Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #8

Status
Not open for further replies.
There can never be peace when one side vows to lather, rinse and repeat until the other side ceases to exist.

Unfortunately, if we want to avoid civilian casualties in the future? Get rid of Hamas now and forever. This blood is on their hands, not Israel's. Israel also struggles with the fact that innocents are being lost in this matter (due to Hamas' war crimes of 'placement'), and they are spilling their own blood as well to ensure that Hamas is erradicated as it must be once and for all.

Hamas official Ghazi Hamad:“We must teach israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again”.
 
I am deeply bothered by Hamas attack on Israel. I am also bothered by Israel's repeated attacks resulting in high numbers of civilian injuries and deaths.
To some extent, I understand the need to "destroy the terrorist group", but struggle with the fact that so many innocents are lost to the number of Hamas leaders killed.
I do believe destroying their operational lifelines will give Israel an advantage in eradicating them or vastly reducing their ability to orchestrate harm.
I worry if the violence, destruction and death- particularly the deaths of parents and other family members, experienced by young people on both sides, leads to a new generation of extremists- Jews hating Palestinians and Palestinians hating Jews.
#letsstandwithLOVE&PEACE.
Exactly. I have been reading numerous MSM Columnists. The NYT's Thomas Friedman even called for a ceasefire! I was shocked! Thomas Friedman has lots of experience in the Middle East. He was there during the PLO and Beirut Civil War.

He cited the Mumbai bombings in 2008 and how PM Singh did just that. He feels that by inflicting so much causalities on Gaza, the narrative has changed to Gaza and the events of Oct 7th have taken a backseat and now people are
supporting Gaza.


Opinion | The Israeli Officials I Speak With Tell Me They Know Two Things for Sure

After the initial horror at the sheer barbarism of the Hamas onslaught on Israeli children, older adults and a dance party, what happened? The narrative quickly shifted to the brutality of the Israeli counterattack on Gazan civilians, among whom Hamas has embedded itself. The massive Israeli counterstrike overshadowed Hamas’s terrorism and instead made the organization a hero to some. It has also forced Israel’s new Arab allies in the Abraham Accords to distance themselves from the Jewish state.

Robert Pape wote a column for CNN. He cites previous attempts to control terrorism by Israel and the US



1.)
Israel invades Southern Lebanon with in June 1982.
Goal smash PLO terrorists. This caused the creation of Hezbollah in July 1982, led to vast local support for Hezbollah
2.) Israel maintained a heavy military occupation of Gaza and the West Bank from the early 1990s to 2005.
These operations succeeded in killing many terrorists from Hamas and other Palestinian groups, but also triggered vast local support for the terrorist groups
3.) Israel launched a ground offensive into Lebanon in July-August 2006.
Although the goal was to completely destroy Hezbollah. Hezbollah is vastly stronger today as a result.
4.) The United States invaded and occupied Iraq in 2003
American forces completely defeated Saddam Hussein’s army, However, these heavy military operations led to the largest suicide terrorist campaign in modern times, a major civil war in Iraq and ultimately, the rise of ISIS.

The effort to finish off the terrorists in just a month or two militarily with little idea of the political outcome — as — is what ends up producing more terrorists than it kills.


What Works

To defeat terrorist groups, it is crucial to engage in long campaigns of selective pressure, over years, not simply a month (or two, or three) of heavy ground operations, and to combine military operations with political solutions from early on.

The only way to create lasting damage to terrorists is to combine, typically in a long campaign of years, sustained selective attacks against identified terrorists with political operations that drive wedges between the terrorists and the local populations from which they come. (MOO This should have been started years ago!!!) Know your enemy. Don't wall them off and forget about then. Be pro-active! Oct 7th, never should have happened. MOO

The campaign that defeated ISIS joined military and political operations together practically from the beginning.

Rant over. I'm really scared. I'm scared of the standing of our nation, the USA in the ME. I'm scared that we may loose allies. I don't know what will happen to Israel.

You can't force your will on people. It will backfire! (MOO)
 
Last edited:
I wonder why Israel just doesn't stop it already. I actually wonder why the world is not holding Hamas to account: there's nothing like putting refugees at risk. I really wonder why Hamas' actions are 'always Israel's fault'. Sigh.

You can prevent a terrorist organization whose ideology states they won't rest until you cease to exist on the earth from exerting "their will" upon your nation --- you fight them until they are gone. Stop fighting and you die. Keep fighting and 'some' of you die saving the rest. There is no other choice for Israel.


A combined attack intended to leave the Shoafat refugee camp in northern Jerusalem was foiled - an explosives laboratory was found.


This is why:

Hamas leader Khaled Mashal: "October 7 paved the highway towards the removal of Israel.Russia and China can do more to help us, this is their opportunity to abolish American monopoly."


Note: Whenever Israel has been "pre-active" against Hamas, they have paid dearly for it from the very same players who now fault them for being reactive. #StayStrongIsrael because as I said back on 7 October, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't --- as always and it'll stay that way as long as everyone else stays tucked in their own beds with their own nice neighbours rather than the terrorists you've got to deal with in order to live and to survive. You have that right.
 
Last edited:
The headline at the bottom of the screen states "Al Quds Hospital". Indonesian Hospital is the one where last night, Hamas took the last remaining 600litres of fuel from the resevoir - apparently it is now inoperational.
Correspondent was referencing Indonesia Hospital. Often chyrons doesn't match what is being spoken. But who knows. Either way. I've never seen CPR performed this way.


Screenshot Capture - 2023-11-02 - 02-27-05.png
 
I wonder why Israel just doesn't stop it already. I actually wonder why the world is not holding Hamas to account: there's nothing like putting refugees at risk. I really wonder why Hamas' actions are 'always Israel's fault'. Sigh.

You can prevent a terrorist organization whose ideology states they won't rest until you cease to exist on the earth from exerting "their will" upon your nation --- you fight them until they are gone. Stop fighting and you die. Keep fighting and 'some' of you die saving the rest. There is no other choice for Israel.


A combined attack intended to leave the Shoafat refugee camp in northern Jerusalem was foiled - an explosives laboratory was found.


This is why:

Hamas leader Khaled Mashal: "October 7 paved the highway towards the removal of Israel.Russia and China can do more to help us, this is their opportunity to abolish American monopoly."


Note: Whenever Israel has been "pre-active" against Hamas, they have paid dearly for it from the very same players who now fault them for being reactive. #StayStrongIsrael because as I said back on 7 October, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't --- as always and it'll stay that way as long as everyone else stays tucked in their own beds with their own nice neighbours rather than the terrorists you've got to deal with in order to live and to survive. You have that right.
But that requires killing every single one of them. After you do that? They regroup. You need a long term solution or there will be nothing but killing forever. And how to do you kill all of them? Many aren't in Gaza. You need to take out their leadership. You need to take out Iran. Does Israel plan to take on Iran? Does the US? This is the only way it will stop.
 
Next stage of Gaza war: Israeli forces moving into center of Hamas operations in Gaza City to destroy weapons depots & key command centers; fighting expected to intensify in coming days.
@MaarivOnline
War update:IDF infantry & armored forces kill dozens of terrorists in Gaza battles overnight; Israeli death toll in fighting rises to 17; army bombs Hezbollah targets in Lebanon after launches into Israel. Below is IDF video of forces in Gaza.
@ynetalerts & @kann_news
 
I wonder why Israel just doesn't stop it already. I actually wonder why the world is not holding Hamas to account: there's nothing like putting refugees at risk. I really wonder why Hamas' actions are 'always Israel's fault'. Sigh.

You can prevent a terrorist organization whose ideology states they won't rest until you cease to exist on the earth from exerting "their will" upon your nation --- you fight them until they are gone. Stop fighting and you die. Keep fighting and 'some' of you die saving the rest. There is no other choice for Israel.


A combined attack intended to leave the Shoafat refugee camp in northern Jerusalem was foiled - an explosives laboratory was found.


This is why:

Hamas leader Khaled Mashal: "October 7 paved the highway towards the removal of Israel.Russia and China can do more to help us, this is their opportunity to abolish American monopoly."


Note: Whenever Israel has been "pre-active" against Hamas, they have paid dearly for it from the very same players who now fault them for being reactive. #StayStrongIsrael because as I said back on 7 October, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't --- as always and it'll stay that way as long as everyone else stays tucked in their own beds with their own nice neighbours rather than the terrorists you've got to deal with in order to live and to survive. You have that right.
About tunnel warfare:

The US fought a tunnel warfare. We lost! Vietnam. We tried traditional warfare and we lost. They had the tunnels.
We're supposedly the most powerful nation in the world. North Vietnam was guerrilla warfare. Of course, we thought we were gonna win. They were up against Goliath...But they won.... It was tunnels and guerrilla warfare...
 
But that requires killing every single one of them. After you do that? They regroup. You need a long term solution or there will be nothing but killing forever. And how to do you kill all of them? Many aren't in Gaza. You need to take out their leadership. You need to take out Iran. Does Israel plan to take on Iran? Does the US? This is the only way it will stop.
Israel is dealing with the immediate threat to it's existence right now ... in Gaza. Israel is not going to allow Hamas to re-group in Gaza. The countries harbouring Hamas leadership in their nations can either do something about it or keep them for themselves. But thier ROLE in the Gaza and it's leadership needs to be ended. Palestinians who want peace will also have to step up, speak out and banish Hamas from their turf. I know, I know, but they are unarmed civilians ... so the IDF is going to do it instead.

The Arab nations are going to have to stand up and take a role in this in the long-term. THEY don't want Hamas either (or Palestinians for that matter) and most of them do not support the extremeist and Iranian ideology. All those Arab nations who've made peace with Israel and have shown cpable of co-existing peacefully need to start putting their money where their mouths are. This needs to be an ME soloution.

How the Palestinians are governed is a long way off, but those Arab nations need to play a role. The war in the Gaza won't be over next week or next month.
 
About tunnel warfare:

The US fought a tunnel warfare. We lost! Vietnam. We tried traditional warfare and we lost. They had the tunnels.
We're supposedly the most powerful nation in the world. North Vietnam was guerrilla warfare. Of course, we thought we were gonna win. They were up against Goliath...But they won.... It was tunnels and guerrilla warfare...
Imagine the impetus you'd have for victory were your very lives and future existence to depend upon the outcome.

Wars and their outcome are often about "why you're in them in the first place". I still can't answer that question about Vietnam. I can answer that question about this one ... and WW2 etc.
 

Israeli forces say 'dozens' of Hamas fighters killed in overnight operations​

Israel’s air force has released a statement saying IDF fighters and armored forces were fired on with anti-tank weapons and grenades in overnight operations.

"The forces engaged in prolonged battles with the terrorists, assisted by brigade fire from artillery and tanks, while directing an aircraft to attack from the air and directing a missile ship to attack from the sea. At the end of the fighting, dozens of terrorists were killed.”

 
Germany has said it will ban activities linked to Hamas, already a designated terrorist organisation in the country, as well as those of the pro-Palestinian group Samidoun, Reuters reports.

“With Hamas, I have today completely banned the activities of a terrorist organisation whose aim is to destroy the state of Israel,” the interior minister, Nancy Faeser, said in a statement.

Samidoun’s German wing will also be disbanded, it added. In the hours following the Hamas attacks on 7 October, the group in Berlin was linked to what police described as “people celebrating the attacks on Israel by handing out baked goods” along a main avenue.

The bans come as officials across Europe are scrambling to curtail any spillover of tensions from the conflict.

In Germany, where the chancellor, Olaf Scholz, has vowed to take a “zero tolerance” approach to antisemitism, assailants hurled two molotov cocktails at a synagogue in central Berlin and the Star of David was found daubed on the facades of several buildings where Jews live in Berlin.

 

400 with foreign passports expected to cross border at Rafah today - Egyptian official​

An Egyptian official at the crossing has said that while hundreds were expected to cross Thursday, the numbers could fluctuate during the day.

“Four hundred people holding foreign passports are expected to cross today in addition to 60 wounded,” the official told AFP.

On the Palestinian side, Hisham Adwan, the Rafah crossing’s Gaza director, said about 100 wounded people and 400 foreigners and dual nationals, including US citizens, were expected to cross during the day

The Egyptian official said a total of 361 foreigners and dual nationals had entered Egypt on Wednesday, a slight rise over the figure of 335 given a day earlier.

Those being allowed to leave represent a tiny fraction of the 2.4 million people in the Gaza Strip.

 
Unicef has described the “scenes of carnage” following two rounds of Israeli airstrikes on Gaza’s Jabalia refugee camp as “horrific and appalling,” in a statement that reiterated the agency’s call for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.

The two airstrikes come after weeks of ongoing bombardment that have reportedly killed more than 3,500 children, it said on Wednesday.

This would be over 400 children killed or injured per day, for 25 straight days. This cannot become the new normal … Children have endured too much already. The killing and captivity of children must stop. Children are not a target.”


 

Australian FM says Israel must heed calls for 'restraint'​


A few hours ago, we heard from Australia's foreign minister who confirmed that some of the country's citizens were among those who yesterday managed to leave Gaza via the Rafah crossing.

Speaking at a news conference in Adelaide, Penny Wong said 20 Australians, plus two family members and a permanent resident were met in Egypt yesterday. "I'm so relieved and grateful this first cohort was able to cross," she said.

She also issued a message to Israel: "The international community will not accept ongoing civilian deaths, so when Israel's friends urge Israel to exercise restraint, when Israel's friends urge Israel to protect civilian lives, it is critical that Israel listens."

She continued: "It matters for Israel's own security which faces grave risks of the conflict spreads."

 

More than 20,000 wounded trapped in Gaza - Doctors Without Borders​


More than 20,000 wounded people are still trapped in the Gaza Strip, according to Doctors Without Borders (MSF).

Egyptian officials said 335 foreigners or dual-nationals, plus 76 seriously wounded and sick people, were brought across the Rafah crossing for medical treatment on Wednesday. AFP reported that ambulances were seen taking wounded evacuees to Egyptian field hospitals.

But MSF has called for a greater number of people to be evacuated - and for a ceasefire and more critical aid to to be delivered to Gaza, where there are concerns a humanitarian crisis is unfolding.

"I was shocked by the fact that everyone there was asking for food, was asking for water," Philippe Lazzarini, the most senior UN official allowed into Gaza since the war began, said.

 

Hamas lines in northern Gaza continue to "collapse," says IDF​


Hamas defensive lines in northern Gaza continue to “collapse” as they retreat southwards to the center of the enclave, according to a spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

“The IDF continues to advance in the Gaza City area, conducting face-to-face battles with Hamas terrorists and deepening the fighting,” Daniel Hagari said in a press statement Thursday.

“Our fighters continue to collapse the defensive lines of Hamas in the north of the Gaza Strip and take control of central areas," he added.

Hagari claimed Israeli forces had “the upper hand” in every confrontation.

“We continue to intensify the activity and move forward according to the plan and the goals we have set for ourselves. The battle is progressing as we planned," Hagari said.

The IDF announced it was "expanding ground operations" in Gaza on Friday. Drawing on videos and photos from open and official sources, as well as reporting from CNN teams on the ground, CNN has been able to map what we know about Israel's ground offensive so far.

Read the full story here:
 

Hospitals struggling under "avalanche of human suffering" in Gaza, doctor says​

Doctors are struggling to treat patients with severe injuries under dire conditions in Gaza as Israel maintains its bombardment of the enclave, a medic with aid group Doctors Without Borders said.

Speaking from Amman, Jordan, Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan said the lack of medical supplies in Gaza meant doctors have been "completely stripped of all the tools of modern medicine" to treat patients — mostly women and children — with severe injuries and burns.

"Our hearts are burning. This is an avalanche of human suffering. And it’s 100% man-made," Haj-Hassan told CNN's Paula Newton.

Doctors at the strip's largest Al Shifa Hospital are seeing children with the majority of their body and faces burned, missing limbs and other "catastrophic injuries," said Haj-Hassan, a pediatric intensive care and humanitarian doctor with the aid group, which is also known as Médecins Sans Frontières.

"And the doctors are left to treat them with limited pain control, running out of anesthetic drugs." she said. "We do not have enough antibiotics to treat wound infections, we don't have enough dressings."

Ceasefire call: Haj-Hassan called for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war, saying "a stop rather than a pause" is needed in what she described as the "indiscriminate bombardment and massacre."

"We have lost over 130 health care providers, many of whom I have known personally. They have lost their families," she said.

Medical workers in Gaza are working around the clock while they and their families also fear being bombarded, she said. But "they have refused to leave, because they have decided to stay with their patients," she said.

Israeli airstrikes hit near Al Quds hospital in Gaza City, director says​


Israeli airstrikes struck near the Al Quds hospital in Gaza City, where doctors say thousands of displaced people are sheltering, the key medical facility's director told CNN Thursday.

The strikes that began Wednesday evening continued into Thursday morning and were “getting closer to the hospital,” Dr. Bashar Mourad said in a phone call.

“Very heavy airstrikes in the vicinity of the hospital since last night, intensified this morning and getting closer to the hospital where 14,000 displaced people are,” he said.

The Palestinian Red Crescent said in a statement around 10 p.m. local time Wednesday that heavy airstrikes were targeting near the hospital “for two hours”.

The hospital, the second-largest in the main urban center of Gaza City in the northern part of the enclave, has previously been targeted in Israeli airstrikes.

In a statement to CNN, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said due to “intensifying hostilities” against Hamas in Gaza City and northern Gaza, the IDF continues to urge civilians to evacuate south.

Evacuation zones and warning alerts from the Israeli military have not guaranteed safety for civilians in densely populated Gaza, where Palestinians have no safe place to escape Israeli bombs.

 

Israeli army at 'gates of Gaza City' as fighting intensifies​


Israeli tanks and troops pressed towards Gaza City this morning but met fierce resistance from Hamas militants using mortars and hit-and-run attacks from tunnels as the Palestinian death toll mounted and foreign passport-holders were being allowed out.

The four-week war is closing in on Gaza's main population centre in the north, where the Islamist group is based and where Israel has been telling people to leave as it vows to annihilate Hamas once and for all.

"We are at the gates of Gaza City," Israeli military commander Brigadier General Itzik Cohen said.

Fighters of Hamas and its ally Islamic Jihad were emerging from tunnels to fire at tanks, then disappearing back into the network, residents said and videos from both groups showed, in guerrilla-style operations against a far more powerful army.

"They never stopped bombing Gaza City all night, the house never stopped shaking," said one man living there, asking not to be identified by name.

"But in the morning we discover the Israeli forces are still outside the city, in the outskirts and that means the resistance is heavier than they expected."

(...)

Biden calls for 'pause' to get hostages out

US President Joe Biden has called for a "pause" in the conflict after a heckler pushing for a ceasefire confronted him at a campaign fundraiser.

Mr Biden was speaking to about 200 people when the heckler shouted: "As a rabbi, I need you to call for a ceasefire right now."

Mr Biden responded: "I think we need a pause. A pause means give time to get the prisoners out."

The White House later clarified that Mr Biden was referring to the hostages, not prisoners, held by Hamas.

(...)

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
197
Guests online
1,781
Total visitors
1,978

Forum statistics

Threads
598,103
Messages
18,075,561
Members
230,527
Latest member
Natasja
Back
Top