Found Deceased Ks - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #31

[flute4peace]

It's heartless and unprofessional that they didn't tell the family first. I've seen it before and it really angers me. They should know better than that...

My guess is someone other than LE broke the news to the media before LE had a chance. That's what happens in this world of instant news, scanners, twitter etc. Sucks

 

[Charliegizmo49]

So much about Lucas life was handled badly. And retribution is a valid human response. We all want to get even, but the list of failures is to long to accomplish it. Ultimately it was DCF that failed. I can only hope the employees who were assigned his complaints were admonished for their incompetence. They were his last and most significant safety net.

No retrubution is enough and nothing is going to undo what’s been done. Now all that’s left us to prevent it from happening to another child and comfort those who feel the loss of Lucas through unbearable sorrow.

 

[Traymar]

I took some time to think about this question because I've never really stopped to think about it.

I've typed this out a few times and then deleted it because I don't really like talking about myself... But here it goes. Mods, this is clearly a "me" post so it won't hurt my feelings if you delete this.

It's been 20 days since Lucas was found, but every one of those days has blended together into one long day (I had to get out the calendar and count how many days it had been because it only feels like maybe a week or so). Actually the entire last four (?) months have blended together, too.

Our lives have been almost nothing but Lucas for so long. I prepared my mind for a very long haul... for him to be found, then a trial, etc. Now that Emily is dead, the end of the tunnel is coming much faster than I had prepared for. So I'm dealing with those emotions. I'm not prepared to heal yet. Keeping these emotions raw keeps Lucas at the front of my heart and mind.

I haven't showered in several days. The house is a mess. I'm starting to hit the end of my rope with people elsewhere and I've been a bit... sassy.

But I'll be ok. I'll heal. I'll find my path to help Lucas change the world.

My son and I are both in therapy. We don't talk about Lucas yet, but we know we can when we're ready.

After writing all of that, I really need to say that I worry far more about Jamie and the rest of the family. They're not ok and I want so badly to take away this pain for them.

ETA: My husband is telling me I showered yesterday.

Thank you so much for sharing this, FLA. I have to say, I thought I was through crying over Lucas, but your post really got to me. I know I'm pages behind so I started to leave my response as just a like, but I just couldn't.

I am many cities and states away in a cubicle in south Alabama, eating lunch at my desk and catching up on WS, but your post immediately spirited me across the miles to you and Lucas. I feel so strongly for you all, and I so hope you can feel the sincere love and concern from all of us here at WS.

I also want to say that your remarkable grace and openness are a testament to Lucas and every pure and good thing he stands for. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you've done for Lucas and for all of us cheering you on from afar, and thank you for the beautiful example of honest, unguarded, and courageous love and advocacy that you have been throughout this ordeal.

Lastly - please don't forget to take gentle care of yourself through all of us. Sending you and your family much love.

 

[WillenFan21]

I took some time to think about this question because I've never really stopped to think about it.

I've typed this out a few times and then deleted it because I don't really like talking about myself... But here it goes. Mods, this is clearly a "me" post so it won't hurt my feelings if you delete this.

It's been 20 days since Lucas was found, but every one of those days has blended together into one long day (I had to get out the calendar and count how many days it had been because it only feels like maybe a week or so). Actually the entire last four (?) months have blended together, too.

Our lives have been almost nothing but Lucas for so long. I prepared my mind for a very long haul... for him to be found, then a trial, etc. Now that Emily is dead, the end of the tunnel is coming much faster than I had prepared for. So I'm dealing with those emotions. I'm not prepared to heal yet. Keeping these emotions raw keeps Lucas at the front of my heart and mind.

I haven't showered in several days. The house is a mess. I'm starting to hit the end of my rope with people elsewhere and I've been a bit... sassy.

But I'll be ok. I'll heal. I'll find my path to help Lucas change the world.

My son and I are both in therapy. We don't talk about Lucas yet, but we know we can when we're ready.

After writing all of that, I really need to say that I worry far more about Jamie and the rest of the family. They're not ok and I want so badly to take away this pain for them.

ETA: My husband is telling me I showered yesterday.

I'm so sorry for all you are going through, Bethany. None of this your fault or anyone elses but JH, EG, and the system that failed Lucas. My thoughts and prayers go out to your family. <3

 

[margarita25]

I've got 2 words: "violent household". History shows this.

 

[Amonet]

LE isn't powerless in this type of situation though. Why couldn't LE have called DCF right then and there for emergency protective custody? If Lucas was covered in bruises, about to be sent off with a woman who has previous and/or current allegations/issues with her own children, how would that not warrant an emergency response?



http://assembly.state.ny.us/comm/Children/20140128/index.pdf

The above snippet is part of NY's policies. Does KS not have similar protocols? Or did the responding LE officers just not care enough to do something?

I would like an official review of LE's decisions that day. To my mind the officers aren't doctors, but they could have told the family to keep Lucas inside and not hand him over until LE have checked out the situation. An officer could have carried Lucas out of the house and (accompanied by Jamie or another relative) put Lucas in the back of a police car and driven him to ER to be checked out by a professional. The hospital could have got an abuse specialist look over Lucas, they could have got a child psychologist to talk to Lucas about how the bruises happened. LE could have coordinated with other LE in EG's area and JH's current area to talk to each of them. If the medics felt it was warranted, LE could have got an emergency restraining order to prevent Lucas going back to EG until thorough checks had been done. A CINC case surely could have been started at that time.

This seems to harken back to the old days when LE didn't want to get involved in DV disputes. I presume LE is on that list of mandated reporters (for child abuse). I think from what I'm hearing, a major error was made that day, and there should, imho, be an inquiry because we're talking about a child, and although it might have been months or a year later, that child was sent back into a life-threatening situation that would end up taking his life. To me, that's not about fault or blame, it's about what went wrong and what can be changed for the future.

 

[Busylady]

If you are not covering something up you would have no concern about your child being taken to the ER. Big red flag right there for me.

DCF can only do so much, yes the system is flawed big time but we do not know what Lucas actually told DCF workers. They were called twice and if they went to the home and it was clean, food in the house and Lucas did not tell them someone was hurting him then there really isn't much they can do. They cannot pull a child from the home based on what someone tells them. We know this is not the case in this situation but how many times is DCF called as a tool to get back at a parent etc. The system needs to be overhauled no question about that, but I don't think removing a child is as easy as we would like it to be.

 

[Squirrel85]

We know she killed Lucas.
And then she killed herself because she did not want to go to jail.
But imagine if the cause of death cant be determined because he was out in the elements too long.
She wasn't so smart after all.

Traces of chemicals can still be found in hair, liver, kidney, nails, etc; I have heard of bodies being exhumed from the grave for toxicology to be done. I think they will also run a toxicology on Emily, to see if she was using drugs on the day of suicide.

A Turkish President Died 19 Years Ago. How Was His Body Just Autopsied?

Decomposed Body | Forensic Pathology Online

Toxicology: How It’s Done

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t09/i1/jalt09i1p11.pdf

Forensic Autopsy--A Body of Clues

"Live from the Coroner's Office": Intro to toxicology testing <----- This one states they can even take fluid from the eyeball for testing.

Entomotoxicology - Wikipedia

 

[kkdj]

The police were called and they refused to look at him. Jonathan caught wind that he was covered in bruises and Emily was being blamed so he sent Emily to pick him up before he could be taken to the ER.

I will personally live the rest of my life regretting not doing more. And I deserve to live with this guilt. Because I failed him. He needed me and I failed him. So, yes, "hindsight" I guess.

Emily was being blamed so he sent Emily to pick him up? WTH?

 

[kkdj]

We know she killed Lucas.
And then she killed herself because she did not want to go to jail.
But imagine if the cause of death cant be determined because he was out in the elements to long.
She wasnt so smart after all.

BBM
I'm not convinced of this.

 

[Seattle1]

The outrage and disbelief of what happened to beautiful Lucas Hernandez has resulted in more than 30 threads of posts by very empathetic individuals, and I believe he will always be our Angel.

I have to confess however that as many times as I've read and shared the April 13, 2018 Wichita News account on the horrific details of abuse centering around EG, it was not until knowing that she was no longer free and among us that I could re-read the published timeline and truly focus on the cause, effect, and possible prevention of future harm to other minor children.

First of all, Lucas bruises and injuries were twice reported to the State by both family and School --and acted upon (even if not to my liking). Please don't blame yourselves FLA. More importantly, I personally want to recognize that healthy people do not beat and/or abuse children and leave their lifeless bodies under a bridge to rot. They also don't kill themselves versus standing accountable for their actions.

In honor of beautiful Lucas, I'm taking some time to educate myself on bipolar disorder and violence, and have already learned a lot including:

People who are in a strong dysphoric manic episode can be dangerous, aggressive and violent;

Bipolar disorder is an episodic illness. They have all of the symptoms while in a mood swing. This means they are STABLE when they are not in a mood swing. If you have bipolar disorder one, there is a 70% chance of full on psychosis when you are in a full blown manic episode (BBM).

People, both men and women who are mild mannered and kind when well, get super human strength along with the aggression- ripping a sink out of the wall- punching through windows- throwing chairs and other dangerous behavior are not uncommon.

Families and partners suffer in silence because they are scared to tell anyone about what really goes on at home. BBM

Like so many mental illnesses, side effects of Rx treatment to prevent and/or manage episodes are widely considered intolerable making it easier to turn to illicit drugs.

The inheritance pattern of bipolar disorder is unclear. ... Many individuals with bipolar disorder have relatives with other mood, anxiety, and psychotic disorders (such as depression or schizophrenia). These disorders may run in families in part because they share some genetic risk factors with bipolar disorder.

IMO, we learned from EG that manic rage does not discriminate -- she was obviously unfit/violent to both her biological and step children. IMO, JH knew or should have known better than to leave his minor children alone with EG given his extended absences. So where was JH backup plan?

Lastly, if you know of or suspect somebody of cycling into a manic episode ( lasting hours to weeks), please consider offering to take their children out of their home if only for a day/weekend.

If just 1% of posters take a quick look at the linked warnings to recognize, and/or prevent and manage violence in a bipolar person, we may just save a vulnerable child from harm. Thanks for reading.

7 Steps to Prevent and Manage Violence in Bipolar Patients | Psychiatric Times
Three Bipolar Disorder Symptoms No One Wants to Talk About | bpHope
Bipolar disorder
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

 

[castilloisno1]

People who are in a strong dysphoric manic episode can be dangerous, aggressive and violent;

Bipolar disorder is an episodic illness. They have all of the symptoms while in a mood swing. This means they are STABLE when they are not in a mood swing. If you have bipolar disorder one, there is a 70% chance of full on psychosis when you are in a full blown manic episode (BBM).

People, both men and women who are mild mannered and kind when well, get super human strength along with the aggression- ripping a sink out of the wall- punching through windows- throwing chairs and other dangerous behavior are not uncommon.

Families and partners suffer in silence because they are scared to tell anyone about what really goes on at home.

Like so many mental illnesses, side effects of Rx treatment to prevent and/or manage episodes are widely considered intolerable making it easier to turn to illicit drugs.

The inheritance pattern of bipolar disorder is unclear. ... Many individuals with bipolar disorder have relatives with other mood, anxiety, and psychotic disorders (such as depression or schizophrenia). These disorders may run in families in part because they share some genetic risk factors with bipolar disorder.

IMO, we learned from EG that manic rage does not discriminate -- she was obviously unfit/violent to both her biological and step children. IMO, JH knew or should have known better than to leave his minor children alone with EG given his extended absences. So where was JH backup plan?

Lastly, if you know of or suspect somebody of cycling into a manic episode ( lasting hours to weeks), please consider offering to take their children out of their home if only for a day/weekend.

If just 1% of posters take a quick look at the attached warnings to recognize, and/or prevent and manage violence in a bipolar person, we may just save a vulnerable child from harm. Thanks for reading.

7 Steps to Prevent and Manage Violence in Bipolar Patients | Psychiatric Times
Three Bipolar Disorder Symptoms No One Wants to Talk About | bpHope
Bipolar disorder
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

thanks..... I lived with someone like this.... This individual tried to stab my elderly mom with scissors( I grabbed them off of her)and unfortunately one of my sibling still caters to the bi-polar sibling even though she attacked him so much that it put him into a catatonic state....I choose to have very limited contact..Emily had drugs in her system,plus this disorder...she was a keg of dynamite that once her fuse was lit,she "did Lucas so wrong"...I have no sympathy for her as she could have gone for anger management etc

I really am concerned that LE will want to sweep this whole thing under a rug once the memorial service is done and they feel the public sentiment for Lucas will just fade away....

 

[WildcatRunner]

The outrage and disbelief of what happened to beautiful Lucas Hernandez has resulted in more than 30 threads of posts by very empathetic individuals, and I believe he will always be our Angel.

I have to confess however that as many times as I've read and shared the April 13, 2018 Wichita News account on the horrific details of abuse centering around EG, it was not until knowing that she was no longer free and among us that I could re-read the published timeline and truly focus on the cause, effect, and possible prevention of future harm to other minor children.

First of all, Lucas bruises and injuries were twice reported to the State by both family and School --and acted upon (even if not to my liking). Please don't blame yourselves FLA. More importantly, I personally want to recognize that healthy people do not beat and/or abuse children and leave their lifeless bodies under a bridge to rot. They also don't kill themselves versus standing accountable for their actions.

In honor of beautiful Lucas, I'm taking some time to educate myself on bipolar disorder and violence, and have already learned a lot including:

People who are in a strong dysphoric manic episode can be dangerous, aggressive and violent;

Bipolar disorder is an episodic illness. They have all of the symptoms while in a mood swing. This means they are STABLE when they are not in a mood swing. If you have bipolar disorder one, there is a 70% chance of full on psychosis when you are in a full blown manic episode (BBM).

People, both men and women who are mild mannered and kind when well, get super human strength along with the aggression- ripping a sink out of the wall- punching through windows- throwing chairs and other dangerous behavior are not uncommon.

Families and partners suffer in silence because they are scared to tell anyone about what really goes on at home. BBM

Like so many mental illnesses, side effects of Rx treatment to prevent and/or manage episodes are widely considered intolerable making it easier to turn to illicit drugs.

The inheritance pattern of bipolar disorder is unclear. ... Many individuals with bipolar disorder have relatives with other mood, anxiety, and psychotic disorders (such as depression or schizophrenia). These disorders may run in families in part because they share some genetic risk factors with bipolar disorder.

IMO, we learned from EG that manic rage does not discriminate -- she was obviously unfit/violent to both her biological and step children. IMO, JH knew or should have known better than to leave his minor children alone with EG given his extended absences. So where was JH backup plan?

Lastly, if you know of or suspect somebody of cycling into a manic episode ( lasting hours to weeks), please consider offering to take their children out of their home if only for a day/weekend.

If just 1% of posters take a quick look at the linked warnings to recognize, and/or prevent and manage violence in a bipolar person, we may just save a vulnerable child from harm. Thanks for reading.

7 Steps to Prevent and Manage Violence in Bipolar Patients | Psychiatric Times
Three Bipolar Disorder Symptoms No One Wants to Talk About | bpHope
Bipolar disorder
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

I have yet to believe she had BPD, or any other mental health issue. I think that's probably her excuse to her ex (the only person we've heard state she had BPD), to cover up her erratic meth fueled behavior because having a health condition is much more sympathetic than being a drug user.

 

[Squirrel85]

The outrage and disbelief of what happened to beautiful Lucas Hernandez has resulted in more than 30 threads of posts by very empathetic individuals, and I believe he will always be our Angel.

I have to confess however that as many times as I've read and shared the April 13, 2018, Wichita News account on the horrific details of abuse centering around EG, it was not until knowing that she was no longer free and among us that I could re-read the published timeline and truly focus on the cause, effect, and possible prevention of future harm to other minor children.

First of all, Lucas bruises and injuries were twice reported to the State by both family and School --and acted upon (even if not to my liking). Please don't blame yourselves FLA. More importantly, I personally want to recognize that healthy people do not beat and/or abuse children and leave their lifeless bodies under a bridge to rot. They also don't kill themselves versus standing accountable for their actions.

In honor of beautiful Lucas, I'm taking some time to educate myself on bipolar disorder and violence, and have already learned a lot including:

People who are in a strong dysphoric manic episode can be dangerous, aggressive and violent;

Bipolar disorder is an episodic illness. They have all of the symptoms while in a mood swing. This means they are STABLE when they are not in a mood swing. If you have bipolar disorder one, there is a 70% chance of full on psychosis when you are in a full-blown manic episode (BBM).

People, both men and women who are mild mannered and kind when well, get super human strength along with the aggression- ripping a sink out of the wall- punching through windows- throwing chairs and other dangerous behavior are not uncommon.

Families and partners suffer in silence because they are scared to tell anyone about what really goes on at home. BBM

Like so many mental illnesses, side effects of Rx treatment to prevent and/or manage episodes are widely considered intolerable making it easier to turn to illicit drugs.

The inheritance pattern of bipolar disorder is unclear. ... Many individuals with bipolar disorder have relatives with other mood, anxiety, and psychotic disorders (such as depression or schizophrenia). These disorders may run in families in part because they share some genetic risk factors with bipolar disorder.

IMO, we learned from EG that manic rage does not discriminate -- she was obviously unfit/violent to both her biological and step children. IMO, JH knew or should have known better than to leave his minor children alone with EG given his extended absences. So where was JH backup plan?

Lastly, if you know of or suspect somebody of cycling into a manic episode ( lasting hours to weeks), please consider offering to take their children out of their home if only for a day/weekend.

If just 1% of posters take a quick look at the linked warnings to recognize, and/or prevent and manage violence in a bipolar person, we may just save a vulnerable child from harm. Thanks for reading.

7 Steps to Prevent and Manage Violence in Bipolar Patients | Psychiatric Times
Three Bipolar Disorder Symptoms No One Wants to Talk About | bpHope
Bipolar disorder
Horrific new details emerge in court document about missing 5-year-old Lucas Hernandez

<mod snip argumentative >
Do we know the mental illness, that Emily was suffering from... besides, narcissistic personality disorder, and some form of psychopathic personality disorder, and being an addict.

I am wondering if Emily had ever gotten a break from being a stay-at-home person? (Not going to use the word parent). I know that being a stay-at-home person causes people to develop depression and anxiety. Raising kids, and pretty much raising them alone, puts a toll on a person's psyche.

The Best Music, Movies, TV, Books, Games, Beer & More | Paste

Why I Hated Being a Stay-at-Home Mom | HuffPost

What It’s Like To Be A Stay-At-Home Mom On The Verge Of Depression

 

[Seattle1]

I have yet to believe she had BPD, or any other mental health issue. I think that's probably her excuse to her ex (the only person we've heard state she had BPD), to cover up her erratic meth fueled behavior because having a health condition is much more sympathetic than being a drug user.

She could be plain evil, period. The BPD I reference was actually cited in 7 page court document that was sealed after last hearing (for a juvenile).

 

[DakotaMayi]

My guess is someone other than LE broke the news to the media before LE had a chance. That's what happens in this world of instant news, scanners, twitter etc. Sucks

Yes. Nothing is sacred anymore.

 

[DakotaMayi]

BBM
I'm not convinced of this.

Really? You're not? Can you elaborate kkdj? Or did your next post refer to this?

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Emily was being blamed so he sent Emily to pick him up? WTH?

I took some time to think about this question because I've never really stopped to think about it.

I've typed this out a few times and then deleted it because I don't really like talking about myself... But here it goes. Mods, this is clearly a "me" post so it won't hurt my feelings if you delete this.

It's been 20 days since Lucas was found, but every one of those days has blended together into one long day (I had to get out the calendar and count how many days it had been because it only feels like maybe a week or so). Actually the entire last four (?) months have blended together, too.

Our lives have been almost nothing but Lucas for so long. I prepared my mind for a very long haul... for him to be found, then a trial, etc. Now that Emily is dead, the end of the tunnel is coming much faster than I had prepared for. So I'm dealing with those emotions. I'm not prepared to heal yet. Keeping these emotions raw keeps Lucas at the front of my heart and mind.

I haven't showered in several days. The house is a mess. I'm starting to hit the end of my rope with people elsewhere and I've been a bit... sassy.

But I'll be ok. I'll heal. I'll find my path to help Lucas change the world.

My son and I are both in therapy. We don't talk about Lucas yet, but we know we can when we're ready.

After writing all of that, I really need to say that I worry far more about Jamie and the rest of the family. They're not ok and I want so badly to take away this pain for them.

ETA: My husband is telling me I showered yesterday.

I can't imagine how hard this is for you. I feel like I got hole ripped through my soul. I doubt there are words to describe how magnified it is for you,and all who loved and did all you could do for Sweet Little Lucas.
I can only keep you in my thoughts,and prayers,and send warm vibes.

 

[kkdj]

I have yet to believe she had BPD, or any other mental health issue. I think that's probably her excuse to her ex (the only person we've heard state she had BPD), to cover up her erratic meth fueled behavior because having a health condition is much more sympathetic than being a drug user.

I'm leaning this way....that she told her ex she was bipolar so he didn't think it was once again drugs, which the court forgave her past usage and stated if she did drugs again it was a clear indication she didn't want to parent.
Well guess what! She did drugs again and clearly indicated she didn't want to parent! Now we have a dead child! Thank goodness it wasn't more.
She might also have been bipolar, idk. But I doubt it was diagnosed or treated. I have more of a sense she was borderline personality disorder. They can be extremely dangerous.

 

[kkdj]

Really? You're not? Can you elaborate kkdj? Or did your next post refer to this?

I wonder, with her personality disorders, if she did this to get at JH deeper.