Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #82

[ExigentPlan]

Actually, I'm agreeing with you. She would have been all set if she'd gone to a doctor and there really wasn't anything preventing her. My main reason for not believing the finger injury story (aside from the fact that she's a liar) is that the injury had to result from some kind of cutting, and she says all he did was kick her and broke her finger. I can't see how that would affect the tendon.

All set? I don't believe that. Her finger has nothing to do with her murdering him. It has nothing to do with her being in reasonable fear of immediate death to justify her actions. If her stories of abuse were true then why would she have driven to his place if he was so violent. Even if true, past violence doesn't justify self defense.

 

[rose222]

I don't believe that pedophilia/abuse claims had anything to do with Travis' angry mail. She didn't think of that till her two versions of how Travis was murdered didn't work out.
She may have hacked or had somebody else hack Travis' online accounts. Or maybe money related. Or she told him that her 'friends' suggested she go to the bishop with the sex tape so she doesn't 'sin' anymore. Something of that nature. If it's the worst thing she'd ever done then my guess would be it's sex tape bribery.

 

[neesaki]

He was doing the flying nun tackle of course. :great:

Why, yes, of course! :lol: But ya know, I thought she really did look strange and awkward when she was doing that in the courtroom. I though she looked awkward when she stood there with her arm around atty. Willmott too. Something just seems really off about her, I mean even beyond her more obvious problems of being a psycho killer and being a walking potpourri of personality disorders. Something more of a physical nature. It's been brought up before that she's robotic in her responses to questioning. I've also noticed how stiff and unnatural she appears, almost wooden, like she could just splinter into a million pieces. Could she possibly be that uncomfortable, that tense? I just wonder if it's related to her personality disorders, perhaps to her constant lying, or if there is something about being in jail all of this time that could have affected her proprioception. Or has she always been like this? :waitasec:

 

[rose222]

I really think it has to do with Mimi. When she heard Travis thought God told him Mimi should be his wife (or something like that), she couldn't stand it. She made up a story of someone telling her about Travis and Mimi having sex. This person had evidence and was going to report it to the bishop. I think she was trying to get Travis to not take Mimi to Cancun since she would have been serious to Travis. She was supposedly acting like a friend telling Travis what was going on, hoping he would cancel things with Mimi.

This sounds likely.

 

[Applejack]

I agree. Considering that she dropped out of high school, she is very talented. I know people here are so overcome with blind hatred and therefore minimize her actual talent as something a grade five student can do, but if you can look objectively, it is actually very good artwork.

(BTW, I am a professional artist with a Psychology Degree, FWIW.)

Que sera, sera ...

:/ every truly talented artist just collectively placed their heads in their hands at this post. She is not BAD at drawing. But she is far from being good at it. She is at a slightly above average high school level. It's not like not having a high school art course once a week for another year is what kept her from blossoming. They are useless. She's had access to paper and the internet all this time. Sorry but when I see boring, cookie cutter, lifeless portraits like hers getting praised as "true works of art" and selling for hundreds it makes me very sad. 0.0

 

[G&AMom]

Just so we are all on the same page with the text messages.

First, transcribed by LizardQueen74 and Paperwing:

Text from TA to JA, tentatively dated April 2008

Do not call me. And do not text me anything. The next thing I want is this michelle K that is friends with Elena(?) that nobody knows but knows details about my life. Not one other thing ever. Until you have that information. its 15 minutes it would take to gt the info. But you won't take 15 minutes. Why because it is an Fing lie. So either text me you that you are ready to tell the truth or give me your imaginary friend with the worst BS story you have ever told or leave me alone. Its a lie like no other. It is freaking foolish. There is no
way out of it, you have screwed up your story so bad you can't mend it. You are caught. When will you realize that. I do not know. You have til tomorrow. To have me this persons information before I tell all of the hughes' leslie udy, the freemans, your parents and anyone else that matters about all the crazy things you have done. So either fess up or feel the wrath. No matter how bad the truth is I promise you the punishment will be better than the lie. This is worse than your magical email that a mysterious man you've never seen before wrote for you. You insult me by thinking ill believe such crap. nothing else from you til the truth. I already know your lying so why continue. After tomorrow, its gonna get real bad for you. Time to spit it out.

Second, from Nurni filing in July 2010:

Text from TA to JA, dated by Nurmi as 5/10/08

Why don’t you have him come and **** you in the woods, I can only imagine you are so worried about me reading. You are paranoid because you have no respect for people privacy and dare insult me of all people. Someone you have should through your actions you hate more than love by denying me a human right of privacy countless times. You have a lot of freaking nerve. We are all not like you in that aspect.

Last, transcribed by Paperwing:


Text from TA with no replies from JA in between:
05/26/08 at 07:59:15am

I sent you a response to your dire conversation, that I hope youread because you need to read it. Maybe it will spark human emotion in you, something that only seems to exist when it comes to your own problems. But everyone else is just a part of your sick agenda. By the way, your pic comment to Danny Jones makes you look like a pure *advertiser censored*, even more to the people who know you. You should be embarrassed by it. If he knew what I knew about you he'd spit in ur face. Sow ould everyone else. I have never never in my life been hurt so bad by someone. But why do I even say it because you don't care. It doesn't serve your evilness. You couldn't get off your lazy butt to to read it could you. That's the sociopath (I) know so well. it freakin figures. I don't want your apology I want you to understand what I think of you. I want you to understand how evil I think you are. You are the worst thing that ever happened to me.

 

[sacrablue]

I agree. Considering that she dropped out of high school, she is very talented. I know people here are so overcome with blind hatred and therefore minimize her actual talent as something a grade five student can do, but if you can look objectively, it is actually very good artwork.

(BTW, I am a professional artist with a Psychology Degree, FWIW.)

I think that the worst torture for Jodi (if she wasn't so delusional) during her stay in prison would be if she was separated from the rest of the prison population (because she is and would continue to be treated like a rock star amongst them) on DR, with regular reminders of what could have been ... that along with Travis life and reputation, she also sacrificed all of her potential accomplishments as a wife, mother, model, photographer & artist.

Que sera, sera ...

This is the thing that bothers me. This girl obviously suffers from some sort of Delusional Disorder. Is it fair to trick this individual, yell at this individual and play on her weaknesses on an enormous Public scal?. To me we are overkilling JA for her overkill but at least we can see she suffers from some disorders...do we?

 

[GoodGurl]

I just looked it up on the evidence photos. 5/26/08 is the correct date.

http://s1352.beta.photobucket.com/user/tabularasa6/media/oo3_zps6ec4a65d.jpg.html?sort=3&o=90

THANKS! I was thinking I'd better get off the coffee! Not sure where that April date came from...?

And from May 28 to June 2 AFAIK they didn't communicate. Finally a 40 min phone call, but no more texts.

 

[neesaki]

Before the phone call tape was played in the beginning of Jodi's testimony, Nurmi came back from a lunch break asking the DP be taken off the table. Denied by the Judge.

I wasn't aware of that. This is the day when she was obviously very upset and crying, the only time she actually shed real tears, at least as far as I can remember and imo.

 

[PASA]

I used to work in the music hall at House of Blues- the kind of kinetic energy that the courtroom had when JM took over had the same fever pitch when the artists took the stage.

It was immediate and powerful and complete.

JM is the first prosecutor I've seen who has that transfixing command over a group of people. In his next life, he'll come back as a band frontman.

BBM
Very good description of the energy in the courtroom last Thursday afternoon.

 

[PASA]

Juan is back tomorrow,then more jury questions,nurmi gets to question her again then Juan. if there is no more jury questions its on to DT witness's

I saw a few more jury questions placed in the basket Thursday afternoon.

 

[KMouse]

This is the thing that bothers me. This girl obviously suffers from some sort of Delusional Disorder. Is it fair to trick this individual, yell at this individual and play on her weaknesses on an enormous Public scal?. To me we are overkilling JA for her overkill but at least we can see she suffers from some disorders...do we?

She doesn't suffer from anything. It's everybody else that comes into contact with her that suffers. Travis the most, obviously.

If she had any mental health disorders we would know about it as psychiatrists would be testifying.

 

[Ricki]

So people do not have to read sideways.



These are all FROM Travis TO JA April 2008 (I think - if not, its close) (illegible) you have that information. its 15 minutes it would take to gt the info. But you won't take 15 minutes. Why because it is an Fing lie. So either text me you that you are ready to tell the truth or give me your imaginary friend with the worst BS story you have ever told or leave me alone. Its a lie like no other. It is freaking foolish. There is no way out of it, you have screwed up your story so bad you can't mend it. You are caught. When will you realize that. I do not know. You have til tomorrow. to have me this persons information before I tell all of the hughes' leslie udy, the freemans, your parents and anyone else that matters about all the crazy things you have done. So either fess up or feel the wrath. No matter how bad the truth is I promise you the punishment will be better than the lie. This is worse than your magical email that a mysterious man you've never seen before wrote for you. You insult me by thinking ill believe such crap. nothing else from you til the truth. I already know your lying so why continue. After tomorrow, its gonna get real bad for you. Time to spit it out. ----------------------------- These 3 are all part of one long text, no replies from JA in between: 05/26/08 at 07:59:15am I sent you a response to your dire conversation, that I hope youread because you need to read it. Maybe it will spark human emotion in you, something that only seems to exist when it comes to your own problems. But everyone else is just a part of your sick agenda. By the way, your pic comment to Danny Jones makes you look like a pure *advertiser censored*, even more to the people who know you. You should be embarrassed by it. If he knew what I knew about you he'd spit in ur face. Sow ould everyone else. I have never never in my life been hurt so bad by someone. But why do I even say it because you don't care. It doesn't serve your evilness. 05/26/08 at 08:35:02am You couldn't get off your lazy butt to to read it could you. That's the sociopath (I) know so well. it freakin figures 05/26/08 at 09:11:11am I don't want your apology I want you to understand what I think of you. I want you to understand how evil I think you are. You are the worst thing that ever happened to me.

BBM,
JA was black mailing TA with something. Whether it was, the sex tapes or whether it was blackmail to get her a trip to Cancun, who knows. TA found out.
Travis was ready to expose her to any friends that she may have cared about. Whatever it may have been it was really going to cause her some embarrassment and ruin her so called reputation. The real Jody was going to be revealed. JA was not about to have that happen.

 

[getReal]

... I wish there was some way to constantly remind Jodi while in prison of the pain she caused, instead of being able to compartmentalize it into a dusty forgotten file in her brain. She needs to remember prison is not the focus; it is her crime.

IMO, Jodi is unaffected by any pain she has inflicted on others.

She would only be hurt by reminders of her failures: Marriage, Love, Motherhood, Recognition of her art/photographic talents. All those are wrapped up in her sense of self-worth.

She has proven that she can "retcon" her story to romanticize it in her favor.

In her mind, Travis actually loved her -- she was not just a receptacle and plaything for his amusement. In her mind, Travis desired her and only pleasured himself to thoughts of her. In her mind, Travis proposed to her "a few times". He wanted HER.

She knows there was never any abuse or pedophilia.

Her years of time alone on DR will be spent reliving the travels and the sex and the gifts.

The stuff she has testified to will all be forgotten as she relives the good times -- whether they were real or fantasy.

 

[GoodGurl]

Just so we are all on the same page with the text messages.

First, transcribed by LizardQueen74 and Paperwing:

Text from TA to JA, tentatively dated April 2008

Do not call me. And do not text me anything. The next thing I want is this michelle K that is friends with Elena(?) that nobody knows but knows details about my life. Not one other thing ever. Until you have that information. its 15 minutes it would take to gt the info. But you won't take 15 minutes. Why because it is an Fing lie. So either text me you that you are ready to tell the truth or give me your imaginary friend with the worst BS story you have ever told or leave me alone. Its a lie like no other. It is freaking foolish. There is no
way out of it, you have screwed up your story so bad you can't mend it. You are caught. When will you realize that. I do not know. You have til tomorrow. To have me this persons information before I tell all of the hughes' leslie udy, the freemans, your parents and anyone else that matters about all the crazy things you have done. So either fess up or feel the wrath. No matter how bad the truth is I promise you the punishment will be better than the lie. This is worse than your magical email that a mysterious man you've never seen before wrote for you. You insult me by thinking ill believe such crap. nothing else from you til the truth. I already know your lying so why continue. After tomorrow, its gonna get real bad for you. Time to spit it out.

Second, from Nurni filing in July 2010:

Text from TA to JA, dated by Nurmi as 5/10/08

Why don’t you have him come and **** you in the woods, I can only imagine you are so worried about me reading. You are paranoid because you have no respect for people privacy and dare insult me of all people. Someone you have should through your actions you hate more than love by denying me a human right of privacy countless times. You have a lot of freaking nerve. We are all not like you in that aspect.

Last, transcribed by Paperwing:


Text from TA with no replies from JA in between:
05/26/08 at 07:59:15am

I sent you a response to your dire conversation, that I hope youread because you need to read it. Maybe it will spark human emotion in you, something that only seems to exist when it comes to your own problems. But everyone else is just a part of your sick agenda. By the way, your pic comment to Danny Jones makes you look like a pure *advertiser censored*, even more to the people who know you. You should be embarrassed by it. If he knew what I knew about you he'd spit in ur face. Sow ould everyone else. I have never never in my life been hurt so bad by someone. But why do I even say it because you don't care. It doesn't serve your evilness. You couldn't get off your lazy butt to to read it could you. That's the sociopath (I) know so well. it freakin figures. I don't want your apology I want you to understand what I think of you. I want you to understand how evil I think you are. You are the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Thank you for clearing that up! I remember her saying on the stand that things were "really bad" for them right around the time she finally called mom and did move. This all fits with that. But apparently she was able to figure out ways to get him to make up with her. I think the guy must have loved her?

 

[sacrablue]

She doesn't suffer from anything. It's everybody else that comes into contact with her that suffers. Travis the most, obviously.

If she had any mental health disorders we would know about it as psychiatrists would be testifying.

So you think her behavior is normal?

 

[Myvice]

I still have to think that these texts and angry messages after May 10 have to do with the phone tape. She "lost" the phone at that time fearing Travis would come and try to take it from her. Or could she have called her new phone from the old phone and transferred the recording?

I think he let her stop on June 4 because she promised to delete anything else she may have in front of him so he would KNOW it was truly gone. Then they had one more session planning to delete the photos then and there so Jodi had the chance to see how they were deleted.

 

[LizardQueen74]

I thought it was May 28???

There are 2 different exchanges. The April one (which is the Michelle K/Elena one) and then the May one (which was broken up into 3 text messages.)

The May one is the infamous "sociopath" and "you're the worst thing to have happened to me" texts. In the May ones he refers to an email he sent her and tells her she needs to read. This is a FB message that Flores reads to himself when on the stand, but does not read out loud. This FB message is the "dildo w/a heartbeat" message.

I don't believe it's in evidence and we have not seen the full text of it.

 

[geevee]

I do not know if the gun jammed or not. JA got a head shotwith pistol while TA was in the shower. One shot and TA came out of the shower enclosure knocking JA to the side while he goes to vanity in total shock to see the damage to his face. Why the gun was not used any more I don't know but KA does have a knife so she attempts to inflict a mortal wound to TA's back but TA sees her in the mirror and turns towards JA. Defends himself after taking a knife wound to the chest. Realizes he needs to flee turns towards bedroom for help phone something but colapses to the floor. JA gets him on the side and back. Screams become terrifying. JA silences and kills TA with one cut to the throat.

I also think that's why she cut his throat, because at that point he was too badly hurt to defend himself or get to the stairs (or wherever his phone was, do we know?) so he started yelling. I still haven't decided which I think came first, if she shot was last I think it was to be sure he was dead before she got into (and vulnerable herself) the shower to clean off, but shooting him first makes a great deal of sense, she thought he would die easy, one shot, all done but she had to go to plan B with the knife when it didn't turn out so easy. Both make a lot of sense to me.

In the lower corner of the sitting shower pic I think I see flying blood, and that also would make sense whether she first shot him or him in the neck with the knife milliseconds before the pic was accidentally snapped when her right hand flexed as her left hand did whatever it did. But holding both a weapon and camera in her hands at the same time just doesn't sound like someone who intends to deliver a deadly shot or blow. Okay, I'm rambling like someone we all know so well so I'll hush up here.

 

[thefragile7393]

As most criminologists know crime and sentencing in the USA are very race, income, and gender sensitive.

Given the JA TA trial circumstances=

*if JA had been a black male and killed a white female he would have been long since convicted of 1st degree murder and given the death penalty with +/- NO media coverage.

* If JA had been a black male killing a black female the same result as above would ensue plus NO media coverage.

*IF JA had been a celebrity black (non Caucasian) male killing a white or black female, ala OJ Simpson, South Africa’s favored son Pretorius (sic), a lesser conviction no death penalty and media coverage.

*If JA had been a white middle class male killing a black female (lower SE class ) long trial resulting in a diminished verdict and possible exoneration. No media coverage.

*IF JA had been Caucasian male killing a Caucasian female (both middle class) long trial but probable 1st degree verdict. Media coverage dependent on “titillation factor”.

COMMENT – of US homicides per year a small percentage of them involve middle class Caucasians. My guess is less than 1% of > 60,000. Family /spousal Caucasian homicides are relatively rare and highly desirable by TV crime entertainment producers such as 48 Hours. Black on black crime is of virtually no interest to network and cable TV producers. Attractive white female murderers are very much in demand and given circumstances are insured celebrity status by Internet TV blogs etc.

In the US, crime “gaping” is a popular past time much like crossword puzzles. The JA trial in particular has all the elements of sensationalism and luridness. As such JA is insured a place in the American Criminal Pantheon – an honorific that I’m sure she covets. Her crime is one of those that fulfills all criteria for a BINGO. White on white crime coupled with looks passion and gore. This trial has produced such a feeding frenzy – similar to OJ and CA – that authors are racing to publish the definitive book at the moment a verdict is issued. Also the JA Trial will engender a cottage industry of books and commentary that should endure for years. Book publishers blogs and TV producers estimate the entertainment value of the JA Trial is equal to millions and millions of dollars.

It is highly likely that a similar kind of homicide has occurred in the recent past but perpetrated by lower socio economic class, non Caucasian males and or females. Such events are devoid of any entertainment value and are merely entered into the police blotter as another statistic.

she isn't Caucasian. She is a rare female sociopath/psychopath and-in another rarity-taking the stand. Her crime (the brutality of it) is relatively rare among females. Those are the reasons why its fascinating. The sex part is for the media only....who hypes that part up.


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