Jahi’s family wants her declared 'alive again’

[MyBelle]

What does that have to do with being qualified to diagnose brain death via EEG?

Besides the fact, a flat EEG is not even a criteria for brain death diagnosis anyway.

It has nothing to do with being qualified to diagnose brain death, it has to do with diagnosing brain FUNCTION.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I didn't say her uterine LINING; I said the uterus.

and without a link, I will continue to believe that is a medical impossibility. I'm pretty sure the uterus is an organ that does not slide out of the body on a monthly basis.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

She is doing research in psychology though, not psychiatry, so she is not qualified to comment on what is essentially a question that should be answered by a psychiatrist.

I think part of the confusion people have is that many don't understand the difference between a psychologist (who studies human behavior) and a psychiatrist (who studies organic brain function). Since this case involves the state of the brain tissue of this patient, the question is definitely in the realm of psychiatrists and not psychologists.

I think the professional conferences where Dr. Labkovsky presented were knowledgeable about the difference between a psychologist and psychiatrist and also fully aware of her qualifications to administer and interpret an EEG, which was her role in this case.

Labkovsky, E. (2013). Professional Training in EEG Brain Diagnostics. Brain Mind & Memory Institute. 14-17 March 2013, Outrigger Twin Towns Resort, Gold Coast, Australia

 

[Leilei]

and without a link, I will continue to believe that is a medical impossibility. I'm pretty sure the uterus is an organ that does not slide out of the body on a monthly basis.

JMO

Respectfully, the WS member did not state that this was what is happening. It was posed as a question, and does not require a link.

Why all of the nitpicking? Different opinions and valid questions are a huge part of why this site is enjoyable.

 

[nrdsb4]

It has nothing to do with being qualified to diagnose brain death, it has to do with diagnosing brain FUNCTION.

JMO

NONSENSE. Dolan et al is trying to have her "brain death" diagnosis refuted so that she can be declared "alive". Showing an EEG with electrical activity does not accomplish this, and refuting brain death diagnoses has never been this psychologist's area of expertise. Dr. Fisher addressed this pretty well, but apparently you know better than a Stanford professor who was actually vetted as an expert.

 

[I Object!]

Did you read those articles listed? They seem to discuss using EEG as a biofeedback mechanism to detect deception in subjects.

BBM. Northwestern University must not share your opinion because she seems to be held in high regard as a researcher. Her CV certainly reflects numerous global presentations to other brain research professionals.

Labkovsky, E. (2013). Professional Training in EEG Brain Diagnostics. Event-Related Potentials as Biomarkers in the clinical Assessment of Brain and Mind Health. Workshop. Brain Mind & Memory Institute. 14-17 March 2013, Outrigger Twin Towns Resort, Gold Coast, Australia


http://www.brainbehavioroptimization.com/index.php?rmm=Resources

 

[I Object!]

Interesting. In the latest abstract of the matter it appears Dolan's new writ has declarations in support by only Machado and Defino. Both Prestigiacomo and Labkovsky are out. Be interesting to see what was dropped for lack of medical support.

 

[MyBelle]

Interesting. In the latest abstract of the matter it appears Dolan's new writ has declarations in support by only Machado and Defino. Both Prestigiacomo and Labkovsky are out. Be interesting to see what was dropped for lack of medical support.

A link would be helpful.

FYI: the Court hearing was POSTPONED.

Other tests performed by various physicians had not been conducted, which is needed for the court to consider.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/j...dead-despite-her-breathing-and-eating-127813/

 

[Tricia]

Please remember Websleuths does not allow name calling or any type of disrespectful posts.

You can get your point across without using derogatory names or descriptions.

Thank you

 

[MyBelle]

Did you read those articles listed? They seem to discuss using EEG as a biofeedback mechanism to detect deception in subjects.

The reference I linked was to a presentation she made at a professional conference re: EEG diagnostics.

Labkovsky, E. (2013). Professional Training in EEG Brain Diagnostics.... Outrigger Twin Towns Resort, Gold Coast, Australia

 

[joypath]

A link would be helpful.

FYI: the Court hearing was POSTPONED.

Other tests performed by various physicians had not been conducted, which is needed for the court to consider.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/j...dead-despite-her-breathing-and-eating-127813/

That article/link, reposted here so there is absolutely NO confusion regarding my assessment, (http://www.christianpost.com/news/j...dead-despite-her-breathing-and-eating-127813/), is loaded with errors!
1. "Despite Her Breathing and Eating Through Tubes" : nope, the essence, "she" is NOT performing those life-sustaining functions, external support mechanisms are keeping celluar mitochondrial function.
2."Jahi McMath, 13, was declared dead earlier this year ": nope, unless 2013 is really 2014 in the author's sphere of reality! PS: just a paragraph later the author states "Dr. Paul Fisher, head of Stanford Hospital's division of child neurology was the one to declare her brain-dead last year".
3. "McMath suffered complications after a routine tonsillectomy": um, NOT "routine" and the surgery was a bit more extensive!
4. "then had her transferred to a facility in New Jersey where she is kept on breathing and feeding tubes and given 24-hour care.": not so much, as the article was presented as 10/9/2014 and no longer applicable to the present tense verbiage!
5."Her parents posted video of Jahi moving her feet and hands on command": nit-picking here but it was NOT her biological father who posted NOR were all extremities moving (yea, I mean BOTH feet & BOTH hands!)
6." Other tests performed ...... which is needed": Sami K. needs remedial grammar, plural nouns should have plural verbs.

Okay, I will acknowledge that the article was written for a very specific audience & to evoke a non-scientific response but it does keep the story/case in the media!


On an other note, death certificates CAN BE modified when new information is presented to the Office of the Medical Examiner, often a habitat of MDs!

 

[TJL]

Something I found today because I was looking for any publication or document where Machado describes what he believes to be true brain death.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...PMhmxwFc6uCGmROwYVARwceuc#v=onepage&q&f=false

Brain Death, Updating a Valid Concept for 2004 (Calixto Machado and Julius Korein)
Page 4, last paragraph:

This critical system of the brain (CSB) is the minimal irreplaceable anatomical substrate of those functions (such as the multiple aspects of consciousness) that are utilized by the organism as a whole towards behavior that will result in decreased entropy production. Thus onset of its development and function signify the onset of the life of the organism during the stage of its earliest appearance.

Basically, he's establishing what he believes to be the indicators of life in an organism. I'm quoting it because it's important to note for future.

Irreversible cessation of intrinsic CSB function indicates the death of the organism in the stage during which the CSB exists.

And again on page 9:

Consciousness and its components must be evaluated as prime indicators of brain function, specifically of the CSB.

Just saying "consciousness" - or what makes a person a person - is something that makes up part of the CSB.

The concept of death of a human being is irreversible cessation of function of the CSB.

Reiterating to his readers so as to imply that someone cannot be dead if they have consciousness. (makes sense, logically.)

It should be made clear that somatic [of the body, cells, etc. bm] or systemic disintegration of the body does not necessarily immediately follow irreversible cessation of brain function! Many aspects of somatic integration are either independent of brain function or may be prolonged by appropriate replacement (i.e. hormonal) therapy. This finding does not invalidate the concept of brain death.

Okay, so he's basically saying here that a body, or parts of a body, do not necessarily begin to break down or decompose after brain death. And, that natural process of decomposition can be delayed/prolonged/held off by injecting the body with artificial hormones/chemicals that are normally supplied and/or regulated by the brain. And finally, he's saying that just because a body can continue to thrive after brain death - either due to artificial means of prolongation, or some other unexplained reason, this does NOT mean the diagnosis of brain death is invalid. (Makes sense, logically.)

7. Conclusion. In conclusion one can cut through the confusion and prior lack of knowledge by utilizing the biological neurocentric concept of brain death (irreversible intrinsic cessation of function of the CSB) as the necessary and sufficient condition for death of the human being phase of the human organism.

Read the entire document for an explanation of what he means by "human being phase". He talks about a "person" phase, and a "human being" phase. But anyways, he's concluding that brain death occurs upon the complete, total, and irreversible cessation of function of all parts of the critical systems of the brain.

...which I find incredibly interesting, because he states earlier in his paper (page 5):

We must simultaneously be aware that because of the virtual and practical impossibility of testing for the CSB itself we may use the entire brain including the brain stem as a first approximation of the CSB.

In other words, he concludes that brain death is the cessation of the entire CSB, but oh by the way, its impossible to test for the CSB, so we'll just assume that every aspect of "brain life" exists in every neuron of "the brain" until the impossible day comes where we can prove that wrong. And let's not forget that we can trick the body into believing the brain is still alive by injecting it with artificial brain hormones.

 

[TJL]

A link would be helpful.

FYI: the Court hearing was POSTPONED.

Other tests performed by various physicians had not been conducted, which is needed for the court to consider.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/j...dead-despite-her-breathing-and-eating-127813/

No, it wasn't postponed. Dolan issued a press release saying it was postponed, because he knew the layman would not either bother with fact-checking his statement, or understand the legal definition of a postponement.

Dolan withdrew his petition to have the case be heard before the court. Yes, that's technically "postponing" the issue, so he's not necessarily lying in his press release. But there's a difference between postponement by request for postponement (which is typically a finite amount of time with an actually future date scheduled), and an indefinite postponement by withdrawing your petition to the court. Dolan did the latter, not the former.

So, while he did technically get the case postponed, he completely withdrew his request for the case to be heard at all, which is the typical stance taken when you know you don't have a case really at all and it saves the embarrassment of admitting to being wrong.

 

[MyBelle]

Jahi McMath Hearing Postponed, Prayer Vigil Scheduled for Tonight

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...er-Vigil-Scheduled-for-Tonight-278604141.html

 

[MyBelle]

San Jose Mom with Brain-Injured Daughter Befriends Jahi McMath's Family


In the struggle to keep Jahi McMath on life support – and even possibly reverse her brain-death ruling – two mothers became friends....

......Doctors told Huse her daughter wouldn’t survive. Huse didn’t listen. And she held fundraisers to pay the initial $100,000 to Philip Defina, CEO of the International Brain Research Foundation in Flanders, NJ.....

........Defina has come under fire for promising false hopes and charging a lot of money for his unconventional approaches. But his foundation did just secure a $6 million contract from the Department of Defense to help soldiers who suffered traumatic brain injury. He also accepts criticism that he is not a medical doctor - he is proud of his PhD in clinical psychology, and stresses he facilitates the work of experts in brain injuries and research.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...-Lisa-Huse-Friends-Brain-Death-278545241.html

 

[TJL]

Evidence that Machado is a member of the ForcedExit train that brain death diagnosis is a scam perpetuated by the process of organ donation.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/978-0-306-48526-8_11/lookinside/000.png

During the last several decades physicians and the community have needed urgent changes in the legal codes for accepting brain death (BD) as death, to obtain organs from heart-beating donors. The "dead donor rule" requires that donors must be first declared dead(1). For this reason, most codes legalizing BD are usually sections of transplant laws(2). Thus, a conceptual and practical controversy emerged: if brain-dead cases were not useful as organ donors, they were usually kept on life support until cardiac arrest occurred.(2,4)

I'm not going to type the whole thing out as one can click the link and see him reiterating his stated purpose and position: people are only declared brain dead so someone else can profit from organ donation. I was a little amused that the citations he quoted were his own journalistic writings and findings. This is an academic and professional no no. You don't quote yourself or your own writings as supporting evidence for other statements. But I'll humor him for a moment.

He suggested that anyone who is NOT deemed viable for organ donation and is brain dead, is always allowed to remain on "life support" until cardiac arrest (body-death) occurs. Well you don't say, Machado? You mean the machines are kept on until the heart stops? Wouldn't it be impossible for the opposite to occur: the machines are turned off when the heart STARTS?

Secondly, organs are not viable for transplantation "indefinitely". The more time that goes by after brain death, the less likely any sustained organs remain viable for transplantation.

And finally, of course the standards for brain death are also written into the standards for transplantation. Would you rather there be no standards written in there at all? Or even, would you rather the standards for determining coma be written into the standards deeming someone viable for transplantation? Imagine the uproar THAT would cause. There has to be something there that is globally accepted both legally and medically, else it would be a free for all. "I'm sorry! You can't afford to pay for your child's emergency room visit? Well, we'll just have to take one of his kidneys to cover the cost."

It's not a free for all because globally accepted standards and practices of medicine, morality, and philosophy all weighed in on this issue and came up with something that is, although less than perfect, is the best there is.

I love how Dolan touts Machado as a Dr who truly believes in the concept of brain death, but Machado's own writings expose him as someone who believes its a scam to sell organs.

 

[MyBelle]

One really is more than a tad confused to hold a belief it is just a scam to sell organs. Selling human organs is ILLEGAL and it also has nothing to do with Jahi's case. Nobody has suggested Jahi's organs would be sold.

I'm truly baffled at the constant posting opinion as fact that this board-certified physician is some kind of quack with an agenda.
JMO

Machado, a very credentialed neurologist, medical professor, and recipient of the American Academy of Neurology Lawrence McHenry Award in 2005 because of his research in the field. In short, he is a very respected expert in the field of brain death.

He also believes that brain death is a real phenomenon. From his declaration under penalty of perjury:

I must affirm that I am a defender that brain death means death of the human being, and it is a state with no hope of recovery. Moreover, I am a Corresponding Fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and I consider that AAN Criteria for Brain Death Diagnosis represent one the most outstanding and reliable Guidelines in the world for confirming the diagnosis of brain death.

http://www.nationalreview.com/human...est-proves-jahi-not-brain-dead-wesley-j-smith

 

[I Object!]

If you go to the Alameda County Superior Court website and look up her case - (It's in probate court - RP13707598) it clearly shows the motions, the withdrawal of motions, the declarations in support and the court appointing Dr. Fisher as its medical expert with regard to the determination of death. If you recall, Dr. Fisher was appointed last year and approved by both the hospital and the deceased's family to determine life or death.

A link would be helpful.

FYI: the Court hearing was POSTPONED.

Other tests performed by various physicians had not been conducted, which is needed for the court to consider.


http://www.christianpost.com/news/j...dead-despite-her-breathing-and-eating-127813/

 

[TJL]

One really is more than a tad confused to hold a belief it is just a scam to sell organs. Selling human organs is ILLEGAL and it also has nothing to do with Jahi's case. Nobody has suggested Jahi's organs would be sold.

I'm truly baffled at the constant posting opinion as fact that this board-certified physician is some kind of quack with an agenda.

It wasn't opinion. It was from his own writings. I gave you the links, quoted his own words, and then commented as to what I thought about his own writings. Would you feel better if I deleted my thoughts on his own writings? Would that, then, validate for you what he said himself? Let me know what works for you, as I will be more than happy to oblige. It's as easy as editing my own post and removing my thoughts on his own personal writings where he said brain death is something doctors conveniently use in order to procure more organs.

 

[I Object!]

I guess my question would be... did he perform all the standard tests that experts in December did 3 times? It certainly doesn't say that he did. He performed imaging and he viewed test results that I believe (and people can correct me if I am wrong) were performed in a non-medical setting. Is that the complete extent of his testing?

One really is more than a tad confused to hold a belief it is just a scam to sell organs. Selling human organs is ILLEGAL and it also has nothing to do with Jahi's case. Nobody has suggested Jahi's organs would be sold.

I'm truly baffled at the constant posting opinion as fact that this board-certified physician is some kind of quack with an agenda.
JMO

Machado, a very credentialed neurologist, medical professor, and recipient of the American Academy of Neurology Lawrence McHenry Award in 2005 because of his research in the field. In short, he is a very respected expert in the field of brain death.

He also believes that brain death is a real phenomenon. From his declaration under penalty of perjury:

I must affirm that I am a defender that brain death means death of the human being, and it is a state with no hope of recovery. Moreover, I am a Corresponding Fellow of the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), and I consider that AAN Criteria for Brain Death Diagnosis represent one the most outstanding and reliable Guidelines in the world for confirming the diagnosis of brain death.

http://www.nationalreview.com/human...est-proves-jahi-not-brain-dead-wesley-j-smith