Landscaper says Terri Horman wanted him to kill her husband!

[mmmagique]

In all the true crime shows I've watched in which a spouse wants to pay someone to off another spouse, they give them some money (or maybe sex) as a down payment and promise to pay the rest when the insurance pays off. I'm assuming that's where the "lots of money" was to come from.

Otherwise, why not just divorce him?

 

[Billylee]

In all the true crime shows I've watched in which a spouse wants to pay someone to off another spouse, they give them some money (or maybe sex) as a down payment and promise to pay the rest when the insurance pays off. I'm assuming that's where the "lots of money" was to come from.

Otherwise, why not just divorce him?

That's a very good question. And I keep asking myself, over and over, why not? The ONLY other answer I can come up with that makes any sense at all is "because she could not keep Kyron, if she divorced Kaine".

She's had no problem finding men to support again after other divorces, even to the point of supporting her children from a previous marriage. So why not, just divorce Kaine and get on down the road. The above is the only answer I can logically come up with, other than IF there was some huge amount of insurance money she wanted to get her hands on. JMO

 

[mmmagique]

Some reasons I came up with as I was drifting off for my nap:

1. insurance, not just life, but some credit lines are automatically paid off if the owner is killed.

2. No question about who would get baby K. I'm sure if they had the divorce talk, Kaine was very clear that he would fight her for custody.

3. Social Security survivor's benefits for baby K resulting from her father's death.

Besides the insurance and the other benefits listed above, she was probably the main beneficiary in his will (which I hope he has had the time and foresight to change, even with all that is going on.)

So she probably gets the house she found and chose, the truck and the car, no fighting about who gets the baby, insurance money, probably some pesky bills paid off, she's in charge of baby K's inheiritance and SS survivor's benefits, and plenty of community sympathy and support.

Sadly, I don't think Kyron played into this scenario at all. If he were gone, there would be even more left over for her and the baby.

 

[tlcya]

I find it really telling that LE to this day has not charged Terri with attempting to take out a "hit" on her husband. This tells me that LE has only the landscaper's word that this is the case and zero substantiating evidence. That means no texts, phone calls, emails, bank withdrawals, etc. that can back this man's tale up.

I also find him not credible as we do not have his name, cannot sleuth him, and most importantly, he did not come forward with this story until police tracked him down after Kyron's disappearance.

OT, but only slightly: Question for the mods - IF we did have the MFH plot landscaper's name, he still could not be sleuthed, correct? or could he be as he according to his own statement to LE was approached to kill someone for profit and failed to report that?

more OT with a question for our legal eagles, could landscaper face criminal charges for not reporting to LE the purported MFH job for Terri? Is that illegal to know someone wants to commit murder and be approached to participate and then not report it?

 

[pdx]

we don't know that at all, imo. All we know is that a mortgage lien was recently filed. And it was filed well after TH hired Houze, and well after KH's attorney filed the papers asking where the money came from. I have wondered what the actual timing of the mortgage is and whether it really is the source of her funds. I've been out of town, though, so maybe I missed something.

Just as an FYI, 'recording' with the county up here in Multnomah often runs far behind the actual event (sometimes by month), so the posted date for the mortgage/title on the refi may have no relation to the date the new mortgage actually happened.
IOW, we can't tell with much precision when the funding happened.

 

[wondering1]

Just as an FYI, 'recording' with the county up here in Multnomah often runs far behind the actual event (sometimes by month), so the posted date for the mortgage/title on the refi may have no relation to the date the new mortgage actually happened.
IOW, we can't tell with much precision when the funding happened.

Thanks. I did read that somewhere and was aware. I still wonder, though, because I am a huge cynic

btw, does anyone have a link to the list of sources her lawyer said the money did NOT come from. Maybe it was in the opposition to KH's request for the source, but I can't recall anymore whether that was a separate motion, or part of something else. tia

 

[Billylee]

Thanks. I did read that somewhere and was aware. I still wonder, though, because I am a huge cynic

btw, does anyone have a link to the list of sources her lawyer said the money did NOT come from. Maybe it was in the opposition to KH's request for the source, but I can't recall anymore whether that was a separate motion, or part of something else. tia

Is this what you're referring to:

Bunch also contends that Kaine Horman "grossly misstated" the amount of money paid to Terri Horman's criminal attorney, Stephen Houze.

Kaine Horman's attorney, Laura Rackner, filed papers earlier this week saying that Terri Horman paid $350,000 to Houze.

Bunch contends in the motion to hold the divorce in abatement, that Terri Horman "did not borrow the money to pay for Mr. Houze's attorney fees, the money to not come from her funds, and she's not asserting that her attorney fees with Mr. Houze are any sort of marital debt."


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

 

[wondering1]

Is this what you're referring to:

Bunch also contends that Kaine Horman "grossly misstated" the amount of money paid to Terri Horman's criminal attorney, Stephen Houze.

Kaine Horman's attorney, Laura Rackner, filed papers earlier this week saying that Terri Horman paid $350,000 to Houze.

Bunch contends in the motion to hold the divorce in abatement, that Terri Horman "did not borrow the money to pay for Mr. Houze's attorney fees, the money to not come from her funds, and she's not asserting that her attorney fees with Mr. Houze are any sort of marital debt."


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html

Yes...tytyty!!!

 

[Openmyeyes]

IMO, it doesn't make sense that LE would actually initiate a sting for a MFHP with her intended victims child missing. If they really thought this would work, then I think we all
need to chip in and get some real investigators on this case.

 

[debs]

IMO, it doesn't make sense that LE would actually initiate a sting for a MFHP with her intended victims child missing. If they really thought this would work, then I think we all
need to chip in and get some real investigators on this case.

Has Portland LE addressed this sting? Did they discuss setting it up? Or was it "LE" and undefined as to which jurisdiction that "LE" represented.

 

[Donjeta]

I find it really telling that LE to this day has not charged Terri with attempting to take out a "hit" on her husband. This tells me that LE has only the landscaper's word that this is the case and zero substantiating evidence. That means no texts, phone calls, emails, bank withdrawals, etc. that can back this man's tale up.

I also find him not credible as we do not have his name, cannot sleuth him, and most importantly, he did not come forward with this story until police tracked him down after Kyron's disappearance.

OT, but only slightly: Question for the mods - IF we did have the MFH plot landscaper's name, he still could not be sleuthed, correct? or could he be as he according to his own statement to LE was approached to kill someone for profit and failed to report that?

more OT with a question for our legal eagles, could landscaper face criminal charges for not reporting to LE the purported MFH job for Terri? Is that illegal to know someone wants to commit murder and be approached to participate and then not report it?

IMO there might be much more than the man's word but e-mails, texts, phone calls and bank withdrawals might not be enough to convict for MFH. If the e-mails and texts use veiled terms and hinting but do not explicitly refer to a murder for hire they could be explained away. Bank withdrawals can happen for a variety of reasons unconnected with MFH. If there is a record of a phone call taking place but the actual conversation wasn't recorded it's a word against word about what was the content and the intent of the phonecall.

I am not sure that us knowing someone's name makes them credible and us not knowing their name makes their story untrue. There are lots of witnesses whose names we don't know and I wouldn't like to question their honesty just because. It may just mean they didn't choose to draw public attention on themselves which might IMO sometimes reflect favorably on their credibility (ie they're not in it for their 15 minutes of fame).

I don't recall it being reported what the landscaper's response to the MFH idea was. Did he consider it? If he did it might explain why he didn't volunteer the information ages ago. It might make his morals questionable but make the story more credible because he would have more to lose if he invented a slanderous story that has himself acting in an immoral manner.

 

[ThoughtFox]

If the Murder for Hire Plot "never happened" or "didn't matter" then why hasn't Terri or her Attorney come out and said that? Why didn't they contest the restraining order decree in which the "plot" was mentioned?

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

To me, that is the actual evidence that the MFH plan exists - the fact that it was mentioned in a legal document separating TH from her daughter, and yet she hasn't fought it, or denied it, or even made a statement about it in any way.

Why? Probably because the police have copious evidence that it occurred, and they at least have the sexting files from the cell phone proving she was trying to deal somehow with this gardener/landscaper guy. The document mentions hundreds of text messages, and we know that there have been huge amounts of subpoenas, some of which for other phones involved. TH is up to her neck in this stuff, which is why she is staying quiet, in my opinion.

The sting didn't work, but that doesn't mean the MFH didn't happen. One conclusion doesn't rule out another. JMO

 

[passionflower]

and there was enough proof to get Kaine out of the house with Baby K and file for RO and a divorse asap..............
no proof.........Kaine probably would of stayed, IMO

 

[Billylee]

This is all so bizarre, I mean, LE hasn't "said" that TH tried to kill her husband. The media sat that Kaine has been made aware of a MFHP, by LE, isn't that correct? Where did the original story of the "sting" appear and who leaked it? If LE set up a sting and it didn't work, then it doesn't sound like something they'd be notifying the press about. I'm gonna have to go back and read all that crap again, because it's just soooo bizarre.

Anyway, maybe TH's attorney is waiting until someone actually charges her with something so they can see the evidence. Make sense to me.

 

[OneLove]

That's a very good question. And I keep asking myself, over and over, why not? The ONLY other answer I can come up with that makes any sense at all is "because she could not keep Kyron, if she divorced Kaine". She's had no problem finding men to support again after other divorces, even to the point of supporting her children from a previous marriage. So why not, just divorce Kaine and get on down the road. The above is the only answer I can logically come up with, other than IF there was some huge amount of insurance money she wanted to get her hands on. JMO

BBM

But she could not keep Kyron if Kaine died either; custody would revert to his mother, Desiree. She would lose Kyron either way.

 

[pdx]

This is all so bizarre, I mean, LE hasn't "said" that TH tried to kill her husband. The media sat that Kaine has been made aware of a MFHP, by LE, isn't that correct? Where did the original story of the "sting" appear and who leaked it? If LE set up a sting and it didn't work, then it doesn't sound like something they'd be notifying the press about. I'm gonna have to go back and read all that crap again, because it's just soooo bizarre.

Anyway, maybe TH's attorney is waiting until someone actually charges her with something so they can see the evidence. Make sense to me.

My recollection of events, for a quicky; I can look this up later if required.

LE told Kaine enough for him to reasonably conclude (don't have the specific lingo to hand) that the threat was real and true. He left the home over the weekend.
On Monday, he filed for divorce and the restraining order. They had the RO sealed, apparently convincing the judge that the information was sensitive enough (to the investigation?) to do so.

Meantime, the Oregonian got curious and learned through its sources what was in the sealed RO. When they confirmed it, they ran it in the following Sunday's paper.
LE never intended for the story to get out.

The 'sting' was not entirely secret. The events were broadcast over open scanner channels, which several people, including media, heard. License plate numbers were given out on open channels. What exactly the sting was trying to accomplish.. well, we don't know the whole story yet, do we?

 

[debs]

My recollection of events, for a quicky; I can look this up later if required.

LE told Kaine enough for him to reasonably conclude (don't have the specific lingo to hand) that the threat was real and true. He left the home over the weekend.
On Monday, he filed for divorce and the restraining order. They had the RO sealed, apparently convincing the judge that the information was sensitive enough (to the investigation?) to do so.

Meantime, the Oregonian got curious and learned through its sources what was in the sealed RO. When they confirmed it, they ran it in the following Sunday's paper.
LE never intended for the story to get out.

The 'sting' was not entirely secret. The events were broadcast over open scanner channels, which several people, including media, heard. License plate numbers were given out on open channels. What exactly the sting was trying to accomplish.. well, we don't know the whole story yet, do we?

The RO was sealed, it was made public that the RO was sealed, and while in the Horman home, MC took pictures of the RO, effectively violating the judge's seal. MC turned his phone over to LE and that's when we learned he'd snapped the pics and apparently had several nekkie shots of Terri as well as hundreds of sexties from her. For whatever reason after that, the RO was unsealed and released to the public, along with all the other salacious details of his sordid interactions with Terri.

IF those pictures are of Terri and IF she's the one who actually sent them, and most definitely IF MC didn't take it upon himself to snap the photos of the RO behind Terri's back.

 

[Calliope]

The RO was sealed, it was made public that the RO was sealed, and while in the Horman home, MC took pictures of the RO, effectively violating the judge's seal. MC turned his phone over to LE and that's when we learned he'd snapped the pics and apparently had several nekkie shots of Terri as well as hundreds of sexties from her. For whatever reason after that, the RO was unsealed and released to the public, along with all the other salacious details of his sordid interactions with Terri.

IF those pictures are of Terri and IF she's the one who actually sent them, and most definitely IF MC didn't take it upon himself to snap the photos of the RO behind Terri's back.

Wasn't there a report that MC claimed to have done all of this in order to get info out of Terri? If so, he may well have taken the photo without her knowledge. (either way, it's pretty creepy)

 

[momtective]

I'm remembering that TH placed an ad to hire a landscaper, more than one responded to the ad (I believe this was on NG). I'm wondering why she would have needed to place an ad for a landscaper when her best friend was a landscaper.
I'd also like to know if anyone in the Portland area had a landscaper plant a large tree on June 4th. I'm talking about a tree with a large root that would have required a rather large, deep hole.

 

[cypress]

If the Murder for Hire Plot "never happened" or "didn't matter" then why hasn't Terri or her Attorney come out and said that? Why didn't they contest the restraining order decree in which the "plot" was mentioned?

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

To me, that is the actual evidence that the MFH plan exists - the fact that it was mentioned in a legal document separating TH from her daughter, and yet she hasn't fought it, or denied it, or even made a statement about it in any way.

Why? Probably because the police have copious evidence that it occurred, and they at least have the sexting files from the cell phone proving she was trying to deal somehow with this gardener/landscaper guy. The document mentions hundreds of text messages, and we know that there have been huge amounts of subpoenas, some of which for other phones involved. TH is up to her neck in this stuff, which is why she is staying quiet, in my opinion.

The sting didn't work, but that doesn't mean the MFH didn't happen. One conclusion doesn't rule out another. JMO

IMHO, the alleged MFH plot went something like this:

The landscaper and Terri were strolling around the homestead one day casually discussing blackberries and brush that needed to be cleared away. The landscaper noticed Terri was upset. He casually and politely inquired about how she was doing. He got an earful. She brought her emotional dumptruck to his doorstep and unloaded. She told him about Kaine, perhaps about her thankless roles as mother and wife, that he was controlling of her spending, about how he'd hurt her emotionally, perhaps that she suspected him of having an affair, etc. The landscaper jokingly said, "I'll take care of him for you." Terri replied seriously, "Would you really? I'll give you a thousand dollars!" Perhaps that was the end of it, or perhaps the landscaper returned the next week and Terri, in a moment of anger, asked, "Are you still willing to take care of it for me?" Terri and the landscaper had a laugh and that was the end of it.

Was she being serious? Did the landscaper take it seriously? We know it never went beyond the talking phase. There's no indication real planning took place. No money exchanged hands. Based on news reports, no payment of any kind was exchanged. There is no written or digital corroboration. The landscaper never approached LE with any concerns about Kaine's safety. Kaine is still alive. No one else has come forward to say that they too were approached by Terri about killing her husband.

I realize that this is my interpretation, but Terri seems to run off at the mouth, so I can reasonably envision a scenario in which this was discussed but not seriously. It makes sense that the landscaper would not come forward because, perhaps, he didn't take it seriously either. And then Kyron went missing. Does Kyron going missing have any real bearing on the conversation Terri had six or seven months prior? People say things they don't mean. People are careless in what they say and in what they write. Terri is known to be careless. When the landscaper approached her in an attempt to extort money out of her (re: the sting), not only did she not incriminate herself, but she called 911. If there was a real plan to off Kaine, I don't believe LE would only have the landscaper's word for it.

Having said all that, if it was a joke, there's no way Houze would advise Terri to try and clear things up. People will only hear that Terri and the landscaper "talked about it," but they won't hear, "in a totally joking way."

Personally, I believe the landscaper and Terri did discuss it, but I don't believe it was ever serious.

I know not everyone has a child go missing, but IMHO, everyone has skeletons in their closets, conversations they've had that could be construed as inappropriate (I could just shoot him!), frustrations about spouses and/or children they've vented to a friend or confidante, that when twisted a certain way, and from a singular perspective, could be used to support a horrifying theory.

Or, IMHO, Terri could be guilty of attempting to hire someone to kill her husband and innocent of harming Kyron. The two are mutually exclusive, IMHO. Regardless of whether or not Terri is guilty of the accusations against her, Houze is not going to defend her in the court of public opinion. He's only going to defend her when and where it really and truly counts.