IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

[VeryVeritas]

Another puzzle to the mystery, IMO, is the neighbor woman whom MB allegedly told something totally different to, per the "Indianapolis Monthly" article:

"Beth’s attorney, Ron Chapman (who also represents Rohn), tells IM that Beth, an IU student, stayed in all night to work on papers due that day. Chapman also confirms that Rossman was with Spierer when she came to the apartment, and that Beth helped Rossman into bed. Valerie Sokolova, a neighbor, tells IM that Beth has said he went upstairs and, when he returned, Spierer was gone. 'That was the last time Mike and Corey saw her,' says Sokolova."

What he told Sokolova really makes me wonder about his motivation—and if he got caught up in his own lie. It would be useful to know when he told her this, i.e., if it was after JR told LE that MB called and then brought LS over. I suppose he could also just be a pathological liar. What's one to think? Her leaving while he's upstairs and him walking her to JR's are definitely contradictory.

Unless ... she did leave and someone (CR? CR and MB? JR?) went after her and brought her back. Could she have been at 5N twice that morning? And that's where the mystery man/timing discrepancy comes in? I can't exactly see this, either, but why of why would MB tell that to VS, unless to create an alibi that fell apart when JR said something that differed.

My apologies if someone has addressed this recently ... I do feel it's been brought up. Time is starting to wear me down! PS: Just typing this reaffirms to me that MB is essential to the night's story, one way or the other.

Amazing... this is exactly what I was thinking but I was having trouble remembering her name.

VS's statement now makes a lot more sense in light of MB's statement about thinking he may have been burglarized. But yes I agree with Abbey his change in story may have come about because of VS's statement which contradicted his other versions of events.

This very interesting.

If we think of CR as being focused on SA and just waiting for that opportunity...

1) At Kilroy's LS reaches a point where he feels the time is right.

2) I'm thinking that she probably didn't use her keycard to enter SW, but maybe she did... really would like to know if that is caught on video!!... At that point she still apparently was able to actually hold on to her wallet/keys so she may have opened that door. If LS used her keycard, I would have to reason she really just wanted to go home. If CR opened it, I would have to reason that he wanted to get her into her bedroom. Since that didn't work out, if CR opened it, it seems highly probable that he pocketed the keycard.

3) LS then tries to get to ZC's further indicating that with what little consciousness she had, she was trying to separate herself from CR.
Then serious head injury #1

4) CR carries LS and is seen by female bartender witness(who claims the time was 3:38). LS is alive, but not talking. This timeframe would more likely have been around 2:38.

5) LS is barely walking down that alley and makes her #2 fall face down apparently totally unconscious. This was said to be at around 2:50am.

6) LE had said that there was some "activity" after that fall. Well, all I can imagine is CR trying to pick her up, revive her, etc...

7) LS's wallet and keys are found some 20-30 ft. away to the west next to the building. 2 people who were roommates in the building near the wallet/keys saw a few minutes apart the wallet/keys (approx 3:00am) They didn't see anyone else around.

8) Now here is where I'm wondering where VS's timeframe comes in???
a) Did VS witness anything that night or was this all based on what MB told VS the next day?
b) By MB saying he went "upstairs" did he mean his own apt, or.. JR's apt?
Because my understanding was that to get to JR's one would have to go downstairs and then back upstairs to JR's. It would seem this version of events was to make it seem like HE helped CR to bed while LS wandered off.
But the phone call to JR and JR's story conflicted with that.
c) MB was attributed with saying via his lawyer that LS was helping him put CR to bed. (This made it seem like LS was in better shape than CR, which was totally opposite all other known evidence about their conditions).
AND that He tried to get LS to STAY, but that she wanted to LEAVE.
Considering CR was in SA mode, it would make a lot of sense that her wanting to leave and the commotion in MB's apt had to do with her trying to get away from CR and out of there entirely.
d) MB claimed he was home studying when CR came back with LS.
e) MB's lawyer claimed that not only did LS want to leave she also wanted to "party" more (it was this sort of thing that gave the impression that LS was conscious and in good shape which has increasingly been proven to be the opposite).
f) We have the strong possibility that CR carried her up to his room and tried to SA LS.

9) at 3:30am MB is calling JR about LS. (This tells me something happened.)

10) Shortly after 3:30am MB is bringing LS over to JR's

11) According to recent revelations from the civil case, MB not only brings LS over to JR's, he hangs around... apparently for quite a while.
MB nor JR previously mentioned this detail of MB hanging around at JR's.
JR has house guests.

12) JR is observing LS's condition as being severely injured and severely impaired. Supposedly spends more time testing her ability to walk home alone barefoot despite her serious condition, than it would take to just walk her home the 2 blocks. JR notices the only 2 items supposedly in LS's possession that she oddly did not drop or lose (SW keycard and fake ID) It makes no sense that she left everything else go and somehow managed to hang on to these 2 cards. But if CR opened the door at SW this would explain how JR saw these cards, they may not have been in LS's possession. LS was supposedly barely conscious and was mistaking an ipod for an iphone. Then JR makes 2 calls at 4:15am supposedly on LS behalf. Here we have some possibilities:
a) LS was being detained
AND/OR
b) LS was SA'd or another attempted SA by someone at or staying at JR's
AND/OR
c) there was a panic because something had already gone down.

13) about 4:30am according to JR (whatever that's worth) poof LS vanishes.
However,
a) To JW LS vanished at just before 12:30
b) To Cameras LS vanished at around 2:50am
c) About this time MB thinks he's being burglarized? How? Why?

How about this other small twist of this timeline with emphasis on possible SA... In #9) what if MB makes the call to JR about LS, but it's more about letting JR know that something is really wrong, LS is in bad shape... and says something like you better get over here. Now what if JR talks openly about the situation to DB and DB rushes right over to CR/MB's
(I do remember in one of the first confusing news reports, that described a scene as though CR/MB's and JR's were all the same place.) I think that MB having JR's phone number and making the 3:30am call about LS shows right there that they knew each rather well. So what if DB comes over and is addressing whatever situation is going on with LS... but MB goes to JR's ... or DB and JR come over to CR/MB's and then all 3 of them(carrying LS) go back to JR's. Yes, when MB returns of course LS is gone... Or, what if MB had made the call, DB and JR come over, MB gets CR to bed... comes back downstairs and not only is LS gone, however, so is everyone else. (at this point this small part of the story fits with what MB told VS) So he goes over to JR's.

Are there any facts I've overlooked that rules any of this out?

 

[Ixchel13]

Amazing... this is exactly what I was thinking but I was having trouble remembering her name.

VS's statement now makes a lot more sense in light of MB's statement about thinking he may have been burglarized. But yes I agree with Abbey his change in story may have come about because of VS's statement which contradicted his other versions of events.

This very interesting.

If we think of CR as being focused on SA and just waiting for that opportunity...

1) At Kilroy's LS reaches a point where he feels the time is right.

2) I'm thinking that she probably didn't use her keycard to enter SW, but maybe she did... really would like to know if that is caught on video!!... At that point she still apparently was able to actually hold on to her wallet/keys so she may have opened that door. If LS used her keycard, I would have to reason she really just wanted to go home. If CR opened it, I would have to reason that he wanted to get her into her bedroom. Since that didn't work out, if CR opened it, it seems highly probable that he pocketed the keycard.

3) LS then tries to get to ZC's further indicating that with what little consciousness she had, she was trying to separate herself from CR.
Then serious head injury #1

4) CR carries LS and is seen by female bartender witness(who claims the time was 3:38). LS is alive, but not talking. This timeframe would more likely have been around 2:38.

5) LS is barely walking down that alley and makes her #2 fall face down apparently totally unconscious. This was said to be at around 2:50am.

6) LE had said that there was some "activity" after that fall. Well, all I can imagine is CR trying to pick her up, revive her, etc...

7) LS's wallet and keys are found some 20-30 ft. away to the west next to the building. 2 people who were roommates in the building near the wallet/keys saw a few minutes apart the wallet/keys (approx 3:00am) They didn't see anyone else around.

8) Now here is where I'm wondering where VS's timeframe comes in???
a) Did VS witness anything that night or was this all based on what MB told VS the next day?
b) By MB saying he went "upstairs" did he mean his own apt, or.. JR's apt?
Because my understanding was that to get to JR's one would have to go downstairs and then back upstairs to JR's. It would seem this version of events was to make it seem like HE helped CR to bed while LS wandered off.
But the phone call to JR and JR's story conflicted with that.
c) MB was attributed with saying via his lawyer that LS was helping him put CR to bed. (This made it seem like LS was in better shape than CR, which was totally opposite all other known evidence about their conditions).
AND that He tried to get LS to STAY, but that she wanted to LEAVE.
Considering CR was in SA mode, it would make a lot of sense that her wanting to leave and the commotion in MB's apt had to do with her trying to get away from CR and out of there entirely.
d) MB claimed he was home studying when CR came back with LS.
e) MB's lawyer claimed that not only did LS want to leave she also wanted to "party" more (it was this sort of thing that gave the impression that LS was conscious and in good shape which has increasingly been proven to be the opposite).
f) We have the strong possibility that CR carried her up to his room and tried to SA LS.

9) at 3:30am MB is calling JR about LS. (This tells me something happened.)

10) Shortly after 3:30am MB is bringing LS over to JR's

11) According to recent revelations from the civil case, MB not only brings LS over to JR's, he hangs around... apparently for quite a while.
MB nor JR previously mentioned this detail of MB hanging around at JR's.
JR has house guests.

12) JR is observing LS's condition as being severely injured and severely impaired. Supposedly spends more time testing her ability to walk home alone barefoot despite her serious condition, than it would take to just walk her home the 2 blocks. JR notices the only 2 items supposedly in LS's possession that she oddly did not drop or lose (SW keycard and fake ID) It makes no sense that she left everything else go and somehow managed to hang on to these 2 cards. But if CR opened the door at SW this would explain how JR saw these cards, they may not have been in LS's possession. LS was supposedly barely conscious and was mistaking an ipod for an iphone. Then JR makes 2 calls at 4:15am supposedly on LS behalf. Here we have some possibilities:
a) LS was being detained
AND/OR
b) LS was SA'd or another attempted SA by someone at or staying at JR's
AND/OR
c) there was a panic because something had already gone down.

13) about 4:30am according to JR (whatever that's worth) poof LS vanishes.
However,
a) To JW LS vanished at just before 12:30
b) To Cameras LS vanished at around 2:50am
c) About this time MB thinks he's being burglarized? How? Why?

How about this other small twist of this timeline with emphasis on possible SA... In #9) what if MB makes the call to JR about LS, but it's more about letting JR know that something is really wrong, LS is in bad shape... and says something like you better get over here. Now what if JR talks openly about the situation to DB and DB rushes right over to CR/MB's
(I do remember in one of the first confusing news reports, that described a scene as though CR/MB's and JR's were all the same place.) I think that MB having JR's phone number and making the 3:30am call about LS shows right there that they knew each rather well. So what if DB comes over and is addressing whatever situation is going on with LS... but MB goes to JR's ... or DB and JR come over to CR/MB's and then all 3 of them(carrying LS) go back to JR's. Yes, when MB returns of course LS is gone... Or, what if MB had made the call, DB and JR come over, MB gets CR to bed... comes back downstairs and not only is LS gone, however, so is everyone else. (at this point this small part of the story fits with what MB told VS) So he goes over to JR's.

Are there any facts I've overlooked that rules any of this out?

just the fact that most of these 13 points are composed of POI narrative, I thought we thought they are liars. How can we not believe what they say about what happened to Lauren, and yet believe what they say about what led up to her demise? That's confusing.

Relying on the idea that they are telling half-truths is not solid reasoning. For example, MB may be totally making up the burglar thing for what reason, we don't know, maybe to place himself somewhere else because he did a bump of something (adderall? klonopin?) with
CR when he got back. So he had a paper due--the fact that it can be verified has no bearing on whether he was really working on it, etc. We can't rely on them telling us kinda what happened, they could be lying about anything, and we don't know why.

Just wanted to add, HT and AR are on the witness lists, so I'm guessing they were around that night. And I notice the Spierers want individuals present at SW before and during the
altercation, so perhaps they are interested in how Lauren came to leave, after she was home. Yes, CR took her out, but why?

Also the SA. Not convinced that CR intended solely to "assault" Lauren. And also, why do some people simply refuse to entertain the idea he was taking her to her apt? It's 3 a.m., they enter her building, go up to her floor, why must everyone keep saying he wasn't taking her home? Just because ZO said he told CR to take her to her room? Because a person guilty of criminal assault says he said something, all the sudden we won't accept something right in front of our noses? Regardless of being a cad, they were out and about, going here and there, and then, they were on her floor near her apt. Someone trying to bum rush a girl would say, "hey, let's keep going, you're drunk out of your mind, let me take you to my place" and it would have been easy. He's still guilty of duty of care, but SA? Not sure, seems like someone else did it.

 

[AbbeyR]

Good post, VV. It's helpful to think about the timeline that way.

I was just thinking about your comments about the keycard:

2) I'm thinking that she probably didn't use her keycard to enter SW, but maybe she did... really would like to know if that is caught on video!!... At that point she still apparently was able to actually hold on to her wallet/keys so she may have opened that door. If LS used her keycard, I would have to reason she really just wanted to go home. If CR opened it, I would have to reason that he wanted to get her into her bedroom. Since that didn't work out, if CR opened it, it seems highly probable that he pocketed the keycard.

I thought I remembered something about Corey having the card, but it's been so long, I can't remember where it came from, so maybe it was just speculation. Doing a quick search came up with two somewhat leading statements from Ernie Reno, the spokesperson for Smallwood:

Describing the keycard data and surveillance video turned over to LE:

"Whose card was used? You know, how did, if she didn't have her card, how did she access the building," Reno explained.

http://www.wthr.com/story/14886013/...-been-banned-from-spierers-apartment-building

"It's one more piece to the puzzle, and whether or not Lauren had her card at that time, we don't know, but perhaps someone else did that may have been with her or whatever, and we can track it that way, so we're hopeful that something will be found," Reno said.

http://www.wthr.com/story/14879549/key-card-swipes-may-hold-clues-in-the-disappearance-of-iu-student

This was early on though... Given the descriptions of the video surveillance at Smallwood, I'm sure they know exactly who used the card and what happened at Smallwood. If the card was actually at JR's, as he claims, my guess would be that Corey was carrying it, since Lauren had lost her purse (and everything else) by that point.

 

[imkeylime]

... Also the SA. Not convinced that CR intended solely to "assault" Lauren. And also, why do some people simply refuse to entertain the idea he was taking her to her apt? It's 3 a.m., they enter her building, go up to her floor, why must everyone keep saying he wasn't taking her home? Just because ZO said he told CR to take her to her room? Because a person guilty of criminal assault says he said something, all the sudden we won't accept something right in front of our noses? Regardless of being a cad, they were out and about, going here and there, and then, they were on her floor near her apt. Someone trying to bum rush a girl would say, "hey, let's keep going, you're drunk out of your mind, let me take you to my place" and it would have been easy. He's still guilty of duty of care, but SA? Not sure, seems like someone else did it.

While it seems probable to me that CR was interested in hooking up with LS that night, it's also possible he himself wasn't in the condition to do so or that he just didn't. I don't think we can determine this based on what little we know. What we do know is that if CR did actually pass out, LS would have been left alone with MB and eventually JR and DB (and ???). And if he didn't pass out ... well, she'd pretty much have been by herself in an intoxicated state with all of them, I guess.

I realize that we really don't know if anything illicit occurred. That said, LS' condition definitely would have left her vulnerable. That's what worries me the most.

IMO, there was a plan when CR and LS left Kilroy's for SW. I don't think we can determine exactly what that plan was or if one party was directing it. At that point, maybe they did intend to get something to continue partying with, but then LS was overcome from whatever (klonopin was fully kicking in, combined with alcohol, etc). Attempting to go somewhere and getting there are two different things at times. However, it seems plausible that CR (or whomever) might have taken advantage of the situation that unfolded.

 

[imkeylime]

I've wondered the same things... there are so many contradictions in MB's stories, almost every statement raises serious questions.

The PIs implied that the guys at 5 N didn't have their stories straight and that there were many discrepancies. I think it's possible there were contradictions in the accounts in the first hours/ days after Lauren went missing, particularly because of what seems like a conscientious effort to distance themselves from each other.

I hope that the Spierers can get some more information that will help them make sense of these stories and what happened to Lauren.

I can't believe it's been almost three years.

So I've been sitting here pondering the idea of a SA, which is hard to not consider, of course (I should be doing dishes). And I realized there's one other story that MB told, about CR vomiting on the carpet on the way upstairs. It could have happened, as CR was also partying that night. I know others have raised the possibility that LS was the one throwing up, though I'd expect BPD to have checked that kind of thing out.

But could it be that MB and/or CR cleaned something up on the stairs, i.e., eradicating evidence, and the vomiting story was a sort of cover?

If one were to believe MB's story to VS ... that LS left while he was putting CR to bed ... the vomiting might fit in, as it would cause a delay. That doesn't mean I believe this version of the story ... just that I'm wondering why MB would have shared that particular detail. I'm also interested in how it might fit into Veritas' possible timeline of the night (if it indeed happened).

It's odd how "vocal" he was, compared to CR, who can't remember anything, and even JR, who allegedly saw her last.

 

[Mahouston69]

Some people over explain, and include irrelevant details to try and show credibility.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[imkeylime]

Some people over explain, and include irrelevant details to try and show credibility.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

True. I myself tend to talk too much when I'm nervous. Another possibility?

 

[Ixchel13]

True. I myself tend to talk too much when I'm nervous. Another possibility?

another possibility--MB was involved, right in the middle of it. He's getting off duty of care, they can't prove he gave her anything, and he has convinced
a judge he tried to help her as much as he should have.
But he is the link between amnesia and last to see. So before MB, no one can remember what happened to Lauren between 2:40 and when she walked
out JR's door (supposedly). He could, and might have, made up anything.
Right now, we are working on maybe he did come downstairs and find her gone. I think maybe she really wanted to make contact with the residents of ZC's apt for some reason. If she did make contact, of course that would make ZC telling a lie, maybe someone called/texted up at JR's, by then MB would have gone over there to see if she was there, and they (JR or MB) told them to bring Lauren back up. Very, very short distance. IMO, it is then that Lauren smacked her head.
Perhaps while MB was upstairs, Lauren went over to JRs, picked up a friend there and went right back down to 10th and C. Maybe even the sobriety test was given at this time by JR, not later. It would make sense, especially if the friend was from out of town, for the person to bring
her back to JR's where he was originally. Maybe even at this point, someone put her in a car instead of calling for help , so she never actually went back into JR's.
During this time, someone at 10th and College could have called JW. It's almost impossible to think that someone didn't notify JW. In this scenario, Lauren is in a car, with a serious head injury, drugged and intoxicated, possibly unconscious. Someone has to make a decision. Who made that decision?
It doesn't have to be sexual assault. Just the idea of everyone involved lives' being disrupted, possibly ruined, would be enough.

 

[sammi89]

So I've been sitting here pondering the idea of a SA, which is hard to not consider, of course (I should be doing dishes). And I realized there's one other story that MB told, about CR vomiting on the carpet on the way upstairs. It could have happened, as CR was also partying that night. I know others have raised the possibility that LS was the one throwing up, though I'd expect BPD to have checked that kind of thing out.

But could it be that MB and/or CR cleaned something up on the stairs, i.e., eradicating evidence, and the vomiting story was a sort of cover?

If one were to believe MB's story to VS ... that LS left while he was putting CR to bed ... the vomiting might fit in, as it would cause a delay. That doesn't mean I believe this version of the story ... just that I'm wondering why MB would have shared that particular detail. I'm also interested in how it might fit into Veritas' possible timeline of the night (if it indeed happened).

It's odd how "vocal" he was, compared to CR, who can't remember anything, and even JR, who allegedly saw her last.

I've been thinking a little on this and I still find it problematic that LS was up on her feet running off without MB or CR noticing in her alleged condition.

I find it hard enough to believe that LS recovered by the time JR claims she did. I find it even harder to believe that she would have recovered sooner than that. :twocents:

IMO, if VS' story is accurate, it sounds like they hadn't gotten their stories straight. JMO.

 

[imkeylime]

I've been thinking a little on this and I still find it problematic that LS was up on her feet running off without MB or CR noticing in her alleged condition.

I find it hard enough to believe that LS recovered by the time JR claims she did. I find it even harder to believe that she would have recovered sooner than that. :twocents:

IMO, if VS' story is accurate, it sounds like they hadn't gotten their stories straight. JMO.

I agree ... I actually thought it might have been LS vomiting on the stairs, but TBH, I can't see her staggering up the stairs, either. Just saying ...

 

[LongTallTexan]

I believe that horrific night was a matter of unfinished business carried over from Indy 500 only a few days before. Does anyone know who all was there? Was JW at Indy with LS or was she with her other friends and this is where she meets CR. The motive (interest) that CR has started at Indy and I believe he had a plan that night to hook up with her, as he stated he had "designs" for her...I believe he even has JR call LS to entice her to come over rather than him doing it himself. Once there, he isolates her, stops off at his apt, heads to Kilroys, etc.
If I'm a PI, I'm finding out from the others that were around the party at Indy to find out what was going on, what the social aspect of that party, what was happening and who was with who? ....there is sooooo much we just don't know.

I realize that the night took a turn for the worse, the question is what happened after? What happened after she was seen in the alley, but I find it hard to believe there are not others or witnesses that have some information as to how that night began, and just maybe that may lead to how it ended.

 

[sammi89]

I agree ... I actually thought it might have been LS vomiting on the stairs, but TBH, I can't see her staggering up the stairs, either. Just saying ...

Was it on the stairs? I agree, I don't think she would be climbing the stairs either if CR was carrying her back to his place just minutes before. I can see him maybe hauling her up the stairs though. Was his bedroom upstairs?

If he was carrying her inside and upstairs, maybe CR didn't bother shutting the front door all the way?

Has it been made clear exactly how long CR and LS were alone before MB went back?

 

[sammi89]

I believe that horrific night was a matter of unfinished business carried over from Indy 500 only a few days before. Does anyone know who all was there? Was JW at Indy with LS or was she with her other friends and this is where she meets CR. The motive (interest) that CR has started at Indy and I believe he had a plan that night to hook up with her, as he stated he had "designs" for her...I believe he even has JR call LS to entice her to come over rather than him doing it himself. Once there, he isolates her, stops off at his apt, heads to Kilroys, etc.
If I'm a PI, I'm finding out from the others that were around the party at Indy to find out what was going on, what the social aspect of that party, what was happening and who was with who? ....there is sooooo much we just don't know.

I realize that the night took a turn for the worse, the question is what happened after? What happened after she was seen in the alley, but I find it hard to believe there are not others or witnesses that have some information as to how that night began, and just maybe that may lead to how it ended.

IIRC, JW was not at the Indy 500.

I think your analysis is a real possibility. Just to add, I'm not entirely sure if LS was interested in hooking up or just liked the attention or was just being nice/friendly. I do think that if he had previously expressed his interest in hooking up with her, she would have had the opportunity before this particular night and it sounds like she hadn't, based on her friends insisting that LS and CR had just met. It just doesn't sound like she was talking about him to her girlfriends. If they hadn't been hanging since, it's weird that the next time they hang out solo, she goes missing, IMO.

 

[imkeylime]

Was it on the stairs? I agree, I don't think she would be climbing the stairs either if CR was carrying her back to his place just minutes before. I can see him maybe hauling her up the stairs though. Was his bedroom upstairs?

If he was carrying her inside and upstairs, maybe CR didn't bother shutting the front door all the way?

Has it been made clear exactly how long CR and LS were alone before MB went back?

I did read that it was on the stairs, but TBH, I don't know if the source is legitimate. That's a problem that I'm starting to encounter ... so much is out there, and it's also starting to be "compiled" from various sources, I believe. I'll try to verify it. A carpet would be harder to clean than a tile floor, obviously ... I wonder if LE would have picked up on something like that?

I'm not sure about the timeframe ...

 

[imkeylime]

IIRC, JW was not at the Indy 500.

I think your analysis is a real possibility. Just to add, I'm not entirely sure if LS was interested in hooking up or just liked the attention or was just being nice/friendly. I do think that if he had previously expressed his interest in hooking up with her, she would have had the opportunity before this particular night and it sounds like she hadn't, based on her friends insisting that LS and CR had just met. It just doesn't sound like she was talking about him to her girlfriends. If they hadn't been hanging since, it's weird that the next time they hang out solo, she goes missing, IMO.

IMO, it's entirely possible that she was just a social person who got in over her head with the wrong guy. But it's not unheard of for a young woman her age to perhaps keep her options open, which doesn't imply that she wanted to hook up, either.

I really do see more young women with boyfriends who also have guy friends nowadays vs. when I was dating. Actually, I'm not sure if "dating" even exists anymore. It seems like there's chilling, hooking up, and going out. I think my daughter would say that LS and CR were chilling, though CR probably wanted to hook up. LS and JW, OTOH, were going out. FWIW!

 

[Ros]

Something I was curious about. The summer session was ending and students going home. I think JW had graduated but the 5N guys were coming back. So, my question is, would they keep their furniture in the apts till they returned or send them home? If they sent them home would they rent a truck and move by themselves or hire a moving company? Since JW's father came to Btown and they left shortly there after would they have moved themselves or hired it done?

From my experience, students do not usually take furniture back home. If the furniture is not rented, they may keep it in their current apartment or put it in storage. In some cases they may just dump the furniture.

 

[imkeylime]

Was it on the stairs? I agree, I don't think she would be climbing the stairs either if CR was carrying her back to his place just minutes before. I can see him maybe hauling her up the stairs though. Was his bedroom upstairs?

If he was carrying her inside and upstairs, maybe CR didn't bother shutting the front door all the way?

Has it been made clear exactly how long CR and LS were alone before MB went back?

According to the link below (Lohud article), "Rossman stumbled, vomiting on the carpet as he walked upstairs. That’s when Beth said he escorted him to bed."

http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use

It's on page 4 of the article. I agree that it could very well be something concocted to add credibility to the story ...

 

[akh]

If CR is a friend of JR and lives in the same apartment complex, and LS is friends with JR and in the same clique, then how is it it took until the end of the school year for her to meet CR? Is that really likely? Or does 'meet' have a different meaning in this context and mean that was the first time they'd spent time together?

Further, do we know CR and LS weren't together in any form at all between the Indy 500 and the night she disappeared? No phone contact in that period or even prior?

Those are some things I'd like to know the answer to. Not just some spin from a friend of both JW and LS that may or may not just be public spin to not let a cat out of the bag (either to clue JW in or to not make LS/JW personally or their relationship look bad to the public).

 

[sammi89]

If CR is a friend of JR and lives in the same apartment complex, and LS is friends with JR and in the same clique, then how is it it took until the end of the school year for her to meet CR? Is that really likely? Or does 'meet' have a different meaning in this context and mean that was the first time they'd spent time together?

Further, do we know CR and LS weren't together in any form at all between the Indy 500 and the night she disappeared? No phone contact in that period or even prior?

Those are some things I'd like to know the answer to. Not just some spin from a friend of both JW and LS that may or may not just be public spin to not let a cat out of the bag (either to clue JW in or to not make LS/JW personally or their relationship look bad to the public).

I can understand finding it surprising, but IMO, there's no reason to doubt it.

I'm not sure that LS was necessarily part of JR's clique. I think HT was, and LS was sometimes with her. The extent of JR and LS' friendship has been disputed, notably by the Spierers themselves. HT has also described herself as the connector between the two.

Regardless, this is one of few things that checking phone records and any kind of Internet trail can probably confirm easily - did LS and CR just recently start texting/calling/friending each other?

The Spierers have hired their own PI and they seem to believe that CR and LS were recent acquaintances, which they have consistently described him as (and JR). LE has never given a reason to question this either. While I would hope that LS' friends wouldn't lie given the situation, both HT and ZC have also agreed on this point, and they were friends with the 5N set too.

HT:
http://www.examiner.com/article/what-lauren-spierer-s-friend-and-roommate-is-telling-us

Lauren went to Kilroy Sports Bar where she ran into Corey Rossman, a fellow student she barely knew and had only met once before, at the Indianapolis 500, when she and Hadar were introduced to Corey and Corey’s roommate Mike Beth by Jay Rosenbaum, a "close friend" of Hadars.

ZC:
https://www.google.com/search?q=“Co...rome..69i57.1931j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

“Corey introduced me to her as a girl he had met the previous weekend at the Indy 500 car race,” she wrote

I would also add that ZC's is especially important - she wrote to defend CR and even she says they had just met, which IMO supports LongTallTexan's proposed theory that someone else probably contacted LS to come over, probably JR.

Note: Sorry that's the best I can do on the ZC link. I can't seem to access the original and I can't find a copy of the entire article anywhere else, but it's the same May 31st article linked to in earlier threads. Maybe if someone has a paid subscription to Lohud they can look up the rest of the article not posted elsewhere?

 

[sammi89]

IMO, it's entirely possible that she was just a social person who got in over her head with the wrong guy. But it's not unheard of for a young woman her age to perhaps keep her options open, which doesn't imply that she wanted to hook up, either.

I really do see more young women with boyfriends who also have guy friends nowadays vs. when I was dating. Actually, I'm not sure if "dating" even exists anymore. It seems like there's chilling, hooking up, and going out. I think my daughter would say that LS and CR were chilling, though CR probably wanted to hook up. LS and JW, OTOH, were going out. FWIW!

Can you explain what you mean by "dating?" I think those descriptions are probably accurate though. My friends normally say someone is "talking" to someone else instead of "chilling" but I think they mean the same in this context? Hooking up for my friends has usually meant seeing someone without being exclusive, regardless if one or both wanted it to go further or not. My friends and I do refer to "going out" as "dating" if two people are exclusive though.

There's a lot of space for extra stuff and some people may view the above differently, but that's been my experience. For example, I have a friend who has been dating her boyfriend "exclusively" for two years now but she says they sometimes are cool with each other hooking up with other people if they OK it first lol.

My impression is that CR thought they were "talking" and there was the possibility of "hooking up." I'm not sure how LS viewed it. IMO, I think she knew she could hook up with him if she wanted to, and if she chose not to between the Indy 500 and this particular night, it's weird that she also disappeared. JMO!

I do think that LS and JW were dating/going out exclusively for at least some part of their relationship, but it's always possible they themselves had different things they were okay with the other doing, one/both of them had cheated at some point during the relationship, breaking up/getting back together periodically, especially during the rumored "rocky patch." Not judging either party if true - it's very normal in my experience. I also would not be surprised if she kept her options open - many of my friends have been dating someone and met someone that made them question their relationship. It's definitely not uncommon.