JonBenet Ramsey's father calls beauty pageants "very bizarre"

[T4Tide]

I don't know what to say to you...it's very sad....but how good mother wouldn't know?

If you really know your child, talking with the child, taking good healthy environment (doctor visits, talking to her teachers and friends)...I mean, really-really know your child (not just gives the food and buy the cloth!) - HOW MOTHER CANNOT KNOW that something is wrong with her baby?! How?...Molestation is a huge stress shock for a child! Mother MUST know!...JMO....and please God don't proof me wrong!!!!

My mother did not know, because I did not tell her. Did she ask? Yes. Did she tell me and teach me that no one was supposed to touch me there? Yes. Did she question why I was red at times? Yes. I told her I rubbed it. She assumed I wasn't cleaning very well and helped me clean. She loved me, and I know for a fact she didn't know until I told her when I was 17 because it broke her heart. I didn't tell because the person told me NOT TO, and I was afraid. I was afraid he wouldn't be my friend anymore. I was afraid I would be in trouble. I was afraid I had done something wrong. I was afraid that if I told, he wouldn't love me, and my mother wouldn't love me, either, because I was bad. I was bad, because IT was bad.

Not at all defending the Ramsey's, but every mother out there who has been put into this situation, and babies like me who didn't tell.

 

[dodie20]

Not here. Lots of times when people hit deer...someone right there will load it up and take it home. I don't live rural either!


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Here, if people can get away with it, they might try to take a deer home, but if they get caught, they go to jail. But, considering the damage a deer can do to a car, I think if the driver wants it, he should be entitled to it. My sister and I hit one one time, and it just about totaled out my car. IDK what kind of roadkill this family was supposed to have eaten. Was it a deer? I hope it wasn't a raccoon or possum. gross, lol, not much would be left after being run over. moo

 

[txsvicki]

If two small kids are acting out sexually in the home the parent who does the most caregiving should probably be watching the kids well enough to catch some of the behavior. At least over a three year period from when jonbenet first had symptoms that the public knows about.

 

[OpenMind4U]

It's true. Seen it many times and i know first hand. Sometimes pedophiles are so masterful and cunning the child willingly complies and keeps their mouth shut. Children don't tell for many reasons, I knew something was wrong but it took me a few weeks to get to the bottom of it. My kid didn't tell because his abuser told him he would kill me and bury me in the back yard if he ever told. So in his little mind he kept his mouth shut to keep me alive


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O my God!!!! I'm so-so-so sorry....I couldn't imagine what you and your son went through...so sorry...

I think I shouldn't response to your original post the way I did. Please forgive me!

 

[OpenMind4U]

I completely disagree with you. My mother-in-law was a loving, GOOD mother. My husband's older brother was molested repeatedly by a parish priest in the parish were his mother taught in the Catholic grade school. He kept this CHILD silent by telling him that if he told anyone, he'd make sure his mother was fired from her teaching job (which she needed- having three kids to feed). He also kept his CHILD victims silent by giving them (starting at age 7) plenty of wine to drink. They likely didn't remember a lot.
He later became an alcoholic- no surprise there, when an adult gets you drunk all the time. He died of liver cancer caused by cirrhosis. He left a broken hearted 10 year old son when he died. We found out about the abuse on his deathbed. We never told his mother- she was 90 when he died. You do a great disservice to victims of child abuse by assuming their mothers always know. They don't.

DD, please take my appoligy...I didn't mean to insult anyone...And now I feel VERY BAD by stating my opinion....I'm asking forgiveness from anyone who been incountered with such a tragedy!!!...

I never said that 'their mothers always know'. I wouldn't have any facts and knowledge about. I simply raised my thoughts with disbelieve how mother could NOT know?...(it's quite a difference!)...but regardless, I'm really-really sorry...I should state that I'm pretty lucky so far for NOT have such experience!!!

 

[OpenMind4U]

My mother did not know, because I did not tell her. Did she ask? Yes. Did she tell me and teach me that no one was supposed to touch me there? Yes. Did she question why I was red at times? Yes. I told her I rubbed it. She assumed I wasn't cleaning very well and helped me clean. She loved me, and I know for a fact she didn't know until I told her when I was 17 because it broke her heart. I didn't tell because the person told me NOT TO, and I was afraid. I was afraid he wouldn't be my friend anymore. I was afraid I would be in trouble. I was afraid I had done something wrong. I was afraid that if I told, he wouldn't love me, and my mother wouldn't love me, either, because I was bad. I was bad, because IT was bad.

Not at all defending the Ramsey's, but every mother out there who has been put into this situation, and babies like me who didn't tell.

O my God!!! I'm so sorry...poor child!!!! Of course Mommy would loved you no matter what! You made me cry.......How can I eraze my STUPID-STUPID post?...it's hearbreaking to realize that my post brought such a memory back from so many victims!!!!............

 

[Linda7NJ]

O my God!!!! I'm so-so-so sorry....I couldn't imagine what you and your son went through...so sorry...

I think I shouldn't response to your original post the way I did. Please forgive me!

It's okay! Really! I shared because I wanted to, the more we can share with each other the better we can all have a better understanding of the dynamics of sexual abuse.


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[Linda7NJ]

If two small kids are acting out sexually in the home the parent who does the most caregiving should probably be watching the kids well enough to catch some of the behavior. At least over a three year period from when jonbenet first had symptoms that the public knows about.

IMO Patsy was one of those moms that was just happy to have her kids stay out of her hair.


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[midwest mama]

If two small kids are acting out sexually in the home the parent who does the most caregiving should probably be watching the kids well enough to catch some of the behavior. At least over a three year period from when jonbenet first had symptoms that the public knows about.

One of the housekeepers stated that she walked in on Burke and JB in bed under the covers and Burke shouted at her to "get out of here". I can't believe Patsy didn't know. Even if the only time she gave her a good scrub was for pageants!

And this opens up a can of worms that I have wondered about, even though JB SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN KILLED, and it is a tragedy that she suffered as she did, I wonder if JB had begun to participate willingly in some of the sexual activity. I have not seen any posting about this, except for some remarks about JB going with her 'kidnapper' willingly because she knew him.

But if we could accept that she might have been willing to particpate in the sexual activity, we might be able to understand that there was more rage attached to her death from a family member for reasons perhaps not connected to her fighting against sexplay. And, more reason why someone might have wanted to cover up signs of previous abuse - more sickness to 'keep out of the public eye'. Patsy was clear to make light of JB's pleasure at being 'flirty'.

If JB had been trained (and THAT is what is done to children who are victims - by the abuser) to accept a certain level of abuse as normal, and the abuse was escalating, especially during the attack that night, she might have fought back spontaneously, causing her attacker to want to use greater force to subdue her, which had previously never been necessary.

I know it's a disgusting thought and subject, but it occured as a primary factory in leading to JB's death, and without an 'intruder', the family dynamics need as much understanding as possible.:moo:

 

[dodie20]

O my God!!! I'm so sorry...poor child!!!! Of course Mommy would loved you no matter what! You made me cry.......How can I eraze my STUPID-STUPID post?...it's hearbreaking to realize that my post brought such a memory back from so many victims!!!!............

Don't beat yourself up too bad, because some mothers do know and look the other way. My mother would ask if something was wrong, but in the next breath say, 'don't you EVER talk about MY family, they are off limits to you kids'. So, when my brother was about 40, it all came out, and my mother actually had the nerve to say, 'I didn't know, I did the best I could, and things were different then', all the cliches, that excused her behavior. My brother still wet the bed at age 13, and I was seeing a psychologist at 16, but we weren't allowed to say why. She made me stop seeing the psychologist, because she accused me of blaming all of my problems on her, and she wasn't going to have me ruining her reputation. I only went a few times and her name was never brought up. So, we were trained real well...family business stayed private, and that was that. But honestly, I don't see how the Rs couldn't see the signs though. Their kids had wetting and soiling issues, and according to what I read, BR also had issues with smearing feces on the wall, and somebody, smeared feces on JB's chocolates. And these are just the few things we heard, so there's no telling what else went on. I know PR had been real sick, but JR was healthy, so IMO, he anyway, chose to ignore the problems. That's moo, based on my own life experiences, but BR and JB, weren't healthy little kids, and somebody should have noticed. MOO.

 

[LinasK]

If they really ate roadkill, then that could be the reason CPS is involved. Here, we can legally hunt, but we can't eat what we run over. I don't know the whys, but roadkill has been deemed unhealthy and unsanitary. moo

Oh, I don't know, just a guess:waitasec:, but how about tire tracks, rotting flesh and bacteria???:sick::sick::sick:

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh, I don't know, just a guess:waitasec:, but how about tire tracks, rotting flesh and bacteria???:sick::sick::sick:

Are you a vegetarian?

Because I would hate to be the one to break it to you that a 5 minute ago hit deer is probably realistically safer, cleaner and healthier to consume than the crap at the supermarket.

It's not like they are trolling back roads with shovels to scrape week old, Unrecognizable road kill.


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[OpenMind4U]

Don't beat yourself up too bad, because some mothers do know and look the other way. My mother would ask if something was wrong, but in the next breath say, 'don't you EVER talk about MY family, they are off limits to you kids'. So, when my brother was about 40, it all came out, and my mother actually had the nerve to say, 'I didn't know, I did the best I could, and things were different then', all the cliches, that excused her behavior. My brother still wet the bed at age 13, and I was seeing a psychologist at 16, but we weren't allowed to say why. She made me stop seeing the psychologist, because she accused me of blaming all of my problems on her, and she wasn't going to have me ruining her reputation. I only went a few times and her name was never brought up. So, we were trained real well...family business stayed private, and that was that. But honestly, I don't see how the Rs couldn't see the signs though. Their kids had wetting and soiling issues, and according to what I read, BR also had issues with smearing feces on the wall, and somebody, smeared feces on JB's chocolates. And these are just the few things we heard, so there's no telling what else went on. I know PR had been real sick, but JR was healthy, so IMO, he anyway, chose to ignore the problems. That's moo, based on my own life experiences, but BR and JB, weren't healthy little kids, and somebody should have noticed. MOO.

Dear dodie20, I'm out of words except to say I'm sorry!!! NO CHILD, regardless of the age, should have such a dramatic experience!!! I'm sure it woud leave the permanent scar for the rest of his/her life!...

Yes, PR was real sick. Ovarian cancer and the follow-up full hysterectomy is a huge shock on woman system, especialy on hormones! I'm sure, chemo done it's damage as well. According to PR, she developed liver problems after chemo. Personnaly, I was suprized to learned that PR NEVER was prescribed hormone-related medication!...But I'm not on medical field and cannot comment that; every person has different medical needs...Just based on my own experience, I was really suprized......And I do understand why (see 'Police Files') during interview with PR, some questions were made in relation to hormones medication and the 'side effects' of it's absense: mood change, panic attack, hyperventilation...

PR was young woman and regardless of what happens in her house on December 25, I'm glad she won the battle with cancer at that time...however, we should always remember that her emotional and psyhological well being - was definitely damaged by it. JMO

 

[Bonnette]

Personnaly, I was suprized to learned that PR NEVER was prescribed hormone-related medication!... PR was young woman and regardless of what happens in her house on December 25, I'm glad she won the battle with cancer at that time...however, we should always remember that her emotional and psyhological well being - was definitely damaged by it. JMO

She was probably not on hormones because her ovarian cancer was estrogen-dependent, meaning that it fed and grew larger on estrogen (like many breast cancers). Mood swings can be dramatic in women who have had their uteri and ovaries removed, without followup suppplemental hormones; this would account for LE's questions about her emotional state postop.

PR's memory was poor, and in my opinion that was because a) she had something to hide and covered up with lawyer-speak ("not that I specifically recall," "to the best of my recollection," etc.), and b) she suffered brain damage secondary to chemo. Midwest Mama pointed out in another thread that post-chemo cognitive loss is referred to among survivors as "chemo brain," a condition in which the brain permanently loses some of its capacity to retain memories for events both before and after treatment.

 

[tragco]

So, when John Ramsey called beauty pageants "very bizarre", did anyone ask him why then he allowed his daughter to participate?

Did anyone ask him why he had a boat named "Miss America" when JonBenet was competing in pageants?

I guess he can get away with anything, huh? In public and in private.

 

[UKGuy]

So, when John Ramsey called beauty pageants "very bizarre", did anyone ask him why then he allowed his daughter to participate?

Did anyone ask him why he had a boat named "Miss America" when JonBenet was competing in pageants?

I guess he can get away with anything, huh? In public and in private.

tragco,
Apparently John also disapproved of JonBenet appearing in a pageant in Las Vegas?

This was JR probably trying to distance himself from the pageant thing?


.

 

[tragco]

tragco,
Apparently John also disapproved of JonBenet appearing in a pageant in Las Vegas?

This was JR probably trying to distance himself from the pageant thing?


.

Yes you are right. I do remember reading that.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes you are right. I do remember reading that.

tragco,
Perfect Murder/Perfect Town, excerpt

The Gingerbread nationals were scheduled for August 1996. Pam offered to take JonBenét to the pageant, since it conflicted with the Ramseys’ family reunion. Patsy said no thanks, Pam told the police. JonBenét had to be with her family, Patsy said. This would be true for any pageants that conflicted with family events. Moreover, when the Royal Miss nationals moved to Las Vegas, Patsy told Pam that John didn’t want his six-year-old daughter exposed to Vegas.

What is all that about?


.

 

[LinasK]

Are you a vegetarian?

No I am not, (and FYI, my child does eat pizza and sugar on occasion, but she regularly eats balanced meals that include veggies and fruits, not ice cream with bananas for dinner!)

 

[Frigga]

My mother did not know, because I did not tell her. Did she ask? Yes. Did she tell me and teach me that no one was supposed to touch me there? Yes. Did she question why I was red at times? Yes. I told her I rubbed it. She assumed I wasn't cleaning very well and helped me clean. She loved me, and I know for a fact she didn't know until I told her when I was 17 because it broke her heart. I didn't tell because the person told me NOT TO, and I was afraid. I was afraid he wouldn't be my friend anymore. I was afraid I would be in trouble. I was afraid I had done something wrong. I was afraid that if I told, he wouldn't love me, and my mother wouldn't love me, either, because I was bad. I was bad, because IT was bad.

Not at all defending the Ramsey's, but every mother out there who has been put into this situation, and babies like me who didn't tell.

This couldn't have been explained better. I am so sorry Tide, for what you went through... the pure and utter he** and trauma, but I am grateful for your courageous explanation of why children don't tell and how mothers don't realize- Bless you~ Frigga