IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Jupiter812]

Wow - I had no idea there were so many different types of search dogs: air scent dogs, trailing dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs; also ones specifically for disasters, water searches, and avalanches...

http://www.ussartf.org/dogs_search_rescue.htm

I guess it doesn't help if we don't know what type of dog was used. I think an air scent dog would be able to track someone who was being carried if the dog was brought in fairly soon after the person was reported missing.

This post says a bloodhound was brought in.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8168513&highlight=bloodhound#post8168513

This is a follow-up post to a question about the dog search.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8172970#post8172970"]IN IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #27 - Page 47 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Seagull]

new tidbit

http://www.wdrb.com/story/19401451/spierer-family-hopes-ring-prompts-new-tips

 

[akh]

new tidbit

http://www.wdrb.com/story/19401451/spierer-family-hopes-ring-prompts-new-tips

Why is the ring info being released and pushed now? That seems like the kind of thing you'd want to do in the days or maybe first couple of weeks following the disappearance. Am I wrong? Is there more to it? Is it just a way to prolong the media exposure and keep the case alive?

I'd think you'd want to know if anyone found a ring like that on the ground or anywhere that LS might've been. You'd want people looking for it of course. And you'd certainly want to know if anyone had been given a ring like that by someone that maybe didn't acquire it legally. Or if even it had been pawned or something along those lines.

But 14 months later, it seems like things would've cooled considerably with public interest that people might not even see this is being sought now. Someone could've found a ring like that somewhere June 4th or whatever and not had any idea this could've been an important find for the case. IOW, just thought they'd found a ring someone had lost. And now, they never even hear it could be connected to the case.

So, why release this now?

 

[friendsara]

Why is the ring info being released and pushed now? That seems like the kind of thing you'd want to do in the days or maybe first couple of weeks following the disappearance. Am I wrong? Is there more to it? Is it just a way to prolong the media exposure and keep the case alive?

I'd think you'd want to know if anyone found a ring like that on the ground or anywhere that LS might've been. You'd want people looking for it of course. And you'd certainly want to know if anyone had been given a ring like that by someone that maybe didn't acquire it legally. Or if even it had been pawned or something along those lines.

But 14 months later, it seems like things would've cooled considerably with public interest that people might not even see this is being sought now. Someone could've found a ring like that somewhere June 4th or whatever and not had any idea this could've been an important find for the case. IOW, just thought they'd found a ring someone had lost. And now, they never even hear it could be connected to the case.

So, why release this now?

I thought the same thing...I imagine, though, that CS is desperately thinking of any way to get people to come forward at this point, any information she could have released earlier that seemed inconsequential closer to the time of her disappearance. The whole thing makes me think there's really no new information, no solid leads

 

[Ros]

But according to JR she didn't go back to her place the same route she took to 5N.
So it wouldn't be after she left 5N.

JR wouldn't know if she turned back to take the alley route back to Smallwood. Also, I find it strange that she would have been walking barefoot into a gravel lot. If the dog was following scent left on the ground, would it have continued following her movements if CR started carrying her because she said that walking on the gravel hurt her feet?

I wonder if LE thought of having dogs track the scents of all the persons at 5N. And I really wonder whether a dog checked for a scent trail AWAY from 5N.

 

[imkeylime]

Why is the ring info being released and pushed now? That seems like the kind of thing you'd want to do in the days or maybe first couple of weeks following the disappearance. Am I wrong? Is there more to it? Is it just a way to prolong the media exposure and keep the case alive?

I'd think you'd want to know if anyone found a ring like that on the ground or anywhere that LS might've been. You'd want people looking for it of course. And you'd certainly want to know if anyone had been given a ring like that by someone that maybe didn't acquire it legally. Or if even it had been pawned or something along those lines.

But 14 months later, it seems like things would've cooled considerably with public interest that people might not even see this is being sought now. Someone could've found a ring like that somewhere June 4th or whatever and not had any idea this could've been an important find for the case. IOW, just thought they'd found a ring someone had lost. And now, they never even hear it could be connected to the case.

So, why release this now?

LS' jewelry was detailed early on in the NamUs missing person's site, though I don't remember a pic:

"DIAMOND STUD BAR BELLY RING, LARGE SILVER RING WITH TORQUOISE STONE MADE BY DAVID YURMAN, SMALL GOLD BAND PINKY RING WITH SMALL RED STONE, ROUND SILVER "O" SHAPED RING, THIN GOLD BRACELET WITH RED "EVIL EYE" RUBY SURROUNDED BY DIAMONDS, POSSIBLY A BLUE HALF MOON NECKLACE"

The pic must be the David Yurman ring (second item that list). I recall discussing it pretty early on here. DY jewelry is nice but pricey, with fairly distinctive settings. IMO, CS is just trying to jog people's memories. I don't think it's the type of jewelry that a person would be assaulted for, etc.

 

[imamaze]

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/31394641/detail.html
Spierer's Family Hopes Ring Leads To Clues
The family of missing Indiana University student Lauren Spierer released a picture of a ring similar to the one she may have been wearing the night she disappeared.

 

[imkeylime]

Sometimes the way Jacobite writes I often wonder if he/she may be related to ChickJustin.

About a month ago Jacobite was demanding we search the lake behind ZO's house off 82nd St. It's not that I agree or disagree with your thoughts or comments, I just wish you'd gather your thoughts before addressing them with all of us.

Sometimes its like Gomer Pyle of Websleuths!

IMO, it helps to have a variety of communication styles. I know that I communicate circularly vs. linearly, but I trust that someone will glean something from my comments and then run with it. And I've seen that happen, which helps me clarify my brainstorming. I like how some people are more analytical and some more speculative here. JMO.

Re: ZO's house and the lake: If I felt confident that the mystery man was from ZO's group, I could see this. It could be that CR was the mystery man, based on more recent info about LS falling and CR carrying her en route to 5N. But the reported "Can I take you home?" still bothers me. For him to say that, I'd think he'd be play acting for the benefit of a witness, which I'm not sure he'd have been able to do (under the circumstances).

 

[imkeylime]

Maybe Corey Rossman had a good reason to puke on the carpet.
Lauren and Corey exit Smallwood at 2:42. Within 5 minutes she is seen falling 3 times at 10th and College. Nine minutes after leaving home she is last seen on camera. Then, a tracking dog loses her scent before 5 N. This looks very very very grim.

I find this plausible. While MB did say in one article that CR was intoxicated, based on his prior arrests, CR seems to party regularly. It's possible that the hit at SW caused him to vomit vs. alcohol. Or maybe, as you note, something dire happened to LS that shook him up.

I'm up in the air about whether LS ever made it to 5N, though I don't see how JR could pass any form of lie detector test if she didn't. ???

 

[LongTallTexan]

It concerns me how little information we have from LE directly and much of the MSM testimony is 2nd hand or hear say. What is clear to me, lawyer or not, LE does not have any significant information that 'fills in the gaps' to what we know here that would provide a suspect/lead. Even up until last August, the possiblity of LS dumpster/landfill was a realistic scenario for LE, becuase you don't spend the $$/manpower on a landfill search if it's not viable. With the landfill search being 2 months after the search, most of the testimonies, witnesses, etc were already collected, interviewed, and the data compiled in to most of what they have now. My point is, they really don't have anything...they have a series of events in an evening that don't sustain why or how she went missing.....if they had a shred of evidence to go on, they'd act and we'd know about it.
Personally, I don't post much because of the theories posted are all viable with certain sets of parameters or perspectives...they're all great speculation. Based on what we know, I think if LE had another "White Truck" piece of evidence that would help, we'd know about it....the are under great scrutiny to solve a case of this magnitude, which leads to believe that they have not any evidence to poke a hole in the 5N boys stories/testimonies.....so I think she was there, she touched (fingerprints) the phone, she mad the call and an impaired JR let her leave. But then what...where did she go?

There are still questions I have concerning JW's alibi, how he handled the situation that doesn't necessarily point to him, but I think he could have as much additional info he's hiding as any of the 5N boys. If he knew what was going on that night, why wouldn't a jealous boyfriend pursue her that night to 'see for himself'. If he didn't know/care, then why the immediate concern the next morning.....IIRC, college kids can go days without seeing each other, at class, library, party, with new friends....or even taking off for a weekend.....why 'missing'? Unless they all really don't know....I find it hard to believe that all the errant activities of such a night add up she was fine walking home and then ANOTHER very unlucky event happened to her.....but there's just no shred of evidence! No coat, no jewelry, no trace, no blood, no DNA.....unless all the evidence is right in front of our eyes....ID card, phone, shoes, purse, key. Frustrated!

 

[bluenoser]

I thought the same thing...I imagine, though, that CS is desperately thinking of any way to get people to come forward at this point, any information she could have released earlier that seemed inconsequential closer to the time of her disappearance. The whole thing makes me think there's really no new information, no solid leads

If I remember correctly, they did release info. about this ring from the start. I think they may just want to jog people's memory about it (or I'm completely delusional lol). I may get a chance to look for it later, unless someone else remembers it too.

 

[Jupiter812]

I find this plausible. While MB did say in one article that CR was intoxicated, based on his prior arrests, CR seems to party regularly. It's possible that the hit at SW caused him to vomit vs. alcohol. Or maybe, as you note, something dire happened to LS that shook him up.

I'm up in the air about whether LS ever made it to 5N, though I don't see how JR could pass any form of lie detector test if she didn't. ???

I can see how he could pass a test that she was there and left. For me, the issue is timing. Let's say she arrives at JR's at approx 3:30 and she leaves with someone from his apt. She and this someone (mystery man) are seen by the bar manager at 3:38. JR adds an hour to part of the night to cover for his friend.

What I think and wonder about the bar manager's account:

-- Her time of 3:38 is correct. The corner clock said 3:38. It was not off by an hour because the time change had happened months prior. Bars close at 3:00 a.m., she's a bar manager.

-- "Can I take you home" is not a direct quote by the mystery man according to TG's blog. If you remove "can" it changes the meaning.

-- The witness was shown 6 photos. Who are the other two?

-- Why didn't police release the artist's sketch of mystery man?

 

[LongTallTexan]

One area that most us have respectfully avoided yet implied from time to time is the interest/relationship/intentions of LS and CR. They meet only days before at Indy 500, CR is quoted to have 'designs' for LS...(I'm old school, I think meant he interested in her more than a friend), I believe I read but not sure if rumor or quote (or from where) that he told someone he wanted to sleep with her. Furthermore, there was wording on FB that led to a concern that maybe LS and JW were having issues. Then we get to that night, and supposedly LS had plans with JW, but he never hears from her....yet at 12:30 AM (that night/next morning) she decided to accept an invitation from JR (not CR) to come over and 'pre-game' before going to Kilroys. However, CR and LS stop by CRs apt before going to Kilroys....for how long and for what? If they had consentual sex, I would speculate it was then. I don't believe she was in a reasonible state to consent the rest of the night....byt she may have in her impaired state. However, maybe she didn't have CR viewed more as rape, creating a cover up/CYA. I could see sex occuring at 5N on the way back....but any concent would be impacted by her impairment. But I do think that was on CR's agenda for the night.....was it on LSs????? Who knew about it and did it create a result of OD, Long QT symptom that took her life and a rape/panic set it.....this would create the best motive for hiding a body IMO.

 

[imkeylime]

I can see how he could pass a test that she was there and left. For me, the issue is timing. Let's say she arrives at JR's at approx 3:30 and she leaves with someone from his apt. She and this someone (mystery man) are seen by the bar manager at 3:38. JR adds an hour to part of the night to cover for his friend.

What I think and wonder about the bar manager's account:

-- Her time of 3:38 is correct. The corner clock said 3:38. It was not off by an hour because the time change had happened months prior. Bars close at 3:00 a.m., she's a bar manager.

-- "Can I take you home" is not a direct quote by the mystery man according to TG's blog. If you remove "can" it changes the meaning.

-- The witness was shown 6 photos. Who are the other two?

-- Why didn't police release the artist's sketch of mystery man?

Hmmm ... all good points. IDK as much as I'd like about LD tests, but I believe responses can be "controlled" to a degree. So may half the truth would suffice?

IMO, we have to believe the bar manager's time, as you note. She knows when she left work, I'm sure. The last two points interest me most. I wonder if LE would have shown her pics of ZO or AB, for instance. Re: not releasing the sketch: I have no idea, unless they know who it is and have somehow cleared said person because they think the bar manager's time is wrong?

One last thought ... remember talk a long time ago about a dark-skinned guy who wanted to party with LS at Sports? IDK if that was legit info from somewhere or just a rumor ...

 

[imkeylime]

One area that most us have respectfully avoided yet implied from time to time is the interest/relationship/intentions of LS and CR. They meet only days before at Indy 500, CR is quoted to have 'designs' for LS...(I'm school, I think meant he interested in her more than a friend), I believe I read but not sure if rumor or quote (or from where) that he told someone he wanted to sleep with her. Furthermore, there was wording on FB that led to a concern that maybe LS and JW were having issues. Then we get to that night, and supposedly LS had plans with JW, but he never hears from her....yet at 12:30 AM (that night/next morning) she decided to accept an invitation from JR (not CR) to come over any 'pre-game' before going to Kilroys. However, CR and LS stop by CRs apt before going to Kilroys....for how long and for what? If they had consentual sex, I would speculate it was then. I don't believe she was in a reasonible state to consent the rest of the night....byt she may have in her impaired state. However, maybe she didn't have CR viewed more as rape, creating a cover up/CYA. I could see sex occuring at 5N on the way back....but any concent would be impacted by her impairment. But I do think that was on CR's agenda for the night.....was it on LSs????? Who knew about it and did it create a result of OD, Long QT symptom that took her life and a rape/panic set it.....this would create the best motive for hiding a body IMO.

You ask interesting questions, IMO. LS and CR could be in the "friend zone" that my kids talk about, where one thinks they're just friends (LS) and one wants more (CR). I can't base that on anything tangible except that LS didn't leave SW with him, like she was going on a date, but rather connected up with him later to most likely party, and what I read about him wanting to sleep with her.

I do see a lot of girls and guys hanging out as friends, even when one or the other has a boyfriend or girlfriend. And I don't think we can speculate that there was trouble brewing between LS and JW. But if CR took advantage of her state, it would definitely create a motive for hiding her body, as you note. There have been rumblings that he was acting inappropriate back at SW. ???

 

[Jacobite]

Sometimes the way Jacobite writes I often wonder if he/she may be related to ChickJustin.
Sometimes its like Gomer Pyle of Websleuths!

I'll have you know that I have a cousin who's a real detective working this case and he's so good, they call him Barney Fife in his hometown. And, I have other cousins who think they're detectives looking too. It's a family reunion every time I log in. Anyway, you must know my line back to Baden, Germany to know of the mentioned relationship. Now, let's find Lauren.

 

[Snapfade]

Imo... The David Yurmon Ring Blue Turquoise ring that she was wearing could be great lead to work.. they need a Press Release to every liscensed/permitted scrap dealer in midwest. These permits are charged annual fee at the local level. I am a permit holder and with metal price very high , there has been an termendous amonut of jewelry sold. However , there is not a scrap metal buyer around, that would melt to refine a Sterling Silver David Yurman Ring. David Yurmon is expensive and has great resale value. I dont know how many of this style of ring wasmanufactured but my guess is it a limited number, because there are limited fine jewelry stores in which yurmon will sell to. A national Press release to jewelers, presious metals buyers and refiners, could turn up leads because anyone buying and selling used jewelry, will remember this ring.

 

[Jupiter812]

Hmmm ... all good points. IDK as much as I'd like about LD tests, but I believe responses can be "controlled" to a degree. So may half the truth would suffice?

IMO, we have to believe the bar manager's time, as you note. She knows when she left work, I'm sure. The last two points interest me most. I wonder if LE would have shown her pics of ZO or AB, for instance. Re: not releasing the sketch: I have no idea, unless they know who it is and have somehow cleared said person because they think the bar manager's time is wrong?

One last thought ... remember talk a long time ago about a dark-skinned guy who wanted to party with LS at Sports? IDK if that was legit info from somewhere or just a rumor ...

That is legit info. from an acquaintance whose nephew works at Sports. Nephew said a "Mexican" kept trying to get Lauren's attention because he either had or knew where there was coke. I just thought about for the first time in a long time the other day.

 

[Jupiter812]

The press release about the ring reminds me of the $250,000 reward. Big money that has not resulted in a gain could mean a number of different things...

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I find this plausible. While MB did say in one article that CR was intoxicated, based on his prior arrests, CR seems to party regularly. It's possible that the hit at SW caused him to vomit vs. alcohol. Or maybe, as you note, something dire happened to LS that shook him up.

I'm up in the air about whether LS ever made it to 5N, though I don't see how JR could pass any form of lie detector test if she didn't. ???

I was just discussing this possibility, of LS never making it back to 5N, up thread a little ways but the snag with the theory is that JR saw her facial injuries that had only just happened on the way there through the alley and there is really no other way for him to have known about them without her having made it back there for him to see her.


I was wondering if the scent dogs would indicate that the trail stopped if she had turned around and back tracked over her own steps or would they 'see' 2 seperate trails?