MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #17

[TIGER0822]

What a waste of taxpayer dollars, they're never going to get a conviction

"It's better to know the judge than to know the law'. And if Judge Cannone is going to contact the new judge about Yanetti's 'scheduling dates', that concerns me.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Simples.
Ask a question.
What was the jury foreman's role here?
Also, how did they get past the medical expert testimony that showed his body bore no evidence of a vehicle impact?

This is getting too weird.

With how the various Count #2 charges were given with jury instructions, they didn't necessarily have to believe that. KR could be found guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter if the jury thought she created a causal chain resulting in his death, like some jurors could blame her for him getting hypothermia...I think the jury instructions were problematic with Count #2, but they were instructed that she could be found guilty due to creating a causal chain.

 

[kittythehare]

With how the various Count #2 charges were given with jury instructions, they didn't necessarily have to believe that. KR could be found guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter if the jury thought she created a causal chain resulting in his death, like some jurors could blame her for him getting hypothermia...I think the jury instructions were problematic with Count #2, but they were instructed that she could be found guilty due to creating a causal chain.

For that to work the instigator of the invitation is also guilty.
KR drove him there.
But they had been invited.
Causal link is ergo the host or hosts.

 

[fluffypaste]

For that to work the instigator of the invitation is also guilty.
KR drove him there.
But they had been invited.
Causal link is ergo the host or hosts.

I tried looking up the actual manslaughter statute for Massachusetts and my god it is the most vague thing I've ever seen. It doesn't seem to actually even define the crime, it only seems to define the punishment.

 

[outlandishone]

True but important to remember that the KR case is not the first and it is just one.
The people have been most unhappy for a very long time with their police dept.

The division in this town has been going on for many, many years, according to a few of my coworkers who grew up in Canton.

 

[Seattle1]

Karen Read returns to court as judge schedules dates for dismissal hearing, new trial

Karen Read was back in court Monday afternoon for a hearing on how her case will go forward after her trial ended in a mistrial three weeks ago.

www.cbsnews.com

7/22/24​

Karen Read new trial date​

During Monday's brief hearing, Judge Beverly Cannone scheduled arguments for the defense team's motion to dismiss for Aug. 9.

If the case moves forward after that, Cannone set a new jury trial date of Jan. 27, 2025 in Norfolk Superior Court.

[..]

If the prosecution decides to still go forward, what are the trial dates going to be? By Massachusetts law, they have to be, the case has to be re-tried within a year, so by July 1 of 2025."

 

[Linda7NJ]

When was the last time we've ( everyone not just people here on this forum) seen a town ripped so completely apart like this? It's coming from ALL sides. It's not just outside the town pressure, it's coming from the inside too. There's vandalism, intimidation, terrorism, drama, violence, corruption, fear, protests, counter-protests, contentious town hall meetings, more drama, FBI involvement, incitements, Internal Affairs investigations, even more drama, DEA involvement, NETFLIX series, 48hrs Episodes, Dateline Episodes, Court TV Episodes etc, etc, etc!

It's only going to get worse...WAY worse if this goes forward again. It's a modern day Hatfields & McCoys. Another trial and maybe the National Guard is going to have to come in for support. And boy once those boys and girls come to down things really tend to get weird! Roadblocks, armed soldiers in groups roaming the streets, permissions and denials, movements become "monitrored", There's guys on the roofs with binoculars and night-vison scopes, It's not fun believe me! We've had the Guard come in for some help with Hurrican relief and it's not an enjoyable slice of American Pie if you catch my meaning! The CW needs to reconsider.

It’s happened across the country - deliberately stoked & incited for YEARS.

 

[kittythehare]

The division in this town has been going on for many, many years, according to a few of my coworkers who grew up in Canton.

That's the impression I am getting too.

I was quite surprised by the whole supporters thingy. I have no problem with it but I thought it unusual, most of them never knew her.
Then I started looking into other cases in Canton area and I saw there is a legacy of discontent with LE and for good reason.
So there is that.

But there is more too and I am having trouble untangling the knots of it- the origin, I mean.

How to evaluate that?

 

[kittythehare]

Hooray for Justice !!!
As long as it takes, as much as it takes.
Prosecutor's closing arguments lay it all out clearly. They have the evidence and facts.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they do!

jmo moo

actually a mistrial as declared.
The prosecution case did not stand up to close scrutiny.

 

[Soulmagent]

With how the various Count #2 charges were given with jury instructions, they didn't necessarily have to believe that. KR could be found guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter if the jury thought she created a causal chain resulting in his death, like some jurors could blame her for him getting hypothermia...I think the jury instructions were problematic with Count #2, but they were instructed that she could be found guilty due to creating a causal chain.

causal chain ?
I think I need more law codes and examples on the Causal chains.
Like if random girlfriend asked any - him to drive to 7-11 and he did not want to go ,but she kept asking ,and his car goes into the river in route to grab the whatever girlie selfishly wanted . Is this the charge they get ?
Honestly asking .
If you do have a link explaining the legal concept of Causal chain as defined in this case ,I would really appreciate it .
Causal chain.. ,I kinda hope you joking

 

[Linda7NJ]

causal chain ?
I think I need more law codes and examples on the Causal chains.
Like if random girlfriend asked any - him to drive to 7-11 and he did not want to go ,but she kept asking ,and his car goes into the river in route to grab the whatever girlie selfishly wanted . Is this the charge they get ?
Honestly asking .
If you do have a link explaining the legal concept of Causal chain as defined in this case ,I would really appreciate it .
Causal chain.. ,I kinda hope you joking

EXAMPLE - He would not have froze to death but for Karen Read hitting him and knocking him unconscious

 

[Linda7NJ]

Friends, none of which attended his funeral.

Do you have a link for this assertion?

 

[OldCop]

causal chain ?
I think I need more law codes and examples on the Causal chains.
Like if random girlfriend asked any - him to drive to 7-11 and he did not want to go ,but she kept asking ,and his car goes into the river in route to grab the whatever girlie selfishly wanted . Is this the charge they get ?
Honestly asking .
If you do have a link explaining the legal concept of Causal chain as defined in this case ,I would really appreciate it .
Causal chain.. ,I kinda hope you joking

Not MA law per se but here’s a couple I found:

‘Breaking the Chain of Causation’

An important principle in common and criminal law is that a defendant is not liable for a harm if there is a ‘break in the chain of causation’ between the defendant’s wrongful conduct and the harm. For example, if the negligence of a tanker company causes oil to leak onto the street, which is...

talks.ox.ac.uk

Causation In Legal Contexts | The Wilson PC

Causation, in its simplest form, refers to the relationship between cause and effect. It is the principle that an event (the cause) brings about another event

www.thewilsonpc.com

It is often used in negligence cases and/or suits.

 

[Waxahachie1]

My understanding is that DA Morrissey's conduct is being investigated as part of the FBI investigation. The Defense can bring their appeal to an appealant court which will be judged by three judges. MOO

My understanding is that this was defense counsel's spin. In response, both Morrissey and the FBI denied that he or any member of his office was a subject of the FBI investigation.

 

[kittythehare]

My understanding is that this was defense counsel's spin. In response, both Morrissey and the FBI denied that he or any member of his office was a subject of the FBI investigation.

your understanding is incorrect

Letters confirm Karen Read murder case under federal investigation

In the letters between the Norfolk District Attorney’s office and Department of Justice entities, the DA’s office sought to have the inquiry transferred out of Massachusetts — but that request was …

www.bostonherald.com

 

[HarmonyE.]

My understanding is that this was defense counsel's spin. In response, both Morrissey and the FBI denied that he or any member of his office was a subject of the FBI investigation.

The DA has no such knowledge. He was rebuffed multiple times by the Feds when he (pretty desperately, IMO) tried to find out who they were investigating.

No one knows what the FBI is working on so it's false to say they've excluded anyone and they certainly haven't communicated anything. What we do know is that they aren't directly investigating the O'Keefe murder (no jurisdiction, as Morrissey bellowed) although whatever they are working on clearly has some direct relationship to the investigation of the O'Keefe murder. They don't just willy nilly spend tens of thousands of dollars on experts unless they are onto something.

Dollars to Dunks, it's the state police. Whether Morrissey is in the mix as well, we don't know.

 

[kittythehare]

The DA has no such knowledge. He was rebuffed multiple times by the Feds when he (pretty desperately, IMO) tried to find out who they were investigating.

No one knows what the FBI is working on so it's false to say they've excluded anyone and they certainly haven't communicated anything. What we do know is that they aren't directly investigating the O'Keefe murder (no jurisdiction, as Morrissey bellowed) although whatever they are working on clearly has some direct relationship to the investigation of the O'Keefe murder. They don't just willy nilly spend tens of thousands of dollars on experts unless they are onto something.

Dollars to Dunks, it's the state police. Whether Morrissey is in the mix as well, we don't know.

yeppers and here's the letters

https://www.scribd.com/document/700751681/Letters-between-feds-Norfolk-DA-released-in-Karen-Read-case

 

[sds71]

25 Investigates has confirmed with Massachusetts State Police that 3 troopers working with the Norfolk County District Attorney’s office are under internal investigation. All three communicated by text with Trooper Michael Proctor, who sent disparaging messages about Karen Read on his personal cell phone to friends and State Police colleagues. Read was charged in the death of her boyfriend, Boston Police officer John O’Keefe. The first trial ended in a hung jury earlier this month. A new trial date has been scheduled for January 2025.

In an email sent exclusively to investigative reporter Ted Daniel, an MSP spokesperson wrote:

“The Massachusetts State Police confirms that Detective Lieutenant Brian Tully, Lieutenant John Fanning and Sergeant Yuri Bukhenik are each the subject of an active internal affairs investigation. The department respectfully declines further comment in fairness to the integrity of the process and pending investigative outcomes. The Troopers remain on full duty at this time.”

25 Investigates: 2 state police troopers connected to Karen Read case now under investigation

25 Investigates has confirmed with Massachusetts State Police that 2 troopers working with the Norfolk County District Attorney’s office are under internal investigation, a third was investigated and the allegations have been classified as “unfounded.”

www.boston25news.com

 

[SpanishInquisition]

causal chain ?
I think I need more law codes and examples on the Causal chains.
Like if random girlfriend asked any - him to drive to 7-11 and he did not want to go ,but she kept asking ,and his car goes into the river in route to grab the whatever girlie selfishly wanted . Is this the charge they get ?
Honestly asking .
If you do have a link explaining the legal concept of Causal chain as defined in this case ,I would really appreciate it .
Causal chain.. ,I kinda hope you joking

This is an article from 2022 - before she was charged with Murder - and it explains how many of the jurors might have been thinking with Manslaughter:

Evidence indicates Boston police officer’s death likely an accident as girlfriend faces criminal charges

“It remains to be seen whether this is just treated as a tragedy by a jury or whether it is in fact criminalized,” legal analyst Daniel Medwed said.

www.wgbh.org

I do think she may be found guilty of Manslaughter, but not any intent crime if they do actually try Counts 1 and 3 again.

 

[HarmonyE.]

25 Investigates has confirmed with Massachusetts State Police that 3 troopers working with the Norfolk County District Attorney’s office are under internal investigation. All three communicated by text with Trooper Michael Proctor, who sent disparaging messages about Karen Read on his personal cell phone to friends and State Police colleagues. Read was charged in the death of her boyfriend, Boston Police officer John O’Keefe. The first trial ended in a hung jury earlier this month. A new trial date has been scheduled for January 2025.

In an email sent exclusively to investigative reporter Ted Daniel, an MSP spokesperson wrote:

“The Massachusetts State Police confirms that Detective Lieutenant Brian Tully, Lieutenant John Fanning and Sergeant Yuri Bukhenik are each the subject of an active internal affairs investigation. The department respectfully declines further comment in fairness to the integrity of the process and pending investigative outcomes. The Troopers remain on full duty at this time.”

25 Investigates: 2 state police troopers connected to Karen Read case now under investigation

25 Investigates has confirmed with Massachusetts State Police that 2 troopers working with the Norfolk County District Attorney’s office are under internal investigation, a third was investigated and the allegations have been classified as “unfounded.”

www.boston25news.com

Good. These are not good cops. I'm no Turtleboy fan, but I wonder if some of this relates to how they've behaved with regard to the witness intimidation allegations.

This is also possibly very good news for Read's defense. Be funny if the only state trooper standing by the time she's retried is poor Trooper Joe Paul.