IN - New Albany: Mother, two children found dead in creek

[mysteriew]

Defense attorney: Use of grand jury in case is odd

http://www.wave3.com/story/22717084/defense-attorney-use-of-grand-jury-in-case-is-odd

Updated: Jun 28, 2013 7:55 PM EDT
By Janelle MacDonald - bio | email

NEW ALBANY, IN (WAVE) - The deaths of a New Albany mother and her two children has been unusual from the start. Police concluded she drowned the children and then somehow drowned herself in March.

A Floyd County grand jury started investigating this week, despite police saying in May that they knew how Jaime, 35, Brandon, 10, and Katelyn Clutter, 6 months, died. It indicates that there's a rift growing between police and prosecutors in New Albany.

[PREVIOUS STORY: Police to release new information in Clutter family deaths]

Friday, a subpoena arrived at WAVE 3 asking to hear what police told us they'd concluded in a May 17 news conference. The prosecutor's office and New Albany police department are just a few hundred yards away from each other........more at link.......

Now that is interesting. It kind of points to maybe the prosecutor being told something by LE and maybe he believes the media was told something different? Very interesting.

 

[michmi]

Thanks Reader... this is VERY strange that a PD would seem so uncooperative with the DA. And, to me, it just looks like their investigation was either sloppy or way too slim or both. Of course, we also have to wonder if they are covering up something or protecting someone to be acting this strange (basically belligerent) in this case.

I wonder, since we have yet to see a person identified, if one of the "somethings" being covered up or protected was the person who supposedly saw Jaime and the kids dressed inappropriately that very morning?

 

[wfgodot]

As far as the PD and the DA go, that un-cooperativeness can be par for the course. We'd like to imagine them - on the same team, after all - as getting on like houses on fire. But too frequently, I think, it does happen - tempers flare if, say, the DA won't bring a case the PD wants prosecuted. Or the DA is given a case which immediately falls apart due to aspects of LE's investigation.

Still, having it happen in a sensational case like this one is a bit disturbing.

 

[time]

I wonder, since we have yet to see a person identified, if one of the "somethings" being covered up or protected was the person who supposedly saw Jaime and the kids dressed inappropriately that very morning?

Yeah, there has been NO clue who saw her that morning. That is kind of odd considering LE is saying this is not a criminal case.

 

[michmi]

I at least would like to hear what the theory is as far as how she drowned her son and how they determined she drowned herself.

 

[time]

Now that is interesting. It kind of points to maybe the prosecutor being told something by LE and maybe he believes the media was told something different? Very interesting.

I posted in reply to you last night, but I must not have completed it!

I think you are making a good point here.

I can't remember the rest of my post now, but looking back it does seem some strange things have been reported in the media.

March 7

Investigators say Clutter's husband Mike Clutter is cooperating with the investigation and allowed police to search their cars.

"There is no evidence to date to suggest that the father was present that afternoon at the creek," police said.

http://www.wthr.com/story/21641414/police-releasing-few-details-on-three-bodies-found-in-new-albany

Why is he saying this as if this happened in the afternoon? Did the ME/Coroner give a TOD?

Henderson said recently he wanted a full review of matter in part because the Kentucky medical examiner and New Albany police reached different conclusions about what caused the deaths.

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-reviewing-deaths-Jamie-Clutter-her-children

This is really bothersome. Do the police decide what causes a death, trumping the ME?

 

[Yoda]

I posted in reply to you last night, but I must not have completed it!

I think you are making a good point here.

I can't remember the rest of my post now, but looking back it does seem some strange things have been reported in the media.

March 7
http://www.wthr.com/story/21641414/police-releasing-few-details-on-three-bodies-found-in-new-albany

Why is he saying this as if this happened in the afternoon? Did the ME/Coroner give a TOD?

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-reviewing-deaths-Jamie-Clutter-her-children

This is really bothersome. Do the police decide what causes a death, trumping the ME?

This is more then bothersome. These officials need to wake up. This isn't a power struggle, political/religious stance, cya for sloppy work. This is the death of a mother and children. They need to quit whatever carp is going on behind the scenes and work together. Not just because the victims deserve it but because they, the officials, should be moral human beings. Jmo

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Did the press conference and the demeanor of LE make anyone else uncomfortable?

 

[fred&edna]

I did a very brief search looking for previous reported clashes between the New Albany DA and police chief but didn't find anything. I wonder if they have a bad history??

 

[michmi]

http://www.courier-journal.com/arti...y-reviewing-deaths-Jamie-Clutter-her-children

Michael Clutter was due to meet with the grand jury late Friday afternoon. The proceedings are confidential, but he mentioned that his parents and friends from the family’s church, Greater Faith Church in New Albany, also had been subpoenaed.

Now why would HIS parents be subpoenaed?

"Friends from the family's church"....hmmmmm

 

[txsvicki]

Were the children drowned before they developed hypothermia? Confused.

 

[time]

I did a very brief search looking for previous reported clashes between the New Albany DA and police chief but didn't find anything. I wonder if they have a bad history??

I think Chief Knight has only been there since the beginning of 2012.

 

[Reader]

I was going back through some of the articles posted recently and noticed some of the comments in this one originally posted by time which mentioned the relationship of NAPD and the DA:

http://newsandtribune.com/local/x331664906/Floyd-County-Prosecutor-convenes-grand-jury

Comment/treated as rumor:

Two thumbs up for our Prosecutor. Finally someone with integrity called out the most unfit Chief and Police Administration in the history of the NAPD. Chief Knight ordered the detectives not to cooperate with the Prosecutor's Office, which is blatant Obstruction of Justice. This is not a petty political move by Mr. Henderson, not by a long shot. Mr. Henderson had no choice but to convene the grand jury because of the lack of cooperation which came straight from the desk of Chief Knight.

Chief Knight diagnosed the female as mentally ill. I was not aware Chief Knight was a licensed mental health professional or a psychiatrist. It is no wonder her subordinates would not even follow her into the water.

Again, way to go, Mr. Henderson. We need more people like you in our local government who will reign in people like Knight and the Mayor who simply think their position allows them to do as they please.

And speaking of the 'subordinates' and BL asking if the LE news conference made anyone uncomfortable, it certainly did bother me. Not only the almost smirky and smiley way of the Chief and her female investigator, but I kept looking at the 2 male investigators standing behind them who kept pacing and moving around. They seemed so nervous that it made me nervous too, and it made me wonder why the Chief had them present if she was not going to allow them to speak.

Another comment/rumor from that same article:

Well, everyone in Floyd Country knew there was something about this tragedy that smells to high heavens!

In another article that I posted someone commented this case was similar to the Steven Judy case, the victims were a mother and her 3 children and he was sentenced to death and electrocuted in 1981. Just my curiosity and knowing it is not really related but I looked the case up. He raped and strangled the mother and the 3 children were drowned. The link has info on the case and even a later article with views from LE, prosecutors and his own lawyer involved. If you want to read about it:

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/US/judy004.htm

 

[oceanblue]

This is absolutely my own opinion only. This entire situation reeks of NOT abiding by separation of church and state. No matter what in fact really happened at the creek that day, there is a whole lot of hinky going on in that town.

 

[time]

Thank you Reader, interesting comments, eh?

More interesting comments here also:

http://newsandtribune.com/local/x508505076/POLICE-New-Albany-mother-killed-two-children-then-herself

 

[wfgodot]

Even I, who think the announced version of events to be the correct one, am seriously creeped out by the "solving" of this case.

 

[fred&edna]

As always, I seem to have more questions (and, of course, an opinion or two to throw in):

Did the NAPD work backwards? I mean, did they approach this case with a preconceived assumption of murder/suicide and then attempt to find evidence to prove such an assumption??

When was information first released stating JC was delusional and incoherent? Did LE obtain her medical records via court order/subpoena? And if so, would there be a record of their requests to obtain such a court order??

Here's some interesting info written by UK forensic scientist, Dr. Angela Morrissey, specifically the Suicidal Drowning portion:

http://forensicsforwriters.blogspot.com/2013/04/death-by-drowning-murder-suicide.html

Copied/pasted verbatim:

"Suicide by drowning is uncommon and difficult to prove without corroborative evidence, such as a suicide note (which must be verified as genuine by a forensic document examiner).

It is also important to establish whether the victim had a significant history of mental illness.

If a person does decide to take their own life by drowning, the bathtub is the place of choice. The victim may also have taken an overdose of medication or drunk a lot of alcohol beforehand.

Suicide victims in the bathtub are invariably clothed.

The pathologist must establish that the nose and mouth of the victim were under water. When the body is discovered by, for example, the victim's partner, he or she may empty the bathtub or move the body to get the airways clear of the water.

Consequently, the pathologist cannot be absoutely certain of the original position of the body or the depth of water in the bathtub.

As with all potential findings of drowning, the pathologist must carefully correlate the circumstances preceding the death and the circumstances of the recovery of the victim from the water with the autopsy findings and laboratory analysis. Only then can the pathologist form an opinion as to the likely case of death."


The article links to this, as well:
http://netk.net.au/Reports/DiagnosticsofDrowning.asp


ETA:
In comparison to the above:
There was no suicide note
JC was not in a bathtub, but rather a neighborhood creek
No alcohol or medication revealed in tox report
JC was unclothed

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Here is part of the new conference that NAPD gave about the Clutter's death for those that may have missed it.

http://www.courier-journal.com/Vide...lead-investigator-on-Jaime-Clutter-delusions-
http://www.courier-journal.com/Vide...-Police-Chief-Sherri-Knight-on-Clutter-deaths

eta: I found two videos. Sure wish I could find the news conference video Henderson did.

 

[fred&edna]

A quote from a news report (previously mentioned several pages back)

"The family pastor for a southern Indiana woman found dead alongside her two children in a creek says the woman and her husband had seen "odd" and unexplainable
things happen around their apartment complex during the time they lived there."
(link below)

Hmmm... should we conclude that Mr. Clutter also had delusions of grandiose proportions and exhibited signs of serious mental illness??

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ent-where-woman-two-children-were-found-dead/


Another thought: The Clutters were a deeply devout Pentecostal family and, as part of their doctrine, believed in "speaking in tongues"... something that I (and other non-Pentecostals) could easily view as "speaking incoherently".

 

[mysteriew]

A quote from a news report (previously mentioned several pages back)

"The family pastor for a southern Indiana woman found dead alongside her two children in a creek says the woman and her husband had seen "odd" and unexplainable
things happen around their apartment complex during the time they lived there."
(link below)

Hmmm... should we conclude that Mr. Clutter also had delusions of grandiose proportions and exhibited signs of serious mental illness??

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ent-where-woman-two-children-were-found-dead/


Another thought: The Clutters were a deeply devout Pentecostal family and, as part of their doctrine, believed in "speaking in tongues"... something that I (and other non-Pentecostals) could easily view as "speaking incoherently".

You think maybe Mr. Clutter was suffering from post partum depression too?