Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #80

[zoomom]

I do believe this was a premeditated crime; however, I don't understand how Jodi could risk someone coming home in the midst of the killing. Can anyone tell me what info there was about the whereabouts of the roommates on that day? Was there any way she could have known that they wouldn't walk in on the whole thing? Did the roomies have a set work schedule that she knew about? I know his bedroom suite was upstairs, and doors could be closed...but they could have heard gunshot, struggle, screaming, or even just have seen her coming or going from his house. How could she have been so confident of not being caught in the act?
Please forgive if I have posted on the wrong thread, I am new to posting.

Probably late in answering this (I work my butt off 8-6pm), but as far as i know - premeditation can occur in the blink of an eye. Not hours, not minutes. Apologize if this has been answered already. Just hope this clarifies what I didn't understand a couple of trials ago......

It made all the difference to me.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Precisely.

And I just love how Jodi's so screwed regardless if Nurmi calls Matt or not. Jodi loses either way

 

[JusticeJunkie]

she also testiphonied that she had that cd in her car for years...more ever-changing carp from JA

In her RENTAL car?

 

[LizardQueen74]

No one is calling Matt. He's a wild card. No one knows for sure what he'd say on the stand.

Juan did a magnificent job of making sure Jodi talked a lot about Matt. His once willingness to lie for her, his part in receiving those coded magazines... Jodi was more than happy to do her share to talk up Matt ... Wouldn't betray her.

Nurmi ain't calling Matt to the stand and Juan can tell the jurors in closing argument that the defense didn't call him!!!


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It's brilliant...he wins either way! If Nurmi decides to roll the dice, the jury already has this image of MM and will likely question his credibility. If he doesn't then JM has the ability to use it against them in closing. :rocker::rocker:

 

[MeeBee]

And I just love how Jodi's so screwed regardless if Nurmi calls Matt or not. Jodi loses either way

YES!! Brilliantly played...

 

[KandyKane]

Jodi clearly tells Flores at minute-mark 1.52.30:
"He was looking at some pictures I had brought for him"


....which means, she took photos all the way from California in anticipation of seeing Travis! If that's not premeditation then I don't know what more the State needs!
Anyone agree?

http://youtu.be/Y-oIDEfAjSI?t=1h52m28s

No. It fits right in with her current story that she was invited there and had to kill him in self-defense when he suddenly attacked her. Of her three stories, her presense alone isn't premeditation except for the first one in which she claimed she wasn't there at all.

Premeditation only goes to the murder, not her mere presense in his home when he was killed.

 

[ElleElle]

Are there any cameras in ANY of the stops she made in SoCal?

She must've been "caught on tape" before she headed for Mesa.

I'd like to hear from Darryl what color Jodi's hair was when she arrived and when she returned the remote. I'm not confident that Darryl would remember correctly though.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's brilliant...he wins either way! If Nurmi decides to roll the dice, the jury already has this image of MM and will likely question his credibility. If he doesn't then JM has the ability to use it against them in closing. :rocker::rocker:

Juan would impeach Matts testimony on cross quicker than you could say strawberry frap!

 

[jusdafacts]

Right, but was he asked any follow ups about why jodi had his remote control or did her hair color change from the time she left and the time she returned the remote?

Juan didn't ask about her hair colour on cross because it went beyond the scope of direct. If Darryl is called for rebuttal, we'll know why

 

[mck16]

This case is wearing me out. Just go with the evidence. It is so simple. Don't understand all the other menutia. It was totally overkill and in no way self defense. What is the problem? Instead of trying to prove it was premeditated. prove it wasn't. tia

 

[JusticeJunkie]

He wouldn't even testify to the color of her car at the time. :banghead:

What a gentleman - he let her load the gas cans herself? umhmmm
IMO, he lied about quite a lot on the stand, even though he came across as quiet and meek. I think there's LOTS he knows that we don't know.

 

[atthelake]

This was originally posted by Mormon Attorney, who provided some excellent insights into the mind of JA. If you have a chance, go search the last thread for Mormon Atty's posts.

Honestly, I was amazed at how he knew exactly what to do with this personality. It is something I have learned as a "therapeutic parent" and was literally delighted that he understood how he needed to handle her. Here are some examples:

1. Non-sense lying is for control. JA has no respect for anyone but herself. She is smarter than anyone. To keep control, she lies even when it does not benefit her. Not only that, but it is a "test" to see if those interacting with her are smart enough to catch it. If they don't catch her, she sees them as worthless and stupid. If they do catch her and hold her accountable, they gain her respect (even though she still feels brighter). JM showed her right at the outset that he could catch her on EVERY SINGLE lie and that he could prove it. He gained her respect - that's why she looked like she enjoyed it. She finally met a worthy opponent, not just another person who feel for her stuff. Without talking bad about Nurmi, he has obviously fallen for her stuff and has not taken her to task. She does not respect him. If you notice, she tests him all the time by controlling their direct and he lets her do it. Even when he tries to give her answers, she won't always take them. Control, even when it doesn't help her. Nurmi has failed her test. Honestly, I believe she has felt "safer" with JM because he earned her respect, as opposed to Nurmi who has not earned her respect and does not have leadership with her. It literally must be scary for someone like her to be in Nurmi's hands when he has failed her tests. (And, just to clarify, as her own attorney, he did not catch the gas can stuff, he failed to see the margins of the magazines - she has gotten the best of him many times on things he could have helped her on but she didn't trust him).

2. Authority. Once JM establishes control - which is essential - he must keep it. Notice that he constantly says to her, "Mam, did I ask you if you....." when she adds to questions. He is jerking the choke chain, letting her know he is still in control and she is out of line. She bulks back at him a few times, but eventually she does submit.

3. Follow through. JM also taught her from the outset that he will never bluff. Lots of attorneys bluff or hint at evidence that may or may not come in. But, every single time she has lied and he has caught her, he has followed it through ALL THE WAY until the bitter end. In every case, she has not gotten out of it without having to face that she was caught. While this irritated some people, especially when the point was useless, it was essential with her personality that he prove his worthiness to her. One of the reasons he was able to crack her was that she now is somewhat afraid of playing the same antics (not that she won't) because she knows he will prove whatever he brings up. As a result, she is giving up much sooner than in the beginning. Notice that in the interviews with Detective Flores, even when he had actual pictures, she would say "That looks like me. How can that be?" Even photo proof didn't stop the lies. Now, JM has shown her that he will prove each and every detail and it takes the fun out of trying to lie and control him.

4. He never got flustered. As a parent, this is one thing we learn right away. To have calm control. The moment we get angry or hostile or snooty, the child has "won" in their war of control. If they can control your emotions, often that is what makes them feel powerful - it often has nothing to do with the actual outcome of events. Controlling you and your emotions is sufficient to make them feel safe and in charge (also unteachable). By remaining calm, even though animated and sometimes aggressive, he never gave her the feeling of control. Even when he had to follow endless stupid rabbit trails that outsiders thought made him look like a fool, he maintained composure and saw it to the bitter end. That is critical.

In sum, I have honestly wondered who trained him and how he had the faith to do that right. It is very hard and I am sure he had to feel stupid chasing those leads all the way to the end. But, he taught her to respect him. He taught her that he had control. And, every time she is out of line, he jerks her chain again and she often submits. I think it has been brilliant and I am just glad the jury could see it.

Just want to say - as a therapeutic parent - I often have to handle lying and violence with the same calm and be willing to calmly go through lies until we get to the truth. BUT, as parents, we are also therapeutic and giving love because our goal is to change the outcome. So, I don't want anyone to read this and think that we, as parents, need to "jerk our child's chain" as JM has done with JA. He is obviously not trying to therapeutically parent -grin! He is going for pure control and I am amazed at how well he has done it.

:bump:

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[SunDawnn]

Am I allowed to insert Travis' shower photos in this thread? I don't know WS terms and conditions so I don't want to do something in violation. Can someone please advise? Thanks!!

 

[panthera]

Are there any cameras in ANY of the stops she made in SoCal?

She must've been "caught on tape" before she headed for Mesa.

Surveillance video would most likely already be looped over (i.e. erased) by the time LE had her itinerary.

MOO

 

[JusticeJunkie]

No. It fits right in with her current story that she was invited there and had to kill him in self-defense when he suddenly attacked her. Of her three stories, her presense alone isn't premeditation except for the first one in which she claimed she wasn't there at all.

Premeditation only goes to the murder, not her mere presense in his home when he was killed.

But remember he didn't "persuade" her until she was part way there in the RENTAL car, not her own car where she says she kept them.

 

[nightwatch]

On another note, NG's weekly trial recap is being shown on HLN now. JA is asked something about the gas transactions and she gives an answer that she had replaced the nozzle to the pump and therefore ended one transaction.....and had to start over? Is that really how she explains the multiple transactions???

:what:

multiple transactions twice. coming from ca and going back to ca coincidence we know better. :moo:

 

[atthelake]

Minor4th gas can analysis.

Well she filled up in Pasadena and filled up the gas cans. Her car had a 12-13 gallon capacity.
From Pasadena to Desert Center, it's 171 miles and takes 5 gallons of gas in a 2008 Ford Focus. On cross-exam, Jodi says she was running low on gas and filled up approx 12 gallons - that's not possible, but she could have topped off.

From Desert Center, CA to Buckeye, AZ, it's 170 miles and takes 5 gallons of gas. She said she filled up again in Buckeye and conceded on cross that she was running low on gas, so another 12 gallons of gas in Buckeye - this is not possible, and I do not believe she would have stopped at a gas station this close to Travis' home.

From Buckeye, AZ to Mesa, AZ is 56 miles and takes 1.7 gallons of gas.
If you assume Desert Center and Buckeye are fabrications because we don't have receipts and the appearance is Jodi is trying to be a ghost on her way to Travis' -- from Pasadena to Mesa is 386 miles and would take 11 gallons of gas. Jodi could make it to Mesa without stopping for gas, and have about 1 gallon to spare.

From Mesa to Hoover Dam is 293 miles and takes 8.6 gallons of gas.

From Hoover Dam to Mesquite, AZ it's 114.5 miles and takes 3.5 gallons of gas. In Mesquite, AZ she purchased $46.11 worth of gasoline --at least 10 gallons. There is no receipt for this gas purchase, and Jodi has not testified about getting gas here - we see this only on the bank statement that Juan entered yesterday.

So from Mesa to Mesquite, AZ, via Hoover Dam, Jodi would have used a little over 12 gallons at a minimum. That is a little more gas than she could have had left over in her tank plus 2, 5-gallon cans. Either she did stop between Mesa and Pasadena, or she had 3 gas cans. If she did stop for gas between Pasadena and Mesa, however, she would not have had to use the gas in the extra cans, so they would have remained full -- and she could not have filled them in SLC, which we know she did. Ergo, she had to have had 3 gas cans.

From Mesquite, AZ to West Jordan, UT, it's 331 miles, and takes 10 gallons of gas

From West Jordan to SLC, it's 13 miles and takes .5 gallons of gas.

In SLC she purchased 20.25 gallons of gas (not counting the possible purchase for the 3rd gas can). Presumably she filled up her car and the two cans, since this is way more gas than her car can hold.

From SLC to Winnemuca, NV, it's 354 miles and takes 10.4 gallons of gas. She said she was almost on empty when she filled up her car in Winnemuca. She purchased 12 gallons of gas.

From Winnemuca, NV to Sparks, NV it's 163 miles and takes 4.8 gallons of gas. In Sparks, she bought 5 gallons of gas. So she would have a full tank of gas and an extra 10 gallons in the trunk.

From Sparks, NV to Yreka, CA , it's 255 miles and takes 7.7 gallons of gas

From Yreka, CA to Redding, CA, it's 98 miles and takes 3 gallons of gas. In Redding she purchased 9.47 gallons of gas, presumably filling the tank.

At the end of her trip, she should have also still had 10 gallons of gas in the extra cans if she did not go anywhere else.

CONCLUSION:

1. She could not have made it from Pasadena to Mesquite on a tank of gas and 2, 5-gallon cans.

2. She could make it to Mesquite, NV if she had three extra 5-gallon cans OR if she filled up in Buckeye.

3. If she got filled up in Buckeye, then she would not have needed to use the extra gas cans at any time before she filled up again in Mesquite. And after filling up in Mesquite, she had enough gas to get her to West Jordan and then to SLC, and she still would not have needed the extra cans. But in SLC she filled up the extra 5-gallon cans, so she had to have used them. That means she did not fill up in Buckeye.

4. Since she didn't fill up in Buckeye, she must have used the extra tanks -- but since she couldn't make it all the way to Mesquite with 2 extra cans, she had to have had 3 extra gas cans.

5. Unless she went somewhere else after Sparks, NV, she should have ended her trip with 2 full 5-gallon gas cans.

:bump:

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[LizardQueen74]

EVERYTIME JM asks Jodi questions...this is what I anxiously await:

 

[SunDawnn]

No. It fits right in with her current story that she was invited there and had to kill him in self-defense when he suddenly attacked her. Of her three stories, her presense alone isn't premeditation except for the first one in which she claimed she wasn't there at all.

Premeditation only goes to the murder, not her mere presense in his home when he was killed.

LOL. If she was an invited guest then why did she lie to all her friends while making her pilgrimage?

It makes no sense.
But then again, we're talking about Jodi Arias here so it's par for the course I s'pose.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

But she didn't have her car, right? She rented one.

Was it ever asked why she rented a car seeing she bragged that her car was better than Travis' BMW? So if it was so great, why the extra expense of renting?



O/T.....does the jury get to go home or are they sequestered in a hotel?

They are not sequestered - they'd be going bonkers by now!!