oceanblueeyes
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Well I am glad that at least the Judge in this case is listening and knows the testimony better than the DT.
IMO
GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #2
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Well I am glad that at least the Judge in this case is listening and knows the testimony better than the DT.
IMO
oceanblueeyes
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Yes, that is what he is aiming for.........he is trying to muddy up the trial so the jury will be hoodwinked into letting JY go free. Then JG will probably have his own attorney file an appeal saying he perjured himself to save his son and really didn't kill Trey knowing JY cant be tried again.
I saw a ME last night on tv who had the nerve to tell viewers that JY at 15 wouldn't have enough strength to kill Trey with a baseball bat. :banghead: I cant stand these THs that don't know what they are talking about yet spout off like they do. It was probably that quirky weird doctor on DDs show. I cant remember now.
But here is just one case where it has happened and there are more cases where young teens have murdered larger people using a baseball bat. It is used as an equalizer when the perp is smaller than the victim. I.e. Josh Young (smaller-Trey-larger.) JG wouldn't have needed an equalizer since he was larger than Trey and a hell of a lot tougher.
A 13-year-old boy who killed another teen with a baseball bat after a Pony League game was ordered Thursday to a youth detention center until he turns 25.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-712628.html
This thirteen year old boy was much smaller than the 15 year old he murdered.
I look at these people, the family members, the friends, fellow prisoners, and my God, what kind of people are these? Children raised (or I guess, not raised) in these homes don't stand a chance. I'm sure big Josh was raised just like his son, and Angela's children, have seen more crime in their short lives than I will ever see.
Is it an excuse for killing another child? No.
Do I think any thing has been proven against little Josh, not really. At this point, if I was on the jury, I'd let him go. I might live to regret it, but I would.
Another thing, do any of these people work? I heard that Angela worked at McD's, but that is probably only since she has lost all her children, and lost her gov't check. I would bet everyone involved, is on public assistance. We are really getting our moneys worth.
Is it an excuse for killing another child? No.
Do I think any thing has been proven against little Josh, not really. At this point, if I was on the jury, I'd let him go. I might live to regret it, but I would.
Another thing, do any of these people work? I heard that Angela worked at McD's, but that is probably only since she has lost all her children, and lost her gov't check. I would bet everyone involved, is on public assistance. We are really getting our moneys worth.
I disagree that nothing has been proven against Little Josh. If you take all the different witnesses' together, as well as the other evidence, I think it points a strong case to him. He did it, the problem is like you said is there gonna be enough evidence to outweigh reasonable doubt....
katydid23
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I came into this case thinking that JY was innocent and being blamed by his father. But as the facts slowly come to light, I am leaning another way. I am now thinking that JY was the one who lured the victim to the ditch, and he was the one who attacked the poor kid, and brutally beat him. Then he ran to Cassy's to rid himself of the damning evidence. And when his monstrous father found out, he set his own plan in motion, to try and cover for him. JMO
Omigosh, I totally did not think about the shirt! You're right...he was wearing the same shirt...now how could that be when he said he got back to Cassie's after he supposedly did the murder....does he think people will believe he somehow washed the shirt after his shower, and put the same shirt back on!
But if you look at the evidence and testimony, it strongly points to the fact that Gouker didn't do it.
I keep trying to see both sides of this. My only problem is, I can't imagine big Josh taking the blame for anyone.
Can someone explain to me the whole thing with Gouker's arrest in Alabama? So I know he was arrested for kidnapping that lady....but if he knew the police didn't have murder weapon and they didn't have confessions yet from Cassie, Angelique, etc.. about Little Josh or Big Josh's involvement in the murder...then why did he call Det. Russ and offer the information about the murder?
Also, why did they decide to leave town on or around June 10, already a month after the murder, where it seems to be that the police didn't really have any information or leads at that point? That would just make them look more like suspects if they ran away.
It seems to me like the people, Cassie, Angelique, Jahaira, John, and the grandmother were not gonna tell the police anything. For example, if Gouker hadn't given them "permission," they would have kept the info to themselves and not told the detectives. They only told after Gouker told Russ, so why did Gouker offer the information?
Also, why did they decide to leave town on or around June 10, already a month after the murder, where it seems to be that the police didn't really have any information or leads at that point? That would just make them look more like suspects if they ran away.
It seems to me like the people, Cassie, Angelique, Jahaira, John, and the grandmother were not gonna tell the police anything. For example, if Gouker hadn't given them "permission," they would have kept the info to themselves and not told the detectives. They only told after Gouker told Russ, so why did Gouker offer the information?
I don't know...I would think they would have things in place to prevent that, but not sure....
oceanblueeyes
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What really may wind up happening here will be a great injustice for Trey. Trey is the only one that matters to me in this case. I firmly do believe Josh Young, acted alone, and murdered Trey.
The travesty will be if the jurors do just like Josh Gouker is expecting them to do by believing he is the one who did this when there is absolutely nothing presented during this trial tying him to this crime. Even his reasons for murdering Trey are stupid and as outlandish as the rest of his puffy over embellished gangsta style stories that he makes up in that manipulative head of his.
He sure thinks they are going to buy what he is selling. Will they? Well if they just look at him and hate him enough they will let his killer son go. He knows that. He is no novice. So he will win again and will boast that he can even control jurors. His ego once again will be puffed up. Yeah, he will be da man that was able to pull the wool over the eyes of everyone including JYs jurors.
Or they will closely go over the evidence noting that he still had on the same shirt on from when he was in the store at 1 am or that McKenzie saw Trey leave but Gouker never came down to sit on the couch that night. Or noting that he wanted to go to the crime scene to look at his body. Why? Imo, because he was scoping things out in case he had to come up with a good story he needed about the murder. Or the fact that he said he has lied the entire time.
But Josh Young slept downstairs at Cassies and could have easily slipped out into the night to murder Trey and snuck back in and then woke Cassie up. Josh and Trey were about the same age. Would Trey go off in the dark woods with JG only? Imo, not in a million years.
So this teen that has presented himself as a geeky nerdy little guy may very well walk the streets. If everything goes as JG has planned then his son will walk.
And if he does I can see JG laughing his arse off and holding an interview and admitting he wasn't the one that killed Trey after all. He is that diabolical. He will just laugh that sickening laugh and say 'well I told the court that I have lied about everything.'
IMO
bettybaby00
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Thank you for the timeline, very helpful!
But whoa....on HLN, Jean C was saying that although it appears that JY did commit the murder, based on TOD, b/c he's not charged with murder, technically they jury could acquit???
Any lawyers here that could chime in??? And if they did acquit as mentioned above, does double jeopardy apply...
Lord help us!
minor4th
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If he's acquitted of complicity then he cannot later be tried for murder.
minor4th
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I didn't see anything about time of death -- what did you notice?
minor4th
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Here's a pic of Gouker wearing the red jersey at Circle K and the next day at crime scene:
https://www.facebook.com/HLNAfterDark/posts/420665061384030
This is what clenched it for me that Gouker was not there and Josh Young was the killer.
https://www.facebook.com/HLNAfterDark/posts/420665061384030
This is what clenched it for me that Gouker was not there and Josh Young was the killer.
bettybaby00
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Thank you
I didn't read the autopsy report, but HLN was commenting about the time of trey's last meal, and amount of digestion when trey was killed, it put TOD around 10/11ish, hours before the 1:00am time when murder was supposed to have taken place. Idk how/when the 1am time frame was originally established???
I know....I don't understand that....it's all so confusing! I'm wondering why did the prosecution not charge JY with the original murder...and JG with complicity to murder?? Or were they forced to do that after JG "confessed" to the murder?
So confusing....
Cappuccino
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Thank you
I didn't read the autopsy report, but HLN was commenting about the time of trey's last meal, and amount of digestion when trey was killed, it put TOD around 10/11ish, hours before the 1:00am time when murder was supposed to have taken place. Idk how/when the 1am time frame was originally established???
If the time of death was that early then JG could be guilty, because he could have changed into the red shirt after killing Trey.
bbm
Did you hear the defense guy Shuler...after the jury left and they were doing hearing or whatever it is in front of the judge...he basically said Makenzie was lying. It sounded to me like he was saying Kenzie was coached to say it...that she couldn't remember other things, but yet she could remember the date (May 10 or 11).
But it doesn't even matter to me whether she was lying or not...Gouker has other people who saw him...like going back and forth to Cassie's, going to Circle K, Amanda, wearing same clothes...and it seems like Young just disappears.
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