Intruder theories only - RDI theories not allowed! *READ FIRST POST* #2

[Mama2JML]

Atually, it was your posts linked above that told me where to look. (I'm really not as smart as it may seem.)

My posts? I didn't notice any mention of a source (other than hearsay re: LHP), but I also didn't see where Globe mentions LHP as the source.

 

[Mama2JML]

I see it now, otg...

Ivy wrote: "I believe Burke was the 'molester,' if it could be called that. I have no proof he would 'act out' in this way, but apparently visitors to the Ramsey home reported catching Burke and JonBenet playing 'doctor.' The Globe, which I realize is a tabloid, reported this, but so did Ryan Ross, who is a Denver-based legal affairs expert and author of crime-related articles who's even appeared on Nightline as an authority on legal matters. ​

Ryan Ross too? I'll look for more info...

"Linda Hoffmann-Pugh said she sometimes found JonBenet and Burke in Burke's bed together and that she thought from the way they reacted when she walked in, that they were engaged in sexual play. She also said that once, when she walked into one of their bedrooms to put clean clothes into a drawer, Burke and JonBenet were in a blanket tent on the floor, and Burke yelled for LHP to GET OUT! She said she suspected something naughty was going on in that tent. None of this is proof of anything, especially that Burke killed JonBenet, but I don't find it hard to believe that 6- and 9-year-old siblings would play doctor.

Years ago, some posters at Justice Watch whose kids attended Burke's school said that around the time JonBenet died--before, I think--kids at the school were playing choking games. I don't know if the games were erotic asphixiation games or whether cords--or hands--were used. As far as I know, BPD didn't investigate the matter. Maybe no one told them, or, if someone did, maybe the BPD didn't bother to investigate. Why would they? The police never considered Burke a suspect in JonBenet's death."​

I am still curious as to where the LHP story originates. She must have been "outed" as the source?... I just have not found confirmation of this, but it would make sense.

Source: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=54153&postcount=43"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Once Again[/ame]

 

[Meara]

My apologies for the delay in posting a reply. Short version: it couldn't be helped ) :

So, about frost in Boulder on the night of Dec. 25 -- Actually, conditions did allow for frost if the low was 32* F since frost forms when the dew point is at or below freezing. Temperature is normally measured above the ground, where the air is warmer, so ground temperature that night was below freezing. As well, some microclimate areas would have had air temperatures below 32* F . (I offered a low of -12* F based on posts in an old WS thread by someone who lived in Boulder at the time. I just read the darn thing, but I can't locate it now to share, so I'll go with your 32*.)

Below are the requested links to articles stating that frost forms at night. They're listed just as I found them in the search results; i.e., they weren't cherry-picked. In all of them the
formation of frost is explained solely in terms of the conditions under which it occurs, not in terms of specific times when these conditions are met. None of them mention frost forming shortly before dawn. If it were true that frost only, or usually, forms at or near that time, it is more likely than not that that fact would have appeared in at least one article.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/wea00/wea00039.htm
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Frost.html
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Hoar-Frost.htm
http://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/mitgc/article/2000151.pdf
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/frost/forecasting-frost
http://www.gardening.cornell.edu/weather/frost.pdf
http://education.nationalgeographic.com/education/encyclopedia/frost/?ar_a=1
http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/garden/az1002.pdf
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/hil/hil-705.html
http://www.awis.com/Misc/Fact_Sheets.htm
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~cliff/Roadway2.htm


The evolution of your comments about the frost is curious. Earlier on, you say the intruder would have come and gone before the frost formed; then, that there couldn't have been frost; and finally, that the frost, which seems to have been there after all, doesn't tell us whether or not someone was on the balcony. I'll try to answer you at the different stages.

Is it possible that there was someone on JBR's balcony the night of Dec. 25 - 26 who did not leave prints in the frost observed there by police on the morning of the 26th? Yes, a case can be made for that. However, I don't think the case can be made successfully based on the assumption that frost did not form until well after the time of the murder, or the assumption that frost could not have formed on the balcony that night at all.

I agree that the frost in itself doesn't tell us anything for sure. I'm guessing we also agree that one detail considered apart from the context of other evidence rarely does.

 

[Mama2JML]

An interview and summary of Smit's analysis was published in the Rocky Mountain News in May of 2001. Standing in Her Shoes, by Todd Hartman:

http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2001/May/05/standing-in-her-shoes/

 

[Mama2JML]

Lou Smit continued his investigation into JonBenet's murder for nearly a decade after this article's publication, so his overall theory certainly must have evolved. Robert Whitson's book, Injustice (contributions from Lou Smit), is evidence of this. Regardless, Smit's analysis in 2001 offers a glimpse into his line of thinking

An excerpt from Standing in her Shoes, by Todd Hartman:

"This is what retired detective Lou Smit believes likely happened the night JonBenet Ramsey died, based on several interviews with Smit.

While the Ramseys were out Christmas evening, 1996, an intruder entered their home by removing a grate from a basement window well and climbing through an unlocked window into the so-called train room. The person — probably a criminal comfortable with high risks — familiarized himself with the complex layout of the house, or may have been familiar with it already.

Intending to kidnap JonBenet, he wrote the ransom note on one of the pads lying around the house and waited, perhaps in a second-floor guest room over the garage and adjacent to JonBenet's room, where he had a good view of the Ramseys arriving home. When they arrived about 10 p.m., he hid under the guest room bed and waited for the family to fall asleep. Then, he sneaked into JonBenet's room, fired a stun gun against the sleeping girl's body to knock her out and carried her downstairs to the basement.

The intruder tried to put JonBenet inside a hard-sided suitcase he had found in the house so he could take her away without being spotted with her. Either she didn't fit inside or the suitcase couldn't be hoisted out of the basement window.

The killer then decided to act on his sexual urges. He made a garrote using one of Patsy Ramsey's paintbrushes in the basement. He tied ligatures around the girl's wrists to enhance a bondage fantasy. He sexually assaulted her with one piece of the broken paintbrush.

At some point JonBenet struggled. She screamed and tried to remove the garrote from her neck. She was probably stun-gunned a second time and eventually was strangled. The intruder hit her in the head with a heavy object, fracturing her skull to make sure she was dead.

The killer left the house, probably through the basement window, possibly using the suitcase as a step up to the window 51 inches above the floor."​

Source: http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2001/May/05/standing-in-her-shoes/

 

[Mama2JML]

"While the Ramseys were out Christmas evening, 1996, an intruder entered their home by removing a grate from a basement window well and climbing through an unlocked window into the so-called train room. The person — probably a criminal comfortable with high risks — familiarized himself with the complex layout of the house, or may have been familiar with it already."

Did the BPD look into individuals that were quite familiar with the home, but less familiar with the inhabitants? (I.e. Contractors, Painters, Plumbers, Electricians, etc.)

JonBenet's name is not used in the RN, perhaps her name &/or the spelling was unknown to the perp? Patsy's not mentioned either. Was it someone only John had "dealt with", written checks to, etc.?

"Intending to kidnap JonBenet, he wrote the ransom note on one of the pads lying around the house and waited, perhaps in a second-floor guest room over the garage and adjacent to JonBenet's room, where he had a good view of the Ramseys arriving home. When they arrived about 10 p.m., he hid under the guest room bed and waited for the family to fall asleep. Then, he sneaked into JonBenet's room, fired a stun gun against the sleeping girl's body to knock her out and carried her downstairs to the basement.

The intruder tried to put JonBenet inside a hard-sided suitcase he had found in the house so he could take her away without being spotted with her. Either she didn't fit inside or the suitcase couldn't be hoisted out of the basement window."

Seems plausible to me...


Source: http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2001/May/05/standing-in-her-shoes/

 

[Ravyn]

I'm on the fence here.The one thing that gets me about this case is Joe Barnhill stated he saw John Andrew,Christmas Day..One would think he would know John Andrew if he saw him..

 

[Mama2JML]

I'm on the fence here.The one thing that gets me about this case is Joe Barnhill stated he saw John Andrew,Christmas Day..One would think he would know John Andrew if he saw him..

I am curious about this too. Mr. Barnhill may have witnessed a male approach the Ramsey home, pass through the yard, etc. I believe Barnhill's testimony may be relevant and related, but the identity of the male in question is not certain.

IRMI (p. 71):

"Joe [Barnhill] had told the police he had seen JonBenet’s older half-brother, John Andrew, in Boulder on the evening of December 25. John Andrew claimed to have been in Atlanta at the time. During the interview Barnhill sheepishly told us he had made a mistake and apologized, saying that he probably would not even recognize the young man in a crowd. That went a long way toward firming up John Andrew’s alibi."​

(Thomas & Davis, 2000)​

 

[Tawny]

Edit: Forgot which thread this was LOL! Mama covered it anyway :seeya:

 

[Nom de plume]

Did the BPD look into individuals that were quite familiar with the home, but less familiar with the inhabitants? (I.e. Contractors, Painters, Plumbers, Electricians, etc.)

JonBenet's name is not used in the RN, perhaps her name &/or the spelling was unknown to the perp? Patsy's not mentioned either. Was it someone only John had "dealt with", written checks to, etc.?



Seems plausible to me...


Source: http://m.rockymountainnews.com/news/2001/May/05/standing-in-her-shoes/

BBM Yes, very thoroughly.

 

[ZBob]

I am curious about this too. Mr. Barnhill may have witnessed a male approach the Ramsey home, pass through the yard, etc. I believe Barnhill's testimony may be relevant and related, but the identity of the male in question is not certain.

IRMI (p. 71):

"Joe [Barnhill] had told the police he had seen JonBenet’s older half-brother, John Andrew, in Boulder on the evening of December 25. John Andrew claimed to have been in Atlanta at the time. During the interview Barnhill sheepishly told us he had made a mistake and apologized, saying that he probably would not even recognize the young man in a crowd. That went a long way toward firming up John Andrew’s alibi."​

(Thomas & Davis, 2000)​

Barnhill may have seen someone for sure, but it wasn't JAR. It's not hard for LE to clear someone who is across the country on Christmas day and then flying back out from Atlanta the morning after Christmas.

 

[Mama2JML]

Does anyone know more about the house &/or the person referenced by LS?

John Ramsey '98 BDA Interview:

"0758
20 LOU SMIT: We had heard that there
21 was a caretaker in one of those two houses in
22 the back, someone was caring for the house right
23 about that time. I don't know if you know
24 anything about that or if you had heard anything
25 on that?
0759
1 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't. We had
2 heard once this lady lived here before these
3 people bought it.
4 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE.)
5 JOHN RAMSEY: She was a single
6 divorced women or divorced woman, no kids, was
7 going to CU, and somebody told us that she took
8 in boarders and -- which we didn't know. It was
9 kind of a surprise. But she had sold the house
10 and -- that house actually sat empty for quite a
11 while. There was something -- there were some
12 students who lived in that house after she sold
13 it and these people moved in.
0759
14 LOU SMIT: 777?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. These people
16 did not move in right away. It was maybe almost
17 a year later."​

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That is interesting and something I never caught before.

I wonder if that was ever followed up on???

 

[Mama2JML]

That is interesting and something I never caught before.

I wonder if that was ever followed up on???

One can only hope, but I'm not confident the tenant was thoroughly investigated, if at all. I question the investigative efforts of LE when it comes to non-Ramseys. A dance instructor @, & a shareholder of, the studio where Jonbenet & "Amy" took classes was not even questioned.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I see paula's book has a release date now of August 2014..

I linked it in the book thread. I am curious to see what it says

 

[Mama2JML]

A significantly curious POI, "never a suspect" per the BPD, was only questioned after he called Beckner, himself, from out of state. (He left town just after the murder.) The conversation lasted only minutes, and his alibi was flimsy at best; said he was not in Boulder & had credit card receipts from days prior to the 25th and days after the 26th.

 

[Tawny]

A significantly curious POI, "never a suspect" per the BPD, was only questioned after he called Beckner, himself, from out of state. (He left town just after the murder.) The conversation lasted only minutes, and his alibi was flimsy at best; said he was not in Boulder & had credit card receipts from days prior to the 25th and days after the 26th.

Who is this in reference to?

 

[Mama2JML]

Who is this in reference to?

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-john-stephen-gigax.htm

 

[otg]

(snipped)

Does anyone know more about the house &/or the person referenced by LS?

John Ramsey '98 BDA Interview:

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682445/Acquaintance Intruder Theories

...and:
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-alley-housesitter.htm

...and:
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-glenn-meyer.htm

 

[Tawny]

Are we allowed to discuss Gigax?