Found Deceased Ks - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #29

[dixiegirl1035]

Phew!

Transcription done. If there are errors, please let me know, so I can fix them.

JH Interview with NG.docx

The clip of EG talking to Marshburn makes me want to hurl. Whining about her unfair bond, and then the ultimate -
"Well of course you have to release me, ‘cause you want to find Lucas!”

Are. You. Kidding Me.
How he didn't backhand her is beyond me.
He played her GOOD. I wasn't even kidding about that voodoo doll, she must feel a right chump.
Tiny Silver linings.

Thanks so much for the transcription! I can't believe that Nancy ended the interview with that bombshell and did not let him respond in any way to her comments. Typical of Nancy. From the above link...

"NG: This is what we’re learning at this hour. Reportedly, police are back at Lucas Hernandez home just last night, investigating again. There are claims two autopsies have been completed on the child. All we know right now is, it is now believed, based on autopsy 2, that 5 year old Lucas died the 10th or 11th in a bathroom. How do we know this? As of yet, unconfirmed, but something about the autopsy with a late night search last night seems to indicate that Lucas was killed in the homes bathroom. To JOnathan Hernandez, you have no idea how much we have prayed for you and tried our best, in any way we can to help find Lucas even now, those prayers go on, in the prayers for justice, and for your peace, and for little Lucas. Nancy Grace, Crimestories signing off."

 

[dixiegirl1035]

What sort of things are in most bathrooms? Toilet, bath, shower, sink, toiletries, medicine cabinet?

Why would NG say it's now believed, after autopsy 2, that Lucas died in the bathroom?

Why would LE have to return to the bathroom? Did they miss something on their first look and have to go back after a surprise finding in the autopsy?

I find it hard to believe they didn't take cadaver dogs in during the first week. It might be a possibility, I just find it hard to believe.

Perhaps they return to the house To look for bleached hair in the drain trap?

 

[Insomnia Momma]

I'm afraid this isn't correct. Water can enter the lungs of a submerged body post-mortem. I've read it in literature and also heard the evidence in the murder trial of Ian Stewart / Helen Bailey where one of our top pathologists could not determine whether she had died by drowning in the cesspit or if she was already dead when her body was put there.

I'm not suggesting that there was sufficient depth of water in the culvert for Lucas to be submerged, only responding on your point.

That’s the case I was trying to find last night! Thank you!

Also, from my research and the links I posted last night, it’s very difficult to diagnose a drowning as a COD in an autopsy. It would be pretty much a miracle that the defense would have a field day disproving if drowning is listed as the COD.

 

[DakotaMayi]

Still here, floating around, waiting for justice for Lucas

 

[Kadoober]

Thanks so much for the transcription! I can't believe that Nancy ended the interview with that bombshell and did not let him respond in any way to her comments. Typical of Nancy. From the above link...

"NG: This is what we’re learning at this hour. Reportedly, police are back at Lucas Hernandez home just last night, investigating again. There are claims two autopsies have been completed on the child. All we know right now is, it is now believed, based on autopsy 2, that 5 year old Lucas died the 10th or 11th in a bathroom. How do we know this? As of yet, unconfirmed, but something about the autopsy with a late night search last night seems to indicate that Lucas was killed in the homes bathroom. To JOnathan Hernandez, you have no idea how much we have prayed for you and tried our best, in any way we can to help find Lucas even now, those prayers go on, in the prayers for justice, and for your peace, and for little Lucas. Nancy Grace, Crimestories signing off."

Fwiw, this part you've snipped sounded like a different recording. I don't think JH was on the line anymore, this was tacked on to the end of the podcast.

 

[Kamm5]

The information about the homeless man must have been known earlier to search teams and those in the know.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Perhaps they return to the house To look for bleached hair in the drain trap?

I'm just so confused about this bleached hair business. Has it actually been confirmed one way or another if it was just a strip of hair bleached out from exposure to the sun, or if his hair had actually been chemically bleached?

 

[Beth11311]

I'm just so confused about this bleached hair business. Has it actually been confirmed one way or another if it was just a strip of hair bleached out from exposure to the sun, or if his hair had actually been chemically bleached?

My understanding based only on what we have heard from NG and PI DM, was that his hair was bleached by the sun, as his head was positioned in a way where it was exposed to sun. I havent read or seen any MSM about the hair, nor have we had any other confirmation. I think it’s safe to say at this point, if hair was lightened, it was postmortem from sun.

Regarding drains though, they are great for holding onto blood and other evidence...so looking at the drains/pipes is a good idea if they suspect something occured in there.

 

[Amonet]

There's only so far one can boldly go before that ish bites em in the azz. Especially when it isn't the first attempted murder in one's life...

That poor kid had a hard life and didn't deserve what happened, by whom was already an over-his-head repeat offender, and although old as dirt in comparison to all these whippersnappers- EG isn't smart enough to connect the dots how other's peripheral worlds work against her yet. That stack never went away.
Why doesn't anyone notice how she abandoned the backup story ship ASAP when faced with FBI & publicly traceable statements? Almost as though EG initially assumed filing off Lucas would be no different than what she'd done to Scully 'her beloved cat'; 'at a time like this'.
Generalizations exist to distance just as personalization lays claim.

Everyone fussing over keeping initials straight needs to remember we're just warming up.



Not what belongs in a bathroom.

Because of the dogs, months ago.



Oh honey let me not be the one to know...

But, yes. Would. There. Ever.

Which backup story are you referring to being abandoned? It seems more like multiple attempts to throw mud in the hope that some will stick enough to take the heat off her (EG).

One of the first stories EG seems to have thrown out is the one about JO and valentine's day.

By the time of the media interview from jail she seemed to be implying falls that were not her fault and that Lucas' relatives hated her. Plus the two strangers outside smoking.

I can only conjecture that once arrested when they found Lucas' body her mind was still confused by what happened with DM, she might not have realized that DM was playing her, so when she made those desperate calls to JH (and given the timing of her release it's hard to know if those calls were made from the jail or after she got out) she seems to have still been thinking that story she spun to DM had worked, so she continued to spin that one with JH (I woke up and he was dead in his bed! Please don't hate me!)

 

[SecretGarden]

I think forensic testing to rule in/out things like algae, lime, rust etc would take longer to determine than just the few weeks we've had. Maybe not, but if we're to believe NG's "bombshell", I am leaning towards there being something physical - especially when you take into account what DM said about EG's description of how she found Lucas not matching with how he was found.

Can you clarify what I bolded? I must’ve read incorrectly, because I thought DM said he found LH just as EG described putting him there in the culvert. Or are you referring to how she found him ‘on his back in bed??’

 

[Amonet]

There's only so far one can boldly go before that ish bites em in the azz. Especially when it isn't the first attempted murder in one's life...

That poor kid had a hard life and didn't deserve what happened, by whom was already an over-his-head repeat offender, and although old as dirt in comparison to all these whippersnappers- EG isn't smart enough to connect the dots how other's peripheral worlds work against her yet. That stack never went away.
Why doesn't anyone notice how she abandoned the backup story ship ASAP when faced with FBI & publicly traceable statements? Almost as though EG initially assumed filing off Lucas would be no different than what she'd done to Scully 'her beloved cat'; 'at a time like this'.
Generalizations exist to distance just as personalization lays claim.

Everyone fussing over keeping initials straight needs to remember we're just warming up.



Not what belongs in a bathroom.

Because of the dogs, months ago.



Oh honey let me not be the one to know...

But, yes. Would. There. Ever.

For the part in the quote that I've turned pink...

kitty litter?

 

[andalso]

So...EG tried to pin it on

JO
CR
2 randoms in pic

Who else?

And the bruises/injuries were blamed on...
her own sons
the older cousins
falls out of truck
monkey bars

What else?

 

[kkdj]

So...EG tried to pin it on

JO
CR
2 randoms in pic

Who else?

And the bruises/injuries were blamed on...
her own sons
the older cousins
falls out of truck
monkey bars

What else?

 

[ScarlettLin]

Can you clarify what I bolded? I must’ve read incorrectly, because I thought DM said he found LH just as EG described putting him there in the culvert. Or are you referring to how she found him ‘on his back in bed??’

DM alluded to the fact that Lucas’ appearance didn’t match with her story of waking up and he was dead...like something indicated he didn’t just pass on in his sleep. Speculatively on my part, perhaps an apparent head wound...

 

[Amonet]

Can you clarify what I bolded? I must’ve read incorrectly, because I thought DM said he found LH just as EG described putting him there in the culvert. Or are you referring to how she found him ‘on his back in bed??’

Yes, although I'm not PhoneJockey, DM said that he found Lucas placed in the culvert in the same way EG described placing him there.

But DM also said that what EG said about finding Lucas in bed did not match with what he saw when he looked at the body in the culvert. I think he said that she was let down in the lie by not knowing enough about decomposition.

I guess that could mean that DM saw an injury that definitely didn't match with EG's story. Or there's an outside chance that by shining a torch on the body that DM could see signs of livor mortis, which shouldn't be on the front of the face if Lucas died on his back and was then placed on his back in the culvert.

 

[kkdj]

DM alluded to the fact that Lucas’ appearance didn’t match with her story of waking up and he was dead...like something indicated he didn’t just pass on in his sleep. Speculatively on my part, perhaps an apparent head wound...

That's precisely what I'm thinking and that the head wound fits with something from the bathroom.

 

[newmember]

fwiw, my thoughts re CR. this post is based off his statement of not seeing Lucas (and being cleared by LE) so I am thinking about a scenario where Lucas has passed already and was out of the house (or maybe hidden in the house)

the logical side of me says this is an unrelated accident:
-Part 1: its eerily similar to CA in that both Caylee and Lucas had passed and CA and EG just continued to party on. Maybe Lucas had passed by Fri Feb 16 but EG was still alive and well, why shouldn't she have a friend over, kick back and enjoy herself? idk what EG or CR did that night and im not trying to speculate anything negative on his behalf but imo, i am speculating EG and CR were going to socialize/hang out - i dont think our good samaritan EG invited him in from the cold randomly. imo, they prob were friends/acquaintances of some sort and it wasnt entirely random. its also possible that EG both wanted to hang out but also set up someone to frame for Lucas' disappearance.

Part 2: but what would drive EG to need to kill him? hes a 22 year old kid. it seems like EG could easily make up a story why Lucas wasnt there: he was at a sleepover w friends, with his mom or he was upstairs sick in his room. its easy for us to question everything EG says/does in hindsight but this kid (and yes kid, not an adult with extensive parenting experience) would be hearing this all in the moment and why would he question if Lucas was too young for a sleepover or suspiciously quiet for a sick kid - he wouldnt. the logical side of me is having a hard time seeing WHY he would be a loose end bc not seeing Lucas doesnt seem like enough of one.

the curious side of me considering this was set up by EG:
Part 1: maybe EG was planning a setup, as Marshburn suspects (9http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article212330284.html). so after her CA-style afternoon of smoking bowls and eating bottomless pasta at OG, she connects with CR bc they either know each other directly, via friends, or she drives around after OG to her old homeless spots & chats him up. there seems to be a pattern of EG trying to throw suspects on a wall and seeing what sticks which makes it more believable to me she'd attempt to weave in this storyline Her potential suspects are also people she likely hopes won't have an alibi (i remember FLA mentioning her best guess was EG hoped JO couldnt account for whereabouts on the 14th, smoking couple cant defend themselves bc they are nothing more than a photo and CR was homeless).

Part 2: so she tries to frame him but again, what happens that she would need to kill him?? maybe at the time, CR wasnt suspecting EG of anything bc again, why should he be? but maybe after his police questioning, something clicked or he remembered something he saw (blanket with blood on it, something weird in the car, odd smelling clothes in the laundry). just an example, but if theres truth to this bathroom theory, maybe LE already had some evidence about the bathroom and asked him about something chipped/broken/stained during his questioning. so he confronts, or even harmlessly asks EG to clarify and she freaks out. or maybe CR hadnt connected the dots but told EG something about his questioning that made her freak and worry he'd figure out what she'd done. having someone spend the night in your home shortly after murdering a child is a recipe for disaster...he likely was in her kitchen, bathroom, possibly awake when EG wasnt - he could have accidentally stumbled across something, not realizing it was evidence yet.

Part 3: even if part 1 & 2 make sense, who would kill for EG AND come forward so quickly? we know the driver was a Mike (22-year-old Wichita man killed in hit-and-run crash on Kellogg identified by police) so one of the logical speculations would be her drug dealer. imo a drug dealer wont do that for you but a drug deal slash lover would. or maybe MS isnt her drug dealer but another guy under her love spell. it seems like LE would have connected if MS and EG had any type of relationship by now.

so idk, imo, it seems like a stretch but i cant rule it out entirely. its also been really helpful to people posting the maps/location of where the accident was - im more visual but even still without having been there, i cant tell how realistic/unrealistic it seems.

 

[Amonet]

I love all the brainstorming about the bathroom!

Things that stand out from them to me. NG intimated that Lucas died in the bathroom, not just body placed in the bathroom after death.

I like the idea of sending a forensic team back to match carpet fibers that might be inside a deathly wound, or perhaps in the mouth or on the lips?

I like the idea of the post-mortem banding on hair and perhaps looking for that in drains/traps.

tnith seems to be suggesting there might have been presence of kitty litter in the bathroom in an attempt by EG to cover up post-mortem smell.

The shape of faucets or shower head matching to a wound is also something they couldn't have checked before the body was found.

Lucas was found on his back in just an inch or two of water. It's unlikely that water in that environment could have compromised the findings in any lung tissue present. I still think there's a chance of finding water with surfactants (from bubble bath or shampoo), death by drowning, and maybe finger prints on the back of the neck or arms that show someone held Lucas face down in water, and then perhaps he was left face down for enough time for livor mortis to develop on the front of his body.

With all these options, EG is going to find it hard to throw out another story to fit what the ME has found that also make EG look as innocent as finding Lucas passed in his sleep.

 

[Kamm5]

My fear is s defense team will try use CR death if termed a suicide to create doubt

 

[Beth11311]

Hernandez autopsy could take 'several weeks'

An email from a Sedgwick County spokesperson to KSN news today confirmed the autopsy is pending, but added, it "can take up to 90 days to be completed. It will be several weeks yet."

If the autopsy is pending, any guesses if this means pending as in it hasn’t even started yet or pending in terms of results? Normally, to me, this would mean it hasn’t even started yet, but JH said while on with NG that it should be done “today or tomorrow” I believe. Hmmmm. VERY curious if what NG shared is correct or not. This whole timeline being thrown off, bathroom bombshell etc. Trying to wait patiently for confirmation of some sort from outside sources/MSM.