evening and following morning to construct a plausible deniability for each. CR's story is that he's too drunk etc to have any recollection after he's punched at smallwood... MB was doing a term paper and claims to have handed off LS to JR after she put CR to bed... JR claims he did an in-home sobriety test of sorts on LS, found her to be competent and let her use his phone to make some phone calls before allowing her to take off on bare feet at 4 am, all 90 pounds of her, to fend for herself without a cell phone or keys... Keeping in mind that none of their stories jive with what a multitude of other witnesses have pegged LS's condition as being in the same time period. I dont have to say anything else, this paragraph speaks for itself.

I think several other POI's have their suspicions of these guys, including JW but are afraid to admit it (at least publicly) because of fear of retribution or even possible culpability or criminal charges themselves. I think JR and CR are the only two people who know exactly where her body is, but 3 people (JR,MB,CR) know exactly what happend to her. I think that is why so many people lawyered-up early on in the case. I really believe that JW had nothing to do with this at all, but got a lawyer precautionarily due to being the typical Primo 1A suspect becasue he was the boyfriend of the victim. Unfortunately, despite all this, I still believe that until we have a body, we have no case.

I think this is a self preservation case rather than a murder or sexual assault case, that's just my opinion. None-the-less it doesn't bring closure or justice to LS's family and true friends, I pray for that every day.

That's my current working theory, feel free to ask questions and poke holes. Any thought provoking information in this case is good IMO.

 

[Mophebius]

Reminds me of the searcher who claims to have seen JR inquiring about exhaust / muffler repair on a white truck just like the one in the video minus the lettering.
It was at an out-of-the-way shop north of Martinsville on the Wednesday following LS's disappearance.
He did not realize it was JR until he saw him in a news clip a month later...then made the connection.
Made me wonder who's truck it was and might they have dragged a muffler loose somehow?

Just wondering TR if you had a link, or anything to substantiate that claim? Or do you think it was just some TG or PT rumor that has been passed along?

 

[TobyWong*]

I Have been following since day one of this case. I dont post extremely often, but always keep up to date on the case. I figured that since I am leaning more towards a specific senario than I had been, that I would post my new working theory. (IMHO)

Here goes, I know I had posted early on a few plausible senario's and I hadn't really taken seriously that this could have been a group effort with alot of moving parts and intricacy. My view's on this aren't miraculous or probably even unique. They are very fluid and I am open to other plausible senario's. What I think happend to Lauren is that she OD'd/medically related death. I dont believe she was murdered. I believe she was in an increasingly grave condition before she ever got back to CR's (and MB's) apartment, but still ALIVE when they got back there at say... 3:30-40ish am.

I think Lauren was again in very rough condition when they got back to CR and MB's from Kilroy's/Smallwood. I think that already by this point, Lauren is either deathly sick, ODing or having some kind of a medical emergency, with-in minutes of arriving in the appartment complex. (may have even began much before the appartment, but condition worsened). I think MB really panic's as he is more "with-it" than CR is at the time, and realizes just how rough ah shape she's really in, and either calls JR or runs over to JR's apt. Mere feet out his front door to his appartment and grabs JR to get him to help or takeover the situation. He and MB may have even just taken Lauren over to JR's right then, but I dont think they left her with him alone, at least not initially. I think they stayed at JR's apt. I believe JR probably, tried whatever simple means of reviving or trying to get Lauren to perk-up that he could think of in his altered state but without effect. When JR/MB/CR are unsuccessful in reviving Lauren, they make two emergency last-ditch phone calls (to two other men that had both hungout with LS at Smallwood earlier in the evening, where they had allegedly done drugs while watching the Nba playoff's at smallwood together, one is known to be DR. Neither call was answered by DR or other male acquaintance and no messages were left.

I believe JR and CR both felt partial culpability/responsibility having spent the lions share of the evening with her and one or both having done drugs with her and or furnished drugs or alcohol or all the above. MB followed suit with the other two, because he's threatend and or coherced into compliance with the plan by JR and CR, but I dont believe that MB had anything to do directly with the disposing of LS's body. I believe they (JR&CR) knew if they didn't take care of her body disposal that night, before they were under scrutiny, that people would start asking serious questions the next day. So I think MB stayed behind to hold down the fort and help solidify the aliby. Meanwhile CR and JR together transported LS to an undisclosed location somewhere with in an hour's radius of Bloomington and disposed of LS's body.

I believe that MB, CR and JR cleverly crafted their stories of that evening and following morning to construct a plausible deniability for each. CR's story is that he's too drunk etc to have any recollection after he's punched at smallwood... MB was doing a term paper and claims to have handed off LS to JR after she put CR to bed... JR claims he did an in-home sobriety test of sorts on LS, found her to be competent and let her use his phone to make some phone calls before allowing her to take off on bare feet at 4 am, all 90 pounds of her, to fend for herself without a cell phone or keys... Keeping in mind that none of their stories jive with what a multitude of other witnesses have pegged LS's condition as being in the same time period. I dont have to say anything else, this paragraph speaks for itself.

I think several other POI's have their suspicions of these guys, including JW but are afraid to admit it (at least publicly) because of fear of retribution or even possible culpability or criminal charges themselves. I think JR and CR are the only two people who know exactly where her body is, but 3 people (JR,MB,CR) know exactly what happend to her. I think that is why so many people lawyered-up early on in the case. I really believe that JW had nothing to do with this at all, but got a lawyer precautionarily due to being the typical Primo 1A suspect becasue he was the boyfriend of the victim. Unfortunately, despite all this, I still believe that until we have a body, we have no case.dc

,

I think this is a self preservation case rather than a murder or sexual assault case, that's just my opinion. None-the-less it doesn't bring closure or justice to LS's family and true friends, I pray for that every day.

That's my current working theory, feel free to ask questions and poke holes. Any thought provoking information in this case is good IMO.

Imo spot on but I add DB (the runcible spoon tweeter) which I think they, at the time would alibi him thinking they wuld have a bigger time frame before Lauren was beng looked for.imo. he then hightailed it back to metro detroit.

 

[Ros]

Did any of you ever read any of the PT threads? Something I remember reading that has always stuck with me was something regarding JR missing a "sleeping bag"....anyone else remember that?

Yes, I remember that too. Here it is:

"Topic: Girl missing in Indiana (BLOOMINGTON) pt. 6
Posted by crashtestdummy - 2011-06-29 10:41:37 -0400
So what's this about Jay Rosenbaum and a missing sleeping bag?"

No further details were given and other participants on PT dismissed it as "nans," meaning nonsense.

 

[Tr.]

Just wondering TR if you had a link, or anything to substantiate that claim? Or do you think it was just some TG or PT rumor that has been passed along?

no link...i heard the story first hand during a search

 

[akh]

MB followed suit with the other two, because he's threatend and or coherced into compliance with the plan by JR and CR, but I dont believe that MB had anything to do directly with the disposing of LS's body.

I'm not sure how you decided that MB was less guilty than the others? Why would he need to be threatened or coerced?

Add this to your theory:
You didn't answer the question why they wouldn't take her to an emergency room or call an ambulance. The answer could be that if they got her 'official' help that, should they medics save her, officials would ask what she'd taken and where'd she gotten it. And she'd tell them. Thus indicting them and/or their friends.

 

[holly2325]

(snipped by me)

I think Lauren was again in very rough condition when they got back to CR and MB's from Kilroy's/Smallwood. I think that already by this point, Lauren is either deathly sick, ODing or having some kind of a medical emergency, with-in minutes of arriving in the appartment complex. (may have even began much before the appartment, but condition worsened). I think MB really panic's as he is more "with-it" than CR is at the time, and realizes just how rough ah shape she's really in, and either calls JR or runs over to JR's apt. Mere feet out his front door to his appartment and grabs JR to get him to help or takeover the situation. He and MB may have even just taken Lauren over to JR's right then, but I dont think they left her with him alone, at least not initially. I think they stayed at JR's apt. I believe JR probably, tried whatever simple means of reviving or trying to get Lauren to perk-up that he could think of in his altered state but without effect. When JR/MB/CR are unsuccessful in reviving Lauren, they make two emergency last-ditch phone calls (to two other men that had both hungout with LS at Smallwood earlier in the evening, where they had allegedly done drugs while watching the Nba playoff's at smallwood together, one is known to be DR. Neither call was answered by DR or other male acquaintance and no messages were left.

I believe JR and CR both felt partial culpability/responsibility having spent the lions share of the evening with her and one or both having done drugs with her and or furnished drugs or alcohol or all the above.



I think this is a self preservation case rather than a murder or sexual assault case, that's just my opinion. None-the-less it doesn't bring closure or justice to LS's family and true friends, I pray for that every day.

That's my current working theory, feel free to ask questions and poke holes. Any thought provoking information in this case is good IMO.

Some thoughts:
1. In this scenario it must have happened quickly. An OD usually is drawn out and messy and would leave evidence.

2. With 3 people the decision to hide her would have to be unanimous or there would have to be one dominant personality.

3. In this scenario they could have felt remorse the next day and wished that they had just called 911 but the question of determining if she was dead could now make them responsible even for an accidental death and there was no turning back. They would have to individually or collectively reaffirm their decision.

4. Much of their subsequent behavior would depend on their confidence in LS hiding place.

5. The million dollar question is what car did she leave in? And if she left in a car, is it possible she was alive when she got in and all the evidence is in that car.

 

[Mergatroid]

DRs car might be a possibility.

 

[Seagull]

Some thoughts:
1. In this scenario it must have happened quickly. An OD usually is drawn out and messy and would leave evidence.

I was thinking about this, as well. Though I generally agree with most of Mophebius' theory, it seems like an OD situation would definitely leave some sort of evidence on carpet or furniture. Is it that the technology they use on TV crime shows so readily isn't really very commonly used in smaller town cases? Yes, I realize it's TV, but they make it seem like so very much is traceable.

Without this sort of evidence it makes me wonder if she simply died from head trauma/internal bleeding, which may have been enhanced or hastened due to the drug use. I have no medical background and thus don't have any idea which types of deaths tend to leave little to no evidence. Have just heard many say that an OD is a "messy process."

Also, in trying to wrap my head around the lack of evidence, I also can't help thinking that due to LS's diminutive size, she could have easily been fit into a bigger duffle bag. A hockey bag, for instance, which would make moving a body even less conspicuous.

I feel as though we have just come to looking under the same rocks again and again at this point. Sigh.