Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval Thread #42

[Feynman]

partial quote

All of Oscar's stories about finding Reeva still breathing or not breathing seem so unnecesarily muddled or perhaps they represent desperate attempts to delay accepting the finality of her death at that moment. So you could chalk it up to wishful thinking on his part (after he suddenly realizes the consequences of his actions and clings to any hope that he can reverse reality) but perhaps when he first picked up Reeva in the toilet cubicle, or as he carried her down the stairs, this action compressed her lungs and he could hear her involuntarily exhale the remaining air in her lungs and mistook it for breathing.

Perhaps Jake18 or others with medical knowledge could comment on this possibility. Remember, this would have been 10-15 minutes after the head shot according to the earwitnesses and the DT's "shots first" version.

Also we have this from the bail affidavit:"A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive." Slumped over but alive; he hasn't picked her up yet. Hmmm ...

Why did the DT persist in this "alive", "breathing" scenario? Maybe because it's in the bail affidavit and they couldn't later back away from it?

 

[CriLondon]

And just to show how some people will defend a killer, no matter what.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/26/facebook-removes-page-glorifying-isla-vista-killer

Or , devastatingly , genuinely share his view .
:scared:

 

[Feynman]

How about like this?

But OP was on his stumps on a tiled floor, a surface that gives that renders him unsteady under normal conditions. So now factor in his supercharged adrenaline-fueled panic and terror state and it looks implausible.

 

[Feynman]

Don't mean to be argumentative:waitasec: but if the distance is only 2m away as you say, then wouldn't the slightest horizontal shift in hand position make a significant change in the trajectories?

I may be reading you wrong, but I would say it's the opposite. Any change in angle at the source of the gunfire will result in a greater trajectory change as the distance to the target increases.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

And just to show how some people will defend a killer, no matter what.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/may/26/facebook-removes-page-glorifying-isla-vista-killer

Wow, there's just the sickest people out there. They also troll fb RIP pages set up by family and friends for a deceased loved one.
These anonymous trolls have no soul.

 

[BatGunKick]

I see a lot of sleuthers here mentioning OP and Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). As a side note - I have been in therapy on and off during my life and was diagnosed with GAD for real (ironically). I remember discussing my father's GF who had NPD, IMO... and my therapist said that NPD is the one thing she will not treat or take on in her capacity as a therapist, reasons being as follows:

1. Any successful therapy has to have the patient willing to change and acknowledge his/her disorder. With NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder) a person is not willing to acknowledge in the slightest that he/she has an issue.
2. Far more crucial she said was that a person with NPD sees himself/herself as more intelligent and 'knowing better' than the therapist and so therapy itself is futile in most cases.

Will be so interested to see what Weskoppies doctors say....!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

But OP was on his stumps on a tiled floor, a surface that gives that renders him unsteady under normal conditions. So now factor in his supercharged adrenaline-fueled panic and terror state and it looks implausible.

Ummm, so you're saying, there is a chance, yes?

 

[Lyra500]

Again, who keeps tigers?!! No real grasp of reality and another "macho" vibe. :naughty: Been wondering if he would be a flight risk to Mozambique - but maybe Canada now? :websleuther:

It has certainly crossed my mind that he must be an increasing flight risk as his case continues to nosedive.

He has also demonstrated just the kind of self importance and entitlement which would enable him to justify doing just that to himself. In his parallel universe it would absolutely be his right to flee, as imprisoning someone of his calibre would be outrageous and unthinkable.

After all - we now know that Reeva brought this all on herself by not coming out of the toilet when told to do so, so why on earth should poor Oscar be held responsible and punished? :facepalm:

 

[BatGunKick]

It has certainly crossed my mind that he must be an increasing flight risk as his case continues to nosedive.

He has also demonstrated just the kind of self importance and entitlement which would enable him to justify doing just that to himself. In his parallel universe it would absolutely be his right to flee, as imprisoning someone of his calibre would be outrageous and unthinkable.

After all - we now know that Reeva brought this all on herself by not coming out of the toilet when told to do so, so why on earth should poor Oscar be held responsible and punished? :facepalm:

:floorlaugh: well put!! I agree completely. In trial at times, OP almost actually said: "Reeva should have called out." :banghead: I sometimes wonder if going to mozambique after the bail hearing was to set up a "worse case scenario" plan B. Hmmm.

 

[Lyra500]

I see a lot of sleuthers here mentioning OP and Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). As a side note - I have been in therapy on and off during my life and was diagnosed with GAD for real (ironically). I remember discussing my father's GF who had NPD, IMO... and my therapist said that NPD is the one thing she will not treat or take on in her capacity as a therapist, reasons being as follows:

1. Any successful therapy has to have the patient willing to change and acknowledge his/her disorder. With NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder) a person is not willing to acknowledge in the slightest that he/she has an issue.
2. Far more crucial she said was that a person with NPD sees himself/herself as more intelligent and 'knowing better' than the therapist and so therapy itself is futile in most cases.

Will be so interested to see what Weskoppies doctors say....!

Well OP has already treated us all to his superior medical knowledge during his trashing of Dr Stipp's actions when he arrived in time to find Reeva's dead body, so I dare say he won't waste any time before he starts setting the psychiatrists and psychoanalysts straight.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

A pic of OP quite steady, kneeling. :waitasec: Did he have on his prosthetic legs and knelt down to shoot? jmo

 

[Emz73]

My understanding was that if it could be shown beyond a reasonable doubt that he intended to kill the person in the toilet cubicle - whoever they were- then it would be murder with the associated 25 year term.

It should make no difference for that murder charge whether he thought it was Reeva or an intruder, he shot with the intention of killing them - murder

The law makes no distinction in this regard - an unknown intruder's life cannot be deemed less valuable or important than Reeva's - one cannot say it is not murder because a perpetrator does not know their victim. Although of course this is all purely theoretical as OP did know his victim.

Happy to be corrected if I have this wrong.

Thanks! So why isn't the PT focusing more on proving OP intended to shoot the intruder? Isn't that easier than proving he knew Reeva was behind the door. Or is it the point of getting the truth? For Reeva etc.
If the PT can't prove OP knew it was Reeva, can they change it to he intended to shot the intruder?

Does any of that make sense?!! I'm tired

 

[BritsKate]

I see a lot of sleuthers here mentioning OP and Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). As a side note - I have been in therapy on and off during my life and was diagnosed with GAD for real (ironically). I remember discussing my father's GF who had NPD, IMO... and my therapist said that NPD is the one thing she will not treat or take on in her capacity as a therapist, reasons being as follows:

1. Any successful therapy has to have the patient willing to change and acknowledge his/her disorder. With NPD (Narcissistic personality disorder) a person is not willing to acknowledge in the slightest that he/she has an issue.
2. Far more crucial she said was that a person with NPD sees himself/herself as more intelligent and 'knowing better' than the therapist and so therapy itself is futile in most cases.

Will be so interested to see what Weskoppies doctors say....!

I can see that. Many people who have a cluster B disorder are comorbid with other disorders too and all cluster B's are resistant to treatment. There's been some successful progress in CBT with treating borderline (imo, they're the cluster B that are much more self-abusive than abusive to others.)

Personally, I think antisocial is worse than NPD. At least with NPD there is a method for their 'madness' - they do what they want, what makes them feel good, and everyone is a means to their end. Narcissists can be cold and callous. Antisocials tend to view people simply as playthings - objects - to be used, manipulated, hurt, and discarded at will. They often are cold and callous. They do whatever they want simply because they feel like it at the time. Antisocial personality disorder is as close a mental health diagnosis to a psychopath as one can get.

As with most disorders there is a wide spectrum. Many very successful people are likely NPD - they'll often step on anyone necessary to rise to the top without impunity or remorse. Manipulation and superficial charm help too. On the flip side, the 'worst' of comorbid narcissistic and antisocial disorders breed the likes of Arthur Shawcross, Ted Bundy, and Ian Brady.

All MOO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[Lyra500]

Thanks! So why isn't the PT focusing more on proving OP intended to shoot the intruder? Isn't that easier than proving he knew Reeva was behind the door. Or is it the point of getting the truth? For Reeva etc.
If the PT can't prove OP knew it was Reeva, can they change it to he intended to shot the intruder?

Does any of that make sense?!! I'm tired

Yes, it does make sense. I think it is to see justice done on behalf of the victim and also because they had several reputable witnesses who came forward saying they had heard a woman screaming - I don't think they would have felt right just ignoring that, so whilst it might have been easier just to go with culpable homicide, or murder of an intruder I think they chose to cover all the bases.

I think a further problem is that several people who were very keen to support OP misinterpreted the charges right at the start. I believe the charge was along the lines of

OP is charged with the deliberate shooting of a person, 'namely Reeva Steenkamp'.

His supporters then started to argue that if the PT did not prove he had known it was Reeva, he could be found not guilty.

I don't believe this was ever the case.

I think the charge meant that OP was charged with the deliberate shooting of whoever was in the toilet - it happened to be Reeva, hence the 'namely Rs' bit, but actually the charge covers either as I understand it.

So if we think back, Nel has done his best to show that OP must have shot Reeva knowingly due to the ear witness testimony about her screams, but he has also taken great pains to get OP to admit that he shot deliberately at the 'intruder' because this would also be murder even if he was believed about not knowing it was Reeva.

Does that make any sense at all? I'm kind of tired too I am afraid.

 

[CriLondon]

I was asking you to compare these two here , and what you think of the rods in bullet hole D , do you think the trajectories are the same ?

Sorry guys , i'll post this again as there's something that really bothers me about these 2 images.
They're both taken INSIDE the toilet. From this side the sequence of bullet holes from left to right is D C B A.

How is it possible , that in the first picture below here, bullet hole trajectory D goes away from trajectory of C (if projected further they would never cross):

View attachment 43803

Whilst in this one D and C do in fact cross?!?!

View attachment 43804

I'd love to know if anyone has an explanation for this, for one must be an untrue trajectory reconstruction/projection of D . A/B/C appear the same to me but D ...no way.

 

[BatGunKick]

I can see that. Many people who have a cluster B disorder are comorbid with other disorders too and all cluster B's are resistant to treatment. There's been some successful progress in CBT with treating borderline (imo, they're the cluster B that are much more self-abusive than abusive to others.)

Personally, I think antisocial is worse than NPD. At least with NPD there is a method for their 'madness' - they do what they want, what makes them feel good, and everyone is a means to their end. Narcissists can be cold and callous. Antisocials tend to view people simply as playthings - objects - to be used, manipulated, hurt, and discarded at will. They often are cold and callous. They do whatever they want simply because they feel like it at the time. Antisocial personality disorder is as close a mental health diagnosis to a psychopath as one can get.

As with most disorders there is a wide spectrum. Many very successful people are likely NPD - they'll often step on anyone necessary to rise to the top without impunity or remorse. Manipulation and superficial charm help too. On the flip side, the 'worst' of comorbid narcissistic and antisocial disorders breed the likes of Arthur Shawcross, Ted Bundy, and Ian Brady.

All MOO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Wow! Thanks so much for this valuable insight, I had no idea regarding antisocial... my father's girlfriend then closer to antisocial IMHO :floorlaugh: just due to manipulation and learned emotion that she seemed to exhibit (?)
In your opinion, where would you put OP on the spectrum?

 

[Viper]

Well OP has already treated us all to his superior medical knowledge during his trashing of Dr Stipp's actions when he arrived in time to find Reeva's dead body, so I dare say he won't waste any time before he starts setting the psychiatrists and psychoanalysts straight.

There is at least one psychologist that adores OP, see attached. But she does not work in a prison psychiatric unit with criminals day in day out.

I did see video of the inside of the facility today. They have a biliards room and comfortable seating outside for casual conversation. Parts of it don't look too bad. I doubt that they have an open bar and fried appetizers or sushi, but I'm sure that they have great medications and some tasty snacks. I wonder if OP packed a special lunch basket with his required foods that keep his GAD in check?

 

[Lyra500]

There is at least one psychologist that adores OP, see attached. But she does not work in a prison psychiatric unit with criminals day in day out.

I did see video of the inside of the facility today. They have a biliards room and comfortable seating outside for casual conversation. Parts of it don't look too bad. I doubt that they have an open bar and fried appetizers or sushi, but I'm sure that they have great medications and some tasty snacks. I wonder if OP packed a special lunch basket with his required foods that keep his GAD in check?

I found the way that woman interacted with OP really quite disturbing and incredibly unprofessional. He really is surrounded by wall to wall enablers isn't he?

The body language is interesting - she is hugging him very tightly - he appears to be 'allowing' her to do so but not really reciprocating in any way.

 

[CriLondon]

I found the way that woman interacted with OP really quite disturbing and incredibly unprofessional. He really is surrounded by wall to wall enablers isn't he?

The body language is interesting - she is hugging him very tightly - he appears to be 'allowing' her to do so but not really reciprocating in any way.

Good spot , head turned towards the right . jmo

 

[BatGunKick]

I'd love to know if anyone has an explanation for this, for one must be an untrue trajectory reconstruction/projection of D . A/B/C appear the same to me but D ...no way.

you're onto something....Something clearly wrong there. Are the sources of the images legit? I also found this one clearly showing cross of two paths D and C from our friend Lisasalinger:

http://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/301.png

???
:goodpost: