Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

[Karmady]

Hi Karmady, Xcellent point about the location of the farm where Dede was working that morning.

Wasn't there someone's car seen driving at Germnantown Rd and Skyline the morning he disappeared? A white truck? I have driven up there. Where those roads cross are huge fields. Is there access from that intersection, or close to it going down the hill towards Hwy #30 that leads to the Sauvie Island bridge? I'm going to have to review, but remember there was a sighting of a white truck with a redhead driving that a man saw on that Hwy as he headed towards Portland. He saw her enter Hwy 30 from a road that I can't pull out the name of now, but thought I thought that road went up to Skyl.ine, Also that sighting was timely as per the time of Kyron's disappearance as I remember.

Do you or anyone remember that? It could be if the searchers found evidence by Germantown Rd and Skyline it could be something thrown out of a car. Hmmm, possibilities abound.


I am so THANKFUL for these searches. As Human stated, I also wonder what could exist in a field 3 years after the fact, something recognizable to Desiree or the searchers that could be connected to his disappearance?

One other thing is I'm concerned that Desiree stated they might have found possible evidence. Would LE want that info out there? Could Desiree want to get the perp scared they might have found something linking to them???



PS: If I need any links to this info let me know and I'll go dig them up. xox

~bbm

I think you're referring to Cornelius Pass. Which also is one of the Roads cited in the article linked in your second post. I don't know how far Cornelius Pass/Skyline is from Germantown/Skyline, but I bet it's not very far. Going to look.

eta: I looked and the intersections of Corn Pass/Germantown, Germantown/Skyline and Corn Pass/Skyline actually make a fairly small triangle. I'd bring the map, but I stink at that!

 

[gitana1]

Does not want medical records looked at

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20439180,00.html

Hey thank you so much for these links. It was a good refresher course on this case.

You know on some level my mind/heart wants it to make sense because that would mean he's alive. On the other hand... he was really old for a child that might have been kidnapped to integrate into a new 'normal' looking family. He can talk. He can tell everyone who took him. He can point fingers and testify. He can describe who/what/when/where/how. I think usually this happens with babies and tiny kids who won't remember their real parents at inopportune moments.

It seems like the older kids are usually taken for less nuclear-family-related reasons. Yes, they can be housed, but it's not to 'replace the lost son' or make up for infertility. More like deranged people hold them to abuse them at will.

I used to think, considering the time line, that a hand-off was a likely scenario. But where would someone even start looking, besides the usual billboards and posters and international publicity? I do know - chilling as it is - that when there's a child-related bust that includes photos or videos, it's some poor soul's job to try to identify any of the children involved. So I'm sure that's a constant, and will always be in cases where the children aren't found.

I have never once thought Kyron was handed off and remained alive past that first day. However, to play devil's advocate, as someone else recalled, Steven Stayner was a child abducted at around the same age, actually was sent to school and remained abducted for 7 years.

It can happen.

I am a little unsure as to where I should be posting, so I brought this post over here:
__________________

Thanks for this info.

I'm not feeling too optimistic, unfortunately, right now. The recent confluence of events indicates to me that a lot of people were waiting with baited breath for the results of dede spicher's GJ testimony. I think it did not lead to an indictment. Hence TH felt empowered to finally try for some rights to see her daughter and Desiree felt desperate to try finding something that could lead to an arrest, hence her recent search efforts.

I feel we may be back at a standstill.

But I think if they continue searching the specific area we are all aware LE has pinpointed, and just keep doing it over and over and over again, perhaps open day they will find him.

Kyron is somewhere.

 

[Karmady]

Hey thank you so much for these links. It was a good refresher course on this case.



I have never once thought Kyron was handed off and remained alive past that first day. However, to play devil's advocate, as someone else recalled, Steven Stayner was a child abducted at around the same age, actually was sent to school and remained abducted for 7 years.

It can happen.



Thanks for this info.

I'm not feeling too optimistic, unfortunately, right now. The recent confluence of events indicates to me that a lot of people were waiting with baited breath for the results of dede spicher's GJ testimony. I think it did not lead to an indictment. Hence TH felt empowered to finally try for some rights to see her daughter and Desiree felt desperate to try finding something that could lead to an arrest, hence her recent search efforts.

I feel we may be back at a standstill.

But I think if they continue searching the specific area we are all aware LE has pinpointed, and just keep doing it over and over and over again, perhaps open day they will find him.

Kyron is somewhere.

~bbm

I agree that this is the most logical conclusion, unfortunately. It does make the most sense when you take the custody proceedings into account. jmo

 

[scandi]

~bbm

I think you're referring to Cornelius Pass. Which also is one of the Roads cited in the article linked in your second post. I don't know how far Cornelius Pass/Skyline is from Germantown/Skyline, but I bet it's not very far. Going to look.

eta: I looked and the intersections of Corn Pass/Germantown, Germantown/Skyline and Corn Pass/Skyline actually make a fairly small triangle. I'd bring the map, but I stink at that!

I'm looking for a link I can post here to the man named 'Chas' {who saw the white truck with a red headed driver he later recognized as TH} turn off Logie Trail Rd onto Hwy 30. I'll look too and think these roads are very close together.

 

[Karmady]

I'm looking for a link I can post here to the man named 'Chas' {who saw the white truck with a red headed driver he later recognized as TH} turn off Logie Trail Rd onto Hwy 30. I'll look too and think these roads are very close together.

oh, you're right! When I first searched I was thinking something with a trail, but when I found cornelius pass I thought I'd confused trail with pass. My bad!

 

[scandi]

oh, you're right! When I first searched I was thinking something with a trail, but when I found cornelius pass I thought I'd confused trail with pass. My bad!

No problemo Karmady, I have forgotton sooooo much which is amazing after living this case 24/7.

I'm having trouble posting that dern map!

 

[Karmady]

No problemo Karmady, I have forgotton sooooo much which is amazing after living this case 24/7.

I'm having trouble posting that dern map!

I can't find a current msm link, but I did find this post in an old thread here quoting from the original msm link -- which is now unavailable.

____

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopula...5FG4Q.cspx?p=8

Also Sunday, a man who asked not to be shown on camera, expressed his frustration about the Kyron Horman tipline.

“Chas” said he has called the tip line twice, but hadn’t heard back. He was concerned other people’s tips, like his, were not checked on.

Chas said he saw Terri Horman the day Kyron mysteriously vanished.

“I was on my way to work, driving down Highway 30,” said “Chas.”

It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. “Chas” was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road.

"It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.”

Logie Trail Road is right across from Sauvie Island. One of the areas investigators have searched several times.

"I recognize that truck because I have a friend that has a similar truck and I thought it was him.”

But when “Chas” pulled up next to this truck, he saw that it wasn't his friend, it was a red-haired woman, he didn't recognize.

He later realized that “red-haired” woman was Terri Horman.

“I didn't really think anything of it, obviously at that time there was no reason to.”

“Chas” said he's been following Kyron's disappearance since day 1, and when police released the flier asking the public to come forward with any information if they had seen Terri Horman or the white truck the day Kyron disappeared. That's when “Chas” remembered back to June 4th and called the tip line.

“The next day, I called again, and gave a little bit more detailed information because in the back of my mind I was thinking maybe I didn't give enough information."

Now 10 days later, “Chas” was left feeling a little frustrated.

 

[scandi]

I can't find a current msm link, but I did find this post in an old thread here quoting from the original msm link -- which is now unavailable.

{Snipped above link}

Thanks Karmady. That was one of those 'keeper' links. I've given up on Google Maps.


To generalize since I have no map, Skyline and Germantown intersect, Skyline and Logie Trail Rd intersect and Logie Trail
Rd intersects with Hwy #30. All doable, which is why if she was spotted at the intersection of Germantown and Skyline , then at Logie Trail and the Hwy, it shows her path of travel. That could have led to Sauvie Island where LE did allot of searching.

 

[believe09]

Then again, we want Teri to surface right? To be out in the open, moving about for her day to day, getting comfortable coming back to her life, right?

It would be interesting to see what three years dodging the world has done for her. I have a philosophy regarding people in her position and people who are the kind of person she appears to be. JMVHO, but she doesnt seem to have much control when she is left to her own devices. The last 3 years have been about saving her neck, so to speak. Give her enough room to recover herself to a degree....who knows what will happen. Look at Casey Anthony-she found herself web chatting and deep into social media as well as back to the bar scene.

In Terri's case, she may feel much more comfortable shutting the world out at this stage of the game. What do you suppose she tells herself when she thinks back to those days?

 

[scandi]

Hi, Just got back from my drive up to Skyline Blvd and got a bit of a different feeling than the last time I was up there.

First, as I'm going over the St John's Bridge I hear a newscast where Kyron was mentioned. It said there were about 60 searchers this weekend and they concentrated in a heavily forested area not far from the school. Also they said LE had been given several things found by the searchers and they were now being examined.

So I turned off Hwy #30 onto Logie Trail Rd by that little lake and headed up the hill. What a drive, with lots of winding curves and tight turns with the edge of the road often at a breaking point, where the land fell sharply down and away. I swore I would not go back down that road as it was quite dangerous IMO.

In fact I thought to myself how unlikely it would be that someone in a frazzled state like the killer might have been could negotiate those turns and sharp curves going down the hill to Hwy #30. I guess the only way would be if they knew the road like the back of their hand,

The school looked different, darker in color and set further back from the road - just not as visible as it had been before. They must have painted it with some muted colors to make it less obvious from all the lookers who drive by.

Then I started looking at forested areas close to the school and there are so many. I did notice on Quarry Rd there was a huge groves of big trees. And when I left the area going down Cornelius Rd I passed Sheltered Nook Dr and it seemed to be nestled in between lots and lots of huge firs.

It was good to get a new visual to study the case by, remembering the days are darker now and everything has had a 3 year period of growth.

 

[Karmady]

Hi, Just got back from my drive up to Skyline Blvd and got a bit of a different feeling than the last time I was up there.

First, as I'm going over the St John's Bridge I hear a newscast where Kyron was mentioned. It said there were about 60 searchers this weekend and they concentrated in a heavily forested area not far from the school. Also they said LE had been given several things found by the searchers and they were now being examined.

So I turned off Hwy #30 onto Logie Trail Rd by that little lake and headed up the hill. What a drive, with lots of winding curves and tight turns with the edge of the road often at a breaking point, where the land fell sharply down and away. I swore I would not go back down that road as it was quite dangerous IMO.

In fact I thought to myself how unlikely it would be that someone in a frazzled state like the killer might have been could negotiate those turns and sharp curves going down the hill to Hwy #30. I guess the only way would be if they knew the road like the back of their hand,

The school looked different, darker in color and set further back from the road - just not as visible as it had been before. They must have painted it with some muted colors to make it less obvious from all the lookers who drive by.

Then I started looking at forested areas close to the school and there are so many. I did notice on Quarry Rd there was a huge groves of big trees. And when I left the area going down Cornelius Rd I passed Sheltered Nook Dr and it seemed to be nestled in between lots and lots of huge firs.

It was good to get a new visual to study the case by, remembering the days are darker now and everything has had a 3 year period of growth.

wish I were local. Thanks for sharing. One thing I noticed when looking at the Chas post from the old thread was that he mentioned her pulling out from a road north of Logie trail. On google maps there were two roads that you can't "travel" on from google maps just north of logie trail. I think one was king and the other was morgan (?). Is it possible that it was one of those roads and not logie trail?

 

[scandi]

wish I were local. Thanks for sharing. One thing I noticed when looking at the Chas post from the old thread was that he mentioned her pulling out from a road north of Logie trail. On google maps there were two roads that you can't "travel" on from google maps just north of logie trail. I think one was king and the other was morgan (?). Is it possible that it was one of those roads and not logie trail?

Yes, could be. I didn't have my bearing on direction. But I saw a road on the other side of the little lake and knew I had been on it before when scouting around. It was a residential area with many houses so I didn't go back in again. I will look on a map and see if that area connects to a rd that goes up to Skyline - see if I can find it.


Also a correction on my last post. The news gal actually said they searched a heavily forested area by the Skyline school which was close to Skyline and Germantown Rd. I found that a bit odd as driving out there the school isn't real close to Germantown Rd.

It is Morgan Rd that meets Hwy #30 in the other side of Rainbow Lake. It looks like it dead ends into nothingness.

 

[mor58]

I don't know if its okay to

 

[mor58]

Team searching for Cody Haynes
Kittitas boy disappeared in 2004
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Brian Myrick
Cody Haynes search
A private search team, that uses dogs to find human remains, meets family members in front of the former home of Cody Haynes, Tuesday, June 4, 2013. (Brian Myrick / Daily Record)
Buy this photo






http://www.dailyrecordnews.com/payw...cle_c51233c2-cd3a-11e2-974b-0019bb2963f4.html

Posted: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 10:00 am
By ANDY MATARRESE staff writer | 0 comments
A private investigation firm and a team of search dogs will comb parts of Kittitas County and elsewhere this week as part of ongoing efforts to find Richard “Cody” Haynes, a Kittitas boy who was 11 when he went missing in September 2004.
Lisa Doney, Haynes’ mother, hired Los Angeles-based ISC Investigations to continue search efforts, and the family also raised money to bring in a team of search dogs from New Mexico for the week.
The week Cody disappeared, he had an altercation with his stepmother, Marla Harding-Haynes, after which he was made to sit at a table then go to his room. Cody was to stay in his bedroom all the next day and not have contact with the rest of his family. He was not seen again.
The lead investigator with ISC Investigations said the group has been starting at Cody’s former residence in Kittitas then fanning out based on the firm’s tips and research.

 

[mor58]

I'm sorry not sure if I posted this correctly but this is the same K 9 team that helped search

I sure hope they are not giving false hope.

 

[MissJ]

My problem with TDI is I don't see her as a criminal mastermind who had the time to pull it off to the point Ky has never been found. I just don't see her having the kind of friends who would hurt a child for her or with her. JMO

 

[believe09]

My problem with TDI is I don't see her as a criminal mastermind who had the time to pull it off to the point Ky has never been found. I just don't see her having the kind of friends who would hurt a child for her or with her. JMO

I think the vast areas available to dump one small child make her lucky rather than a master mind. JMVHO. And I think if she, or someone, involved a friend or two, that person or those folks are involved in a crime that is incredibly heinous which makes it very difficult to come forward and confess.

I think Kyron can be found simply because it is unlikely there were masterminds involved in this case. Sure, the time line is pretty wide but as soon as his disappearance was reported, they zeroed in on her pretty quickly.

FWIW, I dont know how her supporters have gotten around her asserting her 5th amendment rights rather than being a part of her daughter's life. Now that there is no civil suit looming, she feels safe enough to try to see her? I am with Kaine-too little too late.

 

[Remove the covering]

I live about 1 hour outside of Portland, and it is hard to describe how woodsy it is in this area. We've got prolific evergreens and incredibly aggressive blackberry bushes everywhere, which would make searching very challenging.

I'd chalk up the lack of evidence found so far to luck, as well, not criminal mastermindedness.

I can't say any particular piece of evidence has made me very suspicious of TH, but it is the improbable series of coincidentally convenient events: the misunderstood doctor's appointment, borrowing a vehicle for a task she didn't complete, the overdone showing off a same-day Kyron photo in Fred Meyer, going to a second Fred Meyer, the lengthy drive with her baby. Hinky.

I've got 3 kids, and if any of them had an ear infection as a baby, I went to the doctor's office, the pharmacy, and then straight home. It is one of the few times I marched my kids directly to the doctor for antibiotics. A long drive sounds like torture with a miserable crying baby, and a drive sounds like it would rattle an aching ear. Others may disagree with me, but I'd want to be at home with all of the resources for caring for and distracting a sick child.

Did anyone determine if TH went to Fred Meyer for a prescription medication or an OTC medication? There are many many places to get OTC children's pain reliever in the NW such as Safeway, Walgreens, Walmart, etc. They all have pharmacies, too. One of the noticeable features of Fred Meyer is the obvious security camera documenting your arrival. Might be worth going to 2 locations for double certain alibi.

I'm so sorry, Kyron!

 

[Morag]

...(snip) I can't say any particular piece of evidence has made me very suspicious of TH, but it is the improbable series of coincidentally convenient events: the misunderstood doctor's appointment, borrowing a vehicle for a task she didn't complete, the overdone showing off a same-day Kyron photo in Fred Meyer, going to a second Fred Meyer, the lengthy drive with her baby. Hinky.

I've got 3 kids, and if any of them had an ear infection as a baby, I went to the doctor's office, the pharmacy, and then straight home. It is one of the few times I marched my kids directly to the doctor for antibiotics. A long drive sounds like torture with a miserable crying baby, and a drive sounds like it would rattle an aching ear. Others may disagree with me, but I'd want to be at home with all of the resources for caring for and distracting a sick child.

Did anyone determine if TH went to Fred Meyer for a prescription medication or an OTC medication? There are many many places to get OTC children's pain reliever in the NW such as Safeway, Walgreens, Walmart, etc. They all have pharmacies, too. One of the noticeable features of Fred Meyer is the obvious security camera documenting your arrival. Might be worth going to 2 locations for double certain alibi.

I'm so sorry, Kyron!

Somewhere in this vast amount of information is a quote from Kaine that the baby was teething. Symptoms are similar to those of an ear infection, but don't usually require a doctor visit. There was some discussion about the fact that at that time it was difficult to find some Tylenol products, and that TH may have had to search for the baby med which suited her daughter best.

 

[human]

Somewhere in this vast amount of information is a quote from Kaine that the baby was teething. Symptoms are similar to those of an ear infection, but don't usually require a doctor visit. There was some discussion about the fact that at that time it was difficult to find some Tylenol to products, and that TH may have had to search for the baby med which suited her daughter best.

I recall those discussions.

Some of us would take a cranky baby home . Others thought it was just fine to drive the baby around and bring her to the gym.