Found Deceased KS - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #15 *Arrest*

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They have to - by law- turn over everything related to the child endangerment charge
That is all they have to turn over.
This is why they pulled the charge regarding Lucas


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I’ve drafted many volumes of discovery in civil cases, but I’m not familiar with the Kansas codes of procedure. I’d recommend anyone with an interest to google “Kansas Code of Criminal Procedure.” I know they aren’t the same as civil procedures and I believe the trial judge has some discretion over what she may or may not deem discoverable.
 
Just checking in for the night...thinking of Lucas. I wish I had more to contribute but I don’t, just love, light, and hope.


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I understand the love/hate dynamic in families of abuse, but I don't think it would comfort me at all to think that the person that took my child's life even somewhat loved them at that point. I know it happens. I just wouldn't take comfort in it.:moo:
---my text size is going all wonky on me :) --

I definitely realize how nuts it sounds! I say that because as a mom, if I were to think of my child spending 365 days in a situation where every day the felt abuse, it would be far more devastating then it being a situation where maybe 30 days were abusive but the rest were not. Kids raised by physically abusive parents have reported being comforted by a parent whom also abused them. It’s part of the reason abuse can cycle thru generations because with negative experiences and behavior can also come with positive experiences and behavior. If it were all bad and abusive, it would be so much easier to eradicate. None of it takes away from the pain of losing a child.....some parents it’s comforting to thing that not all was bad. My own child has had some really horrible, abusive experiences and so I had to find a way to process things in a way where I can parent her from a place that doesn’t come from guilt.......but it’s really hard at times.


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I’ve drafted many volumes of discovery in civil cases, but I’m not familiar with the Kansas codes of procedure. I’d recommend anyone with an interest to google “Kansas Code of Criminal Procedure.” I know they aren’t the same as civil procedures and I believe the trial judge has some discretion over what she may or may not deem discoverable.

This says essentially that everything is potentially discoverable related to the case except internal reports and memos on either side, some things have to remain solely in the prosecution control and can only be viewed by the defense; and the judge has some discretion but if they disallow anything it has to be sealed and placed into the trial record should it come up on appeal.
http://codes.findlaw.com/ks/chapter-22-criminal-procedure/ks-st-sect-22-3212.html


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ESO .. I totally get what your saying.
 
I’ve drafted many volumes of discovery in civil cases, but I’m not familiar with the Kansas codes of procedure. I’d recommend anyone with an interest to google “Kansas Code of Criminal Procedure.” I know they aren’t the same as civil procedures and I believe the trial judge has some discretion over what she may or may not deem discoverable.

the judge absolutely has control. He/she can order it in the hearing, continue it or take it under consideration. It may be premature and he/she could include that as well. And the motion could be denied.
 
the judge absolutely has control. He/she can order it in the hearing, continue it or take it under consideration. It may be premature and he/she could include that as well. And the motion could be denied.

I was wondering about ‘premature’
Reading the KS criminal code, it says the prosecution and defense should agree on when to have discovery, and it should be within 21 days after arraignment - she hasn’t been arraigned yet has she, isn’t that what was continued on 3/13?


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I wish things were very black and white, but they aren’t. I’m basing all this off my own opinion of course too, but also based on my back ground in child protection and my masters in social work. What EG May define as love could be very different than what you or I define it as. I’ve worked with families where abuse occurs, and if you can feel hate, you can feel love too. It’s difficult to understand someone who abuses a child but that doesn’t mean they didn’t care for and even love that child. Please understand I’m not for one moment saying there is any excuse for hurting a child to a point you take their life, but the key to stopping any child abuse related deaths is dependent on understanding that parents/care givers can, and do, often love their kids. To simply write it all off as hate is too short sided and will continue to stymie any opportunities to learn from these situations. But my opinions are my own and I have not sat down with EG of course. I do think, as a mom, it would give me some peace thinking my child was at least loved somewhat by the person who took their life. It certainly doesn’t mean that person deserves any less punishment tho.


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Oh No.

'Abuser's emotional needs' needs to be erased from whatever rules determine whether they have access to minors.

The world does not have time for that type of immature self centered drama.
 
Oh No.

'Abuser's emotional needs' needs to be erased from whatever rules determine whether they have access to minors.

The world does not have time for that type of immature self centered drama.

I did not say that was a part of it at all. Drama period has no place in child protection issues. My perspective is more about trying to understand abuser’s behavior, factors like childhood abuse is important to know because it has an impact on further behavior. That’s all. The fact unfortunately is, the way the system works right now is often at odds between protecting children and parents legal rights. For instance, you can know a child is being abused as an investigator but it’s the courts who get the ultimate say.....if you can’t prove your case on things then kids are left in at risk situations. It takes time to build a case, until something goes to court, parents don’t have to let CPS in their home, CPS can’t make a parent answer questions or submit to supervision if they don’t want to.....that makes it challenging to building a case. And therefore just as hard to present it to a judge asking for a legal way to force the issue.


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This is my updated case reviews on children who die due to child abuse/neglect and parents falsely report them missing. I will warn you, it’s big and I can’t tell on my end if you can see the data via PDF. It’s not complete, I’m still working on it. I can hide a bunch of the informational columns just because I’m looking for patterns, similarities and differences. You will NOT hurt my feelings if you can’t read it or if you aren’t interested in the information at all. I can give a list of the websites I use a lot for picking my cases tho Im trying to finish up what I have before adding anymore cases.

I welcome any questions/suggestions/requests, etc.

I will also warn I’m including very disturbing information, even some pictures but it’s all at the end of the spreadsheet so if you don’t want to see them, you don’t have to.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18qHzy4rxMGUYck4TfqFSulwx50mKkWkY




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This is my updated case reviews on children who die due to child abuse/neglect and parents falsely report them missing. I will warn you, it’s big and I can’t tell on my end if you can see the data via PDF. It’s not complete, I’m still working on it. I can hide a bunch of the informational columns just because I’m looking for patterns, similarities and differences. You will NOT hurt my feelings if you can’t read it or if you aren’t interested in the information at all. I can give a list of the websites I use a lot for picking my cases tho Im trying to finish up what I have before adding anymore cases.

I welcome any questions/suggestions/requests, etc.

I will also warn I’m including very disturbing information, even some pictures but it’s all at the end of the spreadsheet so if you don’t want to see them, you don’t have to.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18qHzy4rxMGUYck4TfqFSulwx50mKkWkY




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Thanks going to check it out now:)
 
Thanks going to check it out now:)

Please let me know if you can see it, open it and zoom in. I’m reformatting it all the time so I’m hoping to find a truncated version giving the best information in the smallest quantity possible.


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I am having difficulty seeing it...I'm trying:blushing:. I'm working on downloading it into a more view-able form. Not that savvy all the time LOL.

I've dealt with the fallout of abuse thru a husband who was severely abused all of his childhood by a dad who took them away from their mom after a weekend visit. They didn't see mom again until they were 18. They were drug to over 21 countries and she never knew where they were.

During that time she remarried and had 2 more kids whom she raised with love and kindness.

She suspected her other 2 boys with their dad could be being abused, but she didn't want to think of it. She took comfort in knowing that he did in fact actually love them. He did/does to this day in fact. People do get help and change. Thank God.

Long story short he severely abused me for 15+ years. He's the man I made peace with long ago and he overdosed in my kitchen intentionally in January while I was gone and I found his body days later, which was probably his way of saying he couldn't forgive himself, he was sorry and he couldn't deal with the pain his childhood had caused him one more day. :(
Abuse bites!
:moo:
 
I can picture EG telling police that when she found Lucas missing and the door wide open, she ran out the house without her shoes on to look for him. This would denote the immediate panic of an innocent, frantic "mom". LE may have wanted to verify this by asking if anyone actually saw "somebody" (her) running shoeless to determine if it was a lie. I think that would be significant to them. Just a guess on my part.

When she went to the next door neighbour to ask if he had seen Lucas, she was carrying the baby, and was visibly upset--"shaking". The neighbour never mentioned if she was shoeless, but LE may have asked him that later. If she is guilty (eye roll) she is one heck of an actress and liar.

:ditto: Me too.
:moo:
 
I definitely realize how nuts it sounds! I say that because as a mom, if I were to think of my child spending 365 days in a situation where every day the felt abuse, it would be far more devastating then it being a situation where maybe 30 days were abusive but the rest were not. Kids raised by physically abusive parents have reported being comforted by a parent whom also abused them. It’s part of the reason abuse can cycle thru generations because with negative experiences and behavior can also come with positive experiences and behavior. If it were all bad and abusive, it would be so much easier to eradicate. None of it takes away from the pain of losing a child.....some parents it’s comforting to thing that not all was bad. My own child has had some really horrible, abusive experiences and so I had to find a way to process things in a way where I can parent her from a place that doesn’t come from guilt.......but it’s really hard at times.


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One of the saddest things about a child being abused is that small kids don't understand hate. They can be beaten to the brink of death and still look into the face of their parent/caregiver and smile at them. This is why, in my eyes, anyone who can hurt a child is an evil monster.

I love reading your posts ESO. I always feel like I'm learning something when I read your stuff. I agree to a certain extent what you're saying. I believe that the abuser may "love" the child in the only way they know how. But that isn't pure love. It's a broken love, if that makes sense. Imo.
 
I did not say that was a part of it at all. Drama period has no place in child protection issues. My perspective is more about trying to understand abuser’s behavior, factors like childhood abuse is important to know because it has an impact on further behavior. That’s all. The fact unfortunately is, the way the system works right now is often at odds between protecting children and parents legal rights. For instance, you can know a child is being abused as an investigator but it’s the courts who get the ultimate say.....if you can’t prove your case on things then kids are left in at risk situations. It takes time to build a case, until something goes to court, parents don’t have to let CPS in their home, CPS can’t make a parent answer questions or submit to supervision if they don’t want to.....that makes it challenging to building a case. And therefore just as hard to present it to a judge asking for a legal way to force the issue.


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You have some interesting aspects to add to these cases.
The public is generally unaware of how much bureaucracy is behind what appears to be very cut & dried obvious situations. Some of the process is a great thing, while other procedures seem to be... ah... bizarre and unfounded (catering to adults who 'need' to feel whatever).

I spoke specifically to the concept that adults who've inflicted needless cruelty upon their wards, being protected and promoted by a legal process- in spite and Because of a mess they themselves have created. By all means, put those people into programs to treat whatever ails them.
But on the same token... NEVER allow these psychos any contact with the innocents they have damaged and tried to break. Sure, I know how foster kids scream & cry- most of them have no clue what torture is; they'll live. And they will find balance & grace without the demons their predecessors loved.

I know full well how this works. I had to be shown (not told) to pretend to threaten suicide at the end of a therapy session, to be taken into custody; with a shrieking abuser at the door it was not hard to beg & back to a high up window yelling I'd jump through it, if she came in the door, while the therapist dialed the local police.

You might know the things I went through for years while no worker managed to remove me. Slept in animal feces huddled by livestock for warmth. Forced to eat pine needles and beg food from strangers at truck stops. Dumped in my junior high parking lot stark naked in winter sneaking & tapping at office window for help (but not too loud, god forbid). This is the light parts. The Normal daily routine stuff.

Her 'feelings' took center stage, enraptured by the endless posturing there was no room for my brother & I, or our worthless lives anywhere, much less later in court.

I spent time being fed by tube in an institution. Placed in a 'safehouse' for months. eventually CPS tried to close my case & put me back because she 'cried a lot' (while throwing the favorite child, my little brother at walls & beating him with books). Stalked me at my school (cafeteria work, after being told to stay away from everything associated with my life). Conned a church to help her stalking mission (I was forced to attend fake counseling with her & hand delivered to the crazy by GAL)- after begging to never see her EVER again multiple times in court.
This 'parent' took 'her side' to local papers, and when that wasn't enough vindication, went on Oprah.

At no time did anyone convict her with her well documented crimes.

I am very lucky to still be here. My body tells me in many ways every day. She still tells my grandmother and anyone who will listen, I am an addict, I have eating disorders, anything to exonerate Her.

And people are happy to listen.

EG does not need that chance.

Ever.
 
One of the saddest things about a child being abused is that small kids don't understand hate. They can be beaten to the brink of death and still look into the face of their parent/caregiver and smile at them. This is why, in my eyes, anyone who can hurt a child is an evil monster.

I love reading your posts ESO. I always feel like I'm learning something when I read your stuff. I agree to a certain extent what you're saying. I believe that the abuser may "love" the child in the only way they know how. But that isn't pure love. It's a broken love, if that makes sense. Imo.

Thank you, I appreciate you saying that. I definitely agree, defining what “love” is can change from most normal people would think it is versus an abusive person. I’m literally trying to wrap my head around this whole case just so I can help search for Lucas in person as well as at home. I’m learning thru research and it can be devastating reading all these cases to find the right ones most similar to Lucas’s. Sharing what I’m finding is therapeutic for me.


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I am having difficulty seeing it...I'm trying:blushing:. I'm working on downloading it into a more view-able form. Not that savvy all the time LOL.

I've dealt with the fallout of abuse thru a husband who was severely abused all of his childhood by a dad who took them away from their mom after a weekend visit. They didn't see mom again until they were 18. They were drug to over 21 countries and she never knew where they were.

During that time she remarried and had 2 more kids whom she raised with love and kindness.

She suspected her other 2 boys with their dad could be being abused, but she didn't want to think of it. She took comfort in knowing that he did in fact actually love them. He did/does to this day in fact. People do get help and change. Thank God.

Long story short he severely abused me for 15+ years. He's the man I made peace with long ago and he overdosed in my kitchen intentionally in January while I was gone and I found his body days later, which was probably his way of saying he couldn't forgive himself, he was sorry and he couldn't deal with the pain his childhood had caused him one more day. :(
Abuse bites!
:moo:

It’s definitely hard to read, I wasn’t sure how it would come across so it’s helpful for others to see it for me to know what I need to adjust.....Im working on a shortened version of it until I can figure out a better solution!

I think it’s learning from every case that will make the system work better, and save more kids. Seeing how it affects kids as they grow into adults is an area I think needs more study, based on situations just like yours, but sadly it doesn’t seem to be happening like it should. Ending the abuse in one generation is only as successful as ending it in the next!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
This is my updated case reviews on children who die due to child abuse/neglect and parents falsely report them missing. I will warn you, it’s big and I can’t tell on my end if you can see the data via PDF. It’s not complete, I’m still working on it. I can hide a bunch of the informational columns just because I’m looking for patterns, similarities and differences. You will NOT hurt my feelings if you can’t read it or if you aren’t interested in the information at all. I can give a list of the websites I use a lot for picking my cases tho Im trying to finish up what I have before adding anymore cases.

I welcome any questions/suggestions/requests, etc.

I will also warn I’m including very disturbing information, even some pictures but it’s all at the end of the spreadsheet so if you don’t want to see them, you don’t have to.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18qHzy4rxMGUYck4TfqFSulwx50mKkWkY




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I can read page 2 onward, but page 1 isn't zooming in far enough to read it. Is there any chance you could do what you did before to make it zoom in further?

You must have worked SO hard on this! Thank you so much!
 
You have some interesting aspects to add to these cases.
The public is generally unaware of how much bureaucracy is behind what appears to be very cut & dried obvious situations. Some of the process is a great thing, while other procedures seem to be... ah... bizarre and unfounded (catering to adults who 'need' to feel whatever).

I spoke specifically to the concept that adults who've inflicted needless cruelty upon their wards, being protected and promoted by a legal process- in spite and Because of a mess they themselves have created. By all means, put those people into programs to treat whatever ails them.
But on the same token... NEVER allow these psychos any contact with the innocents they have damaged and tried to break. Sure, I know how foster kids scream & cry- most of them have no clue what torture is; they'll live. And they will find balance & grace without the demons their predecessors loved.

I know full well how this works. I had to be shown (not told) to pretend to threaten suicide at the end of a therapy session, to be taken into custody; with a shrieking abuser at the door it was not hard to beg & back to a high up window yelling I'd jump through it, if she came in the door, while the therapist dialed the local police.

You might know the things I went through for years while no worker managed to remove me. Slept in animal feces huddled by livestock for warmth. Forced to eat pine needles and beg food from strangers at truck stops. Dumped in my junior high parking lot stark naked in winter sneaking & tapping at office window for help (but not too loud, god forbid). This is the light parts. The Normal daily routine stuff.

Her 'feelings' took center stage, enraptured by the endless posturing there was no room for my brother & I, or our worthless lives anywhere, much less later in court.

I spent time being fed by tube in an institution. Placed in a 'safehouse' for months. eventually CPS tried to close my case & put me back because she 'cried a lot' (while throwing the favorite child, my little brother at walls & beating him with books). Stalked me at my school (cafeteria work, after being told to stay away from everything associated with my life). Conned a church to help her stalking mission (I was forced to attend fake counseling with her & hand delivered to the crazy by GAL)- after begging to never see her EVER again multiple times in court.
This 'parent' took 'her side' to local papers, and when that wasn't enough vindication, went on Oprah.

At no time did anyone convict her with her well documented crimes.

I am very lucky to still be here. My body tells me in many ways every day. She still tells my grandmother and anyone who will listen, I am an addict, I have eating disorders, anything to exonerate Her.

And people are happy to listen.

EG does not need that chance.

Ever.

I absolutely 20000% agree with you. That’s what scares me about thinking we’d have to sacrifice justice for Lucas in order to find his body. The fact is, our obligation now is getting him justice, and that can’t come in second behind finding him. To me, Lucas isn’t lost.......he knows exactly where he is and being away from all this pain on Earth is the safest place for him. We want to find his body for his family, but we owe Lucas his day in court. If EG gets out of jail without being charged with his death, as disgusting as it sounds, she’d still have her rights intact to be around not just her own children, but everyone else’s. We failed at protect Lucas from her so we have to protect all other children from being a victim of hers too. I think for anyone outside the legal system, it’s hard to understand why things happen the way they do so I’m doing my best to fill in those gaps as much as possible. I’ve read cases that have haunted me, the ones like yours are so hard to comprehend because it goes against everything I’ve ever known about being a parent. Hearing cases like yours are so important, thank you for sharing it. I’m trying to see these things from all angels, especially from the victims themselves.


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