tumble said:The painttray was found outside the wine cellar door. Together with the wooden fragments from the brush.
Are there any photographs of the doorway leadning to the train room?
tumble said:The painttray was found outside the wine cellar door. Together with the wooden fragments from the brush.
Are there any photographs of the doorway leadning to the train room?
Yes, my thought was that it was relocated there by the perp.UKGuy said:tumble,
Patsy asked LHP to tidy the painting materials away, and I doubt LHP would have placed the paint-tote on the floor outside the wine-cellar.
It was likely re-located there as was JonBenet's corpse?
.
tumble said:Yes, my thought was that it was relocated there by the perp.
But where did the perp get if from.
BlueCrab, you are relying on this fact to determine that John was lying when he said the window was ajar when he went down to the basement at 10 am. I don't think this is adequate to decide for certain such a crucial point.BlueCrab said:But Officer Rick French had searched the basement at about 6:05 AM looking for a point of entry and making sure an intruder wasn't hiding down there. He found neither. French did not report anything about an open basement window, even though that's the very thing he was looking for, and there are only three windows in the basement.
BlueCrab
IMO anything FW says cannot be proclaimed as gospel, he was after all, a central player in the whole affair and he might very well have a vested interest in keeping the real truth hidden.BlueCrab said:Then, around 6:20 AM Fleet White searched the basement looking for JonBenet and calling out her name as he searched. Fleet found the broken basement window and inspected it, but did not report anything about the window being open.
IOW, Rick French and Fleet White had both inspected the window prior to John Ramsey and neither reported the window open. In fact, it seemed to have surprised John to find out that Fleet had also been in the basement early that morning -- thus putting Fleet in a position to refute John's open basement window story.
Therefore, it appears that John was lying about finding the window open at 10 AM (or at any other time) and had fabricated a fictional open window to accomodate a fictional intruder.
BlueCrab
French went down there alone shiloh. I don't know what he was told before he went down there. Not much that would have made any sense I would have thought, it was sheer bedlam in the house at the time wasn't it?shiloh said:Someone refresh my memory here -- I wasn't able to find this in a cursory search of PMPT. Who was down in the basement with Officer French that morning? Was it JR? Someone had told him that there wasn't an exit from the wine cellar, so neither of them bothered to look. Book and page # would be helpful.
Thanks for refreshing my memory on these points shiloh.shiloh said:Be fair, BC. FW said he was down there in the basement early that morning. FW said he found the window closed and unlatched. JR said that he went down there later, he found it open only 1/8 inch, and he closed it and latched it. The stories are not inconsistent.
It is also possible and quite likely IMO, that FW did a bit of chair and box moving when he went down after French and before John. He would, of course have done this surreptitiously IMO, to conceal evidence of the previous night's activities and therefore is not going to tell police what he did.BlueCrab said:The evidence supporting this is the chair that John says was blocking the trainroom doorway, and hence blocking the way to the window in the trainroom. He said he had to move the chair, and some boxes, to get into the room. But Rick French and Fleet White had entered the trainroom BEFORE John Ramsey claims he had entered it, at 6:05 and 6:20 respectively, and they didn't report any chair, or boxes, blocking the door.
BlueCrab
It was Detective Fred Patterson who ordered everyone to stay upstairs just before he left the house at 11 am, AFTER John had gone down to the basement.trixie said:Now you be fair Shiloh. You know good and well John Ramsey was asked to stay with the group and he did not do that. He was not free to go into any room he wanted to. He was asked not to anyway. Obviously he must have thought the rules didn't apply to him. However, I do agree it with you that it doesn't indicate guilt on his part.
Oh boy, wouldn't I just love to have seen those notes.BlueCrab said:Fleet White made a lot of handwritten notes that morning, so he too may have documentation about the window.
BlueCrab
So John was probably referring to the children's playroom. Just because it is denoted as a playroom on the plans of the house that are published everywhere doesn't mean the Ramseys couldn't have referred to it as the TV room, they probably had the biggest TV in the house in that room and when they all watched TV together they watched it in the TV room.Thorkim said:Two things stand out to me after thinking about this interview. I'm assuming this was Lou Smit and John. First, John says he ran upstairs and got the blanket, then went back downstairs to cover JonBenet. Ok, John, when did that happen? You're right Toltec. It sure as hell didn't happen at a little after 1:00 pm when Arndt sent him on the finding JonBenet quest.
The other strange thing is saying "probably" the tv room. Didn't he know? This falls into place their fairy tale of a book the Death of Innocence. Usually, they would do this and that on Xmas morning. No details on this Christmas. They are so vague. Why didn't I pick up on this gem before? Thanks Toltec, great catch.
I agree, an artist's depiction is an artists' depiction and not necessarily accurate especially if it is prepared for a tabloid.rashomon said:That's right Sissi. The artist obviously got it wrong because the photo at the crime scene you mentioned (where she had to have been in rigor mortis!) shows Jonbenet with her elbows bent and not stretched out above her head and she looks like she is sleeping.
But not with the body still there?rashomon said:The actual crime scene picture is on the ACandyRose site, I don't have the link here at the moment (I believe the caption says 'Jon Benet at house').
I think the blanket she was wrapped in when she lay in the cellar was left there. John picked up the body, and carried only that upstairs. Both blankets were taken by police during search warrants.rashomon said:But I almost fell out of my chair when reading that John allegedly ran upstairs to get a blanket, for wasn't Fleet White with John when he discovered JB's body at 1 pm, and hadn't she already been wrapped in the blanket then??
The door was never closed, it was just the doorWAY that was being discussed, Cranberry, even though John often refers to it as the 'door'.Cranberry said:From the JR interview, the chair and drum table were on the outside i.e. entrance side of the door, which proves no one exited via the train room window. If I remember correctly, JR said he had to move the chair and table to open the door.
Yes the butler's kitchen (called Lower Hall on the plan I've got) adjacent to the kitchen itself.Cranberry said:I'm not sure where the paint tray was normally stored. I remember reading it was up in the kitchen area until Thanksgiving time when it was moved to the cellar.
And then moved to the basement.Cranberry said:I think it was found outside the door - can't remember if it was the train room door or the wine cellar door. It sounds like the chair and table were moved around a bit when the crime scene photos were taken, but that's just a wild guess.
Even so, the blocked doorway doesn't fit an intruder theory. Why would an intruder bother moving furniture in front of the doorway on his way in or out?aussiesheila said:The door was never closed, it was just the doorWAY that was being discussed, Cranberry, even though John often refers to it as the 'door'.