LA LA - Slidell, WhtFem 20-30, UP852, Breast Implants, Pregnant Jun'86

[LovinTK]

What do you all think about this match?

Joyce Walcott went missing on April 29, 1986.

http://charleyproject.org/cases/w/walcott_joyce.html

 

[Cymro]

I like this one.

If the Doe were three months pregnant, she would have found out about her pregnancy right when Joyce disappeared.

I think that Joyce is young to have had breast implants - she wasn't living away from home at the time of her disappearance, and she was only 19 - and LA is a long way from La.

Against that, the time line is good (for an initially voluntary disappearance). She is within the estimated height range and although her weight is below the estimate, eating junk food on the road or just gaining weight in the early stages of pregnancy would account for that as it's only a small discrepancy. In fact it's a small enough discrepancy to be accounted for by an estimating error.

I've just noticed that the Doe's height (64.2") is above the range given (5'2" to 5'4") so taller possible matches shouldn't be excluded.

The Doe's distinguishing characteristics may or may not be consistent with Joyce - more information there would be helpful - but the fact that Joyce was in a car accident and the Doe appears to have been, is suggestive of a match.

Another point in favor of this being a match is that there is no mention of Joyce's DNA being in CODIS - the Doe's is, in which case a DNA entry would be a rule out by default.

 

[Cymro]

I can't understand why this case is still unsolved.

Lots of reasons, sorry...

A lot of police departments wouldn't take reports of missing persons. Lots of missing persons are runaways who eventually return or who are located anyway and an unsolved crime doesn't look good on the PD's books. So the assumption was stronger in the past that missing people were just runaways. It's not against the law to be missing.

That is of course if the family would even bother to file a report. People drop out of their lives for many reasons - drugs, bad boyfriends, stress, or their families die, split up, or otherwise cause them to drift away. Friends may assume that their friend has moved away, or just failed to maintain contact. If a person is a transient or involved in drugs, the victim's friends may not be together enough to make the report in the first place.

If indeed a report was taken it may automatically have been closed when the missing girl turned 18 and was deemed to be independent - or just not yet put online or in a place where it could be shared with other agencies who have a matching body turn up.

Then of of course this Doe may be someone who moved away with a boyfriend when she was pregnant, either to get away or to go back home - except that she never made it to her destination. Those where she was from know she left, those where she was going had no reason to expect her... and she'd have fallen through the cracks.

 

[mannip23]

Yea this one gets me because its so close to home. You would think being pregnant, having plastic surgery to her breast and nose, and having good teeth that someone reported her missing. Klug looks like the best match here imo.

 

[mannip23]

Nevermind Namus said Klug has been ruled out. The other good matches in this thread like michelle and joyce seem to young to have implants.

 

[Indianagirl]

What do you guys think of this missing woman as a possible match?

Sandra Faye Norman

Missing Since: July 2, 1984 from Jacksonville, Florida
Classification: Endangered Missing
Date of Birth: February 13, 1958
Age: 25 years old
Height and Weight: 5'3, 100 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Caucasian female. Dark brown hair, brown eyes. Norman's married name is Thompson. She smoked cigarettes in 1984. Her teeth were in good condition. Norman was last seen in Jacksonville, Florida on July 2, 1984. The exact circumstances of her disappearance are unknown. She was a prostitute in 1984, and associated with at least one drug dealer. Norman left behind the daughter she had with her husband. Her case remains unsolved and few details are available.
http://charleyproject.org/cases/n/norman_sandra.html

She disappeared two years before jane doe, but due to her lifestyle, she could have ran off on her own accord and then been killed 2 years later. Height, weight (not exact, but close), and age, match up. One problem is the hair, unidentified has auburn and Sandra has dark brown. Thoughts?

ETA: Sorry, I don't know how to do side by side photos.

Jane Doe

 

[CarlK90245]

ETA: Sorry, I don't know how to do side by side photos.

Here.

ETA: The vital stats are OK, and the circumstances and personal history are not inconsistent with the two-year time lag.

There is a good facial resemblance. Her nose is a little longer when I superimpose the images, but everything else lines up reasonably well. I have not checked if she is on the rule-out list, or if she is in CODIS.

But if not, it's worth a shot.

 

[Indianagirl]

Thanks Carl! She's not listed as a rule-out on Namus. Is there any other place to check for a rule-out?

 

[CarlK90245]

Thanks Carl! She's not listed as a rule-out on Namus. Is there any other place to check for a rule-out?

Porchlight keeps listings of submissions and rule-outs. I don't know how current it is though.

Submissions
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showforum=118

Rule-Outs
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showforum=119

BTW, when you get a bad link to Doe Network, you can usually copy the URL, paste it into your browser, and change the "doenetwork.us" to "doenetwork.org".

ETA - Sandra Faye Norman doesn't have a NamUs page, and I don't see anything about DNA in her DoeNet page.

 

[nola]

I like the idea that this person was missing for a while --it could explain why someone with such distinguishing features has not been identified. Sandra Norman fits this scenario.
I also came across Tinze Huels missing from Tampa since 1984. Height and weight are reasonable. I have attached Tinze's photo. What do you all think?
Maybe Tinze left Florida to start a new life...

 

[nola]

Here is the NamUs link for Tinze Huels. She could have have had injuries and surgery after leaving FL.

 

[Indianagirl]

Just a little update! I sent the case manager an email over a week ago about Sandra Faye Norman being a possible match. I still have not heard back from her. I'll give it more time before I try to contact someone else. (Not sure who else I would contact though)

 

[OnlineInstructor]

Denise Diane Pflum
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/262dfin.html

Missing the same teeth--Coincidence?

 

[Indianagirl]

Denise Diane Pflum
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/262dfin.html

Missing the same teeth--Coincidence?

Denise has a couple of fillings that jane doe doesn't. Also, I believe those 4 missing teeth are the wisdom teeth, making them fairly common to be missing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ironic that you bring up Denise, she went missing from my home town, so I'm always on the look out for her!

 

[reasypeasy]

Denise has a couple of fillings that jane doe doesn't. Also, I believe those 4 missing teeth are the wisdom teeth, making them fairly common to be missing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ironic that you bring up Denise, she went missing from my home town, so I'm always on the look out for her!

There was another Jane Doe a while back that got me wondering if she was Denise... the investigators have the Doe described as black with white admix, but for various reasons the circumstances just said "Denise" to me.
The thread
Help on a cold case puzzle/grocery bag - Doenetwork case 349UFPA - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
my post to the thread
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Help on a cold case puzzle/grocery bag - Doenetwork case 349UFPA

 

[nola]

Did LE rule out Sandra Norman? The nose not matching up, is a good indicator that rhinoplasty could be why. I live in St Tammany Parish --and am happy to reach out to LE if you guys would like. Anyone have an opinion on Tinze Huels? This case is perplexing in so many ways...

 

[Indianagirl]

Did LE rule out Sandra Norman? The nose not matching up, is a good indicator that rhinoplasty could be why. I live in St Tammany Parish --and am happy to reach out to LE if you guys would like. Anyone have an opinion on Tinze Huels? This case is perplexing in so many ways...

Several weeks ago, I sent an email to the case manager listed on namus about Sandra Norman being a possible match and still haven't received a reply. Any help you can give would be great! I'm pretty new at this and have never called LE. I've only had email correspondance.

 

[Indianagirl]

Just a little update!

I received an email from the case manager in regards to Sandra Norman.

Email:
I spoke with the agency where Sandra was reported missing. There are no dental records available and her family is refusing to give DNA. We cannot do a comparison without one of those. I am making a file note to look into this later if the situation ever changes. However, I think Sandra is more similar to our case 85-01 than she is to 03-35.
Helen

Wonder why Sandra's family refuses DNA testing? I guess there isn't anything else we can do in regards to Sandra being a possible match....

 

[CarlK90245]

... However, I think Sandra is more similar to our case 85-01 than she is to 03-35.
Helen

Interesting that Sandra is on their radar for case 85-01. She came up on my radar just a few days ago with regard to the same case. I remembered that she was already being considered for Lake Ponchartrain Jane Doe and figured that it must be something about the artist's style that pegs Sandra Norman to these LSU Faces Lab recons.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/191ufla.html

BTW, DoeNet has the case number incorrectly noted as 85-10.

Wonder why Sandra's family refuses DNA testing?

With some families, they don't want to think anything other than that their loved one will come home alive some day. It's almost as if they feel like they are betraying their promise to never give up on them.

 

[someoneschild]

In December I posted a thread for Sallie Margaret Reed as a possible match to this Jane Doe.http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4567792

I submitted her name to Helen Bouzon at Faces. Helen responded saying that she would try to determine if she could get dental information for Sallie. Unfortunately, Sallie's missing person file at the Louisiana Repository for Unidentified and Missing People indicates that there are no dental records nor is there DNA on file and I have not heard back from Helen. Namus does not list her as a rule out so I am assuming she has not been compared.