John & the Basement

[BOESP]

DeeDee249,

The difference might explain why JonBenet was missing underwear, then again you would expect to find a wednesday pair in the washing basket, or on her floor etc. Also if as you suggest Wet is wet and Patsy is resigned to JonBenet wetting the bed, so allows her to continue wearing her underwear, then why should she become so enraged when she does wet the bed?

Does anyone know if JonBenet actually had on a proper size 6 pair of Bloomies panties on Christmas Day? I can't remember if Patsy was asked this or not.

 

[BOESP]

JMO8778,


Something forced John to use his shirt, whether it was JonBenet not wearing underwear or it had already been used, who knows, but those fibers link John not only to the crime-scene but any alleged sexual assault.

Why do you say that he used his shirt. Could not the fibers been transferred to her if John were doing the staging. He has to be leaning over her or even carrying her and then the transferrence happens. I really doubt that he would intentionally USE his shirt. He is smarter than that.

Those shirt fibers are troublesome and certainly incriminating. I wonder if he picked up JonBenet from the bathroom and carried her to basement; or put the size 12s on her in the basement; or if they were transference from Patsy's clothing; or something else?

I can see shedding several fibers if he put the panties on her. Whoever "peeked" into all those packages, and Patsy said it was her and she was looking for Burke's birthday present, knows how those fibers got there.

Why leave open the paper on all the other presents where you peeked if all but the birthday gift for Burke were intended as Christmas gifts? Wouldn't you think once you found Burke's gift you'd tape the others up and put tags on them if they were gifts. Good grief, they were leaving early in the morning in the 26th then quickly returning for a Big Red Boat trip. Seems to me the Christmas gifts should have already been re-taped and tagged and mailed or else in a sack to carry to Charlevoix.

 

[UKGuy]

Does anyone know if JonBenet actually had on a proper size 6 pair of Bloomies panties on Christmas Day? I can't remember if Patsy was asked this or not.

BOESP,
Nobody is saying, both John and Patsy never noticed, they say we would have noticed if she had not been wearing any, and Patsy has no recollection of changing or directing JonBenet to change her underwear.

 

[UKGuy]

JMO8778,


Something forced John to use his shirt, whether it was JonBenet not wearing underwear or it had already been used, who knows, but those fibers link John not only to the crime-scene but any alleged sexual assault.

Why do you say that he used his shirt. Could not the fibers been transferred to her if John were doing the staging. He has to be leaning over her or even carrying her and then the transferrence happens. I really doubt that he would intentionally USE his shirt. He is smarter than that.

Solace,
Sure they could be transferred, but they still arrive at JonBenet's genital area, but she was discovered wrapped in blankets, dressed in longjohns and size-12 underwear and had been wiped down, the parents say they never changed her underwear. So the fibers link John to the alleged sexual assault!

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,
Nobody is saying, both John and Patsy never noticed, they say we would have noticed if she had not been wearing any, and Patsy has no recollection of changing or directing JonBenet to change her underwear.

Thanks UKGuy. If that is wholly the truth maybe JonBenet had on pull-ups and wanted to hide them with the size 12 pair of Wednesday Bloomies.

I'd buy the Ramsey's story except there were no other size 12s found in the panty drawer where Patsy said the size 12s should be. Alternatively, they were not found downstairs as a wrapped Christmas gift (which was their original function).

The Ramseys returned the missing size 12s to the cops many months after they moved to Atlanta, saying they had found them in a packing box from the move from Boulder.

If we accept the Ramseys knew nothing about the panties, maybe JonBenet had wet her pull-ups, then the melee started that caused the head wound and someone forget to put more pull-ups on JonBenet and instead just pulled up the size 12 panty she already wore.

Would either parent recognize the overly large panty under the circumstances -- maybe not. However, there's no way the criminalists missed retrieving the remaining panties if they were in the panty drawer as Patsy said. That just isn't going to happen unless they were so well hidden no one could think to look in a particular place. There would be no reason for an Intruder to take time to hide the remaining size 12s. An Intruder wouldn't have cared.

Something is still rotten in Denmark.

 

[Ames]

Thanks UKGuy. If that is wholly the truth maybe JonBenet had on pull-ups and wanted to hide them with the size 12 pair of Wednesday Bloomies.

I'd buy the Ramsey's story except there were no other size 12s found in the panty drawer where Patsy said the size 12s should be. Alternatively, they were not found downstairs as a wrapped Christmas gift (which was their original function).

The Ramseys returned the missing size 12s to the cops many months after they moved to Atlanta, saying they had found them in a packing box from the move from Boulder.

If we accept the Ramseys knew nothing about the panties, maybe JonBenet had wet her pull-ups, then the melee started that caused the head wound and someone forget to put more pull-ups on JonBenet and instead just pulled up the size 12 panty she already wore.

Would either parent recognize the overly large panty under the circumstances -- maybe not. However, there's no way the criminalists missed retrieving the remaining panties if they were in the panty drawer as Patsy said. That just isn't going to happen unless they were so well hidden no one could think to look in a particular place. There would be no reason for an Intruder to take time to hide the remaining size 12s. An Intruder wouldn't have cared.

Something is still rotten in Denmark.

I agree! And I don't buy that cr@p about the Ramsey's turning them over, after "finding" them in a packing crate, either. The Ramsey's KNEW that JB had been found wearing size 12 Bloomies, and that they needed to be turned over to investigators. SOOO...then WHY were they packed in the first place? It seems reasonable to me, that if the Rams were innocent, then when packing...they would have said.." OH GEE...here is that pack of size 12 Bloomies that the police wanted...I WONDERED where those had gotten to, we need to get these to investigators...PRONTO!" Or if someone else was doing the packing for them...say, Pammy for example....then Patsy would have said..."Pam, now if you happen to run across a package of size 12 Bloomies, don't pack those....the police need them." To me, it just looks like they did every thing in their power, to avoid turning over any and all evidence.

 

[Squishified]

A question for any IDI's: Why would an intruder rummage through wrapped presents in the basement to find the size 12 bloomies?
Or did Patsy say the size 12's were in JonBenet's room?
Shoot-now I'm confusing myself. Ames help!!!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I agree! And I don't buy that cr@p about the Ramsey's turning them over, after "finding" them in a packing crate, either. The Ramsey's KNEW that JB had been found wearing size 12 Bloomies, and that they needed to be turned over to investigators. SOOO...then WHY were they packed in the first place? It seems reasonable to me, that if the Rams were innocent, then when packing...they would have said.." OH GEE...here is that pack of size 12 Bloomies that the police wanted...I WONDERED where those had gotten to, we need to get these to investigators...PRONTO!" Or if someone else was doing the packing for them...say, Pammy for example....then Patsy would have said..."Pam, now if you happen to run across a package of size 12 Bloomies, don't pack those....the police need them." To me, it just looks like they did every thing in their power, to avoid turning over any and all evidence.

Oh, here's the story, from an IDI on another board...the police were so inept that they couldn't find the underwear in the drawers all along, so they completely missed them, even though they were there - and they sat there until June of 97, when some people the Rs hired to pack their house went in and just put everything in boxes. The Ramseys didn't open the box that had come from JB's room until much later, and oh my stars, they finally looked in that box years and years later and found those underwear. Of course they sent them straight off to the DA's office...cause by the time the Rs looked in that box, the case had conveniently gone from the BPD to the BDA.


The Rs saved the day with their quick thinking and forthright actions after all hope was practically lost by the evil EVIL mean bad nasty jealous BPD's ineptitude and corruption.

 

[BOESP]

I agree! And I don't buy that cr@p about the Ramsey's turning them over, after "finding" them in a packing crate, either. The Ramsey's KNEW that JB had been found wearing size 12 Bloomies, and that they needed to be turned over to investigators. SOOO...then WHY were they packed in the first place? It seems reasonable to me, that if the Rams were innocent, then when packing...they would have said.." OH GEE...here is that pack of size 12 Bloomies that the police wanted...I WONDERED where those had gotten to, we need to get these to investigators...PRONTO!" Or if someone else was doing the packing for them...say, Pammy for example....then Patsy would have said..."Pam, now if you happen to run across a package of size 12 Bloomies, don't pack those....the police need them." To me, it just looks like they did every thing in their power, to avoid turning over any and all evidence.

The only excuse I can make for them is if they hired a moving company to pack all their stuff. I don't know if they did or not. Regardless, the Ramseys knew the size 12s were important and, in my opinion, they screwed up royally by returning the newly found package from Atlanta. I'd bet they thought it looked like they were being forthright and cooperative. They'd have been better off never "finding" the size 12s.

 

[Ames]

A question for any IDI's: Why would an intruder rummage through wrapped presents in the basement to find the size 12 bloomies?
Or did Patsy say the size 12's were in JonBenet's room?
Shoot-now I'm confusing myself. Ames help!!!

I have read...SOMEWHERE...that they were kept in the bathroom drawer. That Patsy said that she had bought them for a relative, but that JB wanted them, so they just stuck them in the drawer for her to wear when she turned 10 or 12.... BUT...I have never read a transcipt of a Patsy interview...that said that. In her 1998 interview...she said that she had bought a pair of size 12 Bloomies for a relative, to give as a gift.....but didn't mention that JB liked them or wanted to keep them...if I recall correctly...I specifically looked for that portion at one time, but did not see it. Anyway, I would assume...imo...the package was wrapped, to give as a gift, according to what Patsy says in that 98 interview.

 

[Squishified]

I have read...SOMEWHERE...that they were kept in the bathroom drawer. That Patsy said that she had bought them for a relative, but that JB wanted them, so they just stuck them in the drawer for her to wear when she turned 10 or 12.... BUT...I have never read a transcipt of a Patsy interview...that said that. In her 1998 interview...she said that she had bought a pair of size 12 Bloomies for a relative, to give as a gift.....but didn't mention that JB liked them or wanted to keep them...if I recall correctly...I specifically looked for that portion at one time, but did not see it. Anyway, I would assume...imo...the package was wrapped, to give as a gift, according to what Patsy says in that 98 interview.

Now I'm even more confused. No wonder the Ramsey's were never charged. Who the heck can keep up with all their stories???

 

[Ames]

Oh, here's the story, from an IDI on another board...the police were so inept that they couldn't find the underwear in the drawers all along, so they completely missed them, even though they were there - and they sat there until June of 97, when some people the Rs hired to pack their house went in and just put everything in boxes. The Ramseys didn't open the box that had come from JB's room until much later, and oh my stars, they finally looked in that box years and years later and found those underwear. Of course they sent them straight off to the DA's office...cause by the time the Rs looked in that box, the case had conveniently gone from the BPD to the BDA.


The Rs saved the day with their quick thinking and forthright actions after all hope was practically lost by the evil EVIL mean bad nasty jealous BPD's ineptitude and corruption.

OH PULEEEEZZZZZ!!!!! Like the Rams didn't know where those size 12 Bloomies were all along. Give me a break. Any OTHER parents of a murdered girl...if asked to turn over a package of size 12 Bloomies...would tear the place apart trying to find them. My guess is...the Bloomies were wrapped as a present...down in the basement...after the package was opened, for the size 12's that were put onto JB that night, the package was THEN hidden. I mean, it would look sort of suspicious to leave an opened package on the WC floor...along with an open package of the same panties that she was wearing when she was found. That IDI theory is so ridiculous....if it had of been a REAL intruder, and he just got lucky and found those panties...he wouldn't have hid them. What would be the purpose? And if they were in a drawer...the police would have found them. They found the OTHER panties....because they are listed on the list of things that were taken as evidence from the Ramsey home. IMO..there are only two places that the panties could have been...IF THE RAMSEY'S HADN'T OF HIDDEN THEM.....in one of JB's drawers....or in the bathroom drawer. I do believe that they would have easily been found....if that had of been the case. And like I said before...INNOCENT parents...if they had of hired a moving crew to pack up their things...would have said..."the police want us to turn over a package of size 12 Bloomies...SOOOO...if you run across any, just let us know, because we can't remember where we put them."

 

[Ames]

The only excuse I can make for them is if they hired a moving company to pack all their stuff. I don't know if they did or not. Regardless, the Ramseys knew the size 12s were important and, in my opinion, they screwed up royally by returning the newly found package from Atlanta. I'd bet they thought it looked like they were being forthright and cooperative. They'd have been better off never "finding" the size 12s.

I agree! Since they knew that those size 12's were so VERY VERY important....they SHOULD have told the movers to set them aside, if they ran across them. (But since they are quilty...and were hiding the panties all along....that would explain why they didn't tell the movers that.)

 

[Ames]

Now I'm even more confused. No wonder the Ramsey's were never charged. Who the heck can keep up with all their stories???

Well, the Rams are really REALLY bad about leaving things out of their official police interview....but, adding things to their televised ones...like on CNN. Patsy said in her CNN interview...that she was heading down to make coffee when she found the RN...but, she doesn't mention this in her police interview. She also gave another version, to French, and investigator on the case. SOOOO....who knows what is the truth and what isn't. Yes, I am confused TOO!!

 

[Squishified]

Can't John still be questioned in regards to the murder? There is no statute of limitations on murder, so why not question him officially again?
Boulder doesn't seem to care if this case is ever solved.

 

[Ames]

Can't John still be questioned in regards to the murder? There is no statute of limitations on murder, so why not question him officially again?
Boulder doesn't seem to care if this case is ever solved.

No, they don't care.

On the Anniversary Special of JB's Murder....on "48 Hours".....it was stated that there is STILL A WAREHOUSE FULL of evidence that has not even been looked at yet. A few other posters saw the show and heard them say that too.....so it wasn't that I was hearing things. I believe that BOESP and Solace are just two of them...there are more, though...that heard it and can vouch for me. So, the fact that John has not been re-questioned....is no shock to me. Boulder is a place unlike any other...that's for sure.

 

[Squishified]

No, they don't care.

On the Anniversary Special of JB's Murder....on "48 Hours".....it was stated that there is STILL A WAREHOUSE FULL of evidence that has not even been looked at yet. A few other posters saw the show and heard them say that too.....so it wasn't that I was hearing things. I believe that BOESP and Solace are just two of them...there are more, though...that heard it and can vouch for me. So, the fact that John has not been re-questioned....is no shock to me. Boulder is a place unlike any other...that's for sure.

Makes me think of the book "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" which translates to me as "right time, right place".

 

[BOESP]

No, they don't care.

On the Anniversary Special of JB's Murder....on "48 Hours".....it was stated that there is STILL A WAREHOUSE FULL of evidence that has not even been looked at yet. A few other posters saw the show and heard them say that too.....so it wasn't that I was hearing things. I believe that BOESP and Solace are just two of them...there are more, though...that heard it and can vouch for me. So, the fact that John has not been re-questioned....is no shock to me. Boulder is a place unlike any other...that's for sure.

Yes, I heard it on 48 Hours, Ames. Also, I don't think Boulder wants to spend more money on a case when the two best suspects are dead (that is if we include Santa Bill, who Lacy believed was the killer, or so I read somewhere). Also, would you really want to reopen a botched case and subject your predecessors to, perhaps, malfeasance charges. I think Boulder sees it as the horse is already out of the barn and run off to greener pastures.

 

[Solace]

Yes, I heard it on 48 Hours, Ames. Also, I don't think Boulder wants to spend more money on a case when the two best suspects are dead (that is if we include Santa Bill, who Lacy believed was the killer, or so I read somewhere). Also, would you really want to reopen a botched case and subject your predecessors to, perhaps, malfeasance charges. I think Boulder sees it as the horse is already out of the barn and run off to greener pastures.

Apparently Lin Wood has done a good job of intimidating them. Such cowards. He did the same with Wendy Murphy and she outed it on Fox TV. We did not hear from him again on the subject. When is someone going to go on the record besides Wendy and tell Lin to take his best shot.

Do you think the Lawrence book will actually be out on December 1st. His website says it has been released.

 

[coloradokares]

I agree! Since they knew that those size 12's were so VERY VERY important....they SHOULD have told the movers to set them aside, if they ran across them. (But since they are quilty...and were hiding the panties all along....that would explain why they didn't tell the movers that.)

Trust me they turned that "hell hole" inside out there were NO Bloomies. You think the police and investigators missed them. Past Aunt Pam that place was sealed up tight to gather evidence. And they miss the bloomies that were so essential to the investigation. Not even they were that inept. Those boomies were either replaced or returned to the Ramesys by dead you know who that was in that house gathering funeral clothes and every other thing on the list. JMHO