Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #3

[TigerBalm]

To our new and lovely member Mintedlace!

Wait... so TA didn't care about her "trashing" his BMW and "he took it so well" but she dropped his camera and all hell broke loose?! Enough for her to "fear for her life" so she had to stab him 27 times, slit his throat and shoot him?

Yeah, makes perfect sense...

:takeabow: :bow: :takeabow: :bow: :takeabow:

To our lovely gitana1, one of my favorite attorneys!

My gosh. Imagine this: He's in the shower, naked, with a girl taking photos of him, urging him on, "This will be so sexy, baby." Then BAM, she stabs him in the heart. In shock, he grabs the knife and stumbles up, to get away, to get a breath, to live, to survive. He lurches, with minutes of life left, to the sink, where he futilely coughs up blood, straining to breathe, hoping he will make it. But, to make matters impossibly worse, he begins to jerk as he feels the knife being stabbed viciously into his back, once, twice, three times, four, five six, seven, on and on and on.

His life blood is literally slipping away, but the human instinct to try to survive is great, so he claws around and weak-kneed, falls slowly to the ground. He continues to feel the knife stabbing him, and he can't stop it, but he crawls, pathetically trying to get away. Then, the worst of it all, he feels his murderer straddle him. What is she going to do know? In a second, he knows as he feels her hand jerk his scalp back and feels the knife slice into his neck, so strong, so hard, that his head is almost cut off. He sinks to the ground and he dies. His body is then dragged back to the place he tried to escape and a bullet is put into his face, into his brain. One last indignity.

This happened to a man. A human being. A once sad kid who had druggie parents but who was miraculously recused by his grandmother who loved him and his siblings and taught them her faith which became so important to him. He was imperfect, and had faults. He was possibly even hypocritical at times. But he had dreams like we all did. He saw a bright future filled with kids and love and life. He was a brother, a grandson, a friend. And as his body was slashed to death in a shower stall, ALL of that was taken from him.

THAT is disgusting. THAT is horrific. That is one of the saddest things imaginable.

:takeabow: :bow: :takeabow: :bow: :takeabow:





:gthanks: Nursebeeme our lovely mod, who does so much for so little (no) pay!
:takeabow: :bow: :nurse: :bow: :takeabow:

 

[Sulamith]

He ummm liked to finish on her back.....according to her

:what: I had forgotten she said that! TMI from JA!

 

[belimom]

My thoughts on JA and Travis:

I come from a fairly religious background and went through a period of being quite religious myself (not just spiritual but religious). I had friends in those religious circles who would engage in sex with someone on the periphery and keep it secret. My roommate was the 'peripheral' person who corrupted quite a few guys that I knew in college. For some reason, guys found her irresistible and would see her behind their girlfriends' backs, etc. At least two of those guys are now ministers.

So when I see someone like JA and Travis, I do think that she corrupted him in the sense that he had never experienced anything like this before (whether he was a virgin or not, I think their relationship pushed the limits of anything he had ever done). She was the aggressor, the teacher. I do think he got tired of it after awhile and that his spiritual self and his morals and what he wanted longterm in a woman finally helped him come to his senses (not sure 'help' is the right word here since he lost his life...). But I think he tried to break it off for those reasons. And she flipped. She would not take 'no'. Climbing through the dog door?!? That's pretty desperate.

He didn't know how to get away from her. The more attention he brought to the situation, the more chance there would be that someone in the church may find out about the sexual relations. I'm not up on his background and his being a motivational speaker, but if it's true as Ryan said today that Travis was flown in to a seminar, then Travis was good at what he did and didn't want to chance bringing attention to this 'sinful' relationship. And that was his mistake: trying to handle someone like JA on his own, instead of letting LE know, instead of moving, instead of installing security/cameras, etc.

While some of the pictures show him smiling, the one of him in the shower (which I assume was taken that last fateful night?) depicts a man who is very angry and/or afraid. I think by that point in time, he had had enough but she was bossing him around and he was too nice of a guy to say get the f out of here. Plus I think she is/was extremely manipulative and controlling, and he was no match for her in that area so he just did whatever she wanted.

This is just my opinion and I could be off base. I jumped in here kinda late so I'm not up to speed on everything.

 

[belimom]

Which one do you think she is? If any.

I can't really say because I don't know, and I wouldn't want to as a professional who has never seen her in person. I would hate to be quoted somewhere else on the internet as 'there's this psychologist on Websleuths who claims that JA is..... and giving out armchair diagnoses'.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Karmady]

It was long long ago....when I was thin and gorgeous! No one wants to see that now! Lights off! Lol

That's what I'm counting on. If I ever did such a thing :::cough::: no one would recognize me now

 

[indicat]

Yes, there are ways a person can make up for it but the Mormons also can excommunicate a person, so no making up for it. Excommunication can be terrible for a person who still wants to be a member of the Mormons and just does not shrug it off and join another church. Mormonism is complicated compared to other Christian churches. (shrug)

Even if you are excommunicated you can be rebaptized, we do believe in forgivness. There are a lot of over complicated and misunderstood things going on here about mormonism but I'm not on this board to preach nor defend my religion and I hate how its been used to vilify Travis, not saying you've done that Sulasmith, just using this post to jump off of since it gives the impression Travis was doomed forever by the church because of his conduct, absolutley not so. The church has a website lds.org where many questions can be answered.

And from the question above this, no we do not shun people, that is not what a loving Father in Heaven wants us to do.

 

[ErnestBorgnine]

I can't really say because I don't know, and I wouldn't want to as a professional who has never seen her in person. I would hate to be quoted somewhere else on the internet as 'there's this psychologist on Websleuths who claims that JA is.....'.

Hope this makes sense.

Thank you for this and your other post. I was talking to a friend about Paul and Karla from Ontario Canada. I think she reminds me a bit of Karla.

 

[Sulamith]

Who said JA climbed in the doggie door? Did that person catch her in the act? Details? TIA

 

[indicat]

I don't know why there is a religious aspect to this trial. Its still cold blooded murder whether the victim is Buddhist, Mormon or Catholic...

No one was exceding societal norms sexually or otherwise...

Thank you!

 

[Karmady]

Maybe there is a Youtube video of that 48 hrs show?

I watched it a long time ago. She was cool as a cucumber -- no, MUCH cooler than a cucumber. If she's not already toast, she will be when they play it. I'm a pretty good judge of character and I knew before I watched that there was no way her story was plausible. But her demeanor even knowing almost postiively that she was lying her *advertiser censored* off was frightening in how possibly "convincing" it was. When the jury sees how easily and well she lied then, there's no way they're believing her now. Just no way.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Even if you are excommunicated you can be rebaptized, we do believe in forgivness. There are a lot of over complicated and misunderstood things going on here about mormonism but I'm not on this board to preach nor defend my religion and I hate how its been used to vilify Travis, not saying you've done that Sulasmith, just using this post to jump off of since it gives the impression Travis was doomed for ever by the church because of his conduct, absolutley not so. The church has a website lds.org where many questions can be answered.

And from the question above this, no we do not shun people, that is not what a loving Father in Heaven wants us to do.

So in reality, it's really not that big a deal. Speaking objectively, as an atheist....you can be forgiven, there isn't a hell, even the crappy circle of heaven is better than anyone can imagine....

Doesn't sound much different from other Christian religions to me. The no hell thing is a plus.

Perhaps it's just a tad more embarrassing because its confessed to a human being, like Catholics ...sorta.

 

[nells]

Maybe there is a Youtube video of that 48 hrs show?

I've checked but didn't see that particular show. I remember it, though, and I believe she was still stating (at that point) that two men did the crime and she fled.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you for this and your other post. I was talking to a friend about Paul and Karla from Ontario Canada. I think she reminds me a bit of Karla.

What does her actions, reactions and behavior tell you she is?

Do you believe she premeditated it?

Do you believe she loved him?

Do you believe she has any remorse at all? Not talking about getting caught.

Do you believe she felt any fear at all when she called that detective, gave interviews?

Do you believe she's manipulative?

 

[Curious Me]

Very good points. But I think Jodi didn't try to blackmail him because she wanted a "bigger" prize: she wanted to be his future wife...

Jodi seemed to think her SEXUAL GOODIES would make him weak and he's break down and fall in love. His sexual desires were her currency. No other girl was probably up for getting freaky with him the way he secretly desired. She tried to leverage this, to be his ultimate Madonna-*advertiser censored*.

Like many women, Jodi wanted to be fabulous on the arm of a successful, handsome, popular guy. She lived the dream for a few months, but then it started slipping through her fingers. Mostly because she acted too weird.

Travis basically put her down, viewed her as not much better than trailer trash. He'd been there and wasn't going back. She wasn't good enough for him, and they both knew it. He insulted her beyond what she could take.

This is JMOO. Travis may have said some terrible things about Jodi to her face, but she was a manipulative stalker that would not fade from his life. People who don't respect boundaries or take strong hint-hints will eventually force you to try the rude, mean approach. They still might not go away! I'm very interested to find out if Travis was really at all interested in hearing or seeing her again, other than she owed him some money. Jodi makes it sound like a mutual thing they were both continuing, but in reality Jodi was throwing herself at him, IMO.

BBM

 

[Isabelle]

OT: TCM movie on: "Midnight Mary" starring Loretta Young, about a woman on trial for murder recalls the men in her life.!

 

[MsCharlieChan]

Originally Posted by bobloblaw ... I don't know why there is a religious aspect to this trial. Its still cold blooded murder whether the victim is Buddhist, Mormon or Catholic...

Sorry, but I disagree. I think the religious aspect is HUGE. In fact, if the defense does their job well, they will play up the religious aspect to the 10th power. I say this because:

1. Travis was a Mormon of somewhat high standing. It was so important to him that he sent California Mormons to Jodi's house to "work on her." He succeeded in converting her. That, the defense can say, shows he had enormous influence over Jodi. In fact, they could put forth that Travis kind of BRAINWASHED Jodi into his "cult."

2. The Mormon belief places men on a throne, and women as their foot-servants. Mormon women can't even get into heaven on their own virtues; they're accepted only if their husband "invites" them. And we've heard all those other cult-related stereotypes about how Mormon women are dominated by their men. If the defense works this angle, this can cause uncertainty about who Travis may have been in an intimate relationship.

3. To my knowledge, other religions today won't actually kick members out for fornicating. But the Mormons take fornication very seriously and will disgrace you with excommunication. The defense could argue, "What else, other than the obvious fornicating, was Travis sneaking and doing that was unsavory? Was he possibly violent with the lowly girl who 'soiled' him?"

 

[LaneGirl]

Even if you are excommunicated you can be rebaptized, we do believe in forgivness. There are a lot of over complicated and misunderstood things going on here about mormonism but I'm not on this board to preach nor defend my religion and I hate how its been used to vilify Travis, not saying you've done that Sulasmith, just using this post to jump off of since it gives the impression Travis was doomed forever by the church because of his conduct, absolutley not so. The church has a website lds.org where many questions can be answered.

And from the question above this, no we do not shun people, that is not what a loving Father in Heaven wants us to do.

Thank you and my apologies for the "shunning" comment. An earlier post mentioned "disfellowshiping" and "excommunication" and I translated that to shunning. Again apologies, but that was my understanding thanks for helping us out.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you for this and your other post. I was talking to a friend about Paul and Karla from Ontario Canada. I think she reminds me a bit of Karla.

I know little of that case as I didn't follow it closely. But if I recall correctly, I walked away thinking that Karla was in charge, but if the two never met....no one would have died.

Were you left with the same impression, or am I way off base?

 

[FrayedKnot]

I approach this information a little differently than if I was a juror. The jurors have the responsibility to be completely impartial. I don't. I try to be as open-minded as I possibly can, but I form/change opinions as I gather information just like most other people do daily. If I were a juror, tho, I would do my best to be as impartial as humanly possible.

I have not posted my opinions about TA's personality one way or the other. For some reason, I haven't felt right about further magnifying the issue. I suppose I find it along the same lines as commenting on the type of revealing clothing that a rape victim might have worn. It is irrevelent to me, and honestly, rather distasteful, IMO.

I understand that the DT is going to bring these issues up, and that is an unfortunate reality. Collateral damage, so to speak. But I am not going to perpetuate it by adding my opinion one way or the other. When the victim has behaved in a way to warrant the crime, then I will comment. Otherwise, it goes in one ear and out the other for me. So anyway...back to the pertinent info, lol.

It does not matter at all how TA behaved in his "relationship" with JA as it pertains to his murder.

Short of self-defense, there is no reason JA could have that justifies killing Travis. So what he was really like regarding JA and other women doesn't apply to the case.

I guess I just think that sometimes the prosecution can do a bit of a disservice to a victim by trying to make them into something they were not in life. I have never been on a jury, but I think it would make me suspicious (like it does watching remotely) that they aren't being honest about other things too.

I mean, most people are smart enough to figure out that most people are flawed and have human weaknesses and it doesn't mean that they deserve to have bad things happen to them. By sanitizing a victim for a jury, it sends the opposite message.

I really mean this in general, too, not just this case. And it's JMO.

 

[Curious Me]

Maybe there is a Youtube video of that 48 hrs show?

There's a 48 hrs. Trailer video, but not the full episode. I looked hard last week.