KS KS - Adam Herrman, 11, Towanda, 1999

[lne1970]

:waitasec:

So where you are, you are being denied the right to adopt vs less qualified heterosexuals-is that what you are saying?
I don't think Kansas opted to bypass a loving gay couple who wanted to adopt this child and willfully gave him to a pair of sickos. He was fostered to them and then adopted. My SIL was one of 5, 4 of whom were fostered first and then adopted including herself....it is common.

Don't mean to venture off-topic, and I don't know how to get both quotes in here, but yes like SuziQ stated, it was just about the country in general.....

There are several states that do allow it, some like Florida has banned it, however that's in legal limbo. Many states will write a clause that bans anyone who is "co-habitating outside of a valid marriage", which could be straight or gay, but many feel it's a way to prohibit gay couples from adopting. Also, not just talking about legally, but just society's views in general. Much of the public would vote to ban it if given the choice regardless of the couple's propensity to provide a healthy environment.

BTW - just to clarify - I am not looking to adopt so I haven't personally been down this path, so I wasn't trying to plea my own case, but just the general issue.

 

[STEADFAST]

The attorney in the above link video claims it's medically documented that Adam was schizophrenic. Funny how no one else, including his older brother mentioned that was an issue. In fact, everyone has stated they don't get why Adam was treated so differently.

Plus, if he WAS schizophrenic (which I doubt), it would only make it that much worse that they let him wander away with only a cursory search (which I also doubt.) The attorney is acting as if it's some kind of mitigating factor that Adam was psychologically impaired! How is that supposed to excuse the adoptive parents???:furious:

 

[Chezhire]

This is outrageous!!

Eisenbise, attorney for the adoptive parents, said re the adoptive parents:

"They assumed that he was somewhere -- either a homeless person or back with members of his family," Eisenbise said.
"He had never contacted them. They assumed that he was OK."
Court records show that as late as 2003 -- about four years after Adam might have gone missing -- his adoptive parents listed him in their divorce case, later dismissed."
http://www.kansas.com/196/story/651004.html

Such a load of BS. They were in contact with the bio family and then asked them to stop calling.

Steadfast - ITA - it's clear that the child's biological sister, Tiffany Broadfoot, had at the very least been allowed to attend one birthday party when Adam was around six or seven years old.
See here: http://news.aol.com/article/hunt-begins-for-boy-missing-10-years/294287
I'd bet that the Herrmans know exactly what happened to little Adam. :furious:

 

[Chezhire]

JANEINOZ
Thank you for your explanation, however, I have carefully read every single word in this thread. The adoption system here in KS in NOT any worse than anywhere else. IN FACT, I don't believe that there is any reference to the fact that this adoption was arranged in KS. Both of the birth parents are from out of state and the adoption could have been arranged in either of those states. There are hundreds of thousands of adoptive parents who are wonderful and loving people who have given every single thing that they can in order to adopt children and provide them with good homes. Just as there are biological parents who do horrible things to their children, there are a few foster parents and adoptive parents who cause harm. This does not mean that all are bad. I totally agree that abused children often do not get the attention that is needed in many states.
You DO definitely imply that KS has a problem with taking children from homes: here are your exact words "As i said there are some really HUGE Issues of ripping children from their biological families and shoving them in foster care / adopting them out in Kansas". This information is completely unfounded and false in every way. A few complaints on some blog somewhere do not constitute the truth.

You know, I've read it all, too, and I have to say that I certainly didn't interpret any of JaneInOz's comments as being directed solely at Kansas,
and I was surprised to see your later, very defensive posts. :waitasec:
In any event, ITA with what JaneInOz wrote, too.

 

[Faythe13]

You know I suppose it all comes down to the fact that it doesn't matter if Adam's parents were biological or adoptive, the point is that he's missing. Most likely no longer in this world.

So...the questions I have are, Who saw what? What was done about it? Where is Adam?

I feel so badly for his biological sister. I wonder about the younger siblings that were taking and adopted by the same family as well. An 11 year old, running away...right. Because we all know how easy it would be for him to live on the streets or get a job to support himself. Uh huh.

Someone else had a good point. Obviously adoptive mom KNEW he wasn't with the biological family, when she lied that Adam was about to take his driving test.

I hope justice is served in the end.

 

[Chezhire]

SNIPPED: "... The reasons the children were returned are going to be interesting to hear. And if children were taken away for care related reasons, then I suppose it will be even more interesting to hear why Adam was not protected. . . .

I hope that we don't hear that the records of these other children being "returned" to state custody are no longer available due to some paperwork reduction act/destruction of same/etc., as the records were such-and-such years old. :furious:

 

[Tonia]

I admit i have not read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been posted already.

The boy's biological father, Irvin Groeninger II, also expressed regret. The Indiana trucker was divorced when authorities took Adam and his siblings from their mother's home after alleged abuse. He says he was cleared of any wrongdoing and tried to get custody of his children, but child welfare officials terminated his parental rights.
"Basically, I have lost him twice," Groeninger said.
The boy — whom he knows only by his birth name of Irvin Groeninger III — was 18 months old when Groeninger last saw him. He had hoped his son would try to contact him when he was old enough to search for his biological family.
He says he wishes he could tell his son: "I love him and I wish I had fought harder back then to get him and keep him in my custody."


Linda Bush, a former sister-in-law of Valerie Herrman, remembered Adam as a timid little boy. She has not seen him since he was at least 6 years old.
"He wasn't boisterous, running around making a lot of noise like other children. And he stared a lot. That was strange," Bush said. "He gave me the creeps sometimes because he would stare. But it was nothing to hate him for."
Bush said she remembered Valerie Herrman telling the boy he was stupid.
"It was the tone. It was constant. She constantly berated him and put him down, a hateful tone," Bush said. "It was constant and we couldn't figure out what that boy had ever done to make her hate him like that."

Bush said the Herrmans told other family members that they had turned Adam back to the Department of Social and Rehabilitative Services. She said she had no reason to believe otherwise because the couple had other foster children who went back to state custody.
"They had turned other children back, whether voluntary or mandated," Bush said. "Nobody had any reason to disbelieve. Who would think of something so heinous happening? Nobody did."

 

[believe09]

The attorney in the above link video claims it's medically documented that Adam was schizophrenic. Funny how no one else, including his older brother mentioned that was an issue. In fact, everyone has stated they don't get why Adam was treated so differently.

Huh; which means that they were medicating him as well, I infer. I would like to see the protocols for treatment of schizophrenia that recommend chaining the individual to a tub provided that was an accurate description. So really, the attorney is doing this family no favors by CONTINUING to speak about all of the reasons it is Adams fault that he disappeared. IMO.

Adam, wherever you are now, I hope it is a peaceful and beautiful place....

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/37206494.html

(snip)
The investigation Wednesday is focused on some property in the north part of Sedgwick County. Authorities obtained a search warrant for a home on 109th St. W. They will begin their search at 1 p.m.
The home being searched is where the Herrmans lived after they moved from Towanda. Towanda is where Adam went missing in 1999.

 

[SuziQ]

Plus, if he WAS schizophrenic (which I doubt), it would only make it that much worse that they let him wander away with only a cursory search (which I also doubt.) The attorney is acting as if it's some kind of mitigating factor that Adam was psychologically impaired! How is that supposed to excuse the adoptive parents???:furious:

ITA, they should have been more worried, not less. At best these people were happy he ran away and didn't want him back, at worst they did something to him and knew he wasn't coming back. Either one of those is a hideous prospect no matter how their attorney spins this.

 

[SuziQ]

Huh; which means that they were medicating him as well, I infer. I would like to see the protocols for treatment of schizophrenia that recommend chaining the individual to a tub provided that was an accurate description. So really, the attorney is doing this family no favors by CONTINUING to speak about all of the reasons it is Adams fault that he disappeared. IMO.

Adam, wherever you are now, I hope it is a peaceful and beautiful place....

ITA, no matter what these parents are still guilty of abuse and neglect.

 

[The_Woof]

http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=9627366&nav=menu486_2_3

Age progression

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28532417/

The e-mail was sent by Crystal Herrman, verified by those who know her as the biological daughter of Doug and Valerie Herrman.
In her letter, Crystal hints that she and her brother may have been the ones who called authorities last month.
The call began the search for her long lost adopted brother. (more at link)

 

[SuziQ]

http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=9628429&nav=menu486_2_5

(snip)
Bush is just one of several family members, including Valerie Herrman's own son, who blames Valerie. Bush also talks of abuse-stories of Adam being locked in the bathroom and forced to sleep there. He says the abuse did not go unreported. He also has a theory about what happened to Adam. (more at link)

 

[JaneInOz]

You know, I've read it all, too, and I have to say that I certainly didn't interpret any of JaneInOz's comments as being directed solely at Kansas,
and I was surprised to see your later, very defensive posts. :waitasec:
In any event, ITA with what JaneInOz wrote, too.

Thank you Kindly


In regards to Adam being Schizophrenic well all I am going to say is
Yup lets bring out the Pyscho Adopted Kid excuse :furious:

It was the kids fault
He was a nutter
ALL ADOPTED KIDS ARE dont ya know

do you know how often I see this ? hear this ? live this ? (not personally - no one says that about me LOL)

It makes me :furious:

HOW DARE THEY.

And I disagree it DOES MATTER that this is an adopted child. Of course it would matter if it was a biological child as well.

But it just goes to prove that adopted/fostered kids are a dime a dozen lost in the system (AT TIMES)
As is Proof in this case.

In reference to my point of having more of a responsiblity to an adopted child I stand by that.
I do not believe you should treat your adopted child and Biological child any different OF COURSE NOT. But I do believe that when taking over the life and responsibility of another's child to then be entrusted to your care for life (for whatever reason) you still have More of a responsibility on your shoulders..
Because you chose to take on this child......It was a choice...you picked this child...

Do you see where I am at ?

If not that is fine. Not everyone agrees on everything...

I just want to make it categorically clear as there seems to be some confusion from a few - i am NOT Anti Adoption. I do not have an anti adoption blog or a Hate Filled Blog

I have a blog that talks about stuff exactly Like what is going on here with Adams case (and worse)
I am anti the SYSTEM.
I am anti the Corporation of Adoption...

I am Anti - children like this - being *lost* in the system....being chained up to bathtubs

Sadly Adopted children are being more and more labeled with things like *attachment disorder* and *RAD* and being shoved on drugs , bound in so called *therapy* and yeah tied up to Bathtubs...

adopted children CAN and DO act out, they have been seperated from their mother - it is an internal reaction...They can also be withdrawn at times - or they can be a bit of both..
Adam may have possibly been one or either or both, but love and support goes a long way to helping rather than tying up to a bathtub or holding therapy or drugs..
In many cases unfortunately the adoptive mother can be affronted that the child is not *bonding* with her as they should and will place the blame at the childs door - he/she has this problem or that issue - and so the vicious cycle begins.. Sadly

There is a great deal of studies on this......but I will leave it there....

I just KNOW that these people killed Adam (in my heart)

 

[JaneInOz]

I have just read the article from Adams adoptive mother of Abuse DENIAL

What a LOAD of CR*P

http://www.kansas.com/news/crime-courts/story/654039.html

ALL SNIPPED BITS from the article

Adam Herrman's adoptive mother Tuesday denied allegations by relatives who say they saw her abuse the boy over the years before he disappeared.

"They make it sound like I tortured him, but I loved him," Valerie Herrman said in an interview with The Eagle.

Of course you did, you loved him enough to not report him missing EVER (she has never reported him missing)

She said Adam ran away from their Towanda home nearly 10 years ago when he was 11, after she spanked him with a belt. She was upset but can't remember why, she said.

Because she loved him so much

Herrman said she and her husband, Doug, never reported Adam missing because they feared the spanking would lead authorities to take Adam and his two younger siblings away. They told relatives that Adam, whom the couple had adopted when he was a little over 2, had gone back to state custody.

More like the ABUSE They were dishing out...

The Herrmans said they had lived a lie and regret it.

Of course they do THEY GOT CAUGHT OUT

For the same reason, they continued to accept state adoption subsidy payments for Adam until his 18th birthday, Valerie Herrman said. She said she sent back a check she received after his 18th birthday.

"I feel very guilty about stealing that money," she said tearfully.

"It was $700 a month. I kept hoping he was going to come back, though."

As I said they were getting money. And of course she feels guilty You got caught out. I hope they make her pay back every cent.

The 52-year-old woman, who now lives in Derby, said she regrets lying to relatives for almost a decade by saying Adam was returned to state custody. "But I didn't know anything else to do," she said.

Again of course she does, shes been busted, How about reporting him MISSING - oh thats right that WOULD have drawn attention to what she's done to him AND With him..

Valerie Herrman said that at times she has lain awake, crying and wondering and worrying about what happened to her oldest adoptive son.

More like when the law is gonna catch up with her

She denied allegations, from her sister and two biological children that she punched and kicked Adam over the years, beat him with a belt buckle and kept him chained to the bathtub faucet in the home.

She also denied that she withheld food from Adam. Sometimes, she said, he would overeat to the point of getting sick.

She said that at times she kept Adam locked in the bathroom at night under the advice of a psychiatrist after they found two knives under Adam's pillow when he was about 8, when they lived in Derby.

"He said he was going to kill us," she said.

Of course she denies it, and of course her sister and her BIOLOGICAL Children are just making it all up...
And yes all good Psychiatrists tell parents to lock your child in the bathroom and give them the bath as a bed Not try removing all knives and taking it in turns staying up and watching over the child, or getting him help (if it was at all true - which I do not believe)

They turned around the bathroom doorknob so it could be locked from the outside, she said.

"He slept in the bathtub," she said, with a sleeping bag, sheet, pillow and blanket. He was locked in only at night, and it was for his and their protection, she said.

"There was no chains, no handcuffs."

Yes well thats a good way to lock him in...and of course it was for her protection

Asked how long he was kept in the bathroom at night, she said it occurred possibly over a two- to three-month period, although she couldn't remember exactly how long.

Because it was probably A LOT MORE THAN THAT:furious:

The Herrmans said Adam was their most difficult child. "But that sure as heck doesn't mean that we loved him any less," Doug Herrman said.

Valerie Herrman said they provided Adam a bicycle, Rollerblades, Nintendo and art supplies. "He loved to draw," she said.

Of course you did, hence the bathtub WITH A PILLOW AND SLEEPING BAG....Oooh what a lucky boy I do hope he was grateful !

Psychiatrists said Adam was either bipolar or schizophrenic or suffering from attachment disorder, they said.

BINGO and there we have that magical word......And where are these Written psychiatrists reports ??? does she think maybe he had any of these things because of her Treatment of him ????

At times, the Herrmans were foster parents for several of Adam's siblings. He was born in Wichita on June 8, 1987, and was adopted by the Herrmans a couple of years later. They also adopted two of his younger siblings.

The Herrmans have two biological children who are older than Adam, but Valerie Herrman said she was not able to have any more biological children. They wanted a large family, Doug Herrman said. They said they also wanted to keep Adam and his biological siblings together.

At one point when Adam was younger, around 1990 or 1991, the Herrmans said they lost their foster care license after an investigation, which they declined to discuss in detail. They said authorities removed one of Adam's younger sisters, then about 2, but said she was not removed because of child abuse

They said they had bonded with the girl and hoped to adopt her also and were devastated that she was taken from them.

Valerie Herrman said that she remembers the girl trying to cling to her as authorities took her away. "I still think about that child," she said.

.

Hmmmmm Removed from their care.......and we have her word (such a truthful word that it is ) that it wasnt for abuse ...
Makes you wonder if she didn't resent that Adam was not removed and his sister was ???

Around 1996, she said, she spanked Adam with a belt, and his psychological counselor saw bruises and called police. "That's her job. I don't hold that against anybody," she said.

"I hated myself for it," she said of the spanking. She said she had been spanked with a belt as a child and vowed she would not do that to her children.

Of course she did , and thats why she went on to DO IT AGAIN

Valerie Herrman said: "After that, I was too scared to spank him. He hardly ever got a spanking after that.

HE HARDLY EVER got a spanking - but that means he got some.....

During the first week of May 1999, possibly on the weekend, she said, she spanked Adam with a belt one afternoon.

"He got mad, and he said he's going to run away," Doug Herrman said. "He ran out the front door."

Wouldn't that DATE and DAY be etched in your brain forever....................

Adam had run away several times before, once when he was around 8 while they were camping in Council Grove, Valerie Herrman said. They said they found him at a convenience store.

Asked why he ran away, Valerie Herrman said, "I think it was for attention."

Of course it was - it had NOTHING To do with her belting's and making him sleep in a bathtub

The next morning, he said, the whole family drove around, looking for Adam. They looked again on a second day, including along a nearby creek or river.

Really ? then why did the children say that they were told Adam had gone back to the State ?

They said they also feared getting into trouble if they contacted police a few days after Adam disappeared.

"Then," Valerie said, "after two weeks, I was going to call, picked up the phone" -- to report Adam missing. But she said she put the phone down. "All I could think about was losing more kids," she said.

"We never stopped praying for him.

Of course they did , they were cr@pping themselves ....From the LE and God

"People think I just went on with my life. I didn't."

Doug Herrman added: "We have never forgot him."

Of course not you've had his $700 a month coming in to keep reminding you

Asked if they know what happened to Adam, Doug said, "I think he's out there.

So do I under a mound of dirt


:furious::furious::furious:

 

[believe09]

I predict:

• the state will never have received a returned check from these people.
• the psychiatrist, if there was one, never ever saw this child alone without one of these people and never ever saw this child more than a few times.
• that there are many confirmations of the stories that have already been told: Adam was noticeably bruised to the point that the police were called, and he was confined to the bathtub/bathroom. This coupled with the fraud and refusal to "call him in missing" should get them into jail right quick.

I suspect:
LE is waiting for a confession. These parents already know what was found under the concrete-not enough to get them to admit they killed him, but enough to get them shooting off their mouths regarding how they brutalized him. Did they find the chain and handcuffs? Clothing???

 

[STEADFAST]

I have just read the article from Adams adoptive mother of Abuse DENIAL

What a LOAD of CR*P

http://www.kansas.com/news/crime-courts/story/654039.html

ALL SNIPPED BITS from the article


Of course you did, you loved him enough to not report him missing EVER (she has never reported him missing)
Because she loved him so much

More like the ABUSE They were dishing out...
Of course they do THEY GOT CAUGHT OUT


As I said they were getting money. And of course she feels guilty You got caught out. I hope they make her pay back every cent.
Again of course she does, shes been busted, How about reporting him MISSING - oh thats right that WOULD have drawn attention to what she's done to him AND With him..


More like when the law is gonna catch up with her




Of course she denies it, and of course her sister and her BIOLOGICAL Children are just making it all up...
And yes all good Psychiatrists tell parents to lock your child in the bathroom and give them the bath as a bed Not try removing all knives and taking it in turns staying up and watching over the child, or getting him help (if it was at all true - which I do not believe)

Yes well thats a good way to lock him in...and of course it was for her protection

Because it was probably A LOT MORE THAN THAT:furious:

Of course you did, hence the bathtub WITH A PILLOW AND SLEEPING BAG....Oooh what a lucky boy I do hope he was grateful !



BINGO and there we have that magical word......And where are these Written psychiatrists reports ??? does she think maybe he had any of these things because of her Treatment of him ????

.

Hmmmmm Removed from their care.......and we have her word (such a truthful word that it is ) that it wasnt for abuse ...
Makes you wonder if she didn't resent that Adam was not removed and his sister was ???



Of course she did , and thats why she went on to DO IT AGAIN

HE HARDLY EVER got a spanking - but that means he got some.....

Wouldn't that DATE and DAY be etched in your brain forever....................
Of course it was - it had NOTHING To do with her belting's and making him sleep in a bathtub


Really ? then why did the children say that they were told Adam had gone back to the State ?


Of course they did , they were cr@pping themselves ....From the LE and God
Of course not you've had his $700 a month coming in to keep reminding you
So do I under a mound of dirt


:furious::furious::furious:

Jane, you wrote all the things I was thinking while reading this pathetic excuse's statement! :behindbar:behindbar:behindbar

Oh, and re your last sentence: ( Attributed to Valerie Herrman by a relative)"They can dig up the whole state of Kansas, they'll never find a body."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28532417/

 

[JaneInOz]

Jane, you wrote all the things I was thinking while reading this pathetic excuse's statement! :behindbar:behindbar:behindbar

Oh, and re your last sentence: ( Attributed to Valerie Herrman by a relative)"They can dig up the whole state of Kansas, they'll never find a body."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28532417/

I just had to verbalise it all...

Im thinking of actually putting the exact thing on my blog !

Really ? someone said that ? Im off to look at the link

OMG From the Article (bold mine) snipped

"We started this, which was hard against our own parents as we were not adopted," Crystal said. "But we want more than anything to find the truth, answers and justice."

Crystal also talks of Adam being abused.

"We pray every day our parents will come forward," Crystal said. "Do the right thing not only for what they already put Adam through in the past, but to make it right for him now."

There Biological daughter can see the wrong doing and is prepared to do this - It MUST have been horrific for Adam..

Meanwhile, Butler County Sheriff Craig Murphy said Tuesday an intensive search, which will include canines, will be done Saturday in the woods around the Whitewater River area west of Towanda.

"One of the things that we found is a lot of times the woods are a place where stuff is dumped," Murphy said. "When I say stuff, I'm talking about what could be evidence, could be bodies."

And they are preparing to execute a search warrant !

 

[*Hayley*]

http://www.individual.com/story.php?story=94229740

SNIPPED



So she left a bruise on her Older child and LOST Custody OF ALL her children.....

As i said there are some really HUGE Issues of ripping children from their biological families and shoving them in foster care / adopting them out in Kansas... Im trying to locate a link which has a LOT of stories regarding this...

Unfortunately in many cases they take the child when they shouldn't...And then there are the chronically abused children that Child Welfare keep on going back to time and time again and NEVER remove the child (Baby P is just one that springs to mind)

Why is it so backward ?

Damn sure that this little Boy Adam would be far better off with his bio parents and them getting some Parenting / Anger Management help classes than lying DEAD Somewhere which I guarantee he is

What have we learnt , after all, from the most recent Case of Caylee Anthony, not reported for 31 days - end result she is dead...People who don't report their children missing do so for a reason...

I was taken from my parents when I was 12 (just 30 days away from 13) and it was for child abandonment. The messed up thing about it was that my father had custody of me and I lived at my mom's, well she and I had a fight, she drives me home to my dad's, my dad drives me back, mom won't open the door, the cops show up and take me to a group home. Dad gets charged with abandonment, when it should have been my mom.

Anyway I was never abused EVER, and I stayed in CPS for 4 years until I was 17. I saw kids in the system who were far worse off then I, I had no business being in foster care wasting valuable resources.

So yes it is VERY backwards. They shovel them in and hurry to get them out.