Is TH Responsible in any way for the Disappearance of Kyron? **NO DISCUSSION**

[audreyfan]

Perhaps Desiree is Canadian has dual citizenship.

If you are paying out of pocket, I bet Canada is cheaper. Paying out of pocket in the US if you are uninsured is impossible. If you are a millionaire, even, you won't stay that way for long. That 30K from Canada would have been at least 400% more for the same treatment in the US. If you are insured here, your insurance negotiates with the provider to get the lowest rates, which they then pay in accordance with the terms of your plan. Thus, there is nothing to lower the rates if you have no insurance company negotiating on your behalf. In Canada, citizenry is under the same rubric so maybe not the same amount of differential?

 

[21merc7]

According to TMH's divorce attorney, Houze's retainer was "grossly overstated."

And yet KH's petition states that the amount was stated by TMH in an email to a third party (which suggests to me that it is amongst the text and email messages LE has shared with KH).

I am reluctant to accuse either side of lying without further evidence and yet, clearly, both cannot be accurate as stated.

Could it be that it was a typo?

If so, I will be laughing hysterically. Back in my misspent (but very much enjoyed) youth, I rode horses. I was at a show with a friend who was looking for a young prospect and was rather taken by a chestnut gelding, very flashy, nice mover but no real training or accomplishments yet.

Back then (and probably still today), there was a sort of choreography to these things. She didn't want to reveal her interest directly, so she sent me to look at the horse and talk to the trainer to get a feel for around how much he was thinking the colt was worth.

I chatted up the trainer, went with him to get the colt out and move him around a little, admired him a lot and then asked what ballpark figure the trainer was thinking of. He replied "thirty five" and I went back to my friend with that info.

Now, I thought the trainer meant "thirty five hundred" which at that time was at the high end of what a promising colt would cost (and a not impossible figure for a new car... does that date me?). This was somewhat higher than my friend was wanting to pay but it was a given that the trainer was no doubt overstating the figure a bit.

So my friend took the next step, went to talk to the trainer herself. She came back laughing her head off in disbelief.

Turns out that the trainer had meant thirty five THOUSAND dollars!!!

WHOA!

If Houze's retainer was actually $35K rather than $350K, that would really change the implications of his involvement in the case, I think.

Lol, GrainnDhu, this is what I have been thinking all along. Something like this could have made a big deal out of a simple mistake. Goodness knows I look back at my posts here and see they are not coherent, missing half of my thoughts, misspelled, and do not imply just what I was trying to say. Same in conversations sad to say. (I am not a very good communicator, nor do I absorb all that I hear. Sad, but true.)

I also know by having experienced it that this is exactly what happens with media. Half a sentence, in a rush, don't listen to everything and off they fly with something that has no basis in reality. Just a stretch or a belief and there you have it. Scandalous sensationalism that has nothing to do with the persons and case involved.

I'm still giggling over the "sexting" while typing. Maybe an o was near a 0. :crazy:

 

[21merc7]

SBM

I know from personal experience that in my state, emergency ROs are issued on the basis of allegations alone. No supporting documentation needed.

The judge examines the petition to make sure that the allegations fall within the parameters set out under law for emergency ROs; if they do, the order is automatically granted.

If the respondent chooses to challenge the RO, then the petitioner has to present evidence to the court (a show-cause hearing).

If the respondent does not choose to challenge the RO, then the emergency restraining order automatically becomes a lasting restraining order.

I know that many other states operate the same way.

My example would be the 2005 David Letterman case, where a woman filed for and received a temporary RO against David Letterman, prohibiting him from coming within three yards of her. She alleged that he was using code words, gestures and eye expressions during his TV show to convey secret messages to her.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,1144343,00.html

I doubt that the judge in the case really believed the petitioner but the judge's beliefs are not called into question at the time an emergency RO is issued.

I know that the reason my state (which is not New Mexico) does it this way is to balance the needs of victims against the rights of respondents. A victim of domestic violence may need the immediate protection of a restraining order but not have enough time to immediately gather the supporting documentation.

The respondent's right to freedom of movement and association should not be unduly abridged, so the respondent is given the guarantee of a swift hearing if they choose to challenge (in my state, the show-cause hearing must happen within ten days after the respondent files to challenge).

It's not perfect solution but it's the best that legislators could come up with.

I too have to wonder just how true this LS story is. I realize the Judge had to issue the RO, but still have to wonder.

The bold part, OMG, cannot believe that one went through. Again, the Judge had to do his/her job.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Lots of comments on the oregon news site are getting pulled by mods. It appears.

IMHO

Maybe this has to do with the 200 subpoenas? Especially if friends and family of TH were posting under assumed names. They could probably tell by their IPs and their computer histories or favorite lists.

 

[Patty G]

I too have to wonder just how true this LS story is. I realize the Judge had to issue the RO, but still have to wonder.

The bold part, OMG, cannot believe that one went through. Again, the Judge had to do his/her job.

I feel the same way.

It's rather easy to get a temporary RO, however once both parties show up in court for the RO hearing, then the judge listens to both parties regarding the RO; at least this is the way it is in Florida. A friend of mine had a temp RO served and then once he collected all the evidence and presented it to the Judge, the temp RO was totally dismissed.

 

[Calliope]

Maybe this has to do with the 200 subpoenas? Especially if friends and family of TH were posting under assumed names. They could probably tell by their IPs and their computer histories or favorite lists.

Would LE waste their time handing out subpoenas for online comments?

 

[gliving]

I'd think if Desiree was disabled from kidney failure and unable to work, she'd be eligible for medicaid assistance in the US. The travel to Canada for health care must have been important for her to rack up $30K in medical bills.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Would LE waste their time handing out subpoenas for online comments?

Because we have freedom of speech and LE needs a reason to use quotes from a newspaper website in a criminal case. They would have to prove a connection between the posts and the real people behind the words in order to be valid in court. Anyone can say they are someone's cousin, but we don't really know. On the other hand, rumors have flown that DeDe and Terri were both on some websites talking about Kyron, but they need proof that it was really them - therefore, the subpoenas. It's not a waste of time because it sets up state of mind as well as possible motives depending on what they wrote. It might also be a way to discover other accomplices if their IP addresses were somewhere close to where Kyron disappeared.

I believe the way it works is that the owners of the website would be served with a subpoena to release private IPs and email addresses of the people who wrote the messages.

 

[Emma Peel]

According to TMH's divorce attorney, Houze's retainer was "grossly overstated."

And yet KH's petition states that the amount was stated by TMH in an email to a third party (which suggests to me that it is amongst the text and email messages LE has shared with KH).

I am reluctant to accuse either side of lying without further evidence and yet, clearly, both cannot be accurate as stated.

Could it be that it was a typo?

If so, I will be laughing hysterically. Back in my misspent (but very much enjoyed) youth, I rode horses. I was at a show with a friend who was looking for a young prospect and was rather taken by a chestnut gelding, very flashy, nice mover but no real training or accomplishments yet.

Back then (and probably still today), there was a sort of choreography to these things. She didn't want to reveal her interest directly, so she sent me to look at the horse and talk to the trainer to get a feel for around how much he was thinking the colt was worth.

I chatted up the trainer, went with him to get the colt out and move him around a little, admired him a lot and then asked what ballpark figure the trainer was thinking of. He replied "thirty five" and I went back to my friend with that info.

Now, I thought the trainer meant "thirty five hundred" which at that time was at the high end of what a promising colt would cost (and a not impossible figure for a new car... does that date me?). This was somewhat higher than my friend was wanting to pay but it was a given that the trainer was no doubt overstating the figure a bit.

So my friend took the next step, went to talk to the trainer herself. She came back laughing her head off in disbelief.

Turns out that the trainer had meant thirty five THOUSAND dollars!!!

WHOA!

If Houze's retainer was actually $35K rather than $350K, that would really change the implications of his involvement in the case, I think.

Yes, my hunch from the get-go:

I'm thinking an estimated budget was determined of $350K if MFH goes to trial. 10% retainer requested & required for the time being. Typo OR misunderstanding between some very odd sexts between some very odd people.

I'm also thinking, for practical purposes, it's possible they haven't even begun talking at much length about (Terri and Houze) the missing Kyron thing.

Particularly as we've been told by LE that ever since Terri has secured Houze as counsel, they have not requested anything from her or Houze...

FWIW, because of course I am just hunching. :cow:

 

[tlcya]

GrainneDhu: Thank you so very much for your comprehensive post (#253) regarding what is and what is not required in order to get a TRO issued. I have gone round and round in debate with various members trying to explain that an allegation does not mean fact in these instances and that TRO are issued with little or zero evidence ot back up the allegations every day. The point of the TRO is to provide immediate protection to someone who MAY be in harm's way. If the respondent wants to dispute it that is handled at a later hearing.

Thank you thank you thank you for articulating the process so well. If you do not mind I would love to borrow your post next time the great debate over the TRO comes up (giving you proper credit of course).

 

[Kimster]

THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR THE MEEK!

If you get upset about other opinions that differ from your own, then please exit quietly. :blushing:

This is for the debate of TH's involvement. There is a lot of spattering of this topic through the threads and it's getting distracting.

Remember, keep your posts from addressing other posters directly when you have an opposing view.

This is not a general discussion thread, folks! If there is a topic other than this that you'd like to discuss, like why Desiree went to Canada for medical reasons, please open a new thread!

This is supposed to be a debate thread about Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Jo in Calif]

The expo was open for parents to visit the exhibits from 8-8:45. At 8:45 the kids were to meet in class to tour the exhibits in small groups. Many of the kids ride the bus to school and could not get there early to see the exhibits. At 10:00, they would reconvene in their classrooms to start their regular school day. I think it confused everyone at first when they were saying school didn't start until 10. It started at the regular 8:45 time, but their regular class activities (taking roll, etc.) did not start until 10.

O.K. I'm still confused about this. Kaine said the reason for Terry to take the truck, was to bring the project home, but he stated she did not stay for the duration of the science fair. So I guess my confusion is, what was Terry supposed to be doing from 8:45 until 10:00, if all the students were in their class, at 8:45, broken into small group's and toured the fair. Have we had any conformation from the school, that this was the way it went that morning. I know Carol Moultin stated this and the other little 7 year old (cant remember his name other than T) Do we have a msm report about this?

 

[Kimster]

THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR THE MEEK!

If you get upset about other opinions that differ from your own, then please exit quietly. :blushing:

This is for the debate of TH's involvement. There is a lot of spattering of this topic through the threads and it's getting distracting.

Remember, keep your posts from addressing other posters directly when you have an opposing view.

This is not a general discussion thread, folks! If there is a topic other than this that you'd like to discuss, like why Desiree went to Canada for medical reasons, please open a new thread!

This is supposed to be a debate thread about Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearance.

 

[Jo in Calif]

This is not a general discussion thread, folks! If there is a topic other than this that you'd like to discuss, like why Desiree went to Canada for medical reasons, please open a new thread!

This is supposed to be a debate thread about Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearance.

If this is for me, I'm confused. I think Terry is involved because she says she left Kyron at his class at 8:45 and the science fair didn't end until 10:00. Kaine said she wanted the truck to bring the project home but didn't stay for the duration of the science fair that ended at 10:00 If the students were supposed to be in their class at 8:45, what was she supposed to do until 10:00? Or any of the other parents for that matter. If she left the school any time before 10:00, with Kyron he wouldn't have been missed until roll call at 10:00. With the Dr. appointment thrown in there, she had it made to leave with him, in her mind. This is all MOO.

 

[Kimster]

If this is for me, I'm confused. I think Terry is involved because she says she left Kyron at his class at 8:45 and the science fair didn't end until 10:00. Kaine said she wanted the truck to bring the project home but didn't stay for the duration of the science fair that ended at 10:00 If the students were supposed to be in their class at 8:45, what was she supposed to do until 10:00? Or any of the other parents for that matter. If she left the school any time before 10:00, with Kyron he wouldn't have been missed until roll call at 10:00. With the Dr. appointment thrown in there, she had it made to leave with him, in her mind. This is all MOO.

It was for many.

Thanks for clarifying though because I didn't read you that way. :wink:

Good deal!

 

[Annazed]

I am wondering to what degree the drinking problem that Kaine maintains that Terri has (has?) might have something to do with the disappearance of Kyron.

As they say in 12-circles, an alcoholic in their disease can seek the company of "low companions."

Kaine spoke of the drinking problems as having been in the past, then seemed to say that now he is not sure. My own experience has been that a person with an alcohol abuse and dependence problem so severe that it results in a DUI that involves child endangerment is a person with a very big problem. I didn't hear anything from him about her being "in recovery" or any of the other terms that couples struggling together might use to describe their battle with such a problem. So, maybe Terri just tried to deal with it on her own, and maybe she failed at least to some degree given the friends telling Kaine about the alcohol sneaking in their homes. Sadly, my own experience has been that people with alcohol problems this severe (impaired driving, surreptitious imbibing) do not fare well when the problem is not faced full on and dealt with in a supportive way on a daily basis. Also, a person with a constitutional inability to be truthful and honest in their dealings in life doesn’t fare that well even if they are going through the motions of recovery.

I think that it is possible that Terri is an alcoholic fully in her disease. Drinking oneself to sleep is the least of it in such a situation. Daytime drinking is common and far easier to conceal than one might think. Steroids and fat-burners would not be needed (though if also in the mix then things could be really unpredictable, the same for prescription antidepressants), alcohol consumed in this way creates serious mental disturbance. Poor Kyron, I doubt that his days were without fear and anxiety around an alcohol abusing caretaker (if that is the case).

Back to my theories about the low companions; maybe there is a bar where Terri dropped in every now and then. Maybe she met someone there, someone who took advantage of her being not entirely in charge of herself and made a move on Kyron or that she even enlisted to help her dispose of him. I certainly think that her interactions with the LS and with MC indicate an extreme lack of appropriate inhibition that is often associated with alcohol abuse in women. Obviously, her attempting to recruit the LS to murder Kaine (an assertion that I for one do believe) goes to the idea that she has stepped outside of the confines of rational interaction with other people and entered into a toxic or diseased mindset.

I think that it is also possible that Kyron saw or heard things that Terri might go to extreme lengths to attempt to keep hidden. Alcoholics in their disease are very caught up in lies and concealment and perception of the appropriate scale of problems and human interactions and their appropriate responses is seriously distorted. For you or me the idea that a little child could be your “enemy” and that one might feel compelled to strike out at a child is unimaginable, for an abusing alcoholic it makes perfect sense. A part of me wonders if Terri felt that that Friday was her last chance to stop Kyron from telling Desiree and Tony something that in her distorted thinking must not be told.

I also think that it is possible that the much maligned DS is an AA contact. AA members who constantly “slip” or even lie about their drinking (for years) are quite common in the 12-step world and I think that it is possible that Terri could very well be such a person, manipulating the support and good intentions of other members and seeking attention and self aggrandizement, not recovery there. AA is heaven for narcissists who can talk endlessly about themselves and lie with impunity because for the most part what is said in AA stays in AA (and that, for the most part, is how it should be). Well-meaning AA members who sponsor, help or support other AA members might not see what is really going on. In short, some AA people there for support of Terri might easily be duped and initially feel that AA anonymity trumps the need to fully disclose what Terri has told them. If so, maybe recent revelations have disabused them of that notion.

I hope that this speculation in within the bounds of the site TOS

 

[Aedrys]

Something occurred to me this morning when I was thinking about TH's involvement or the involvement of a pedophile. I have to say, the stars must have aligned if a pedophile did this. Not only would TH would be a good fall person because of her timeline not adding up, but there's a confusing appointment that completely covers the pedophile getting Kyron and etc. So not only does this pedophile get lucky with a suspicious stepmom to take the blame, there is also the double luck of there being confusion over a doctor's appointment to give the pedophile plenty of time with Kyron.

That would be the luckiest pedophile I have ever heard of. Now if there was no confusing appointment, a pedophile taking Kyron would make a lot more sense to me. I just can't believe a pedophile would ever be that lucky.

 

[nursebeeme]

poor Kaine... he wishes her murder plot would have "went through" because Kyron might still be here!

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...nes-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

 

[cypress]

Something occurred to me this morning when I was thinking about TH's involvement or the involvement of a pedophile. I have to say, the stars must have aligned if a pedophile did this. Not only would TH would be a good fall person because of her timeline not adding up, but there's a confusing appointment that completely covers the pedophile getting Kyron and etc. So not only does this pedophile get lucky with a suspicious stepmom to take the blame, there is also the double luck of there being confusion over a doctor's appointment to give the pedophile plenty of time with Kyron.

That would be the luckiest pedophile I have ever heard of. Now if there was no confusing appointment, a pedophile taking Kyron would make a lot more sense to me. I just can't believe a pedophile would ever be that lucky.

IMHO, we must consider the possibility that the doctor's appointment became confusing only in retrospect. Obviously, the school system doesn't want to bear any responsibility for Kyron being abducted. I go back to TP's statement about what he witnessed the teacher say that morning, and when asked why Kyron was missing, she said he was getting a drink of water or in the bathroom. If the teacher was so clear that day was the day of Kyron's appointment, why wasn't it her initial response to a question about Kyron's whereabouts?

IMHO, there's a bit of CYAing going on with regard to the doctor's appointment.

 

[Amster]

poor Kaine... he wishes her murder plot would have "went through" because Kyron might still be here!

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07...nes-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

Bless his heart...