IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #6

[Ven]

Ten minutes for the vehicle to get around the block (which happens to include the CR/JR/MB home). TEN MINUTES!

Could have been driving all over campus and only came back that way 10 mins later.
Could have driven up alongside LS at some point and been talking to her, confronting her, coaxing her into the truck, attacking her, etc.

Unfortunately, the pictures don't give us any indication whether or not the truck was going the same speed or different speeds on the two passes.

 

[British]

Maybe lauren's mom knows who failed the polygraphs and she was speaking directly to them at the presser.

Exactly what I thought.

 

[epiphany]

She left her off-campus apartment building about 12:30 a.m. with fellow student DR and went to friend JR's apartment up the street.

At JR's, Spierer met up with CR, who lives two doors down in JR's building, and the two headed to Kilroy's bar.

Spierer then went to JR's. He was the last person to report seeing her, saying she left his place at about 4:15 a.m. after he tried to convince her to stay.

Snipped
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-16-missing-indiana-student-spierer_n.htm

IMO, this looks like things may rest with JR for the moment. Why did JR want LS to stay? If it were too late for LS to go home alone, why not walk her himself, since he so wanted her to remain? What condition was she in that JR wanted her to remain? Were illegal substances used? Did he want her to stay because of a romantic interest in her?

 

[cluciano63]

Exactly what I thought.

I think Lauren's mom probably also knows who refused to take polygraphs, if anyone did, as she insists they are not telling all they know...how infuriating for her to feel this way.

 

[eqh]

Could have been driving all over campus and only came back that way 10 mins later.
Could have driven up alongside LS at some point and been talking to her, confronting her, coaxing her into the truck, attacking her, etc.

Unfortunately, the pictures don't give us any indication whether or not the truck was going the same speed or different speeds on the two passes.

Let's suppose the truck was in motion for the entire time. What route would it take?

If it turned right on Morton, it is actually a fairly convoluted route, if you look at a map of Bloomington. Morton ends at 11th, and 11th ends at Walnut, forcing a turn left. Then, the driver could turn around or drive through a number of places.

It seems likely the driver stopped, somewhere... perhaps the complex at 11th and college? Would have had enough time to get Lauren from inside that building.

If this was a stranger abduction, I think they'd be back through in less than 10 minutes.

Saw this link in an earlier thread, it is interesting: http://www.bloomingtonsecuritycameras.com/map.html
Sadly, it cuts off at 11th st. Does suggest that if the truck went through the center of town, it would be on another camera.

Also, there is a steak n shake, a gas station, a hotel and a mcdonalds on College/Walnut north of 14th street that this truck may have passed by.

 

[British]

I think Lauren's mom probably also knows who refused to take polygraphs, if anyone did, as she insists they are not telling all they know...how infuriating for her to feel this way.

Hard to know if anyone refused to take polygraphs. But it is hard to imagine that anyone would refuse to take polygraphs in this case, unless they have something to hide. Refusing to take a polygraph would make them immediately top suspects.

 

[cluciano63]

Hard to know if anyone refused to take polygraphs. But it is hard to imagine that anyone would refuse to take polygraphs in this case, unless they have something to hide. Refusing to take a polygraph would make them immediately top suspects.

Several of these students have attorneys, and they may have advised them as to whether or not to take LD tests...most defense attorneys are not going to advise it.

 

[British]

Does anyone have a link to the police conference from today? Is there a video with that somewhere online?

 

[TonyGatto]

I think Lauren's mom probably also knows who refused to take polygraphs, if anyone did, as she insists they are not telling all they know...how infuriating for her to feel this way.

JR says he saw her on foot eastbound on 11th toward College and then turning right around the corner. Qualters today said "that cannot be corroborated by video evidence." A 4:15am call was made from JR's phone to DR. JR says it was Lauren, not him who made the call. JR high-tailed it back to Michigan.

I will bet the ranch that she is talking directly to JR, the man with the high-priced attorney.

 

[Ven]

This will sound really stupid, but when it comes to lie detector tests, I remember my physics teacher rigged one up in high school and had demonstrated on me and a couple other students. Needless to say, I did not lie and yet it said I did.

The setup was probably faulty/incompetent teacher error, whatever, but I always thought "man, I don't know if I trust those things".

And yes I know it was not professional!

 

[British]

Ten minutes for the vehicle to get around the block (which happens to include the CR/JR/MB home). TEN MINUTES!

That's the key point. 10 whole minutes.

 

[eqh]

This will sound really stupid, but when it comes to lie detector tests, I remember my physics teacher rigged one up in high school and had demonstrated on me and a couple other students. Needless to say, I did not lie and yet it said I did.

The setup was probably faulty/incompetent teacher error, whatever, but I always thought "man, I don't know if I trust those things".

And yes I know it was not professional!

But it is a good point. I teach in a field that has something to say about polygraphs. I tell my college students to NEVER agree to one.

Hell, if it were my son as a p.o.i. and I was 100% sure he had nothing to do with a crime (and even if this could be proven), I would insist he is honest with the police but I would NOT let him take a polygraph.

Polygraphs are only useful as a tool for LE to get confessions. Failing a polygraph doesn't indicate guilt -- it isn't usually admissible evidence in a court, has a high probability of false positives, and passing a polygraph doesn't mean much either -- a true psychopath would pass every time.

A polygraph allows a detective to tell a suspect "you failed... do you want to confess?" And I suspect that sometimes LE will use that maneuver even if the test isn't failed....

All that being said, is someone involved in this case hiding something? Probably.

 

[mountainguy777]

So I'm thinking the boys are involved, or the truck with random strangers are involved. I don't see the boys and the truck being connected. Police seem to really want to find the truck, yet mom came across as more focused on persons in Lauren's inner circle. so which is it??? IMO.

 

[jjenny]

At some point, LE said that they have video of Lauren at about 3am (2:48AM now, I believe) and that they could see the "activity" on it. Maybe CR was carrying her, if her bare feet hurt her? I know he was supposed to be "injured" but just a guess...surely by now her feet are hurting, she must know she doesn't have shoes, did not obtain any at Smallwood. Locals have said the roads and alleys are not smooth sailing, as far as walking around without shoes.

But I don't understand, in any event, how she was allowed to head out again at or about 4am, barefoot, if she did in fact walk out of the 2nd building.

She was supposedly taking CR home because he got punched in a head. Beat up people generally would not be carrying someone who is trying to take them home.

 

[Ven]

But it is a good point. I teach in a field that has something to say about polygraphs. I tell my college students to NEVER agree to one.

Hell, if it were my son as a p.o.i. and I was 100% sure he had nothing to do with a crime (and even if this could be proven), I would insist he is honest with the police but I would NOT let him take a polygraph.

Polygraphs are only useful as a tool for LE to get confessions. Failing a polygraph doesn't indicate guilt -- it isn't usually admissible evidence in a court, has a high probability of false positives, and passing a polygraph doesn't mean much either -- a true psychopath would pass every time.

A polygraph allows a detective to tell a suspect "you failed... do you want to confess?" And I suspect that sometimes LE will use that maneuver even if the test isn't failed....

All that being said, is someone involved in this case hiding something? Probably.

I'm glad I've never had to take a real one!

 

[jjenny]

So I'm thinking the boys are involved, or the truck with random strangers are involved. I don't see the boys and the truck being connected. Police seem to really want to find the truck, yet mom came across as more focused on persons in Lauren's inner circle. so which is it??? IMO.

Maybe mom is thinking they aren't telling all they know. But it doesn't necessarily means they were involved. They might be trying to avoid telling about there activities related to their partying, who knows.

 

[JeannaT]

But it is a good point. I teach in a field that has something to say about polygraphs. I tell my college students to NEVER agree to one.

Hell, if it were my son as a p.o.i. and I was 100% sure he had nothing to do with a crime (and even if this could be proven), I would insist he is honest with the police but I would NOT let him take a polygraph.

Polygraphs are only useful as a tool for LE to get confessions. Failing a polygraph doesn't indicate guilt -- it isn't usually admissible evidence in a court, has a high probability of false positives, and passing a polygraph doesn't mean much either -- a true psychopath would pass every time.

A polygraph allows a detective to tell a suspect "you failed... do you want to confess?" And I suspect that sometimes LE will use that maneuver even if the test isn't failed....

All that being said, is someone involved in this case hiding something? Probably.

I think these kids are ALL hiding stuff. When you have a very drunk underage girl who goes missing, they're not necessarily hiding information about where she is, but their own criminal conduct that night. Underage kids who habitually drink and do drugs have kind of this "running below the radar" thing where they clam up and nobody saw nothin'.

 

[jjenny]

But it is a good point. I teach in a field that has something to say about polygraphs. I tell my college students to NEVER agree to one.

Hell, if it were my son as a p.o.i. and I was 100% sure he had nothing to do with a crime (and even if this could be proven), I would insist he is honest with the police but I would NOT let him take a polygraph.

Polygraphs are only useful as a tool for LE to get confessions. Failing a polygraph doesn't indicate guilt -- it isn't usually admissible evidence in a court, has a high probability of false positives, and passing a polygraph doesn't mean much either -- a true psychopath would pass every time.

A polygraph allows a detective to tell a suspect "you failed... do you want to confess?" And I suspect that sometimes LE will use that maneuver even if the test isn't failed....

All that being said, is someone involved in this case hiding something? Probably.

Yes, exactly. It's a tool for police to use and try make someone confess, or see if they can rule someone out. Relatives of abducted victims frequently agree to take a polygraph.

 

[jjenny]

JR says he saw her on foot eastbound on 11th toward College and then turning right around the corner. Qualters today said "that cannot be corroborated by video evidence." A 4:15am call was made from JR's phone to DR. JR says it was Lauren, not him who made the call. JR high-tailed it back to Michigan.

I will bet the ranch that she is talking directly to JR, the man with the high-priced attorney.

Yes, JR is the last known person to have seen Lauren before she went missing.
But unlike CR's attorney, JR's lawyer has been so quiet.

 

[StrayKat]

I am thinking they are both involved... as in the friends and the truck. Someone may have been called to come help them get rid of the body. Also, didn't LE say that the last definate sighting is of her is her leaving her apartment bldg with CR... and that they don't have video of her at his apartment.