Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

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What do you believe were the sequence of events?

  • Travis was stabbed, his throat slashed, and then he was shot

    Votes: 464 71.2%
  • Travis was shot and then he was stabbed and his throat was slashed

    Votes: 180 27.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 1.2%

  • Total voters
    652
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Also recall that Flores told Jodi that his search of her mother's residence turned up ammunition for a 25 auto and that this *matched* the bullet that struck Travis in the head. Jodi just stares at him when he says this.

Does anyone know if Jodi visited her mother sometime between My 28th and June 3rd?

There has to be a reason for why defense council didn't bring this possible "discrepancy" up during the cross of the ballistics expert.
 
Travis was likely hit by a jacketed hollow-point bullet based on my understanding. Nothing about the bullet deformation and trajectory can rule it out. As a 25. auto, they are lower velocity and velocity is key to having it expand like a mushroom. This often does not happen with 25 caliber ammunition. Another point is that the bullet almost immediately struck bone which likely clogged the hollowed cavity, making it behave like a traditional FMJ. There is a study that supports this.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/76612-study-bullets-dont-expand-if-striking-bone.html

I've found some information that could actually prove it. Based on my searches, it seems that Winchester only produces FMJ 25 auto ammunition with a weight of 50 grains. All winchester "expanding points" (hollow point) seem to be 45 grain. The bullet that struck Travis weighed 44 grains, consistent with 25 auto expanding points made by Winchester. Further, the ME testified to finding no evidence for bullet fragmentation in his skull and this would suggest that the weight of the bullet after impact should be very similar to the weight before impact.

I've tried comparing shell casings but it's inconclusive (picture too dark and shadowed). Perhaps someone else would like to "expand" on this?

Excellent analysis. Thanks dude!
 
If her intent was to kill him with a gun, do you think she brought the knife along with her or left to get it?

ETA: I did look at the pictures, but I was wondering if there were any prior to him getting in. Again, it's possible that it was a posed session. Since I don't know, and there is no real evidence to point either way, imo, it becomes irrelevant to me. But, yea, if you are theorizing that she had the gun on him the whole time, then it would make sense that there was no soap and that's why.

Mark Fuhrman thinks she brought the knife to degrade and humiliate him in death. He says he's seen that before in cases where one partner has decided to kill the other partner out of rage [he mentioned homosexuals for some unknown reason]. So he thinks she was planning to shoot him and then cut him after death. It just occurred to me, maybe dismember him to remove the body? :eek:

So, yes, I do think she might have brought the knife, but you can't prove it.

IMO
 
I think they have to be swipe marks with a rag or towel. They look to straight and purposeful, as if she did really quick straight swipes. I mop the floor that way with a sponge mop. One long wipe down, and push it back the exact way or as close as possible. People are looking for a reason that the gun casing could fall on the blood later--this might be how. She didn't even see it and she kicked it while cleaning what was a bigger priority to her--her fingerprints on the wall.

Jodi cleaned up. That's how all the towels and sheets wound up in the washer. What do you think she used the bloody towels for if not clean up?

The water on the floor, maybe she used the towels to try to wipe up some blood off the floor, got overwhelmed and abandoned the idea.

Just theories. I like fleshing them out with you. It's helping shape the crime scene for me in a way I haven't seen in court. The pics you refer to are on your Geevee's media?

BBM
I think I've uploaded all the pics I've mentioned but if one or more aren't there let me know and I'll add them (or any other one you want to discuss). I think we can learn so much about what happened by studying the pics.

I don't think she wiped the floor in that location is my point, the pool of blood with the casing is right there and most of the water flowed down the hall and not back into the sink area. But that swipe pic is the most I've been able to see of that area left of the sink (and no pic of the linen closet door front), JM maybe holding out further pics as he goes through his rebuttal to explain why the casing is in that particular location.
 
Nancy Grace just presented it. They showed that front face picture of him looking horrified in the shower. They had arrows to the [his] right eye. I had to look at it for a bit to see what they were talking about. If you looked directly at his pupil, it did kind of look like you could see two people standing side by side with a space in between them. Spooky.

When it's blown up on the tv screen, it's easier to see.

The person who found this was mentioned by name but was not a guest. So she just threw that out there at the end of a segment.


I, too, have always had a gut feel that she brought along one of the boyfriends to help. But, as far as I know there is no evidence of that. Were there any unidentified footprints? Or any strange bruises on his body as if he were restrained?

IMO
I found it on this link-----but if true of course it would point to an accomplice and not 2 ninjas as she has admitted to the killing. Guess it is not being taken seriously as any kind of evidence. But it's interesting.

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/national/Jodi-Arias-trial-Man-claims-he-can-see-people-in-Travis-Alexanders-eye-reflection-before-killing

Here is a comment from a poster:
This gave me chills because I have always thought that Matt McCartney was also involved in this killing. Does he have any alibi for these days. His open letter that is posted out there sounds to me like he had some involvement, and it would explain why there was a gun and a knife used. One had the gun...the other the knife. Wow very creepy!

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/na...s-eye-reflection-before-killing#ixzz2ONLe1tXl
 
To my thinking, an accomplice would make her look diabolically pre-meditating, and would point to murder one and death penalty as just punishment. For me, and likely others, it would throw the whole self-defense idea out the window....

Yes, she could lie but the accomplice could counter her and her lies would not be believable. NOT saying she had an accomplice, just wondering why I have always had an intuitive sense of this - and with her new scenario of victimhood, she is not going to say anything. Just grist for the mill.

Her self defense... uh, defense, isn't believable either, mostly because of the overkill and all of the premeditation involved. Besides, people have different pictures in mind of what self defense looks like, and 29 stab wounds, a slashed throat and bullet to the head isn't one of those pictures. So, imo, between blaming an accomplice and self defense, blaming an accomplice is an easier story to comprehend.

She wouldn't be pleading self defense if another person was present. She would just be blaming him and would simply state she was not guilty. She wouldn't have had to get up on the stand to testify, although she probably would have still wanted to. The state would have to prove that she had the knife and gun in her hands at some point, and with the whole nature of "he said/she said" cases, where an accomplice flips on another, it would be more difficult for them to prove that she had any hand in physically killing him. And, again, people don't associate what she did with women, so they would be much more likely to believe that a man took down another man than a woman taking down a man.

Just consider that women often get lighter sentences than men when they commit murders together, and people already have a hard time imagining her carrying out the murder alone. The defense would paint her as this naive, impressionable woman who is easily manipulated, (as they've tried to do in this case) and when her current boyfriend suggested they take a trip to "visit" Mr. Alexander, little did she know what events would unfold. She is also a victim to this monster and shouldn't have to pay for his crime! (cue loads of "crying") He is a sadist, a cold blooded killer and Ms. Arias now has PTSD from watching him slaughter her former lover right before her eyes. There was nothing she could do to save him! Had she tried to stop Mr. X, she would very likely be dead today. (watch hard for her to shake like a chihuahua) Women often make bad choices, and that is what this was. A bad choice. She shouldn't be punished for this man's actions! etc etc, and so on.

That wasn't the best "opening/close argument" lol. I'm just saying that they could have more easily painted her as a victim, imo, if another man was involved and she was able to transfer 100% of the blame onto him.

Man, this got a lot longer than I anticipated. Hate when that happens. lol.
 
I've always wondered how she managed that. I've tried to figure out how does she step out of all that blood in the hallway and leave no tracks. I tried to think how I would do it, and it's not easy. She has socks on in the last picture so she had to put a clean shoe on one foot, step over, put clean shoe on other foot before you put it down.

well, you get the picture lol. No bloody footprints anywhere on the rug in the bedroom.

Maybe someone carried her out of there? Or handed her the shoes? Little things like that bother me.

IMO

Well, she would take the socks off and the entire bathroom floor wasn't covered in blood. She could tiptoe around it. If someone else would have carried her out, did they levitate? lol :p because they would have to avoid the same blood that she was avoiding.
 
Her self defense... uh, defense, isn't believable either, mostly because of the overkill and all of the premeditation involved. Besides, people have different pictures in mind of what self defense looks like, and 29 stab wounds, a slashed throat and bullet to the head isn't one of those pictures. So, imo, between blaming an accomplice and self defense, blaming an accomplice is an easier story to comprehend.

She wouldn't be pleading self defense if another person was present. She would just be blaming him and would simply state she was not guilty. She wouldn't have had to get up on the stand to testify, although she probably would have still wanted to. The state would have to prove that she had the knife and gun in her hands at some point, and with the whole nature of "he said/she said" cases, where an accomplice flips on another, it would be more difficult for them to prove that she had any hand in physically killing him. And, again, people don't associate what she did with women, so they would be much more likely to believe that a man took down another man than a woman taking down a man.

Just consider that women often get lighter sentences than men when they commit murders together, and people already have a hard time imagining her carrying out the murder alone. The defense would paint her as this naive, impressionable woman who is easily manipulated, (as they've tried to do in this case) and when her current boyfriend suggested they take a trip to "visit" Mr. Alexander, little did she know what events would unfold. She is also a victim to this monster and shouldn't have to pay for his crime! (cue loads of "crying") He a sadist, a cold blooded killer and Ms. Arias now has PTSD from watching him slaughter her former lover right before her eyes. There was nothing she could do to save him! Had she tried to stop Mr. X, she would very likely be dead today. (watch hard for her to shake like a chihuahua) Women often make bad choices, and that is what this was. A bad choice. She shouldn't be punished for this man's actions! etc etc, and so on.

That wasn't the best "opening/close argument" lol. I'm just saying that they could have more easily painted her as a victim, imo, if another man was involved and she was able to transfer 100% of the blame onto him.

Man, this got a lot longer than I anticipated. Hate when that happens. lol.
Thanks for this thorough post, and yes, absolutely get all your points.

I guess what I was thinking of is a case like that of Pamela Smart, school teacher in early 1990s who had male students kill her husband - she attempted to say they did so without her consent but the jury believed the boys that it was at her direction - she got LWOP.
 
Question for you experts - How do we know for a fact that Travis even knew he was being photographed in the shower? What kind of lens/camera was being used? By the angle of the photos, was there a place where JA could have taken SOME of these photos without being noticed? I don't have a layout of the bathroom but I sure am not buying that Travis was reviewing photos with JA while he was in the shower.

Nope, not possible based on the flash going off in the very first shower photo, some 7+ minutes before the killing, and the position of the camera relative to TA in some of the photos.
 
Mark Fuhrman thinks she brought the knife to degrade and humiliate him in death. He says he's seen that before in cases where one partner has decided to kill the other partner out of rage [he mentioned homosexuals for some unknown reason]. So he thinks she was planning to shoot him and then cut him after death. It just occurred to me, maybe dismember him to remove the body? :eek:

So, yes, I do think she might have brought the knife, but you can't prove it.

IMO

How would she have had time to go get a knife and come back? In this instance, I DO think that the timestamps are a pretty good indicaton that she had the knife nearby. Even she knows that there isn't enough time to run off and find a knife, so she came up with the story about cutting rope in the bathroom to give an excuse as to why the knife was at the ready.
 
I'll give it a shot.

He gets out of the shower after that last picture and head to the toilet. He's gotta pee. When he comes out of that room she hands him the camera so he can look at he pictures she took of him, and hits him with the knife. The element of surprise with a knife, which hurts, is significantly overlooked. A quick hard blow that she intended to hit the heart. She missed a little, but he was completely unprepared. He drops the camera (the ceiling picture), and stumbles back a few steps toward the toilet area as his brain tries to catch up to what happened. She after him again. She is coming at him from the right, so he is trying to go left. He goes down half in front of the toilet and the scale area. He manages to get up, and knocks her back, possibly down. He stumbles near the sink and catches himself and remains uprigth with the aid of the sink. This is when he starts coughing. She comes at him again at the sink, hitting the wounds to the back of the head and/or the cluster in the upper back. He is trying to clear his airway. He manages to get to the r hand wall in the hallway. He turns his back to the wall so it will support him. He is trying to fight of the stabs, but he is getting weak and is having trouble staying upright. The anterior neck wounds and the scalp wound occur during this volley of stabs. He reaches the end of the hall. Near the outlet at the bedroom end of the hall, there are two large smears of blood on the wall. He went to the ground for the last time here. He is trying to crawl into the bedroom and presumably to the stairs. She cuts his throat at the tile-carpet juncture and he fall forward onto the carpet. She feels she has killed him so she starts dragging him back to the shower (during this dragging, she hits the camera with her foot and we get the pic from the top of the head. The camera ). Near the light switch she either slips or has to put her hand on the wall for leverage, leaving her palm print on the wall. She gets him drug back to the area in front of the linen closet. She is exhausted. She steps back to catch her breath for a second. He has been making noises and convulsing the whole time so she is unsure what is going on, he should be dead. His body starts making noises and the neurlogical system fires off a few last involuntary contractions (because blood flow has been cut-off). She misinterprets this as him trying to get up. She pulls the gun out and fire one shot hitting him in the forehead. The bullet passes through the Frontal Lobe, causing the "Cerebral Shock" the ME described thus causing him to finally go limp. She gets him in the shower. Rinses herself off, then drys. Grabs the clothes she had on (maybe the bloody clothes found in the washer) and takes all the stuff found in the washer to the washer. Comes back upstairs with the gun and the towel she used, picks up the knife near the end of the hallway, and puts the knife and gun in her purse (maybe wrapped in towel) accounts for the drops found in the bedroom. Gets dressed and locks the bedroom door behind her as she leaves.

Thanks for stepping up to the challenge and giving it a shot. A few comments:

Why would Jodi have let Travis get up from a vulnerable seated position an a small enclosure before initiating the attack? This is the biggest problem with your theory. Travis is a physically imposing man to Jodi. Seated in a small shower stall puts him an ideal position for Jodi to initiate the attack. She is now standing above him, and he is trapped without any leverage. But I think knife-firsters need the attack to start outside of the shower because it would make no sense to start trying to stab Travis in the shower while he was sitting down. This does not represent an ideal target at all for a knife attack, as vital organs are not exposed. However, it represents a very nice target for a sudden gunshot to the head. And of course the bullet trajectory matches this scenario perfectly. In the final shower photo, Travis' right side is toward Jodi. Travis is shot in the right forehead. The bullet trajectory is down through the face. Travis is sitting down, Jodi is standing up with the gun. It is simply a perfect fit.

In your scenario, Travis gets himself up and out of the shower before the attack begins. He would likely have dried off prior to using the toilet in your scenario. Then he uses the toilet. Then Jodi approaches him with the camera to show him the photos. He takes the camera, Jodi suddenly stabs him. All this in 45 seconds? What is Jodi doing, standing by with the camera while Travis dries off and takes a pee?

After Travis picks himself up near the toilet (following the initial attack and knocking Jodi back/down), he travels to the sink, faces the sink for several seconds coughing blood. If he had an advantage over Jodi with her off her feet or knocked back, why would he not take advantage of this and try to fully subdue her? Instead, you have him turning around to face the mirror, leaving himself completely vulnerable to another attack from behind?


Ok, my turn.


I again go back to the video which shows the photos in real time:

[video=youtube;pEEW7S16o0c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEEW7S16o0c[/video]

The death scene, according to Travis' camera, goes like:

Photo#/time stamp (YouTube video time)

1) 5:29:20 - Travis looking at the camera (video time 6:13)
2) 5:30:30 - Travis lower half seated (video time 6:24)
3) 5:31:14 - Bathroom ceiling (video time 7:09)
4) 5:32:16 - Travis with neck slashed (video time 8:14)
5) 5:33:32 - Travis being dragged (video time 9:29)

Watching the photos in real time helps convey how much time Jodi had to conduct the mayhem. What fits for me is:

Jodi has Travis just where she wants him: seated in the shower where he represents the least threat possible short of him being tied up. Travis' right side is facing Jodi. She waits for exactly the right moment, perhaps while Travis is wiping water from his eyes with his right hand (which is not visible in photo #2. She shoots Travis at, or immediately after, photo #2. This might have been the exact moment the gun went off. As she pulls the trigger and the gun fires, the recoil causes her other hand to unknowingly snap photo #2.

Travis reacts, and Jodi immediately tries to fire another round to the head. The gun jams. Jodi tries to again to get the gun to fire, but no luck. To her horror she sees that Travis is anything but dead. She knows she must now finish the job. She retreats from the bathroom to retrieve the knife (perhaps in the bedroom). There is a significant pause prior to photo #3 (~45 sec) This would be the time that both Jodi and Travis realize the gun is jammed. Jodi departs the bathroom to get the knife. Travis, stunned by the gunshot, doesn't just continue to sit in the shower and bleed. He manages to up himself, and before trying to get help for himself, instinctively moves to the sink to assess the wound. He may have thought Jodi was leaving the scene at that point and was not an immediate threat. He was probably shaky and a bit disoriented, and had to prop himself with wet hands on the front of the sink. Blood is dripping from his nose from the sinus wound, leaving a trail of blood droplets on the counter in front of the sink pointing back to the shower. Clearly Travis was facing toward the mirror, so Jodi was not engaged in knife slashing at that point because she left to retrieve the knife.

Jodi returns. Travis may have seen her in the mirror and turned to face her. She may have partially concealed the knife and pretended to be concerned about the wound so Travis would lower his guard (I can just hear her feigning concern at this point to gain advantage again.) She lunged with a straight-on knife thrust to the chest, aiming directly for his heart with the one really clean shot she had before Travis started defending himself. Travis, mortally wounded, was still able to attempt to fend off subsequent knife thrusts, incurring defensive wounds. Jodi still had the camera in her hand, and photo #3 was snapped during the start of the knife attack (this might also have been an unconscious reflex of her right hand as she lunged at him). Travis realizes that he is overcome and must flee, and attempts to escape toward the bedroom. Jodi continues stabbing, Travis falls, and Jodi finishes him off with additional stabs and finally the coup de grace.

Total time for the murder: about one and three-quarters minutes (between photos #2 and #4). Total time for the knife attack: about a minute (between photo #3 and #4).

Between photo #4 and #5, another minute and 17 seconds elapses. What is Jodi doing during this minute? I'm guessing she was assessing the unplanned horror in front of her, grabbing the duvet cover, and maneuvering Travis' body back toward the still-running shower.

Dave
 
Thanks for this thorough post, and yes, absolutely get all your points.

I guess what I was thinking of is a case like that of Pamela Smart, school teacher in early 1990s who had male students kill her husband - she attempted to say they did so without her consent but the jury believed the boys that it was at her direction - she got LWOP.

There are definitely times where women get the jail sentence they deserve. In that case, the teacher is the manipulative party. Would have been hard to buy that the manipulation would be the other way around.

Then you have someone like Karla Homolka who was able to negotiate a plea deal and get out of serving any real time for the serial murders she and her husband committed. Of course, that was before they found the tapes that showed that she was deeply involved. Most cases don't have videotapes, though. lol People just have a hard time seeing women as being capable of being sadistic and evil. When women kill, it's usually in a more passive way. But,yea... across the board, women's punishments tend to be lighter than men's who commit the same crime.

But, yea that's why I reject the notion of an accomplice. I just think JA would have had him under the bus so fast that he would not have known what hit him.
 
@wasnt_me:

So supposing this was a posing session and not a real shower:

TA was trying to extricate himself from JA (he had told Mimi he was not "temple worthy" which showed he must have discussed this with church elders and was "on probation" (?) - so why would he allow pictures which could be used to blackmail him at this point? (altho I guess it was his camera)

Just trying to figure out the logic of it all....

smk

I'm going on the limb here but I have/want to believe TA after going to his bishop would not pose willingly. I'm not a camera expert but I have tried research altering timestamps on camera and it can be done. There are youtube videos showing programs that do this as well as software that change the exif of pictures. But you need a computer. I'm not sure these timestamps on June 4 are accurate. Sex pics just before 2pm and 3.5 hours later the shower. Makes her look like she spent the day and they were active.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/01/03/jodi-arias-evidence-photos-nancy-grace-mysteries-day-4

Please disagree if you see differently because these pics are not as clear as I want but #18 of 180 shows bedspreads. I think she is laying on the checkboard spread (smaller squares, light/dark) and he is laying on the spread with bigger brown squares all within 50 seconds with the KY facing a different direction being shot on opposite sides of the bed. She is above his head taking picture of him (almost on the sneak) it seems.

Just thinking...who puts timestamps on these type pictures as well as the shower pictures...takes away from the beauty or lack thereof of the shot.

Day 7 on the Flores interview before the Ninja story, when talking about the sex picture she says something like... prior to TA getting his camera (april I believe, correct if wrong) all these pictures were on my camera. She says it!

Shortly thereafter she say the memory cards were interchangeable...Flores then says ...how do you know or who says there interchangeable. She replies That's why I'm asking... She realizes she has to play dumb. Later she proposes she's missing 3 memory sticks and maybe left them at TA's house and Flores asked if she thinks she is being framed .

[video=youtube;Y-oIDEfAjSI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-oIDEfAjSI[/video]

Give a listen from about 55:00 to 60 min.

I's curious on rebuttal if PD witness using their software can tell what she had on here damaged HD or what software TA had on his. If any timetamp software was on either.

This would be setting him up in my opinion if photos were not from June 4. I'm stressing I know nothing about digital camera but would look to others for guidance.
 
But, yea that's why I reject the notion of an accomplice. I just think JA would have had him under the bus so fast that he would not have known what hit him.

But that is assuming Jodi wants to share credit for killing Travis, that I am not so sure.


I have felt all along there has to be a second person, JA is not a character from Ben 10 such as Four Arms
12-Four-Arms.jpg


There is no way IMO little ol Jodi could overpower so easily to just annihilate Travis with not a injury to herself worth mentioning, let alone Camera toting, Pistol packing, knife slashing all in one killing machine with two arms.
 
smk

I'm going on the limb here but I have/want to believe TA after going to his bishop would not pose willingly. I'm not a camera expert but I have tried research altering timestamps on camera and it can be done. There are youtube videos showing programs that do this as well as software that change the exif of pictures. But you need a computer. I'm not sure these timestamps on June 4 are accurate. Sex pics just before 2pm and 3.5 hours later the shower. Makes her look like she spent the day and they were active.

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/01/03/jodi-arias-evidence-photos-nancy-grace-mysteries-day-4

Please disagree if you see differently because these pics are not as clear as I want but #18 of 180 shows bedspreads. I think she is laying on the checkboard spread (smaller squares, light/dark) and he is laying on the spread with bigger brown squares all within 50 seconds with the KY facing a different direction being shot on opposite sides of the bed. She is above his head taking picture of him (almost on the sneak) it seems.

Just thinking...who puts timestamps on these type pictures as well as the shower pictures...takes away from the beauty or lack thereof of the shot.

Day 7 on the Flores interview before the Ninja story, when talking about the sex picture she says something like... prior to TA getting his camera (april I believe, correct if wrong) all these pictures were on my camera. She says it!

Shortly thereafter she say the memory cards were interchangeable...Flores then says ...how do you know or who says there interchangeable. She replies That's why I'm asking... She realizes she has to play dumb. Later she proposes she's missing 3 memory sticks and maybe left them at TA's house and Flores asked if she thinks she is being framed .

Jodi Arias Trial: Day 7 : Police Interrogation Video (No Sidebars) - YouTube

Give a listen from about 55:00 to 60 min.

I's curious on rebuttal if PD witness using their software can tell what she had on here damaged HD or what software TA had on his. If any timetamp software was on either.

This would be setting him up in my opinion if photos were not from June 4. I'm stressing I know nothing about digital camera but would look to others for guidance.
Thanks for posting this and I am taking time now to look at all of it more clearly- but will just begin by saying that:

1. I too would like to believe that TA would stick to his resolve and religious principles and not break them for sex when he was about to depart on a chaste trip with Mimi.

2. I too had wondered at the date/time stamps as they can indeed be manipulated.

3. However JA did in fact delete the sex pics - however I have always wondered how she could be naive enough in our era of computer forensics and CSI to not know that EVERYTHING you delete can ALWAYS be accessed by Law Enforcement.

4. ETA: Yes I can see and had thought to myself that she may have transferred pics from her own camera- pics which could be used to "out" him; yes the times may be quite different and the timeline of June 4 may be quite different---for some reason they blank out the pics after the first 4 and I cannot access #18---- :( .
 
1. I too would like to believe that TA would stick to his resolve and religious principles and not break them for sex when he was about to depart on a chaste trip with Mimi.

I find this thought process to be very naive, Mimi may have said he was gettin NONE, but Travis clearly thought he could for the lack of a better term, charm the pants off of her at some point during the vacation. I am a guy, I know how guys think.
 
I find this thought process to be very naive, Mimi may have said he was gettin NONE, but Travis clearly thought he could for the lack of a better term, charm the pants off of her at some point during the vacation. I am a guy, I know how guys think.
Okie, gotcha - will take your word for it. So much for Mormon principles....:furious:
 
The "shoot firsters" in this thread concern me in regards to the jury. I cannot fathom ignoring actual evidence and expert testimony in order to substitute my own theory. . .and I hope no one on the jury thinks that way.

"Well, I know the medical examiner who has done 6000 autopsies says one thing. . .but I've done 0 autoposies and I believe another."

"Well, I know the bullet casing was found in blood with no blood on top of it (only under it). . .but I'm just going to ignore that evidence because it doesn't fit the story I want to believe."

If this woman doesn't get convicted, I'm going to lose faith in our justice system. Maybe randoms off the street aren't qualified to determine guilt or innocence.

Erm, by "randoms off the street", do you mean American citizens doing their civic duty?

Wow. Just wow.
 
But that is assuming Jodi wants to share credit for killing Travis, that I am not so sure.


I have felt all along there has to be a second person, JA is not a character from Ben 10 such as Four Arms

There is no way IMO little ol Jodi could overpower so easily to just annihilate Travis with not a injury to herself worth mentioning, let alone Camera toting, Pistol packing, knife slashing all in one killing machine with two arms.

There is a way, you just can't fathom it. :p :wink:

What can I say? People routinely underestimate women's strength. Even in a scenario where the male victim was caught off guard, is in shock, naked and wet, moving across tiles, has been stabbed in the chest and is going up against someone who is likely not pausing between stab wounds, but who is slashing furiously. Even with all of that, people can't see how it's possible.

Another thing I consider- With two people in the bathroom, I don't see him getting down the hallway, not with all the wounds he had, and especially if he had a shot to the face already, like the "gun firsters" suggest.
 
I find this thought process to be very naive, Mimi may have said he was gettin NONE, but Travis clearly thought he could for the lack of a better term, charm the pants off of her at some point during the vacation. I am a guy, I know how guys think.

I'm a female, and I agree. lol.
 
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