Jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #37 *may contain graphic and adult content*

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Why does it matter if she shot him first or somewhere in the middle or at the end? Does that somehow lessen the horror of his death? If she did shoot him first does that mean anything in terms of the charges? The judge already ruled regardless of the order of the wounds the hurdle was met to allow a jury to consider the DP if they get to that point.

How will the absolute definitive answer ever be known about the exact sequence of wounds inflicted? Think Jodi is going to be honest about that and tell us? I doubt it. Can you trust what she says on the stand? I don't.

The way I see it, no one will ever really know what exactly went down in the exact order moment by moment. Not even the killer will have full recollection to be able to recreate each micro-movement. It's a debate with no end because the answer isn't going to be known to anyone's satisfaction.

There are 2 choices. Go with the expert who actually viewed, autopsied and analyzed the body, or imagine a different scenario based on...well...whatever other criteria people who aren't the medical examiner and didn't actually view the body use. By the way, the M.E. opined the blood pouring down TA's back in that one pic is consistent with the neck wound. Common sense backs that up since that was the largest wound with the most and fastest blood loss. No other wound on TA's body would pour from the neck area down over a shoulder.

JMO, this is why I personally believe that the defense has to put the shot to the head first. They are also saying that the headshot would not have rendered him unable to fight and harm her.

I will say that it matters a lot if Travis was shot first or last. It matters in the “self defense” claim. The defense is trying to say that Jodi had to shoot Travis as he lunged at her to save her own life. He did not go down from the shot and continued to go after her. The gun jammed and she was “forced” to resort to using a knife* in order to save her own life. He continued to go after her and in a terrified panic she repeatedly stabbed him and sliced his throat to finally stop him. She was a battered, abused woman who feared for her life.

*She will explain that she kept the gun and knife in her backpack for protection when she was traveling alone.

The defense is trying desperately to keep the needle out of her arm. This is why they are claiming that he was shot first and that he could still harm her.
 
Its the defense making it a big deal, right? They want the gun shot to be first. Or, do I have that backwards.

The defense was trying to argue that the DP should be eliminated based on the order of the wounds. The defense also tried to impeach both Flores and Dr. Horn and further tried to cause a mistrial because Flores opined something different at an earlier hearing. All those strategies failed.

The only qualified medical opinion is that of the M.E. And regardless of which wound was inflicted first, the previous trial judge ruled any sequence of wounds still qualified the case as a death penalty case and the seated judge concurred and the motion was denied.

Thus ends the potential argument for wound sequence usefulness for the defense. They got nothing from that argument. It was and remains a moot point.
 
Kinda related: Does the DT have a forensic scientist witness lined up to contradict the ME? Will the DT be calling the ME to the stand? Does anyone know? [I thought there was a witness list somewhere]

I don't think so and there's no real reason to provide a different opinion of the sequence, from a defense perspective.

I'm guessing the State cannot bring in how they believe she came to have the gun because if she stole it, it's a crime, if she didn't and filed a report it was stolen it's a crime so it would be prior bad acts can not be admitted. Even though she hasn't been charged I don't think they can bring that part in. jmo

They have to bring it in. And they probably don't care about a potential theft charge from another state that has no incentive to charge her.

stern·er, stern·est
1. Hard, harsh, or severe in manner or character: a stern disciplinarian. See Synonyms at severe.
2. Grim, gloomy, or forbidding in appearance or outlook.
3. Firm or unyielding; uncompromising.
4. Inexorable; relentless: stern necessity.


A stern disciplinarian...that's what came to my mind. She was disciplining Travis for not obeying her, and for denying her, imo.

And for not dying as quickly as expected.

The horror of that, really.

We'll see what happens with Jodi's expert, but I think Jodi has discredited her "battered woman" defense in so many ways that it is going to make it difficult for the expert. I think the DV expert will have to testify that "IF" what Jodi says is true, then it could cause a battered woman type response and create a distorted fear for her safety in situations that other people would not reasonably have such fears.

Exactly. It will be, I think, like the Casey Anthony trial during which an Expert testified in generalities about how people grieve. Because if they have an expert diagnose Jodi then the prosecution expert has a crack at her and they don't want that.

He has never changed his opinion of which came first. In fact he was never even asked that question by anyone until he was deposed by the defense and then he answered truthfully, imo.

IMO

That's true.

i.m.o. ...

IMO too!

jodie is just like dahlia dippolito, she was caught on tape trying to hire a hit man to kill her husband, and flat out denied it never happened. ( i think she got 20 yrs) i just don't see how she can plead self defense. i don't think she has one bit of remorse for travis

Do you know she got 20 years but has been on house arrest at her mama's since she filed an appeal? Pisses me off and baffles me. Florida. Got to love it.

With the operative word being "reasonable". Wouldn't she have to retreat from causing him further harm than necessary for her to get away from him? At least that was my understanding, notwithstanding he may have tried to get the knife away from her.

:waitasec:

Right. I always think of it as like force to like force.

Right. And I just think it's pretty preposterous to think a medical examiner is going to come to his scientific conclusions based on the state's theory or the state's sentencing anticipation.

IMO, if the ME was going to be a yes man for the state, it would have been better for him to conclude that the gunshot was first because that's what the detective had been saying all along, and that is actually easier to understand. He didn't come to that conclusion, however, because it is not what he believes from his examination.

I think the ME's conclusions are based solely on his scientific evaluation of Travis' body and wounds. I still happen to think the gunshot was first because that is the only way I can get my mind around it, but I do not take issue with the ME or think he had any agenda other than to testify truthfully about his scientifici conclusions.

I agree 100%. This ME came to his conclusions based on his scientific analysis of the evidence.

But like any area of science or study, there is often/sometimes room for interpretation.

I have to admit I actually had PPL in the past BUT had no clue where it originated, etc. I actually know many people who had it. No, I am not Mormon.

It was cheap, $10 a month, and rates never went up (had it over a a 20 yr. period). It does not give you unlimited legal counsel. You called a number and told them what type of advice you were seeking...ie...real estate attorney, etc. An attorney would return your call within a certain amount of time. They then gave you legal advice on your question/subject. They might also write a letter or make phone calls for free.

You got a reduced rate on attorney representation in court or more involved cases...but had to use their attorney.

I used them to get a contractor to finish an in-ground swimming pool, to clear up several title problems on a home I bought (without a realtor), to write a letter to my now husband's ex-wife when she harrassed/threatened me and son (and it stopped her), and got a couple speeding tickets reduced, etc. This was all pre internet and they gave me advice on rental property laws, insurance advice, etc. I never paid one cent for any of these things.

They were great for small things. They always told me what they could do for free, and what the charges would be for larger things. They must have contracted with a very large law firm in the city in which I lived. It was like I had a good friend for an attorney who would give me legal advice or would write me letters, etc. for free.

I NEVER EVER considered calling them when I got a divorce (which cost me a truckload because my ex wouldn't settle). I wanted to pick my own attorney and wanted the best.

Ok...my secret is out...don't throw tomatoes...and please don't mail me any pamphlets you find at the mall!

It doesn't sound like a bad deal, frankly, for minor things. I charge a revolving retainer of $500.00 per month for the same type of thing. Meaning they have to replenish the retainer each month to 500 to have access to me for simple questions, occasional letters, etc.

Thanks. That's what I thought. Since the report was silent and the point of his testimony was dp qualification, I believe that was the reason he (somewhat equivocally) supported the stabbed first scenario. I think another expert could just as reasonably conclude that Travis was shot first. So, back to the original point, now that dp considerations are resolved, will it help the State to stick with stabbed first? I really don't think so. In fact, I think it's the major weakness in its case, if there is one.

I really don't think it's a weakness at all.

I noticed Mark Fuhrman said the same thing on FoxNews. Maybe it is due to multiple weapons being used? In other words, uncommon for a perp to start with a knife and switch to a handgun? I believe there was also some speculation the gun may have jammed after the first shot, therefore the knife became the weapon that actually killed Travis.

Personally I cannot see how the bullet casing ended up on top of the blood pool unless the gun was used AFTER Travis had been stabbed and dragged back into the shower.

:waitasec:

MOO

It jammed and later, she was able to eject it?

Its a semi-automatic. It ejects when fired. I use to have a .25 caliber.

IMO

But what if it jams?
 
I still haven't gotten an answer to WHY it matters if the gunshot came first or not? What difference does it make? I don't get it. The charges don't change, the possible sentences don't change. The murder is still considered cruel and heinous regardless.

So what is the difference?

Every murder is cruel and heinous, not just this one. What fascinates me is the indomitable will to survive, and the mind-body response. Travis showed that will to survive and his wounds proved that. IMO, he was his own hero in that way. There is a certain dissociation that takes place when we are faced with such a horrifying event and we strive to make sense of things as best we can. I apologize if I have offended you in that pursuit. You are correct. It changes nothing.
 
I think that her rage knows no bounds. She wants to completely annihilate him. She is getting ecstatic pleasure out of being on the stand, IMO.

One of the most infuriating things for me, is watching her little smiles as she proudly discusses how 'jealous' he was when she talked to other men, or the way she 'glows' when she gets to publicly reminisce about when he asked her to go the Executive Ball. She was reenacting 'Pretty Woman' in her twisted head. She loves every minute of this torturous tedious testimony.

I know that BEFORE she testified, the pundits were saying that it was going to be hard for Juan to cross examine her, because she was going to elicit sympathy. But now that she has droned on and on and on for so long, I don't think it is going to be a problem. JMO
 
I like it when he gets testy with the DA.
I do too....frankly Wilmott just came across as just...awkward? She's as painful to listen to as Nurmi is.
Wilmott-"I've always heard that head wounds bleed, the scalp is something that bleeds a lot. Is this true?"
Horn-(with straight face) "Yes, scalp wounds do bleed.":rolleyes:
 
I never got the impression that JA was a golddigger (I know you did not say that) or that $$ was that important to her based on her former boyfriends' lifestyles when she was with them and she did not work at high paying jobs.

I think if she were after a man's money she would have picked somebody other than TA, without roommates. And if the $699 check was for reimbursement to TA and she was paying him for the car and he gave her a job cleaning house, well, where are the freebees that a golddigger would expect?

If I were a golddigger, I would expect the man to pay for all the above and kick the roommates out of the house and be college educated and have a non-MLM job where there is a dependable salary. (medical ins? retirement plan? in the event I got him to marry me) That is just me. :moo:

You're assuming she was bright. And you're assuming that Travis had no golden future. I think she was totally a gold digger, maybe not on your scale, but given her parasitic lifestyle, it's a good guess.
 
JA may love the current limelight and the chance to float her stories out there, but think ahead to 5, 10, 15 yrs out. Will anyone remember the details of what she said on the stand? I doubt it. They'll remember she was a liar and twisted and that'll be about it. She'll forever be the crazy psycho stalker who brutally murdered an ex-boyfriend. She will fade away from the collective consciousness just as surely as any other common rage killer. And TA's family and friends will continue to hold him in their hearts forever.
 
One of the most infuriating things for me, is watching her little smiles as she proudly discusses how 'jealous' he was when she talked to other men, or the way she 'glows' when she gets to publicly reminisce about when he asked her to go the Executive Ball. She was reenacting 'Pretty Woman' in her twisted head. She loves every minute of this torturous tedious testimony.

I know that BEFORE she testified, the pundits were saying that it was going to be hard for Juan to cross examine her, because she was going to elicit sympathy. But now that she has droned on and on and on for so long, I don't think it is going to be a problem. JMO

I agree. I will not be surprised if at the peak of Juan's cross examination, Jodi starts to shake and raises hers arms to protect herself against Juan's attack.
 
JA may love the current limelight and the chance to float her stories out there, but think ahead to 5, 10, 15 yrs out. Will anyone remember the details of what she said on the stand? I doubt it. They'll remember she was a liar and twisted and that'll be about it. She'll forever be the crazy psycho stalker who brutally murdered an ex-boyfriend. She will fade away from the collective consciousness just as surely as any other common rage killer. And TA's family and friends will continue to hold him in their hearts forever.
Oh I think those who followed this case at Websleuths might remember a lot lol. The general public? Nahh.
 
Perhaps, but in 15 years there will be a whole slew of new members who never heard of the case. There will undoubtedly be scores of new murder cases that command attention in the interim. Arias will not achieve the notoriety of a Ted Bundy or Gacy or Diane Downs or Susan Smith. She's just a loser who ended one life, tossed away her own, and she will be warehoused in some prison to grow old.
 
I agree. I will not be surprised if at the peak of Juan's cross examination, Jodi starts to shake and raises hers arms to protect herself against Juan's attack.

I suspect she's rehearsing her Chihuahua shiver nightly in her cell.
 
I should be doing my algebra but of course I am not fully motivated...as I should be. :banghead:
I thought I'd google Nurmi.
I found some interesting articles. I am not a fan of his however these are posted just for general reading...y'all can form your own opinions.

One case he has done
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/article_5bdfab3c-c205-511d-aada-0dffdaaa7d85.html

This was a pretty high profile one...only vaguely heard about this one since I live in a different county.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/article_77d5c1f9-fd8b-5d0d-9a6e-566094ed2c36.html

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/article_3dc1dad5-aec2-5945-8a1c-dcbcb31c2c8a.html

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/article_d374875c-a4c6-5120-bac3-6fbbd91a3c1b.html

The outcome
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/news/article_8e24ccb1-1ce3-5bd4-be0c-c0966ac908b2.html

Thanks frag. Did I miss weather he was privately attained, or a PD?
Did catch the pink socks on the defendant!! lol
 
The bloody palm print and the pulled hair with root attached that had TA's blood on it (for starters) would have been a big clue that she was there. That alone would be enough to get her convicted. The pictures helped nail her and they supplied the sequence and timing, but even without the pictures they'd still have her. Her DNA + TA's DNA were mixed and at the crime scene and it wasn't just because she was there during a prior visit. Her palm print in TA's blood. That alone is all they needed.

LE did have the bloody print and her hair at the crime scene. With suggestions by some who knew Travis that "she" did it, she would be investigated and LE would connect her to the murder. The camera was a bonus.

MOO

And with that.........good night until tomorrow!
:seeya:

Oh yeah! Thanks, I forgot about the bloody palm print. Yeah, that's kind of a big deal--I feel pretty dumb. I'm forgetting lots of important facts in the endless weirdness of Jodi's testimony. I can't wait for Juan's turn to ask the questions.
 
Thanks frag. Did I miss weather he was privately attained, or a PD?
Did catch the pink socks on the defendant!! lol

For both cases he was PD. Just like this one. And pink socks...yes well....probably took some fashion cues from his lawyer lol.
 
The defense is trying desperately to keep the needle out of her arm. This is why they are claiming that he was shot first and that he could still harm her.

Even if she shot him first, she could have gotten away and escaped. The shot at a minimum would have stunned him and caused him to fall down. That would have given her enough time to run out of the bathroom and out of the house. He wasn't in a position to follow her out of the house. His injury from that gunshot wound would have been enough to at the very least slow him down substantially. So her self-defense claim makes no sense. She had the advantage at every possible point in that 2 to 3 minute sequence. And that's excluding the knife altogether. That one gunshot alone created noise, confusion, a brain injury, and some level of incapacitation.
 
This murder was clearly all out of control. It was not contained, there was a river of blood, the killer left foot/shoe prints, palm print, hair at the scene, pictures proving her presence, and on top of all of that, she was the #1 person everyone who knew Travis immediately suspected of committing this murder.

This is something that puzzles me greatly. She so clearly planned out everything and set the scene as best she could, who did she think would be accused of the crime? Nothing was taken and he had no known enemies, except for her. I mean it's possible that she believed that she would be accused but never caught, but I don't believe her behavior reflected that, such as going to the memorial, entirely. Maybe she believed that she would be accused but without evidence thought eventually the attention on her die down. It's still peculiar though...
 
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