Is there any possibility of a Plea Deal on the Murder Charges?

[kaRN]

In an Alford Plea, the criminal defendant does not admit the act, but admits that the prosecution could likely prove the charge. The court will pronounce the defendant guilty. The defendant may plead guilty yet not admit all the facts that comprise the crime. An Alford plea allows defendant to plead guilty even while unable or unwilling to admit guilt. One example is a situation where the defendant has no recollection of the pertinent events due to intoxication or amnesia. A defendant making an Alford plea maintains his innocence of the offense charged. One reason for making such a plea may be to avoid being convicted on a more serious charge.

Thanks! I don't know what kind of financial pressures the SAO is under but I do believe a plea involving an admission of guilt would be required in this case. The family has spent far too much time on national TV criticizing everyone from LE to the prosecutors, TES, the concerned public etc. for the state to ever entertain an Alford plea IMO. I'd even go as far as to say the circus would begin in earnest if she entered such a plea. The spin, the media rounds, the made for TV movies and Cindy on the TLC with her own reality show on coping with injustice or some such propaganda.
I do believe that if KC were to plea to save her life and accept LWOP the SAO would take the offer. I bet the cost of this trial will run into the several millions when you add up the cost to house, investigate, prepare, secure etc and then appeal this case versus just locking the door and turning away. When you're spending public money I don't think holding on for a death sentence can be justified. She gets to die in jail either way I don't think they'd accept something she could be paroled from at least I hope not. Misty C got 50 years for selling RX drugs to a cop. KC surely can't get less for murdering an innocent.
Having said that, I'm not sure KC is smart enough or has good enough representation to know she can't manipulate her way out of this.

 

[Blaise]

I want her to stand up in court and say 'Jesse Grund and Amy H. had absolutely nothing to do with it' and then I want to her Cindy publicly apologize to those 2.

I also want peace in the middle east and chocolate that doesn't go to my hips.

Blaise

 

[chefmom]

I want her to stand up in court and say 'Jesse Grund and Amy H. had absolutely nothing to do with it' and then I want to her Cindy publicly apologize to those 2.

I also want peace in the middle east and chocolate that doesn't go to my hips.

Blaise

Lol!!!! And that is both the traditional meaning (laugh out loud) and the CM meaning (lots of luck)!!! :crazy:

 

[kaRN]

Whenever ICA telling the truth in order to move on comes up I have to chuckle- this is the girl that was still telling her R.N. Mother that she was a virgin when she was almost 7 months pregnant. Now that takes audacity!

Audacity yes, but audacity is a learned behaviour. I imagine it took 19 years of living in a home where no lie was too outrageous to be believed and no action was worthy of correction. KC had been building up to this for a long time IMO.
I blame Cindy on that one. How truly oblivious and self absorbed is she?

 

[Snaz]

Thanks! I don't know what kind of financial pressures the SAO is under but I do believe a plea involving an admission of guilt would be required in this case. The family has spent far too much time on national TV criticizing everyone from LE to the prosecutors, TES, the concerned public etc. for the state to ever entertain an Alford plea IMO. I'd even go as far as to say the circus would begin in earnest if she entered such a plea. The spin, the media rounds, the made for TV movies and Cindy on the TLC with her own reality show on coping with injustice or some such propaganda.
I do believe that if KC were to plea to save her life and accept LWOP the SAO would take the offer. I bet the cost of this trial will run into the several millions when you add up the cost to house, investigate, prepare, secure etc and then appeal this case versus just locking the door and turning away. When you're spending public money I don't think holding on for a death sentence can be justified. She gets to die in jail either way I don't think they'd accept something she could be paroled from at least I hope not. Misty C got 50 years for selling RX drugs to a cop. KC surely can't get less for murdering an innocent.
Having said that, I'm not sure KC is smart enough or has good enough representation to know she can't manipulate her way out of this.

As I understand it, Misty received 25 years and 25 years (two different charges), both to run concurrently not consecutively.

I may be wrong on that however.... but that is how I understood it.

 

[affinity]

Thanks! I don't know what kind of financial pressures the SAO is under but I do believe a plea involving an admission of guilt would be required in this case. The family has spent far too much time on national TV criticizing everyone from LE to the prosecutors, TES, the concerned public etc. for the state to ever entertain an Alford plea IMO. I'd even go as far as to say the circus would begin in earnest if she entered such a plea. The spin, the media rounds, the made for TV movies and Cindy on the TLC with her own reality show on coping with injustice or some such propaganda.
I do believe that if KC were to plea to save her life and accept LWOP the SAO would take the offer. I bet the cost of this trial will run into the several millions when you add up the cost to house, investigate, prepare, secure etc and then appeal this case versus just locking the door and turning away. When you're spending public money I don't think holding on for a death sentence can be justified. She gets to die in jail either way I don't think they'd accept something she could be paroled from at least I hope not. Misty C got 50 years for selling RX drugs to a cop. KC surely can't get less for murdering an innocent.
Having said that, I'm not sure KC is smart enough or has good enough representation to know she can't manipulate her way out of this.

Agreed! JB doesn't really give a fig about his client, he is only there for himself. Oh, he professes to believe in her innocence blah blah but he has nothing to back anything up and the "play-acting" has to have a conclusion! Geraldo said a long time ago that this should never have been a death penalty case. Why did he say that? Because it was JB and his crew who kept upping the ante and THEY forced the SA's hand. Without ever explaining how and why the duct tape got where it was...and professing all the innocence, SA had to take a stand. NOW I can see the defense backpedaling and saying, we think it would be better for our careers to agreeing that she is defenseless and we want out. It will be up to SA how to play that! You are right, SA will likely not "give" her an inch..UNLESS she stands in open court and tells us and everyone what happened. The taxpayers will require it!

 

[LolaMoon08]

Thanks! I don't know what kind of financial pressures the SAO is under but I do believe a plea involving an admission of guilt would be required in this case. The family has spent far too much time on national TV criticizing everyone from LE to the prosecutors, TES, the concerned public etc. for the state to ever entertain an Alford plea IMO. I'd even go as far as to say the circus would begin in earnest if she entered such a plea. The spin, the media rounds, the made for TV movies and Cindy on the TLC with her own reality show on coping with injustice or some such propaganda.
I do believe that if KC were to plea to save her life and accept LWOP the SAO would take the offer. I bet the cost of this trial will run into the several millions when you add up the cost to house, investigate, prepare, secure etc and then appeal this case versus just locking the door and turning away. When you're spending public money I don't think holding on for a death sentence can be justified. She gets to die in jail either way I don't think they'd accept something she could be paroled from at least I hope not. Misty C got 50 years for selling RX drugs to a cop. KC surely can't get less for murdering an innocent.
Having said that, I'm not sure KC is smart enough or has good enough representation to know she can't manipulate her way out of this.

Casey has had nothing but wonderful representation (other than JB) for someone who has ZERO money. She had, at one point, nationally respected lawyers sitting next to her in the courtroom. Andrea Lyon and Linda Kenney Baden are both well respected women in the legal world. Dorothy Sims and Ann Finnell both are well respected among their peers. And although I believe that CM has taken a hit to his reputation for his antics in this case, it doesn't take away the fact that he was a well respected attorney coming into this case. Casey has had a lot more than a lot of accused murderers have.

We don't know if LKB or AL tried to get Casey to take a plea. I think their reasons for leaving this case had very little to do with money, but more to do with the client and them not being able to defend her. I think it also had to do with JB. JB was not going to allow these women to take over his case... he would deal with Casey... they just needed to deal with all the real legal work while he went on National television talking about his "dream team."

JB's and Casey's ego combined is what created the illusion that Casey must go to trial to tell the world her side of the story... that everyone would understand once everything was said and done. JB and Casey were talking about going to trial way before Casey was even indicted. They made up their minds very early on that this would go to trial. I believe that some of the other attorneys tried to talk some sense into JB and Casey... they would have none of it! A trial is THEIR time.

I think now that we are so close to trial, JB regrets taking this as far as he has taken it. I think he knows that his girl is going to be found guilty. I think he is absolutely terrified about it. He knows what Casey is capable of. He knows that once Casey is sentenced to LWOP or DEATH, that Casey is going to make his life a living -fire-filled-place-below. Cindy and George are going to make his life a living -fire-filled-place-below. If Casey can falsely accuse her own father and brother of sexual abuse/incest... what can she accuse him of? More than that, Casey knows a lot about what JB has done behind closed doors. Exactly how far did JB go to cover up for his clients crime? DC says that JB told him not to call LE if he found the body. If that isn't bad enough, Casey knows everything he did for her. JB will not be a lawyer after this case, imo. He may even be on trial himself, for something Casey accuses him of... whether it is true or not.

MOO

 

[beach]

As I understand it, Misty received 25 years and 25 years (two different charges), both to run concurrently not consecutively.

I may be wrong on that however.... but that is how I understood it.

Wanting to confirm so this doesn't steer OT -

You are correct, Snaz. Both of Misty's sentences are to run concurrently.

 

[Snaz]

Agreed! JB doesn't really give a fig about his client, he is only there for himself. Oh, he professes to believe in her innocence blah blah but he has nothing to back anything up and the "play-acting" has to have a conclusion! Geraldo said a long time ago that this should never have been a death penalty case. Why did he say that? Because it was JB and his crew who kept upping the ante and THEY forced the SA's hand. Without ever explaining how and why the duct tape got where it was...and professing all the innocence, SA had to take a stand. NOW I can see the defense backpedaling and saying, we think it would be better for our careers to agreeing that she is defenseless and we want out. It will be up to SA how to play that! You are right, SA will likely not "give" her an inch..UNLESS she stands in open court and tells us and everyone what happened. The taxpayers will require it!

Re: My Bold

I agree, Affinity, but would we be able to believe anything KC might say is the truth about what happened? Because no matter what, I'm having a hard time believing she would REALLY tell the truth, i.e. as in "I was so mad at my mother, I wanted to hurt her in the greatest way possible" and/or "I just had to party and Caylee cramped all my fun." She might try to convince us all it was some kind of an accident and she panicked, hence the duct tape... ykwim?

I just don't think I could or would ever believe anything that came out of KC's mouth.

ETA: With all the time KC has had sitting in jail to come up with what she will think is some semi-plausible explanation for everything that has occurred, it scares me to think of what explanations she might have about what happened.

 

[Gaia713]

IMO, JB isn't going to let her take a plea. I think this could've been over long ago if it weren't for him. Remember that time in the car with LE - when they said they could either go somewhere and she would give them info or she could go to jail? She chose to talk but said she should ask JB first. He, of course, put the nix on that and told LE to just take her to jail. He's not going to let her take a plea. This high profile trial is his time to shine (or so he thinks). This is exactly why the bar investigated him for having a hidden agenda. IMO, he definitely does.

I disagree. If Casey wants a plea deal (which she doesn't) Baez would have no choice but to try to plead her. She will never admit any wrong doing because she doesn't believe she did anything wrong. (Caylee drove her to it in her mind). Taking a plea deal would still be a "win" for Baez so he would want her to. However, I don't see the prosecution going for it will all the evidence they have. True it's circumstantial but it only requires connecting the dots.

 

[Gaia713]

Re: My Bold

I agree, Affinity, but would we be able to believe anything KC might say is the truth about what happened? Because no matter what, I'm having a hard time believing she would REALLY tell the truth, i.e. as in "I was so mad at my mother, I wanted to hurt her in the greatest way possible" and/or "I just had to party and Caylee cramped my all my fun." She might try to convince us all it was some kind of an accident and she panicked, hence the duct tape... ykwim?

I just don't think I could or would ever believe anything that came out of KC's mouth.

It's too late to claim an accident imo. She's going for total not guilty. Otherwise there'd be hints of an accident showing up long before this. It's a little late to claim it was accidental - that would still be admitting guilt to Casey. Where's any evidence that it was an accident?

 

[LolaMoon08]

It's too late to claim an accident imo. She's going for total not guilty. Otherwise there'd be hints of an accident showing up long before this. It's a little late to claim it was accidental - that would still be admitting guilt to Casey. Where's any evidence that it was an accident?

I believe that Casey is also charged with Aggravated Child Abuse (a felony) and even if it were claimed that Caylee's death was an accident, the "accidental" murder of Caylee would have taken place during the commission of a felony (Aggravated Child Abuse)... which would make it a First Degree Murder charge anyways, wouldn't it?

It's like when two people go into rob a store... robber #1 is shot and killed by the store owner... robber #2 is charged with robber #1's murder because the death happened during the commission of a felony (robbery). I am sure that robber #2 never wanted robber #1 to be killed, but because of robber #2's direct involvement with the felony (robbery) that caused the death of robber #1... robber #2 will be charged with the murder.

Caylee's death, even if it were an accident, happened during the commission of a felony. Casey may have never intended for Caylee to die, but it was a direct result of her actions. And just to make it very clear... I do not believe for one moment that Caylee's death was an accident.

I think I have this right, but please correct me if I am wrong!

 

[faefrost]

I believe that Casey is also charged with Aggravated Child Abuse (a felony) and even if it were claimed that Caylee's death was an accident, the "accidental" murder of Caylee would have taken place during the commission of a felony (Aggravated Child Abuse)... which would make it a First Degree Murder charge anyways, wouldn't it?

It's like when two people go into rob a store... robber #1 is shot and killed by the store owner... robber #2 is charged with robber #1's murder because the death happened during the commission of a felony (robbery). I am sure that robber #2 never wanted robber #1 to be killed, but because of robber #2's direct involvement with the felony (robbery) that caused the death of robber #1... robber #2 will be charged with the murder.

Caylee's death, even if it were an accident, happened during the commission of a felony. Casey may have never intended for Caylee to die, but it was a direct result of her actions. And just to make it very clear... I do not believe for one moment that Caylee's death was an accident.

I think I have this right, but please correct me if I am wrong!

I believe the murder charges supersede the aggravated child neglect. They are the same crime just of escalating degrees. So the double jeopardy for murder attached with the initial neglect and abuse charges. As a result she cannot plea down to the neglect charges without the state agreeing to it. She can't plea guilty to a lesser offense in an attempt to lessen her sentence without the SA going along with it. She would still be facing the more serious charges in a trial, and the DP sentencing phase if found guilty.

 

[cyberborg]

Re: My Bold

I agree, Affinity, but would we be able to believe anything KC might say is the truth about what happened? Because no matter what, I'm having a hard time believing she would REALLY tell the truth, i.e. as in "I was so mad at my mother, I wanted to hurt her in the greatest way possible" and/or "I just had to party and Caylee cramped all my fun." She might try to convince us all it was some kind of an accident and she panicked, hence the duct tape... ykwim?

I just don't think I could or would ever believe anything that came out of KC's mouth.

ETA: With all the time KC has had sitting in jail to come up with what she will think is some semi-plausible explanation for everything that has occurred, it scares me to think of what explanations she might have about what happened.

BBM.

I don't think ICA operates that way ... that's what confused LE and made them think she was so cold.

When LE were interviewing ICA her lies were already starting to fall apart based on the preliminary LE investigation. LE pressed her hard on those lies and that they were debunked.

After LE having debunked a lie in coversation ICA would then use the same lie again and again ... she never blinked. When challenged that she was doing nothing to help find Caylee and what she had told them was all lies ... ICA retorted...

"Not all of them."

ICA was not phased at all. Most perps would seek to evolve their story to try to fit to what was left or start to get flustered. ICA remained focused, defiant, cold. She had played this game before with better 'controllers' than LE.

I think that it was CA who was working hard to creatively craft a story, like JBP that could fit the facts ... I don't think ICA cares ... she had moved on.

So I don't think ICA sits in jail thinking of ways to explain her situ and help the Defense ... she leaves that up to her boys. ICA thinks about ICA and continues to live in the world she did at home, same world, different venue.

ICA will stick with her original statements and roll the dice, it is a tried and proven strategy for her. That's the issue with a plea deal, while ICA could take LIFE versus a trial ... I don't see her telling what happened ... either in-camera or on the stand.

Her defiance and control will take the trial and sentence over any plea ... to preserve her notorious cold public image for an eternity "I did not do, I would not do" ... erring to blame someone else, anyone else.

 

[Snaz]

It's too late to claim an accident imo. She's going for total not guilty. Otherwise there'd be hints of an accident showing up long before this. It's a little late to claim it was accidental - that would still be admitting guilt to Casey. Where's any evidence that it was an accident?

I completely agree...... but I put nothing past KC and her attorneys.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I completely agree...... but I put nothing past KC and her attorneys.

Me either. I half expect her to start having 'flashbacks' when it gets close to trial with some fanciful (as in ridiculous) story for JB to provide his "Oh I see,now I understand" moment..:sick:

 

[jon_burrows]

It's too late to claim an accident imo. She's going for total not guilty. Otherwise there'd be hints of an accident showing up long before this. It's a little late to claim it was accidental - that would still be admitting guilt to Casey. Where's any evidence that it was an accident?

...unless an accident is the big aha moment that we'll all understand at trial. JB kept talking about defense strategy and how it had to be a secret until trial. He could technically say Casey is innocent of the charges (1st degree murder) but guilty of an accident.

The other aha moment he was planning could have been the one Casey wrote about to her Cookie (or was it Muffin?). Casey wrote she left Caylee with the the nanny (cough) while she bought new stuff for them so they could move away together, basically keep her day and night while Casey got their stuff together so they could make their get-away. Casey let the cat out of the bag when she wrote about her plan to her new BFF in jail and the BFF didn't flushyroo. Maybe that was supposed to explain away why she wasn't looking for her and continued to party and shop for that month.

I think the scenarios above are totally ridiculous. I don't believe for one second it was an accident and we all know what she bought and it was nothing for Caylee. The defense has nothing, nada, zip. I'm just trying to figure out what JB's big 'aha we'll all understand' moment was supposed to be.

IMO

 

[ynotdivein]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJSelSDYgRg&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJSelSDYgRg&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

TWA, thank you for bringing this back to my attention. I think we all appreciate how revisiting these videos helps cement timelines and support theories not only of what happened, but of where each player's "head" was at the time.

@ about 6:15, LK plays tape of Lee questioning KC in jail. She tells him that there's "nothing that should probably be said here" (i.e., on tape), and later Lee says "And so just remember that when you talk with those guys (investigators), I know you're going to have your prep with Jose... but just remember, truth don't hurt." This indicates pretty clearly that Lee at least believes that whatever KC is 'prepping' with Jose does not necessarily include the truth.

And then at about 6:30, LK asks JB, "Jose do you believe this child is alive?"

JB: Yes I do. I really do. And I think, if we concentrate on looking for her, that's exactly what we're gonna do, we're gonna find her. And I've said a million times, my case looks a whole lot better if we find Caylee."

(Above italicized by me.) Well... not so much, Jose. Not so much.

 

[debbie0604]

I dont think Casey Anthony will ever plea or admit what she did. I say this because I believe she is a text book narcisistic sociopath. History shows these types rarely confess if the system gives them the slightest hope of beating the charges. moo

I totally agree with you! :rocker:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It's too late to claim an accident imo. She's going for total not guilty. Otherwise there'd be hints of an accident showing up long before this. It's a little late to claim it was accidental - that would still be admitting guilt to Casey. Where's any evidence that it was an accident?

Can you believe they didn't go down this route though? I mean my god wouldn't it have been her best shot to say 'Yes, there was an accident, I put the duct tape on her face to stop the purging as she started to decompose and over her eyes so I didn't have to look at her anymore. She got into the pool. I panicked put her in the car and dumped her 2 days later. I didn't want to admit the truth to anyone because my Mom would have been proven right once and for all, but that is what happened.' Even if she wasn't believed by the state and the charge was still Murder for trial at least it would give her some plausible defense to go into it with, as opposed to whatever they have, that some random SODDI put Caylee's body on Suburban which will never work.

Just sayin' but Baez' inexperience is showing in more ways than one.

The other alternative would have been an early plea, but that didn't happen either, now she is on a one way trip to the maximum penalty because of the way this thing has been handled by herself, her attorney and her so called 'supporters' it's been an unmitigated disaster for them.

Not that I am complaining, but it is so nuts.