GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[verbonica]

I tend to believe the 5-530 time frame. Maybe the 330 is a mistake?

I thought the same thing. I was thinking typo or something. 5-5:30 just makes much more sense considering all that he would have done, and it's more in line with when people might get up for work, and the Wagoners said that's why they were up then.

 

[verbonica]

I agree. 5 am makes more sense for the couple to be up getting ready for work. I know some people do get up at 3:30 for work. But a much higher percentage of couples would both be up at 5 or 5:30, as opposed to 3:30 am each morning for work. JMO

Your post appeared as I was typing mine!

 

[Tricia]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Please stick to the facts of the case.

I keep repeating myself all over Websleuths.

You cannot accuse someone of a crime because of a feeling you have or because of some random comment made by someone else.

It's one thing to comment on the parents behavior ( as in drinking while their child was kidnapped) but it's quite another to accuse others of crimes out of left field.

No matter what the parents behavior that night they have lost their child in one of the most horrific ways I have ever read.

It's obvious you feel frustrated and angry at the parents. I get it but let's bring it down a notch and keep it to the kidnapping of their baby.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[katydid23]

Your post appeared as I was typing mine!

Great minds think alike.

Two hours makes much more sense as a timeline. He was very busy in that time span.

 

[Museumgirl]

Her bed was out in the living room. It was right next to an unlocked door. Babies are typically put to sleep in closed off areas where drunk guests are not walking back and forth by the sleeping baby as they come and go from the house at 4 am. Most fathers would not be able to go to sleep in their own rooms if their tiny girl was in such a vulnerable position. Most parents have an innate urge towards protecting their babies. They would not feel comfortable with that situation the way it was set up.

Exactly. I rage posted earlier after seeing people question why having a baby sleeping in an open space without the parent AND drunk people in the home is some kind of problem. I cannot think of one parent I know that would think this was ok. It's not necessarily either scenarios separately are terrible, sometimes children have pack n plays or cots somewhere in the house when they don't spend all their time there and sometimes people come over to drink. That happens. The problem is the two combined. I've known my little brother's friends since they were toddlers and have no reason to believe they aren't the friendly, laid back guys I've always known them to be, but would I leave my children in the room with them while they were drinking and I was asleep? Never in my life. Not in the realm of possibility.

Truly, I hate to opine about tragedies like this, but if one adult in that house had just slept on the floor next to Shaylyn or brought her into their room, chances are KP couldn't have left the house with her. It's that simple.

 

[perfectingpink]

Exactly. I rage posted earlier after seeing people question why having a baby sleeping in an open space without the parent AND drunk people in the home is some kind of problem. I cannot think of one parent I know that would think this was ok. It's not necessarily either scenarios separately are terrible, sometimes children have pack n plays or cots somewhere in the house when they don't spend all their time there and sometimes people come over to drink. That happens. The problem is the two combined. I've known my little brother's friends since they were toddlers and have no reason to believe they aren't the friendly, laid back guys I've always known them to be, but would I leave my children in the room with them while they were drinking and I was asleep? Never in my life. Not in the realm of possibility.

Truly, I hate to opine about tragedies like this, but if one adult in that house had just slept on the floor next to Shaylyn or brought her into their room, chances are KP couldn't have left the house with her. It's that simple.

Please do not hate to give an opinion about tragedies like this. It is the opining that my help another person in a situation like this to make a better decision.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Does anyone know Shaylyn's birthday? My cousin's daughter is going to be 15 months old on April 7, so I think they might be close. Her middle name is Shay and my cousin was considering naming her Shaylyn but it didn't go well with their last name. :/ It definitely makes cases hit closer to home when you have a family member who is the exact same age and almost had the same name.

 

[katydid23]

Does anyone know Shaylyn's birthday? My cousin's daughter is going to be 15 months old on April 7, so I think they might be close. Her middle name is Shay and my cousin was considering naming her Shaylyn but it didn't go well with their last name. :/ It definitely makes cases hit closer to home when you have a family member who is the exact same age and almost had the same name.

I saw her birthday posted somewhere upthread, on a memorial page. Wish I could remember exactly where...sorry.

I know what you mean though. We have her first grand baby now. A little baby girl, just turning one. Having a tiny grand daughter of my own, is making this a very sad case to even think about. Way too close to my heart. :rose:

 

[perfectingpink]

Does anyone know Shaylyn's birthday? My cousin's daughter is going to be 15 months old on April 7, so I think they might be close. Her middle name is Shay and my cousin was considering naming her Shaylyn but it didn't go well with their last name. :/ It definitely makes cases hit closer to home when you have a family member who is the exact same age and almost had the same name.

December 31, 2014

http://www.westparrishpedigo.com/displayobit1.aspx?callid=2691

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Her mother likely didn't have much of a choice. It can be difficult to have visitation taken away or to require them to be monitored.

True, but I believe in an interview Shaylyn's mother said the custody arrangement was informal but mutually agreed upon.

 

[melsmemories]

Hindsight is 20/20 . Sometimes people also learn to parent from their own parents who may have not done their absolute best . It may of been the best they knew how to do . My mum wasnt the best parent in the world . I adored her but at the same time sometimes she could be incredibly selfish and self absorbed . She never meant to be like that but i put it down to her not having a great childhood . Sadly a lot of it is a cycle till someone comes along who is strong enough to break it . A lot of people live what they learn

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[Museumgirl]

Hindsight is 20/20 . Sometimes people also learn to parent from their own parents who may have not done their absolute best . It may of been the best they knew how to do . My mum wasnt the best parent in the world . I adored her but at the same time sometimes she could be incredibly selfish and self absorbed . She never meant to be like that but i put it down to her not having a great childhood . Sadly a lot of it is a cycle till someone comes along who is strong enough to break it . A lot of people live what they learn

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I do understand, honestly. What you said is an important reminder. I just wish children didn't have to keep paying for these errors in judgement with their lives. I admit I'm hopelessly idealistic.

This reminded me of when I left the States to reside where I am now, they had PSAs on TV about drinking around children and reminding folks that all children need sober, responsible adults taking care of them in any scenario where there are adults drinking (friends over, cookouts, large holiday gatherings, etc). I didn't get it at first, but I believe it went along way at challenging the normalisation oF children being safe around adults and alcohol.

 

[melsmemories]

I do understand, honestly. What you said is an important reminder. I just wish children didn't have to keep paying for these errors in judgement with their lives. I admit I'm hopelessly idealistic.

This reminded me of when I left the States to reside where I am now, they had PSAs on TV about drinking around children and reminding folks that all children need sober, responsible adults taking care of them in any scenario where there are adults drinking (friends over, cookouts, large holiday gatherings, etc). I didn't get it at first, but I believe it went along way at challenging the normalisation oF children being safe around adults and alcohol.

I agree but in a perfect world we wouldnt have sickos that prey on innocent children . In any scenario that little girl suffered atrocitys no one but especially a child should have to endure . Even being an aussie where i grew up around adults drinking (dads side ) mum would at least make sure us kids were safe .

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[perfectingpink]

I do understand, honestly. What you said is an important reminder. I just wish children didn't have to keep paying for these errors in judgement with their lives. I admit I'm hopelessly idealistic.

This reminded me of when I left the States to reside where I am now, they had PSAs on TV about drinking around children and reminding folks that all children need sober, responsible adults taking care of them in any scenario where there are adults drinking (friends over, cookouts, large holiday gatherings, etc). I didn't get it at first, but I believe it went along way at challenging the normalisation oF children being safe around adults and alcohol.

I hate PSA's are needed, but they are. Common sense went out the window after the first bite of that dang "apple" I guess.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I don't want to defend these people (blech!) but some physical disabilities are kind of "invisible" like fibromyalgia and some autoimmune diseases, for example. Not saying these people have any of those...but just saying it's possible to have unseen physical disabilities.



I would think that usually, yes, *advertiser censored* is something people watch on their own or maybe with a partner. However, in college, I do recall groups of guys in the dorms sometimes watching it together. I always found it to be a bit odd. But usually they would watch and laugh at it so who knows.

You're right...I was trying to say that I think their disabilities are in mental health/lower IQ areas rather than physical, while still being polite about it. I just get the feeling they're not very smart, as in not capable of it, rather than simply uneducated. And I think that contributed to this incident because it actually didn't occur to them there could be a problem.

 

[skibaboo]

Yoohoo! Map workers! Can you add the location where he took a shower and cleaned the car to the case map? TIA.

Done! Updated Case Map

I don't think we can sleuth TW, since they are not POI's. In addition, the article does not provide the exact location of the house. That being said, I happen to live close enough that I have a physical phone book which does list the address.

On the other hand, since the suspects car was found by LE in their garage, perhaps its ok to post a driving directions map from JA's house, to near the Indian Creek / White River location that SA's body was found, to TW's house HERE.

That's between 18 to 20 Minute drive time depending on which route he took. He would have had to leave JA's at the latest around 2:30am to have time to pull over, assault SA, hide the body in the woods in the dark and burn the clothing, return to his car, and get to TW's by approximately 3:30am by my best estimate.

Thank you so much this really helped. The video in the article posted, that has the interview with the lady who lives there shows the house, I've linked it on the map so I think we're all good.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Last week at work, the most fascinating speaker presented a discussion about abuse against vulnerable adults. The speaker is disabled and has a service dog. Apparently a few people have decided since she doesn't APPEAR disabled, she doesn't need her dog and they freely and aggressively tell her so. I've heard people make comments like that about the handicap parking spots. Many disabilities aren't readily visible... seizure disorders and other neurological issues, etc.

I don't know the cognitive status of the members of this family. But... That's exactly it--we don't know the cognitive status of these individuals....

Collecting Social Security Disability benefits doesn't come easy. One has to provide tons of medical information and must also undergo exams by doctors that have been approved by the government to conduct such exams. The amount one collects a month is based on what they have paid into social security. If you look at the top of your annual statement you will see the amount you would collect if you started collecting "today." That amount never increases except for an annual cost of living percentage (there was no increase for 2016). When one reaches the standard age to start collecting social security, the benefit amount does not change. Recipients' cases are open to review at any time to determine if they are still eligible to collect benefits. There is a wide range of things that qualify one to receive benefits. Most people are of the opinion that one must exhibit noticeable signs of a disability like being in a wheelchair, being on oxygen, or a host of other conditions that are apparent to the naked eye. Close friends and relatives might not even be aware of a person's disability unless they are told about it. If you would see me shopping at the mall, doing gardening, having fun at the beach, or sensibly debating someone over a complex subject, you wouldn't think for a moment that I'm disabled, but I am.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I've had so many people claim children of a certain age are legally required to have their own bedrooms, but when pressed, no one has been able to provide me with any statutes specifying that? I've gotten information about foster children and adopted children and section 8 regulations, but I'd love a link to a source that regular, typical children in regular, typical households are legally required to have a bedroom.

You're not going to find a source saying that because there's no blanket law stating that.

Every community has its own rules/regulations regarding such, but requiring every child to have his/her own room would likely be considered overly intrusive and burdensome on families and unlikely to pass. Some have requirements that only apply to rentals while others apply to all homes, owned and rented. Occupancy permits state how many people can live there (for example, ours, which applies to our owned home, states that we can have two people per bedroom; it doesn't specify age restrictions -- just two people per room, and a bedroom is defined as a room with a closet).

 

[MBK]

Shaylyn seems to have had a few health issues - - including bronchiolitis (which had passed, or she still had?). In any case, it seems to me that a responsible parent/ grandparent would have had her crib in their room. And friggin' stop smoking around her. IMHO, nobody, nobody was looking out for her best interests. Everything was kind of half-assed, at best.

 

[Irisha]

This breaks my heart...I'm originally from Indiana so I always read these cases. I feel for her mother and siblings.

I agree about the mother. I've been thinking about my emotional struggle if I had to sit at my daughter's funeral with that family there knowing what I know. I do not feel I could even acknowledge them.

That family had enough information about KP to not ever let that SOB baby rapist killer ever in that house near her. :furious::moo: