IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27

[VeryVeritas]

I am still puzzled by the rumor that some combination of JR, CR, and MB were out looking for LS, possibly before JW and HT had reported her missing. If JR and MB were telling the truth (CR isn't saying anything but he allegedly asked someone if they'd seen a little blonde girl), they'd have no reason to think that she did not make it back to Smallwood. If she OD'd and they did something with her body, why would they go out looking for her?

What if one or more of them left her outside, unconscious at least, maybe dead or dying, figuring that she'd be found soon but her death or OD would not be blamed on them?

Then when there are no sirens during the night, they are puzzled and figure that she must have gotten up and walked away on her own. But even in this scenario, how would they know that she did not make it back to Smallwood.

1) This is another reason why MB's story is a lie.
2) The problem with leaving LS face down in the gravel lot is that just a few moments later the guy picks up her wallet/keys and sees nothing, she's already out of there. Now, if there were some vulture just waiting for this to happen... and they snapped her up, why would MB make up the non-sense he did, when he could just say he never saw her? To protect CR? That is believable to a point. Trouble is that it then involves JR. Why would JR spin his yarns if he also knew nothing and she did not come to his place?

 

[akh]

And let me flip this around to you. If you think it's so unlikely that a pro disposed of LS, or that JR and pals were not capable of a respectful burial given the several hours they had, then how do you think it went down?

Dumpster near the apartments makes the most sense to me. At least until I hear official word it was checked before it was dumped.... which I've never heard.

The landfill search means next to nothing to me because IMHO it was too little, too late. I'm also skeptical that trash REALLY all gets perfectly dumped in some highly specific grid areas with nary a mistake or laziness ever a factor. But that wouldn't matter much anywaybecause IMO by the time they were checking the landfill they would've been looking for a needle in a haystack.

It's a fact LE has known a body was in a landfill and couldn't find it so not finding one this time means little.

 

[akh]

Plausible Deniability. Yes, it's Plausible, yet factors are pointing to this being a load of BS.

Really?
What about makes it a load of BS compared to any other theory that's out there that ends with JR's involvement? There's nothing but speculation to make that connection as well.

Other than it would invalidate a couple popular theories if true, in the grand scheme of things it's really no more shot down or validated than those theories either from what I can tell. (not that it would be my #1 theory either mind you).

I think some people have a problem with fixating on one theory and refuse to look at alternate possibilities because it weakens the scenario they want to believe. But when there seems to be something missing in the puzzle I think it's best to explore new ideas and how they might open new avenues of thought.

.02....

 

[monkey222]

The keys/wristlet, I thought, were put or seen on the alley rail, seen by male, who then realized after LS went missing, that alas, his roomate? also saw the item on rail an hour or so later..am thinking now around 6am..daybreak. I always thought that odd that two guy roomates would notice such an item

 

[doubtingthomas]

There have been several posters wondering why CR would cover for JR and JR cover for CR if they were not that close of friends. I don’t feel friendship has any thing to do with it. It has more to do with covering their own *advertiser censored**.

First let’s look at CR. He has been with LS most of the night. A lot of people have seen him with her. I think he also knows there are cameras around that will show them together. Knowing her condition what else is he going to do with her but take her back to the apt. How would he explain that he left her in the ally or even outside the apt. I think she passes out or dies in route or at the apt. I think this is the cause of him throwing up. He is now in panic mode. He and MB or MB alone decides to let JR know what has happened.

Now JR. JR knowing that she has taken drugs and alcohol at his apt knows that he is on the hook also. Rather than point fingers at one another they can make up any story to cover them both. I think CR asking around the next morning about seeing a blond girl is to see if anyone saw them and can refute their story. So it is much easier to say yes she was here but I saw her leave. He can then tell CR and MB he will take care of it.

This is where mystery guest or maybe someone from the party earlier comes in. If they had an auto parked outside the apt or across the street, it would be very easy to take 11th street west to 37 and head out of town and not be seen on camera.

This is my theory on what might have happened.

 

[British]

There have been several posters wondering why CR would cover for JR and JR cover for CR if they were not that close of friends. I don’t feel friendship has any thing to do with it. It has more to do with covering their own *advertiser censored**.

First let’s look at CR. He has been with LS most of the night. A lot of people have seen him with her. I think he also knows there are cameras around that will show them together. Knowing her condition what else is he going to do with her but take her back to the apt. How would he explain that he left her in the ally or even outside the apt. I think she passes out or dies in route or at the apt. I think this is the cause of him throwing up. He is now in panic mode. He and MB or MB alone decides to let JR know what has happened.

Now JR. JR knowing that she has taken drugs and alcohol at his apt knows that he is on the hook also. Rather than point fingers at one another they can make up any story to cover them both. I think CR asking around the next morning about seeing a blond girl is to see if anyone saw them and can refute their story. So it is much easier to say yes she was here but I saw her leave. He can then tell CR and MB he will take care of it.

This is where mystery guest or maybe someone from the party earlier comes in. If they had an auto parked outside the apt or across the street, it would be very easy to take 11th street west to 37 and head out of town and not be seen on camera.

This is my theory on what might have happened.

It is a good theory, BUT, why not take her to a hospital and abandon her there. Were they so afraid police would go after them for the drugs? After all they have rich families and they probably knew they could get good attorneys. Also, the shock of seeing someone dead, especially if sober as one of them was, would have make them think twice before planning to dispose a body. I think this is the theory most people assume to be the case (including probably LS's parents, based on the way they plead to the POIs for more info), but I dont believe it is the case.

 

[British]

Respecting your thinking, I disagree.
And let me flip this around to you. If you think it's so unlikely that a pro disposed of LS, or that JR and pals were not capable of a respectful burial given the several hours they had, then how do you think it went down?

I think that most likely she never made it back to 5 North. My suspicion is that she was taken with a car somewhere before making it to 5 North. Possibly by one of the POIs and likely a second unknown person. Hard to know how and in what context.

It could be a sexual crime and/or OD. In either case, in such a scenario, 2 POIs would have lied to cover-up for the 3rd one, who might have returned to 5 North after her body was disposed (probably somewhere in water). The reason that I dont believe she made it to 5 North is that the cadaver dogs did not pick up a scent when taken to 5 North.

 

[akh]

Were they so afraid police would go after them for the drugs?

I'd say given the rest of theory, or anything like that theory, the answer to the above is easily "yes".

 

[imkeylime]

There have been several posters wondering why CR would cover for JR and JR cover for CR if they were not that close of friends. I don’t feel friendship has any thing to do with it. It has more to do with covering their own *advertiser censored**.

First let’s look at CR. He has been with LS most of the night. A lot of people have seen him with her. I think he also knows there are cameras around that will show them together. Knowing her condition what else is he going to do with her but take her back to the apt. How would he explain that he left her in the ally or even outside the apt. I think she passes out or dies in route or at the apt. I think this is the cause of him throwing up. He is now in panic mode. He and MB or MB alone decides to let JR know what has happened.

Now JR. JR knowing that she has taken drugs and alcohol at his apt knows that he is on the hook also. Rather than point fingers at one another they can make up any story to cover them both. I think CR asking around the next morning about seeing a blond girl is to see if anyone saw them and can refute their story. So it is much easier to say yes she was here but I saw her leave. He can then tell CR and MB he will take care of it.

This is where mystery guest or maybe someone from the party earlier comes in. If they had an auto parked outside the apt or across the street, it would be very easy to take 11th street west to 37 and head out of town and not be seen on camera.

This is my theory on what might have happened.

IMO, the scenario you describe is likely, i.e., LS passing out/dying outside the apartment and CR panicking (and vomiting upon realizing that).

But I believe that JR and CR were close friends to begin with. They got in trouble at SW the previous Halloween (http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto):

"Rossman is on the Smallwood Plaza “no trespass” list following an Oct. 31, 2010, incident at the complex. At 2:58 a.m., police found Rossman and Jay Rosenbaum attempting to enter Smallwood with a credit card. Police also report the two said they could enter the complex by force.

Rossman and Rosenbaum were arrested on charges of illegal consumption. Rossman was booked into jail at 4:03 a.m. and released on his own recognizance at 7:55 a.m. Rosenbaum was booked into the jail at 3:47 a.m. and released on his own recognizance at 12:08 p.m."

Combine friendship with JR feeling accountable and perhaps he would have felt compelled to get involved, especially if he wasn't thinking straight at that point of the night.

 

[imkeylime]

I saw the tweet before it was taken down. Now I wish I would have saved a screen shot.

My guess is that JR saw LS walking out escorted by his guest but he hasn't said so. The PIs, parents, LE may suspect, but cannot prove, that is so. They do not want there to be pre-trial publicity that would interfere with a trial. The guest's family has probably hired a very good lawyer. The media are not going to print anything unless they can get it from a reliable source and the tweet is now private.

I have also found it curious that every time people get too far along in suspicions towards the guest, the blogs either stop putting out information on LS (e.g. TG) or the go off line all together (both versions of JRNNT). On PT, the posts started getting modded. The original article in which HT says that JR had a guest from home was taken off the web.

If the guest was not at JRs, where else would he be in Bton at that time?

I don't have a screen shot, either, but I saw it, too, as I've noted.

It's a mystery why we don't see more in the press about it, unless, as you noted, DB has an alibi. If he clearly wasn't at the apartment, and his number doesn't show up on JR's phone that night/morning, perhaps there's not much to say.

It's a long shot, but perhaps DB had another friend at IU? My son, for instance, has several friends who attend Northeastern. And though such friends know each other, they don't necessarily hang out, so he'd probably visit them separately. IDK ... like you, I find the situation odd.

 

[imkeylime]

Hello Websleuths.

I would like to introduce myself, I am sweet_blush (an anagram of websleuths).

I joined WS to discuss LS specifically.

I have paid close attention to this situation from the very beginning, on many forums including Gatto's blog, and I can most likely answer any questions concerning PT.

I would like to see closure for the Spierer family, as well as the communities, both online and IRL... that have been impacted by this tragedy.

Hello my new WS friends...

A belated welcome, sweet blush! I've been struggling to keep up here ... lots of family coming and going this summer. I did follow some of the early posts on PT. Thanks for providing your insight into those.

 

[Jupiter812]

I don't have a screen shot, either, but I saw it, too, as I've noted.

It's a mystery why we don't see more in the press about it, unless, as you noted, DB has an alibi. If he clearly wasn't at the apartment, and his number doesn't show up on JR's phone that night/morning, perhaps there's not much to say.

It's a long shot, but perhaps DB had another friend at IU? My son, for instance, has several friends who attend Northeastern. And though such friends know each other, they don't necessarily hang out, so he'd probably visit them separately. IDK ... like you, I find the situation odd.

After thinking about DB's tweet some more, I question whether an extremely guilty party would do such a thing several hours later. One would get out of dodge, wouldn't he?

 

[imkeylime]

http://m.theindychannel.com/w/news-top/story/70215619/
See link for details

While I doubted this was LS' due to it just being a skull, previous posts (Tr.'s, Jacobite's, etc.) have made me wonder about the White River and the Indy area in general. I can see the possibilities.

Also, I wonder if the ponytail/clump of hair connects to the skull. Obviously an Asian man could have a dark (black?) ponytail. Or not.

 

[Jupiter812]

If we suspend for a moment that MB put CR to bed, what else might Lauren and CR done? Continue on their quest for what they might have been going back to her Smallwood apartment.

Where else might they have gone in their quest? A few doors down to JR's.

Just another possibility to throw out there...

 

[imkeylime]

After thinking about DB's tweet some more, I question whether an extremely guilty party would do such a thing several hours later. One would get out of dodge, wouldn't he?

You'd think so. It could just be a weird coincidence ... DB was in town, having breakfast with someone at the Runcible Spoon, and tweeted about it. After the fact, all h*ll breaks loose for JR, making him suspect as well. I know we've discussed the tweet being a code of sorts, but that would definitely entail DB putting himself on the line.

I wonder what percentage of MI residents go to IU. Maybe DB knew a girl from southeast MI who attended IU? My son knows three or four guys at Northeastern, but a girl he's also close to is going there. If he were to visit, he'd stay with one of the guys but spend a lot of time with her. Or maybe he'd visited JR other times and met a girl through him? Just trying to think of alternatives ...

 

[ared684]

It is a good theory, BUT, why not take her to a hospital and abandon her there. Were they so afraid police would go after them for the drugs? After all they have rich families and they probably knew they could get good attorneys. Also, the shock of seeing someone dead, especially if sober as one of them was, would have make them think twice before planning to dispose a body. I think this is the theory most people assume to be the case (including probably LS's parents, based on the way they plead to the POIs for more info), but I dont believe it is the case.

I couldn't agree more. Sure, it's the most obvious answer but with a body missing for over a year, it leaves too many unanswered questions. I have a hard time believing that got so lucky disposing the body, leaving zero evidence, no witnesses, and were not caught on camera at all. They're just college kids.

 

[ared684]

After thinking about DB's tweet some more, I question whether an extremely guilty party would do such a thing several hours later. One would get out of dodge, wouldn't he?

If you're referring to DB allegedly being involved in the disposal of her body then heading to Runcible Spoon for a nice big meal, I completely agree. I don't think you'd stop to eat if you disposed of a young girls body because of an OD just hours before.

 

[ared684]

I'd say given the rest of theory, or anything like that theory, the answer to the above is easily "yes".

So you hide the drugs in the apartment and tell police/medics that you don't know what she took or how she got them. It doesn't make sense that they would be scared enough for drugs, but not scared enough for the disposal of a dead body leaving possible evidence. The only way I could see drugs being the reason is if CR drugged LS and bought the drugs from JR. That's the only reasonable explanation if it was drugs, IMO.

 

[holly2325]

Dumpster near the apartments makes the most sense to me. At least until I hear official word it was checked before it was dumped.... which I've never heard.

The landfill search means next to nothing to me because IMHO it was too little, too late. I'm also skeptical that trash REALLY all gets perfectly dumped in some highly specific grid areas with nary a mistake or laziness ever a factor. But that wouldn't matter much anywaybecause IMO by the time they were checking the landfill they would've been looking for a needle in a haystack.

It's a fact LE has known a body was in a landfill and couldn't find it so not finding one this time means little.

I agree this scenario is possible. But when I read about the work they are still doing on the Etan Patz case in NYC makes me wonder if they have further scrutinized the dumpster behind JR's apartment. Also neighbors could volunteer lists of things they had in the trash that day and those could be used to confirm they had the right trash in the landfill search.

 

[doubtingthomas]

If LS died on route or at 5 North both JR and CR know that if she is found that the focus would be on them. She started the night out at JR's and spent the night with CR. Taking her to the hospital would be to risky. I am sure there are cameras around there also. It seems to me they are more use to buying there way out of trouble. Why not pay someone to remove her out of site. I can't see either of them trying to dispose of her.