IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[imkeylime]

I was just discussing this possibility, of LS never making it back to 5N, up thread a little ways but the snag with the theory is that JR saw her facial injuries that had only just happened on the way there through the alley and there is really no other way for him to have known about them without her having made it back there for him to see her.


I was wondering if the scent dogs would indicate that the trail stopped if she had turned around and back tracked over her own steps or would they 'see' 2 seperate trails?

Thanks! I hear what you're saying, but playing devil's advocate ... do we know at what time he mentioned the facial injuries? If he'd spoken first to CR, and CR said she fell flat on her face, could he have improvised? IDK ... you make a good point.

I actually didn't read about JR mentioning the black eye until the articles on the one-year anniversary. (But if he didn't mention that to LE earlier it would obviously be suspicious.)

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Thanks! I hear what you're saying, but playing devil's advocate ... do we know at what time he mentioned the facial injuries? If he'd spoken first to CR, and CR said she fell flat on her face, could he have improvised? IDK ... you make a good point.

I actually didn't read about JR mentioning the black eye until the articles on the one-year anniversary. (But if he didn't mention that to LE earlier it would obviously be suspicious.)

Yeahhh, but CR shouldn't have been able to tell anyone because he's not supposed to be able to remember. *wink*. In fact no one should have known unless they saw LS or saw the tape.

 

[imkeylime]

Yeahhh, but CR shouldn't have been able to tell anyone because he's not supposed to be able to remember. *wink*. In fact no one should have known unless they saw LS or saw the tape.

Well, you've got me on that one ... or got CR!

So we'll operate from the point of her making it back to 5N and seeing JR ... but could she have left earlier, like Jupiter pondered, making the 3:38 am witness sighting possible? Would her eye already be blackening in that time frame, do you think?

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Well, you've got me on that one ... or got CR!

So we'll operate from the point of her making it back to 5N and seeing JR ... but could she have left earlier, like Jupiter pondered, making the 3:38 am witness sighting possible? Would her eye already be blackening in that time frame, do you think?

I don't know, maybe, but then the witness KW who walked down 11th and crossed in front of 5N at 3:45 would have to be disregarded as well as her roommate who followed the same path later crossing in front of 5N st 4:20. Both say they saw and heard nothing and even said it was a quieter than usual night. Since i'm convienced that she did make it back to JR's, this reinforces my feeling that LS never left in the manner or at the time that JR says she did.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Just to expand on that last thought, It's been my expirence that when people lie about events they usually will leave the story intact right up until the thing they want to hide happens so I wonder if this is what JR is doing also.

 

[imkeylime]

Just to expand on that last thought, It's been my expirence that when people lie about events they usually will leave the story intact right up until the thing they want to hide happens so I wonder if this is what JR is doing also.

So ... alternative story endings might be that LS doesn't leave JR's on her own two feet or that LS flees JR's for some reason. We've discussed the first, i.e., she was taken out in a sleeping bag, cooler, hamper, etc. Or perhaps LS fled from someone/something at 5N (vs. JR letting her leave) and was followed? ???

 

[Ros]

The problem with the ring is that there are many turquoise rings for sale at any given time. If you search for "David Yurman ring turquoise" on ebay, you currently get 14 results.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...110432&_odkw=david+yurman+ring&_osacat=110432

You may get more on Craig's list.

I suspect that the Spierer's have been watching such sites for a year or so, hoping to see someone selling Lauren's ring. They are just now releasing the photo of a similar ring because they have not seen Lauren's ring listed.

Are David Yurman designs unique or limited editions or mass-produced?

 

[Snapfade]

I would call Yurman Rings limited editions.
Yurman limits the jewelry stores that sells his jewelry. Usually it will be the nicest jewelry store in a mid-size to larger city..as a general rule , yurman would not be found in a small city mom and pop jewelry store. Ebay is the best outlet to sell used David Yurman jewelry and there is a ring like laurens for sale now. A good identifying feature to isolate LS ring would be finger size. Also, Thats a large stone and to Size the ring small enough to fit LS finger would leave the ring in a very odd oval. And that would leave a trail back to that small fingersize even if sized larger at a later date. Almost all rings have identifting traits, but those traits are usually only known by the person wearing it.

 

[Jupiter812]

I don't know, maybe, but then the witness KW who walked down 11th and crossed in front of 5N at 3:45 would have to be disregarded as well as her roommate who followed the same path later crossing in front of 5N st 4:20. Both say they saw and heard nothing and even said it was a quieter than usual night. Since i'm convienced that she did make it back to JR's, this reinforces my feeling that LS never left in the manner or at the time that JR says she did.

Do you or anyone else know KW's route to 5N? All this time I envisioned it as Morton St. I'm not sure why but there must have been a detail when it was first reported to make me think this.

 

[Mergatroid]

Yeahhh, but CR shouldn't have been able to tell anyone because he's not supposed to be able to remember. *wink*. In fact no one should have known unless they saw LS or saw the tape.

Maybe JR stayed at Sports until it closed and was walking home during the period of time that LS and CR were in the alley/ gravel lot/ 10th & College area. JR might have seen her fall ( and then added the "black eye" detail to his story to boost his credibility).

Does anyone remember reading when JR says he got home that evening after Sports?

Another idea is LS did make it back to CRs , but not JRs... and MB told JR about LS's eyes.

 

[imkeylime]

Maybe JR stayed at Sports until it closed and was walking home during the period of time that LS and CR were in the alley/ gravel lot/ 10th & College area. JR might have seen her fall ( and then added the "black eye" detail to his story to boost his credibility).

Does anyone remember reading when JR says he got home that evening after Sports?

Another idea is LS did make it back to CRs , but not JRs... and MB told JR about LS's eyes.

The info about the black eye comes from the June 4, 2012 Lohud piece and is attributed to a PI. This is how it reads:

They came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door. Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said. “When Lauren walked into Rosenbaum’s apartment, he observed a very noticeable bruise under her eye,” the investigator wrote in a report summarizing his interview with Rosenbaum. “He stated he asked her what happened, and she responded, ‘I don’t know.’ ”

It seems that JR would have had to report this info to LE earlier on or it would raise suspicions to see it in the Lohud article. Unless he had memory loss, too ...

So she didn't remember how she got the bruise under her eye? In other words, she didn't remember falling ... would the alcohol and Klonopin do that?

I'm sorry ... I don't remember when JR got back from Sports. ???

 

[Jupiter812]

The info about the black eye comes from the June 4, 2012 Lohud piece and is attributed to a PI. This is how it reads:

They came over together, and Rosenbaum said he put on sweatclothes and opened the door. Spierer came carrying her fake ID and Smallwood key card, he said. “When Lauren walked into Rosenbaum’s apartment, he observed a very noticeable bruise under her eye,” the investigator wrote in a report summarizing his interview with Rosenbaum. “He stated he asked her what happened, and she responded, ‘I don’t know.’ ”

It seems that JR would have had to report this info to LE earlier on or it would raise suspicions to see it in the Lohud article. Unless he had memory loss, too ...

So she didn't remember how she got the bruise under her eye? In other words, she didn't remember falling ... would the alcohol and Klonopin do that?

I'm sorry ... I don't remember when JR got back from Sports. ???

Keylime, your post has woken me up tonight. I feel really awake, as Thelma (of Thelma and Louise) says.

I have read JR's statements again and again, but tonight they really stink. Wow. I don't care how comfortable a young woman is in her surroundings, to let her walk home alone in her condition and everything else we know about, add to that a bruised eye, not knowing how she got it is ...

:furious: UNCONSCIONABLE.

 

[imkeylime]

Keylime, your post has woken me up tonight. I feel really awake, as Thelma (of Thelma and Louise) says.

I have read JR's statements again and again, but tonight they really stink. Wow. I don't care how comfortable a young woman is in her surroundings, to let her walk home alone in her condition and everything else we know about, add to that a bruised eye, not knowing how she got it is ...

:furious: UNCONSCIONABLE.

I'm glad you are really awake, Jupiter. This case needs that. There's really no way to reconcile it, is there?

It's staggering to think that she didn't know how she'd gotten a bruise on her face. If we didn't know about the falls, it might suggest something else even.

(PS: I also hope you can get some sleep after waking up!)

 

[akh]

Keylime, your post has woken me up tonight. I feel really awake, as Thelma (of Thelma and Louise) says.

I have read JR's statements again and again, but tonight they really stink. Wow. I don't care how comfortable a young woman is in her surroundings, to let her walk home alone in her condition and everything else we know about, add to that a bruised eye, not knowing how she got it is ...

:furious: UNCONSCIONABLE.

But if he's telling the truth, the issue is really beside the point because that is what he did. So it doesn't get anyone closer to solving her disappearance. So then it just becomes a distraction unfortunately.

The weak part of the story to me is I don't know of too many people who get 'party injuries' where it doesn't throw cold water on their partying. Their story seems to be she was injured to some degree but not done partying. Possible but not all that plausible IMHO.

 

[Jupiter812]

But if he's telling, the issue is really beside the point because that is what he did. So it doesn't get anyone closer to solving her disappearance. So then it just becomes a distraction unfortunately.

The weak part of the story to me is I don't know of too many people who get 'party injuries' where it doesn't throw cold water on their partying. Their story seems to be she was injured to some degree but not done partying. Possible but not all that plausible IMHO.

No, it is not beside the point, AKH, because it is important to me. Not everything has to fit into your scheme of how you think Lauren's disappearance should be addressed here.

A distraction? Speak for yourself. I really find your going on and on ad nauseum about things being "beside the point" tiresome and use of "because that is what so and so did" weak. It doesn't do much but limit discussion and I'd appreciate it if you refrain from using that response to me in the future. Thank you.

 

[akh]

No, it is not beside the point, AKH, because it is important to me. Not everything has to fit into your scheme of how you think Lauren's disappearance should be addressed here.

A distraction? Speak for yourself. I really find your going on and on ad nauseum about things being "beside the point" tiresome and use of "because that is what so and so did" weak. It doesn't do much but limit discussion and I'd appreciate it if you refrain from using that response to me in the future. Thank you.

Re-read what I said. Maybe I worded it poorly or left too much unsaid. (EDIT: In fact I left a word out!) In any case, you took it the wrong way. In fact, I was basically agreeing with you. I was saying it's only a distraction IF he's telling the truth. And I emphasized 'if' for a reason. Not that you're distracting from the discussion. Far from it, because it's the type of thing that makes his story less credible. Especially when taken with other info that has dribbled out.

I probably should've just elaborated more in the first post.

If he's telling the truth, then she left in whatever condition she was in. Her condition doesn't matter as far as JR's guilt because in that scenario, if he's telling the truth then he did what he did (bad judgement or not). But I find it hard to believe after being injured she'd even want to continue partying (as has been reported MB claimed), let alone that she would go to JR's and not just be wanting to go home. Then you add in stories about her being unsteady on her feet, etc and it stretches things to believe his story. Not that it isn't possible, but it does make it less plausible.

Wasn't that your point?

 

[imkeylime]

But if he's telling the truth, the issue is really beside the point because that is what he did. So it doesn't get anyone closer to solving her disappearance. So then it just becomes a distraction unfortunately.

The weak part of the story to me is I don't know of too many people who get 'party injuries' where it doesn't throw cold water on their partying. Their story seems to be she was injured to some degree but not done partying. Possible but not all that plausible IMHO.

While I agree in principle, the particular "cocktail" she took could have dulled her response to pain. I know that some mixes (even Red Bull with alcohol, I believe) can cause a disconnect between the brain/body, which ups their danger.

Regardless, I don't think it's a distraction, for a number of reasons. Most importantly, if that's what happened (JR let her walk home totally inebriated), it opens the door for a different ending to the story, like someone following her or a random abduction. Just proving that she actually left JR's (and when), for instance, would be so beneficial. JMO.

 

[Snapfade]

Keylime, your post has woken me up tonight. I feel really awake, as Thelma (of Thelma and Louise) says.

I have read JR's statements again and again, but tonight they really stink. Wow. I don't care how comfortable a young woman is in her surroundings, to let her walk home alone in her condition and everything else we know about, add to that a bruised eye, not knowing how she got it is ...

:furious: UNCONSCIONABLE.

Megatroid brings up interesting point about JR's Kilroys departure time. Do we know if the path he took home ,who he was with, or if he walked. In a earlier post I was wondering if J.R. could have been at 10th & college, and CR was seeking help then.
I also wander if MB volunteer information about LS injuries to LE. If he didnt, I would consider this a form of covering for CR already.
Like Jupiter, when J.R. Inquires about LS's injuries, the alledged reply by LS is “ I Dont Know"?? There is No Way you let her walk home alone. JR saying he let her walk home seems like an Unbelivable Story more than Bad Judgement.

 

[imkeylime]

Megatroid brings up interesting point about JR's Kilroys departure time. Do we know if the path he took home ,who he was with, or if he walked. In a earlier post I was wondering if J.R. could have been at 10th & college, and CR was seeking help then.
I also wander if MB volunteer information about LS injuries to LE. If he didnt, I would consider this a form of covering for CR already.
Like Jupiter, when J.R. Inquires about LS's injuries, the alledged reply by LS is “ I Dont Know"?? There is No Way you let her walk home alone. JR saying he let her walk home seems like an Unbelivable Story more than Bad Judgement.

IMO, it's a stretch that he'd let her walk, unless he's really self-centered or was ticked off with her for some reason. I've actually considered that, BTW. I have a running conversation with my daughter about choosing friends/BFs who have your back and are stable. She's had one wake-up call (ex with anger issues). But that doesn't seem the case here, given the circumstances.

It would definitely help to know when JR left Sports ... and if he took a route with camera coverage.

 

[Jupiter812]

Megatroid brings up interesting point about JR's Kilroys departure time. Do we know if the path he took home ,who he was with, or if he walked. In a earlier post I was wondering if J.R. could have been at 10th & college, and CR was seeking help then.
I also wander if MB volunteer information about LS injuries to LE. If he didnt, I would consider this a form of covering for CR already.
Like Jupiter, when J.R. Inquires about LS's injuries, the alledged reply by LS is “ I Dont Know"?? There is No Way you let her walk home alone. JR saying he let her walk home seems like an Unbelivable Story more than Bad Judgement.

AFAIK there has been no mention in media, here, or other sites, of not only his path and with whom, but when he left Sports. He should be on on security video exiting Sports though. And FWIW JR does not seem to fit the mystery man description.

What I'm hitting up against is this: In much of the public eye, and amongst his peers no doubt, he is responsible in part (if not guilty) for her disappearance. For him to add the fact that she had a bruised eye makes him even more personally reprehensible.

I think he's probably a liar; to what extent I don't know. The bruised eye is either true or not true. So:

If true, why wouldn't he withhold this info?

If false, what does it offer the narrative of covering for self and/or others?