Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval Thread #42

[Estelle]

BBM

And he should. Where are the prayers for Reeva and her family?
Hard to believe a Man of God would do such a despicable thing. Guess anyone can be bought these days. Just sickening.
SMDH :what:

I wonder how he would feel if his own daughter had been murdered! (He hasn't probably got a daughter) but the fact that he put this up on twitter makes me suspicious that he wanted his five minutes of fame or was put up to it by Uncle Arnie for PR reasons?

Does Pistorius now feel absolved? That family will try anything IMO. A confession would have been what he should have tried to get. Who paid for his airfare to come over to SA at such a crucial time, I wonder, because although he is an American, he has worked in London for years?

 

[james83]

BBM

And he should. Where are the prayers for Reeva and her family?
Hard to believe a Man of God would do such a despicable thing. Guess anyone can be bought these days. Just sickening.
SMDH :what:

Totally agree, i think it's a disgrace what this man tweeted.
What i will also say is if you look at his twitter you will see tweet after tweet advertising his books for sale, read into that what you will, it say's it all for me, money first moral's second.

 

[BritsKate]

Hi IB...what I remember is that he went to the hospital for blood tests after being detained at the police station for hours. Someone else, many threads ago, said he went to the hospital first, but I don't think so. In any case, he was tested several or many hours since his last drink.

I have always thought that many of his rages are alcohol fueled, but that doesn't explain his constantly yelling at people on the phone so badly that his Olympics roommate had to switch rooms.

A great many people who have a cluster B disorder attempt to self-medicate. In my experience, the absolute tiniest thing can trip their temper. Because they (narcissists) consider themselves superior, above reproach, but also a perpetual victim - they can find offence in almost anything people do. This gets used as a manipulative tactic, in my opinion, to keep those around them 'walking on eggshells'. I believe for some who are NPD the anger they can display is simply a means of controlling and manipulating their environment - intimidating those around them. A true 'narcissistic rage' is something else entirely though.

While narcissists can (appear to) rage at anything, when their facade is threatened - when their ego itself is injured - it tends to unleash a rage where boundaries no longer exist. For some, this will lead to verbally abusing others, walking out on a family or a job, sinking into alcohol or drug usage but for others who are NPD physical violence and homicide are wholly plausible, if not sometimes predictable. Their rage, I believe, often depends not only on the 'wound' to their ego but how much they stand to lose. (Brian Blackwell and Mark Hacking both resorted to murder when their lies became known and threatened to expose them.)
It isn't enough for a narcissist to be good at something - they have to be the best at everything - and will build their lives on deceit and manipulation, if necessary, to achieve just that. They long to be admired, worshipped even.

I think when that admiration is endangered, everyone around them is at risk.

JMO

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[JudgeJudi]

There is at least one psychologist that adores OP, see attached. But she does not work in a prison psychiatric unit with criminals day in day out.

<Respectfully snipped>

Wouldn't it be nice if Uncle Arnold invited her to stay as a houseguest for the next few weeks. I'm sure she'd be only too happy to have after dinner chats with OP. Just think of all the things they could talk about, not to mention the fact that she could soothe him after his tiring days at Weskoppies when he has to think, think, think and try and remember how to answer all those questions. If she can soothe, comfort and coach him enough, maybe Aimee won't have to get him out of the closet if he wakes in a panic.

 

[JudgeJudi]

(I'm back.)

I've been looking all over the net, unsuccessfully, for a terrific article I read a couple of weeks go. It was written by a SA lawyer who was articulate, specific, seemed knowledgeable, and was concise. Since I can't find it, let me try to explain my recollection of it in my best stumbling fashion. It was called the Law of __?___. darn, the name was key to the explanation.

In some countries it may be that if someone intentionally and with premeditation was murdering someone by shooting them, missed, and killed an innocent person instead, the shooter would not/could not be convicted of premeditated murder. They did not pre-meditate killing THAT person. Killing THAT person was an accident.

She said that under SA law, it's not that way. In SA, if someone intentionally and with premeditation is murdering someone by shooting them, misses, and kills an innocent person instead, the shooter WOULD BE guilty of premeditated murder, even though they did not pre-meditate killing the INNOCENT person.

I thought that was fascinating. While I don't know that law well enough to know, in the US where I am, I think in that scenario, the murderer could only be charged with accidental homicide, or whatever it's called.

This woman's point was that, in this case, if OP was intentionally and with premeditation tryin to kill an intruder by shooting them (even if the intruder was a figment of his imagination) and killed Reeva, instead, it's still premeditated murder.
If true, it magnifies the reason why OP doesn't want to admit in any way, shape or form that he shot at "the intruder" with intention and forethought, instead skating around in such a slippery manner that it defies even the whiff of truth.

Welcome back Colonel. I too have been looking for a few things, and doesn't it drive you nuts. Many threads ago I posted "Criminal law of South Africa", part of which I've quoted below. Is this what you were looking for?

"What if you shoot the ‘wrong’ person?
Posted: February 28, 2013 in Education
Tags: criminal law, culpable homicide, murder, Pistorius

It doesn’t matter if an accused intended to kill one person (say, Bill), but killed another instead (say, Jake) – at least not in the sense that the identity of the victim matters. Thus, and accused who intends to kill a particular human body, and kills that human body, incurs liability for murder (assuming capacity and unlawfulness). This we call an inessential error. However, in our law, if I intend to kill one human form, and miss, we accept that the bullet may easily come to rest in a wall, a tree, or fall harmlessly to the ground somewhere. It could also, of course, strike another person – and this is where things get interesting. This is known in SA law as a scenario of aberatio ictus (going astray of the blow). The problem is that it is easy to confuse this later scenario, where one misses one’s target, with the former (the inessential error). The fundamental difference is that in the first scenario of the inessential error you kill the human being (the body) you intend to kill. In the latter (aberatio ictus) you kill a body you may not intend to kill. Our law used to take the view that this was no defence – you still killed a human being. But we have now shifted to the position that recognises that, if you miss your target (although you are liable for attempted murder in respect of your intended victim), whether you are liable for murder, if the bullet happens to strike another person and kill him/her, must depend on whether you had intention (in law, at least foresight) of this prospect.

Of course, the Pistorius defence falls into the category of inessential errors. Pistorius struck and killed the human being that he intended to kill – whoever was behind the door. What remains in question though – which is his defence, is whether he intended to unlawfully kill the person behind the door. This is the subject of the post “The Pistorius Defence”.

http://criminallawza.net/2013/02/28/what-if-you-shoot-the-wrong-person/

 

[Emz73]

I wonder how he would feel if his own daughter had been murdered! (He hasn't probably got a daughter) but the fact that he put this up on twitter makes me suspicious that he wanted his five minutes of fame or was put up to it by Uncle Arnie for PR reasons?

Does Pistorius now feel absolved? That family will try anything IMO. A confession would have been what he should have tried to get. Who paid for his airfare to come over to SA at such a crucial time, I wonder, because although he is an American, he has worked in London for years?

It seems like he's on some sort of tour, he's now in London for 6 weeks. His tweet about Oscar was sandwiched in between tweets selling his books.
The whole lot of them are an embarrassment! Carl has been putting up inspirational quotes up about "heros" and how people should listen as the truth has been spoken. That family live in la la land!!! :banghead:

 

[jay-jay]

It seems like he's on some sort of tour, he's now in London for 6 weeks. His tweet about Oscar was sandwiched in between tweets selling his books.
The whole lot of them are an embarrassment! Carl has been putting up inspirational quotes up about "heros" and how people should listen as the truth has been spoken. That family live in la la land!!! :banghead:

I was reading some of those the other day, amazing isn't it .. https://twitter.com/carlpistorius

 

[JudgeJudi]

<Respectfully snipped>

American pastor Robert Tillman Kendall posted a photograph of himself and Pistorius on Twitter and tweeted: “Oscar Pistorius gave me lunch in his home today in Pretoria, S Africa. Please, please do pray for him.”

IMO OP does not need prayers. Reeva's family need prayers hoping that OP will go to jail for 25 years! I pray for justice! All the prayers in the world will not save Oscar Pistorius from his fate now.

What do you think about suspected criminals hiding behind and using religion? What hypocrites they are. I guess this was a PR stunt organised by Uncle Arnie.

Another thing in common with Jodi Arias, now convicted of premeditated murder with aggravation. I have to add that while we've been having this break I've watched her trial in its entirety and I cried many, many times. I think OP is evil, but words fail me regarding her - she's a monster. I still can't get over what she did to Travis, the planning, the lies and what she's done to his poor family.

 

[Cherwell]

Interesting way to put it when the actual speed would have sufficed. If the speed limit was 80 mph, for example, the actual speed would have been 100 mph. And it's highly unlikely that the limit was as high as 80. But if it was, there's good reason. pfft jmo

I disagree, I think it's an economical way of telling us he was speeding and by how much. Knowing the speed without the speed limit only gives a partial picture.

Speed limit 120 kph on a freeway = 75 mph

So he was driving at about 93 mph

http://www.southafrica.info/travel/advice/driving.htm

 

[Hoosen_Fenger]

Totally agree, i think it's a disgrace what this man tweeted.
What i will also say is if you look at his twitter you will see tweet after tweet advertising his books for sale, read into that what you will, it say's it all for me, money first moral's second.

I could not agree more.

People can have their Faith, but they should keep it to themselves. As for involving himself with OP, Robert Tillman Kendall has demonstrated a couple of things.

Firstly, that there are still people that hide behind Religion to excuse their motives. (Selling books in his case.)

Secondly, if people thought that the Pistorius family were not truly desperate to paint OP in some kind of positive light, regardless of the feelings of anyone else he may have harmed, then look no further.

Utterly shameless.

That these two human beings would choose to have lunch together says more about them, than their classlessness could ever make them realise.

 

[Cherwell]

American pastor Robert Tillman Kendall posted a photograph of himself and Pistorius on Twitter and tweeted: “Oscar Pistorius gave me lunch in his home today in Pretoria, S Africa. Please, please do pray for him.”

I'm praying for him.

I'm praying that he goes to prison for a very long time.

 

[Greater Than]

Nel: As a Christian, you will not lie?

OP: I will try not to lie milady.

Religion aside, since when is it okay to "try" not to lie under oath?

 

[Emz73]

I think this one from prof James Grant is new. All about SA law.

http://wp.me/p3efQr-2U

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Hello all. I'm going to jump around a bit, but it's quicker than separate posts...

1. Came a cross a South African reporter today on twitter, who had his bio reading "I'm not interested in your Oscar Pistorius theories." Boggles my mind that any reporter can have a blanket ban on specific debate. Anyhoooo, here's toasting to us mere web sleuths who adhere to the notion: &#8220;All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings.&#8221; - Denis Diderot

2. Anyone else find the blood pooling on the toilet floor in front of the toilet odd? I know that experts stated she was slumped on the toilet seat itself, but to me for so much blood to pool on the floor (and no disturbance of the magazine rack), surely it is more plausible that she fell to the floor and lay there bleeding. OP himself said:&#8220;I sat over Reeva and I cried" as well as "When I picked her up my hand touched her head" ... Crying over someone, means they are lower than you.
? Only OP gives the version she was sitting on the magazine rack, slumped with her head on her arm resting on the toilet seat (possibly to make out like she went to the toilet as usual). To me it just seems a very odd position to fall into. Also, in my suspicions of the door being unlocked at the time of the shooting, he would surely have gone in and checked if she was breathing, and if she had managed to call the police... so if she was slumped against the toilet seat in a sitting position, checking her vitals would have tipped her head back, causing blood into the back area of the toilet on the right hand side, and into the bowl. not so much in the front on the floor? (I may be stretching too far on this). Input welcome.

3. Just an anecdote regarding all the talk of OP hugging the therapist. Is it not his aunt Lois? I had a therapist who hugged me after each session - it was VERY unprofessional, and I switched! :floorlaugh: OP's body language is very detached - even sometimes with Aimee. Which brings me to this picture - sure looks like she would do anything for him, hide a watch, phone...

I think: psychologist left, then auntie, then sister.
At the pic, we already saw before, the lady with lightly grayer hair had put her arm/hand on his neck consoling poor little OP (someone thought, it was auntie).

Further I think: Narcissists are mostly detached in body language because

1. they expect a certain "tribute"
2. they don't want to fail at a physical approach
3. they can't afford to be rejected

I am knowing someone with much of the characteristics of a narcissist and the person behaves like this. Always the fault of the partner, because he has taken the initiative (IF taken ).

BTW: I like your previous theory (your blog)!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm praying for him.

I'm praying that he goes to prison for a very long time.

Me thinks, you misunderstood the content of prayer only a little bit, haha.

 

[BatGunKick]

I think: psychologist left, then auntie, then sister.
At the pic, we already saw before, the lady with lightly grayer hair had put her arm/hand on his neck consoling poor little OP (someone thought, it was auntie).

Further I think: Narcissists are mostly detached in body language because

1. they expect a certain "tribute"
2. they don't want to fail at a physical approach
3. they can't afford to be rejected

I am knowing someone with much of the characteristics of a narcissist and the person behaves like this. Always the fault of the partner, because he has taken the initiative (IF taken ).

BTW: I like your previous theory (your blog)!

ooops, okaaaay ahhhh, they look similar....that would explain it thanks! I have my moments where I get mixed up. :blushing: Narcissist-types seem to be hard to miss because it's all about them... and all this talk of calls for prayer for Oscar, makes me sick - let's all remember Oscar himself on the stand mentioned something along the lines of "Reeva was a Christian, she prayed for me, for me to do well in competitions, for me not to have injuries..." Can he be more self-indulgent?!

<modsnip>I wake up in the night worried that OP will escape the charges. Worries me that witnesses may be questioning themselves and are seen to be conflicting. Judge Masipa may think OP's version is not plausible (that is enough?), but surely first prize is if the state offers a version that fits testimony from witnesses? I really hope that Nel and the State have had this in mind all along and perhaps they still will. When I posted the theory online I thought perhaps social media could spread the idea of the crack happening at the end after the shots, and the lining up of testimony... but most read it, and agree wholeheartedly, but sadly that's where it ends. People have been very vocal on facebook and twitter, agreeing that they think this is how it happened, but they don't seem to see THEY can make a difference by telling others, or calling for action. It's just one of those things I guess, I did e-mail Advocate Nel though back in April (BLUSH), but I'm still not sleeping well at night. I guess with some things, it's hard to let go... 99% sure Nel has it covered - after all he did ask Vermeulen about that specific crack in D, so fingers crossed.

 

[cottonweaver]

[
Is he hyperactive? I used to wonder if he might have also have ADHD as many famous athletes do such as Michael Phelps, the US swimmer!

Agree with Estelle that there is evidence from the various journalists' features on Oscar, that he appears to be hyperactive. Another poster linked to these features in a post on the preceding pages.

But what do the Websleuthers think about the likelihood of a diagnosis of OCD instead of GAD?
It has been mentioned as one of a cluster of related disorders eg. Psyc Ivan De Kerk's comments - de Klerk has made some unflattering statements about OP during his time on the stand.
"There is what is known as differential diagnosis. With this comes several similar disorders which are grouped together.

"These include obsessive compulsive disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder. Those evaluating Pistorius will look to see if what he has meets the generalised anxiety disorder criteria or if the diagnosis of OCD or PTSD fits better"
http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes/2014/05/20/panel-will-peer-into-the-mind-of-oscar

Best read on this- if you haven't already seen it is a 2012 bio on OP where he details hie love of control and mentions OCD himself
http://alisonkervin.co.uk/articles/2012/5/26/oscar-pistorius-born-to-run.html

Regardless of the OCD question, the bio ends with OP saying the following:
"When I ask him what he wants most in the world, he goes silent for a while – the first pause of our interview. Then: “I’d like to have a career without regrets.” There’s a pause again and he corrects himself. “No, what I really mean is that I’d like a life without regrets. I’d like a life in which I made the most of my God-given talents and died without regrets.” :facepalm:

 

[james83]

ooops, okaaaay ahhhh, they look similar....that would explain it thanks! I have my moments where I get mixed up. :blushing: Narcissist-types seem to be hard to miss because it's all about them... and all this talk of calls for prayer for Oscar, makes me sick - let's all remember Oscar himself on the stand mentioned something along the lines of "Reeva was a Christian, she prayed for me, for me to do well in competitions, for me not to have injuries..." Can he be more self-indulgent?!

The blog: So glad you like it, thank you - it's had 4000 views so far, but slowing down. I wake up in the night worried that OP will escape the charges. Worries me that witnesses may be questioning themselves and are seen to be conflicting. Judge Masipa may think OP's version is not plausible (that is enough?), but surely first prize is if the state offers a version that fits testimony from witnesses? I really hope that Nel and the State have had this in mind all along and perhaps they still will. When I posted the theory online I thought perhaps social media could spread the idea of the crack happening at the end after the shots, and the lining up of testimony... but most read it, and agree wholeheartedly, but sadly that's where it ends. People have been very vocal on facebook and twitter, agreeing that they think this is how it happened, but they don't seem to see THEY can make a difference by telling others, or calling for action. It's just one of those things I guess, I did e-mail Advocate Nel though back in April (BLUSH), but I'm still not sleeping well at night. I guess with some things, it's hard to let go... 99% sure Nel has it covered - after all he did ask Vermeulen about that specific crack in D, so fingers crossed.

I'm still keeping faith with this tweet from a couple of months back

Mandy Wiener &#8207;@MandyWiener Mar 25
Nel's style is to build his case methodically. We won't necessarily see the full picture until he ties it all together in closing argument.

 

[BatGunKick]

I'm still keeping faith with this tweet from a couple of months back

Mandy Wiener &#8207;@MandyWiener Mar 25
Nel's style is to build his case methodically. We won't necessarily see the full picture until he ties it all together in closing argument.

James, thank you for this - stomach did a little excited flip flop at the thought. I may sleep soundly tonight :loveyou:

 

[JudgeJudi]

<Respectfully snipped>

In fact, if someone has not done it already, that might possibly be another interesting timeline. Obviously we can't know every incident as things have been covered up on his behalf, but possibly starting from the boat incident it might be good to get a chronological list of the incidents we do know about and possibly look to identify any potential causative factors. The time lapse between incidents might also be interesting as it appears things were happening more frequently.

Just a thought

Okay Lyra, this is the best I could come up with:

Sept 2008
At Beijing Paralympics he didn’t like the running vest and shorts supplied to him and wanted to go on the air and complain.

His roommate moved because OP was always shouting at people on the phone.

21 February 2009
Boating accident

10 March 2009
An accident happened on the N4 highway when a female friend of his knocked over and killed a pedestrian. OP prohibited press photographers from taking pictures of the scene. When they asked why he was quoted as saying “Because I am Oscar Pistorius”.

12 September 2009
Arrested for assault after slamming a door so hard that the top of it shattered and flying pieces injured a woman’s leg after he chased her from his house where he was having a party. The matter settled out of court.

28 October 2011
Incident at a concert where he was physically and verbally abusive to two women. He was very drunk.

May 2012
During workouts at the gym prior to the Olympics his swearing astonished mothers and children also using the gym.

2 September 2012
Suffered a shock loss in the final of the Paralympic 200m and lashed out at Alan Oliveira who beat him to the gold. He apologized the day after, not for what he said, but for the timing of it at the track right after the race in front of hordes of media.

September 2012
He was enraged upon returning home from London 2012 Olympics to discover that his girlfriend, Sam Taylor, had allegedly cheated on him. He approached Van der Burgh and swore at him about his relationship with Sam. At the time, Van der Burgh was sitting with numerous businessmen and was embarrassed by what happened. He then laid a charge of intimidation against OP.

The animosity escalated and Van der Burgh received numerous SMSes threatening him. Mark Batchelor heard about what had happened and began defending Van der Burgh. OP and Batchelor exchanged threats via SMS during which OP is alleged to have told Batchelor that he would break his legs.

September 2012
Fired his pistol out of a car’s open sunroof after a heated argument with a police officer.

January 2013
Fired a gun under a table in Tasha’s Restaurant.

April 2013
On his first public outing since bail he attended the Kitchen Bar Restaurant, flirted with several women and inappropriately patted a friend’s girlfriend on the bottom.

Several years prior to 2013
Drove over a dog that darted in front of his car, breaking its back. He got out of his car and shot it in the head without speaking to the owner who was shouting and screaming, got in his car and drove off.

Feel free to delete any you're not interested in.