Ixchel13
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ZC was defending JR mostly
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33
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ZC was defending JR mostly
In my neck of the woods ... and the age group I see (18-21) ... chilling is hanging out, to do whatever. So basically they were chilling at JR's. In my day (I'm pretty old, LOL), you could go on a date to get to know someone ... and even go on a date with a different person the same week. That doesn't happen much anymore. Actually, I think dating does now imply going out exclusively. :!
As for hooking up, the connotation I know means sleeping together but not necessarily going out (read casual sex that could lead to going out or not). Maybe that's just in my locale ... IDK.
IMO, it's possible that LS and CR did text after Indy but not hang out. Texting is so prevalent and accepted; I just wouldn't be surprised. I don't even think it would mean she was interested in him as anything more than a friend. It appears she had male friends ... DR, for example.
What's problematic, IMO, is what CR possibly wanted.
Ixchel13
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[modsnip]
[modsnip]
here's the question I have asked many times, did she go back to 10th and College, not SW, to continue the altercation because now someone was there and possibly had something of hers? there wasa reason Lauren wanted to stop at 10th and C, IMO and then she smacked her head there after later going back there.
Let's address why the head smack is not on video, when the PIs describe them on camera the whole time they were trying to get in ZC's apt. So, IMO, the bartender saw a different thing entirely then what was on video with CR. For example, the PIs don't describe seeing anyone ask them if they were ok, he said they were sitting on the steps, then get up and start making their way up the alley, knock on the door
and then CR picks her up, not at all the way the bartender describes it. When the PI describes it, he says they started making their way up the alley and knocked on a door. Then, Corey picks her up and carries her over his shoulder. And he describes Lauren as very much alive and well, says something about he doesn't know about the well part ,corrects himself. But it seems like he's saying, she was obviously alive when CR was carrying her, not unconscious as people have suggested.
So during this time at 10th and C, she is conscious, isn't seen smacking her head on video, and walks a little before CR picks her up. In the other scenario, the bartenders scenario, she is sitting on the steps, smacks her head very hard, and then a man who does not fit CR's description in any way,
says he'll take care of it, slings her over his shoulder, because the witness is saying she isn't responding or talking, and then...then...good question, where does this guy head with her? Up the street, which he still could get in 10th and College at the north end, or, up the alley?
PIs see them going up the alley, but yet again, I have to say that they could not, impossible, to knock on a door in the alley. So I just don't see how these two sitings could be the same event.
[modsnip]
here's the question I have asked many times, did she go back to 10th and College, not SW, to continue the altercation because now someone was there and possibly had something of hers? there wasa reason Lauren wanted to stop at 10th and C, IMO and then she smacked her head there after later going back there.
Let's address why the head smack is not on video, when the PIs describe them on camera the whole time they were trying to get in ZC's apt. So, IMO, the bartender saw a different thing entirely then what was on video with CR. For example, the PIs don't describe seeing anyone ask them if they were ok, he said they were sitting on the steps, then get up and start making their way up the alley, knock on the door
and then CR picks her up, not at all the way the bartender describes it. When the PI describes it, he says they started making their way up the alley and knocked on a door. Then, Corey picks her up and carries her over his shoulder. And he describes Lauren as very much alive and well, says something about he doesn't know about the well part ,corrects himself. But it seems like he's saying, she was obviously alive when CR was carrying her, not unconscious as people have suggested.
So during this time at 10th and C, she is conscious, isn't seen smacking her head on video, and walks a little before CR picks her up. In the other scenario, the bartenders scenario, she is sitting on the steps, smacks her head very hard, and then a man who does not fit CR's description in any way,
says he'll take care of it, slings her over his shoulder, because the witness is saying she isn't responding or talking, and then...then...good question, where does this guy head with her? Up the street, which he still could get in 10th and College at the north end, or, up the alley?
PIs see them going up the alley, but yet again, I have to say that they could not, impossible, to knock on a door in the alley. So I just don't see how these two sitings could be the same event.
ZC was friends with all three of them. I didn't read the article that way, but even so, what is your point? Genuinely asking. It doesn't appear to detract from CR introducing LS as a girl he had just met.
http://archive.lohud.com/flash/spierer/
They investigators do not say that CR knocked on ZC's door from the alley. They say they went inside the building. They knocked on ZC's actual door. The investigators describe CR emerging from the apartment building with her slung across his back "a minute later" so it wasn't like they were there long enough to do much.
That is probably why the Spierers want the footage from that apartment too.
ETA: Watching the video again has made that small part of the night easier to under, for me at least. I think that the reporting on this part has been sloppy.
They investigators do not say that CR knocked on ZC's door from the alley. They say they went inside the building. They knocked on ZC's actual door. The investigators describe CR emerging from the apartment building with her slung across his back "a minute later" so it wasn't like they were there long enough to do much.
That is probably why the Spierers want the footage from that apartment too.
ETA: Watching the video again has made that small part of the night easier to under, for me at least. I think that the reporting on this part has been sloppy.
I agree, they probably at least friended each other on facebook. I wouldn't be surprised if they had exchanged numbers to text, but I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't either. If she had an iPhone or some other smartphone with the facebook app, facebook messaging is practically another form of texting since it would be delivered to her phone too. Regardless, I think most of these avenues could have been checked by LE using her phone or laptop as long as she didn't delete any texts or messages (or someone else didn't.).
I don't know why there is an assumption that the fall is not captured on video. I don't think this is stated by the private investigators or LE...?
The part about the witness seeing (and hearing) Lauren fall and then Corey slinging her over his shoulder is described in the LoHud video and timeline.
Ftr, part of the video is transcribed here, if that helps: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7997448&highlight=transcribed#post7997448
Here's a snippet:
And, for comparison: As told by Gatto (who confirmed the PIs were talking about the same witness he interviewed)
Edited to add: And as I quoted in post #57
The part about the witness seeing (and hearing) Lauren fall and then Corey slinging her over his shoulder is described in the LoHud video and timeline.
Ftr, part of the video is transcribed here, if that helps: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7997448&highlight=transcribed#post7997448
Here's a snippet:
And, for comparison: As told by Gatto (who confirmed the PIs were talking about the same witness he interviewed)
Edited to add: And as I quoted in post #57
Thanks Abbey. I hadn't realized you had transcribed this particular video (or forgot, also possible lol). I know you provided a snippet but I just wanted to again bold one particular point since it keeps coming up:
Thank you for taking the time to transcribe that. I kept rewinding it to make sure I understood it correctly and am glad I won't have to in the future!
I'm not sure whether the "but no one's home" was a misstatement or not though. Regardless, they weren't inside the building very long.
I still think this might be where things started going downhill quickly.
For clarification (Thanks):
There are two videos w LS that have been reported in MSM from activities from that night/early am. These are the videos referred to by BPD and the PI show/transcripts.
The first video is LS and CS entering SM, then altercation, then elevator slump, then leaving SW..and does this video catch them walking towards???·····
Second video shows them entering?? doing something in the alley?? but shows for sure CR carrying her over shoulder, alive, exiting alley toward. .gravel lot?? but in direction of 5N.
And two separate witnesses.
One at 10th and College clock.. who asks if help is needed, LS is with reported "dark skinned man", LS is being carried.
Second is bar manager going to apts to visit boy when she sees and witness steps head smacking on concrete with audible thud.
This is how I understand the video and witness reporting. Perhaps we can correct, elaborate, pinpoint times.
There are two videos w LS that have been reported in MSM from activities from that night/early am. These are the videos referred to by BPD and the PI show/transcripts.
The first video is LS and CS entering SM, then altercation, then elevator slump, then leaving SW..and does this video catch them walking towards???·····
Second video shows them entering?? doing something in the alley?? but shows for sure CR carrying her over shoulder, alive, exiting alley toward. .gravel lot?? but in direction of 5N.
And two separate witnesses.
One at 10th and College clock.. who asks if help is needed, LS is with reported "dark skinned man", LS is being carried.
Second is bar manager going to apts to visit boy when she sees and witness steps head smacking on concrete with audible thud.
This is how I understand the video and witness reporting. Perhaps we can correct, elaborate, pinpoint times.
Ixchel13
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^all this to say,head smack is not captured on video. They can cobble the story together, add the witness in, stir the pot, but the head smack is not captured on video, and the more I hear and read the PIs account, I am wondering yet again if they have seen the video!:twocents::twocents:
Ixchel13
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yes, yes. For one thing, the PIs have Lauren falling before they knock on ZC's door, and everyone else thinks of her as falling face forward AFTER emerging from the alley and heading towards 5N. Big, huge discrepancy there.
I'm still confused as to what information there is that suggests there is not video surveillance of any particular point described.
There are not two witnesses. The snippet from the witness that I posted from Gatto is the bar manager witness. The man she saw with Lauren is the one that she described as 'dark skinned' (He wrote one small blog post about this - the information is all in the same post). The same witness is the one described in the transcript from the private investigators, who make it clear the man is Corey Rossman.
Edited to add: Maybe part of the confusion is that the article and the video are slightly different? The article that goes along with the LoHud video that I transcribed above has a few more details and clearly identifies CR:
http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use
There are not two witnesses. The snippet from the witness that I posted from Gatto is the bar manager witness. The man she saw with Lauren is the one that she described as 'dark skinned' (He wrote one small blog post about this - the information is all in the same post). The same witness is the one described in the transcript from the private investigators, who make it clear the man is Corey Rossman.
Edited to add: Maybe part of the confusion is that the article and the video are slightly different? The article that goes along with the LoHud video that I transcribed above has a few more details and clearly identifies CR:
http://archive.lohud.com/article/20...ered-away-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use
Thanks all for clarifying,expounding. In my mind, my interpretation, mine only, I thought there were two witnesses. So the girl who looked at the big clock, ... is the same person that heard the steps head smack?
I'm actually not sure where the info about the big clock came from. Do you (or does anyone else) remember? It's not in either of the reported descriptions about the witness (I don't think?), although I do think this was in reference to the same (bar manager) witness, since the idea was that she was supposedly certain about the time because she looked at the big clock.
What I don't know is whether this was a guess that came up in conversation here, or whether someone actually reported the witness saying this. Maybe someone else knows the source?
In any case, the witness described by Gatto and the witness described by the private investigators are the same person (they are describing the same thing, but this was also confirmed by Gatto here on WS). The only other witnesses that I am aware of (after CR and LS left Kilroy's) are the group of students at Smallwood who were involved in/ witnessed the altercation on the 5th floor between Corey and ZO.
bessie
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The witness noting the time on the "big clock" was speculation. I'll fetch a link.
ETA: A few examples of how the "big clock" became a part of the story.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Vidocq
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I just joined Websleuths, so I don't know how much of this has already been mentioned. But I thought I might share my thoughts on this case, as someone who lives in Bloomington, is interested in investigation, and has been recently reading and thinking about this case.
When thinking about this case, I take as my starting point, a witness uncovered by blogger Tony Gatto. The witness was a manager at a local bar, who told Gatto, and the police, that she saw a woman matching Spierer's description, get stopped by a man as the woman was walking past Tenth & College Apartments. (The facade of these apartments is directly on the route Spierer would have been traveling, if walking from her allegedly last known indoor location (5North Townhomes) to her place of residence (Smallwood).)
The witness states that the woman matching Spierer's description was lifted by the man, flung over his shoulder, and carried away. As I recall, there is a big digital clock attached to that apartment building, which would explain how the witness could be insistent, that she saw this occur at exactly 3:38.
My next entry point, into constructing a theory about this case, concerns the identity of the young man who punched Corey Rossman. Private investigators hired by the Spierer family identify who the puncher was, as reported by the Journal News. Since, as far as I know, the puncher was not publicly identified as a person of interest by the police, I'll refer to him only by his initials: ZO. According to rumors, ZO, at least at the time of Lauren's disappearance, was a major cocaine dealer on IU campus.
As those familiar with the timeline are aware, Rossman and Spierer, coming from Kilroy's Sport's Bar, arrived at Smallwood Apartments at 2:30 am and were there for about ten minutes, during which time Rossman was punched by someone (ZO), on the fifth floor. Rossman, at that point, according to him, lost his memory, not to regain it again for the rest of the night.
The pair then traveled through an alley, to Rossman's place at 5North Townhomes (two blocks away), presumably arriving there around 3 am. (Along the way, they stopped into Tenth & College Apartments, to look for some girls that apparently weren't home.) According to Jason Rosenbaum (Rossman's neighbor at 5N, who also knew Spierer) Spierer moved from Rossman's apartment to his, after Mike Beth, supposedly, put a blacked-out and vomiting Corey Rossman to bed. Rosenbaum, famously claims that Spierer then left his apartment, at 4:30 am, him watching from his balcony, as she walked down to College Ave, and turned right, headed toward Smallwood.
The last crucial piece of the puzzle, for my theory, is the phone calls. There is a 3:30 call from Beth to Rosenbaum. Then there are two calls, between 4 am and 4:30, from Rosenbaum's phone to Rohn (an acquaintance of Spierer's from Smallwood) and to a second unknown person.
So here's one way, it seems to me, to fit all of this together (hypothetically and theoretically speaking): Rossman and Spierer arrive at 5North at 3 am. Beth takes 30 minutes to wrangle his drunk, vomiting roommate (Rossman) into bed. During this time, Spierer gets tired of waiting and wanders away, heading back down College Ave. This would take her right past Tenth & College Apts. at just the right time for the bar manager to see her, at 3:38. Then the mystery man picks her up and disappears with her, let's say into Tenth & College.
Now, this is interesting: according to my investigation, ZO, at that time, was living in an apartment on the 3rd floor of Tenth & College Apts! According to Gatto, the witness described the mystery man as, "dark-skinned, about 5 feet, nine inches, 160 pounds, defined facial bone-structure and pointed, thin, rounded sideburns. ...wearing a polo-style shirt". This does not fit with a description of ZO. However, also according to my investigation, ZO had a roommate at the time, initials AB, that arguably does fit this description.
So, again speaking hypothetically and theoretically, let's say that Mike Beth finishes putting Rossman to bed, and comes out to find that Spierer has vanished. Let us further suppose that Rosenbaum, AB, and others are at a party at ZO's apartment, without ZO actually being present for all of it. This would explain Beth's call to Rosenbaum at 3:30: he calls and says something like, "Hey Lauren just wandered out of my apartment. She must be headed to Smallwood. She's barely mobile. Would someday check and see if she's walking past Tenth & College right now, and if she's okay?"
So, at this point, say somebody goes out the back to look, and AB goes out the College Ave. side of the building, just in time to find Lauren, and be witnessed by the bar manager, picking her up and carrying her into Tenth & College. According to this theory then, she dies in ZO and AB's apartment, sometime between 3:38 and around 4 am, Friday, June 3rd, due to some combination of drugs, alcohol, her heart problem, falling down and striking her head, or maybe something more sinister. Rosenbaum is still at the party when this happens, let's suppose. This then would explain the two calls from Rosenbaum's phone at that time. He's calling people at Smallwood, perhaps looking for ZO, to figure out what to do about Spierer being dead in the apartment. Perhaps, because of drugs or some other illegal activity, they can't call the hospital or the police.
Somehow, they get rid of the body, with such skill, that even the massive professional search done for her couldn't find the body. Then the boys involved come up with a story: we have to move the time and location of her death, they reason, so as to throw off the investigation. So, they have her not leaving 5North until 4:30, and don't mention her or them being at Tenth & College at all.
There are problems with this theory: I went to 10th and College apartments, and noticed a lot of cameras. So, presumably, AB would have been captured on camera, taking Spierer up to the 3rd floor, at 3:38. Is it possible the police missed this, because they believed she was at 5North during that time? Also, the theory doesn't explain how her body was disposed of.
So, I suppose the way to test this theory would be to look for footage of Lauren being taken up to the 3rd floor of Tenth and College, at about ten till four. Then presumably, they'd have to get her body back out between four and five. When I was poking around Tenth & College, I wasn't able to get on a floor (that requires a pass card). But I noticed that the floors seem to have elevator access that goes right to the parking garage. So, according to this theory, one would imagine that they'd have to get her body to the elevator somehow, presumably contained in something, due to the cameras. And then they'd presumably be on camera exiting the parking garage is whatever vehicle they might have used.
I admit, one would assume that the police would have already found such surveillance footage, if it existed. I can only think, if this theory is correct, maybe they weren't looking for footage of her inside Tenth & College at that time, or the relevant cameras weren't operating. Anyway, those are my thoughts. May the truth come out soon, whatever it is.
When thinking about this case, I take as my starting point, a witness uncovered by blogger Tony Gatto. The witness was a manager at a local bar, who told Gatto, and the police, that she saw a woman matching Spierer's description, get stopped by a man as the woman was walking past Tenth & College Apartments. (The facade of these apartments is directly on the route Spierer would have been traveling, if walking from her allegedly last known indoor location (5North Townhomes) to her place of residence (Smallwood).)
The witness states that the woman matching Spierer's description was lifted by the man, flung over his shoulder, and carried away. As I recall, there is a big digital clock attached to that apartment building, which would explain how the witness could be insistent, that she saw this occur at exactly 3:38.
My next entry point, into constructing a theory about this case, concerns the identity of the young man who punched Corey Rossman. Private investigators hired by the Spierer family identify who the puncher was, as reported by the Journal News. Since, as far as I know, the puncher was not publicly identified as a person of interest by the police, I'll refer to him only by his initials: ZO. According to rumors, ZO, at least at the time of Lauren's disappearance, was a major cocaine dealer on IU campus.
As those familiar with the timeline are aware, Rossman and Spierer, coming from Kilroy's Sport's Bar, arrived at Smallwood Apartments at 2:30 am and were there for about ten minutes, during which time Rossman was punched by someone (ZO), on the fifth floor. Rossman, at that point, according to him, lost his memory, not to regain it again for the rest of the night.
The pair then traveled through an alley, to Rossman's place at 5North Townhomes (two blocks away), presumably arriving there around 3 am. (Along the way, they stopped into Tenth & College Apartments, to look for some girls that apparently weren't home.) According to Jason Rosenbaum (Rossman's neighbor at 5N, who also knew Spierer) Spierer moved from Rossman's apartment to his, after Mike Beth, supposedly, put a blacked-out and vomiting Corey Rossman to bed. Rosenbaum, famously claims that Spierer then left his apartment, at 4:30 am, him watching from his balcony, as she walked down to College Ave, and turned right, headed toward Smallwood.
The last crucial piece of the puzzle, for my theory, is the phone calls. There is a 3:30 call from Beth to Rosenbaum. Then there are two calls, between 4 am and 4:30, from Rosenbaum's phone to Rohn (an acquaintance of Spierer's from Smallwood) and to a second unknown person.
So here's one way, it seems to me, to fit all of this together (hypothetically and theoretically speaking): Rossman and Spierer arrive at 5North at 3 am. Beth takes 30 minutes to wrangle his drunk, vomiting roommate (Rossman) into bed. During this time, Spierer gets tired of waiting and wanders away, heading back down College Ave. This would take her right past Tenth & College Apts. at just the right time for the bar manager to see her, at 3:38. Then the mystery man picks her up and disappears with her, let's say into Tenth & College.
Now, this is interesting: according to my investigation, ZO, at that time, was living in an apartment on the 3rd floor of Tenth & College Apts! According to Gatto, the witness described the mystery man as, "dark-skinned, about 5 feet, nine inches, 160 pounds, defined facial bone-structure and pointed, thin, rounded sideburns. ...wearing a polo-style shirt". This does not fit with a description of ZO. However, also according to my investigation, ZO had a roommate at the time, initials AB, that arguably does fit this description.
So, again speaking hypothetically and theoretically, let's say that Mike Beth finishes putting Rossman to bed, and comes out to find that Spierer has vanished. Let us further suppose that Rosenbaum, AB, and others are at a party at ZO's apartment, without ZO actually being present for all of it. This would explain Beth's call to Rosenbaum at 3:30: he calls and says something like, "Hey Lauren just wandered out of my apartment. She must be headed to Smallwood. She's barely mobile. Would someday check and see if she's walking past Tenth & College right now, and if she's okay?"
So, at this point, say somebody goes out the back to look, and AB goes out the College Ave. side of the building, just in time to find Lauren, and be witnessed by the bar manager, picking her up and carrying her into Tenth & College. According to this theory then, she dies in ZO and AB's apartment, sometime between 3:38 and around 4 am, Friday, June 3rd, due to some combination of drugs, alcohol, her heart problem, falling down and striking her head, or maybe something more sinister. Rosenbaum is still at the party when this happens, let's suppose. This then would explain the two calls from Rosenbaum's phone at that time. He's calling people at Smallwood, perhaps looking for ZO, to figure out what to do about Spierer being dead in the apartment. Perhaps, because of drugs or some other illegal activity, they can't call the hospital or the police.
Somehow, they get rid of the body, with such skill, that even the massive professional search done for her couldn't find the body. Then the boys involved come up with a story: we have to move the time and location of her death, they reason, so as to throw off the investigation. So, they have her not leaving 5North until 4:30, and don't mention her or them being at Tenth & College at all.
There are problems with this theory: I went to 10th and College apartments, and noticed a lot of cameras. So, presumably, AB would have been captured on camera, taking Spierer up to the 3rd floor, at 3:38. Is it possible the police missed this, because they believed she was at 5North during that time? Also, the theory doesn't explain how her body was disposed of.
So, I suppose the way to test this theory would be to look for footage of Lauren being taken up to the 3rd floor of Tenth and College, at about ten till four. Then presumably, they'd have to get her body back out between four and five. When I was poking around Tenth & College, I wasn't able to get on a floor (that requires a pass card). But I noticed that the floors seem to have elevator access that goes right to the parking garage. So, according to this theory, one would imagine that they'd have to get her body to the elevator somehow, presumably contained in something, due to the cameras. And then they'd presumably be on camera exiting the parking garage is whatever vehicle they might have used.
I admit, one would assume that the police would have already found such surveillance footage, if it existed. I can only think, if this theory is correct, maybe they weren't looking for footage of her inside Tenth & College at that time, or the relevant cameras weren't operating. Anyway, those are my thoughts. May the truth come out soon, whatever it is.
@Vidocq:
Welcome! It's nice to have someone new join the conversation, and I look forward to hearing your input as a local.
My thoughts: The theory you describe was the one that was promoted (through rumor) on Gatto, etc. when his blog was the only source of information.
The main problem, in my opinion (and as you note), is that there are cameras at 10th and College. LE has debunked the sighting at 3:38 based on camera surveillance at that time, and the 'mystery man' has since been identified by the private investigators and in MSM as Corey Rossman. Since LE put the encounter with the man about an hour earlier, this totally makes sense as it fits into the timeline described by all sources, including the POI.
Also, fwiw, I've never been able to find a smidgen of proof to back up the rumors about ZO. The only person with a drug related charge in this group is Corey Rossman. And although Gatto pointed to AB, he never even found out if AB was in Bloomington the night Lauren disappeared, and this person has never been named by any other source as being around. I suspect attention on him was just based on the 'dark skinned' comment (the height and weight do not match), but Gatto couldn't even answer whether the witness was referring to skin tone or ethnicity, so it wasn't a very helpful description, IMO.
JMO
Welcome! It's nice to have someone new join the conversation, and I look forward to hearing your input as a local.
My thoughts: The theory you describe was the one that was promoted (through rumor) on Gatto, etc. when his blog was the only source of information.
The main problem, in my opinion (and as you note), is that there are cameras at 10th and College. LE has debunked the sighting at 3:38 based on camera surveillance at that time, and the 'mystery man' has since been identified by the private investigators and in MSM as Corey Rossman. Since LE put the encounter with the man about an hour earlier, this totally makes sense as it fits into the timeline described by all sources, including the POI.
Also, fwiw, I've never been able to find a smidgen of proof to back up the rumors about ZO. The only person with a drug related charge in this group is Corey Rossman. And although Gatto pointed to AB, he never even found out if AB was in Bloomington the night Lauren disappeared, and this person has never been named by any other source as being around. I suspect attention on him was just based on the 'dark skinned' comment (the height and weight do not match), but Gatto couldn't even answer whether the witness was referring to skin tone or ethnicity, so it wasn't a very helpful description, IMO.
JMO
bessie
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I believe there was a question about time earlier.
Polygraph, DNA Tests Issued in Lauren Spierer Case
Polygraph, DNA Tests Issued in Lauren Spierer Case
Cops: Many tips after 'America's Most Wanted' show on Lauren Spierer
bessie
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Welcome to Websleuths, Vidocq! I'm glad you decided to join us. Your "mystery man" theory is familiar. I thought it was a credible one three years ago, and to this day, I can't fully discount it. There are still too many unknowns, too many discrepancies with timelines, surveillance cameras, and video. As you say, "may the truth come out soon".
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