Landscaper says Terri Horman wanted him to kill her husband!

[stmarysmead]

Until there is any credible evidence NOT to be, I am thankful to the Landscaper for cooperating with the investigation. Because of him, there may someday be justice for Kyron. I say, "Thank you."

When a tragedy like a missing child happens, the public joins the clamor for people to get involved and help LE. But when witnesses step up and do tell what they know, oftentimes, the witness becomes a target of innuendo and supposition.

How hurtful!. I wonder how many people decide not to tell what they know for just that reason. How many children could be found or grieving families given closure if more people felt safe to talk....to aid in the investigation...without fearing the backlash?

It's sad. And counterproductive.

The public wants people to come forward, except when they do and they don't like what they say.
Anyway, I say thanks to this Landscaper. Thanks for having the courage to tell your story.

 

[liz b.]

It's crossed my mind that maybe Rudy Sanchez was working undercover on a case involving Terri unrelated to the MFH or Kyron.

Or, maybe Terri knows Rudy's real name and that is how her attorney knows that he has an AKA.

I think her lawyer(s) have unearthed quite a bit of information about this man, beyond what his legal name is ... MOO Bunch would not let that "alias" comment slip out for nothing. IMO He is choosing what to say, and what words to use very carefully. IMO.

All JMO

 

[Bluestars]

I think her lawyer(s) have unearthed quite a bit of information about this man, beyond what his legal name is ... MOO Bunch would not let that "alias" comment slip out for nothing. IMO He is choosing what to say, and what words to use very carefully. IMO.

All JMO

I can see only two reasons for this:

1. Rudy was working undercover and Terri's MO will be to say she was set up. or
2. They will try to discredit Rudy by digging up all of the dirt on him to prove he is an unreliable witness

All just my own opinion. I do agree that there was a reason that her lawyer brought this up. I believe it was to let the "other side" know that they have additional information regarding Rudy that they are sitting on. IMO

 

[cluciano63]

I don't claim to know anything about this Rudy Sanchez or if he is the landscaper. I am confused as to why the assumption he is illegal?

I think it is too early to thank him, as we don't even know if he is telling the truth about the plot, or if he changed his story under oath, etc. We don't know anything about him, that I know of. He could even be involved in taking Kyron, for all I know.

I would not mind if someone who has info but did not take part, received immunity for cooperating. Somebody has to tell LE something, sometime, or this may never be solved.

 

[eyes4crime]

I don't claim to know anything about this Rudy Sanchez or if he is the landscaper. I am confused as to why the assumption he is illegal?

I think it is too early to thank him, as we don't even know if he is telling the truth about the plot, or if he changed his story under oath, etc. We don't know anything about him, that I know of. He could even be involved in taking Kyron, for all I know.

I would not mind if someone who has info but did not take part, received immunity for cooperating. Somebody has to tell LE something, sometime, or this may never be solved.

BBM
EXCELLENT point Cluciano63...we could be thanking some (unusual person)

 

[liz b.]

I don't claim to know anything about this Rudy Sanchez or if he is the landscaper. I am confused as to why the assumption he is illegal?

I think it is too early to thank him, as we don't even know if he is telling the truth about the plot, or if he changed his story under oath, etc. We don't know anything about him, that I know of. He could even be involved in taking Kyron, for all I know.

I would not mind if someone who has info but did not take part, received immunity for cooperating. Somebody has to tell LE something, sometime, or this may never be solved.

Compelling arguments in this post, IMO. I observed that many latinos who are not in the country legally do use aliases,and also sometimes other people's identity. I wondered if this was the case with " Rudy Sanchez ". I believe it is within the realm of possibility. MOO

I wish he had come forward right away. MOO

All JMO

 

[Scamperoo]

Until there is any credible evidence NOT to be, I am thankful to the Landscaper for cooperating with the investigation. Because of him, there may someday be justice for Kyron. I say, "Thank you."

When a tragedy like a missing child happens, the public joins the clamor for people to get involved and help LE. But when witnesses step up and do tell what they know, oftentimes, the witness becomes a target of innuendo and supposition.

How hurtful!. I wonder how many people decide not to tell what they know for just that reason. How many children could be found or grieving families given closure if more people felt safe to talk....to aid in the investigation...without fearing the backlash?

It's sad. And counterproductive.

The public wants people to come forward, except when they do and they don't like what they say.
Anyway, I say thanks to this Landscaper. Thanks for having the courage to tell your story.

I think it is too soon to thank this LS for anything. He never came forward with information but was sought by LE. He has admitted that he was part of a MFH plot that included Terri Horman, this may or may not be true. Either way he lied to save himself or told the truth to save himself...a very unsavory character who is the last person who deserves the the label courageous. JMHO

 

[cluciano63]

If he had felt the urge to tell LE about this plot even a few weeks sooner, Kyron might be safe with his father, as the baby is now, if indeed Terri is the culprit.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

"Meanwhile, I wonder if the identity of the LS will ever be revealed. And, as other posters have pointed out, how credible he is, and also how likely he might be to "aid" LE in return for them "helping" him. Goes on all the time. "

Respectfully snipped and BBM

Or what he has to say even relevant anymore. JMO

 

[GrainneDhu]

If he had felt the urge to tell LE about this plot even a few weeks sooner, Kyron might be safe with his father, as the baby is now, if indeed Terri is the culprit.

In an attempt to be fair to everyone involved in this highly unusual case, I think it's possible that IF the MFH allegations are true, the LS may have taken them at the time to be a joke. Then, after Kyron disappeared, that joke took on a more sinister possible meaning.

An example from my own life. At a party with several doctors present, there was a certain amount of black humour going on. One doctor told a joke about the difference between the Heimlich manoeuvre (pantomimed the Heimlich self-rescue thrust) and the Kevorkian manoeuvre (pantomimed covering the mouth while pinching the nostrils shut).

Everyone laughed because it was taken as a joke. It really wasn't any darker than the other black humour that was flying around the table at the time.

But if that doctor had a string of patients die in the next few months, that joke might take on a very different meaning.

I hasten to add this was more than 15 years ago and no such string of patient deaths has occurred!

I tend myself to doubt the LS's story due to several factors but I also try to be fair and acknowledge that there may have been good reasons he didn't come forward until LE found him after Kyron's disappearance.

 

[stmarysmead]

I think it is too soon to thank this LS for anything. He never came forward with information but was sought by LE. He has admitted that he was part of a MFH plot that included Terri Horman, this may or may not be true. Either way he lied to save himself or told the truth to save himself...a very unsavory character who is the last person who deserves the the label courageous. JMHO

I must respectfully disagree.

There is no evidence in credible media (our standard) that the Landscaper is "unsavory." Being fearful to get involved in a high profile police investigation does not make one "unsavory." Being the target of unwanted "sexual overtures" does not make the target "unsavory."

Once again, in order to clean up Terri Horman, one has to assume the worst of others. It's curious that in Terri's case, the public is always asked to wait for facts, give her the benefit of the doubt. Then how to understand a different standard for the Landscaper? Why is he allowed to be deemed "unsavory" but not Terri?


All the wording we have seen to date about the sexual advances indicate that Terri was the aggressor.

To repeat once again..Terri's sexual overtures to Cook are described as

"hundreds of text messages as well as well as several photographs of Respondent in various stages of undress and graphic sexual activity...."


and

"sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner (Kaine)."

This makes the the Landscaper the TARGET of Terri. That does not make the Landscaper "unsavory"...it makes him Terri's victim too.


Did the Landscaper "lie to save himself?"

Save himself from what? What real evidence is there that this man is anything but a hard working man who got caught up in a high profile case? His name and ethnicity certainly cannot be used to make assumptions that he has anything to "save himself" from. So what else is there? Respectfully I'd like to know any basis for saying the Landscaper had anything to "lie to save himself" about.

Likewise, "told the truth to save himself." I would think instead he told the truth to save Kyron...or save Kaine and Desiree from any more pain from a woman (Terri) that he had come to know had the capacity for evil.

And the fact is that the police found him credible....something we cannot say for Terri Horman.

Again, until there is evidence to the contrary, I thank the Landscaper for assisting in the investigation. All over the Internet, (and thank you, Mods, NOT HERE) there are vicious rumors about this man. No proof, just rumor. A lot of it based on sleuthing a name we now find isn't even his. This is what I think is "unsavory." The vilification of a witness by those who do not like what he had to say.

If we want people to cooperate with LE in these cases, at the least, can we not treat them with respect until THERE IS PROOF to the contrary? Don't we need to help create an environment where people feel safe helping LE?

Somewhere someone might be wondering today if his whole life is pristine enough, his family perfect enough, his ethnicity unsuspicious enough...that he dares to step forward and help find a missing child.

That is sad.

 

[Donjeta]

I am not ready to call the LS a victim of Terri's sexual overtures because we don't know how he responded. He could have been a willing participant not a sufferer, a bit like MC appears to have been. There was this quote that sounds like he might have been looking forward to more:

The landscaper - whom Terri had hired to do work last November without Kaine's knowledge - came forward to investigators as they reached out to everyone that they could find who had had contact with the family. While he said he had no intention of carrying out the plot, he did believe that he would be getting something from Terri.

"She led him on," sources said.

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

But I agree that it sounds to me like the LS was getting graphic photos and texts, more than winks, smoke signals and petroglyphs if whatever he got resembles the stuff MC got. I would say that sexual overtures conveyed in smoke signals are substantially different from racy photos in a cell phone.

 

[BeanE]

I am not ready to call the LS a victim of Terri's sexual overtures because we don't know how he responded. He could have been a willing participant not a sufferer, a bit like MC appears to have been. There was this quote that sounds like he might have been looking forward to more:


http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

But I agree that it sounds to me like the LS was getting graphic photos and texts, more than winks, smoke signals and petroglyphs if whatever he got resembles the stuff MC got. I would say that sexual overtures conveyed in smoke signals are substantially different from racy photos in a cell phone.

I'll agree on the winks But not on the smoke signals and petroglyphs. It is the relationship concerns, conveniently being left out of the quotes from the RO document, and overtures that Ms. Rackner claims that LE said resemble those (concerns and overtures) sent to Cook. Not pictures and texts. Relationship concerns and sexual overtures.

So I agree the types of relationship concerns and sexual overtures would, if these claims are accurate, resemble each other, and be similar to each other. Not necessarily in the means used to convey them, but in the content and 'theme'.

For example, if Terri sent texts to Cook saying "My husband is inattentive to me.", I would expect that she verbally said to the landscaper, or drew petroglyphs, or sent smoke signals etc that conveyed sentiments similar to that, e.g., perhaps, "My husband has been neglecting me."

I can't think of what kind of pictures one might send to convey a relationship concern. A picture of oneself alone at a romantic dinner table to convey a feeling of being neglected? I don't know.

It is flawed logic that it had to be pictures and texts, because the portion of the quote being left out can't be made to be congruent with that.

IMO

The full quote, with the part being left out included:

Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner.

SMM, perhaps if you would kindly explain how the relationship concerns fit with your theory of there having to have been pictures, I'd be better able to understand your thinking on this? Thanks.

 

[stmarysmead]

I am not ready to call the LS a victim of Terri's sexual overtures because we don't know how he responded. He could have been a willing participant not a sufferer, a bit like MC appears to have been. There was this quote that sounds like he might have been looking forward to more:


http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

But I agree that it sounds to me like the LS was getting graphic photos and texts, more than winks, smoke signals and petroglyphs if whatever he got resembles the stuff MC got. I would say that sexual overtures conveyed in smoke signals are substantially different from racy photos in a cell phone.

BBM That's a valid point. But neither does it sound like Terri was his victim.

Let's say that eventually we discover that although the sexual overtures happened, Terri was not serious about the murder plot. In a missing child case, I think we still would want that information shared and investigated...even if it comes to nothing.

If this were my child I would be desperate for any lead. One never knows what small detail might be the break needed to bring a child home. If the Internet creates an environment where a person can have his own reputation questioned, his own motives smeared...won't more people decide not to get involved?

Just how can a witness determine on their own if what they saw helps or not? Do we want a witness deciding on his own that "talk" about paying him to kill Terri's husband means nothing? Do we want witnesses who don't know what LE has, deciding to hold back THEIR piece of the puzzle? My answer is NO.

Maybe LE has assigned this "alias" to the Landscaper for very good reasons. To date, they have not repudiated the Murder For Hire plot...not once. Maybe he is being protected for good reason. If so,that indicates he has important credible information.

IMO the Landscaper did the right thing to share what he knew. If one believes in the concept that we all have a responsibility to do whatever we can to protect children, to help bring missing children home...then we have the responsibility to share with LE whatever we know, to answer their questions to the fullest, even if later that information is discounted.

This is what the Landscaper did. It is up to LE to knit his information together with the rest of their evidence. When they DID, apparently they felt strongly enough to go to Kaine and tell him they had probable cause to believe Terri wanted him dead and did something to Kyron.

All the Landscaper did, is tell what he knew, as he interpreted it. There is nothing unsavory about that IMO. That is what I think most of us want witnesses to do.

So I thank him for that...no matter if his information breaks this case or not. A child is missing. I think LE needs everyone's cooperation.

 

[BeanE]

I must respectfully disagree.

There is no evidence in credible media (our standard) that the Landscaper is "unsavory." Being fearful to get involved in a high profile police investigation does not make one "unsavory." Being the target of unwanted "sexual overtures" does not make the target "unsavory."

Once again, in order to clean up Terri Horman, one has to assume the worst of others. It's curious that in Terri's case, the public is always asked to wait for facts, give her the benefit of the doubt. Then how to understand a different standard for the Landscaper? Why is he allowed to be deemed "unsavory" but not Terri?

BBM. Now the sexual overtures were "unwanted"? Where is it stated that the landscaper felt the overtures were "unwanted"?

That's quite a stretch. We simply don't know if the landscaper wanted the sexual overtures or not, or how much or how little he wanted them. He may have been just dyin' for somebody to make sexual overtures to him, and loved receiving them.

 

[stmarysmead]

I'll agree on the winks But not on the smoke signals and petroglyphs. It is the relationship concerns, conveniently being left out of the quotes from the RO document, and overtures that Ms. Rackner claims that LE said resemble those (concerns and overtures) sent to Cook. Not pictures and texts. Relationship concerns and sexual overtures.

So I agree the types of relationship concerns and sexual overtures would, if these claims are accurate, resemble each other, and be similar to each other. Not necessarily in the means used to convey them, but in the content and 'theme'.

For example, if Terri sent texts to Cook saying "My husband is inattentive to me.", I would expect that she verbally said to the landscaper, or drew petroglyphs, or sent smoke signals etc that conveyed sentiments similar to that, e.g., perhaps, "My husband has been neglecting me."



I can't think of what kind of pictures one might send to convey a relationship concern. A picture of oneself alone at a romantic dinner table to convey a feeling of being neglected? I don't know.

It is flawed logic that it had to be pictures and texts, because the portion of the quote being left out can't be made to be congruent with that.

IMO

The full quote, with the part being left out included:

Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner.

SMM, perhaps if you would kindly explain how the relationship concerns fit with your theory of there having to have been pictures, I'd be better able to understand your thinking on this? Thanks.

I will explain...even though I did not get my morning wink.

I read that sentence as saying that her complaints about her marriage (relationship concerns) AND the sexual overtures were similar with both men in both instances.

So if she said "Kaine never gives me money." to the LS , she said words to the same effect to Cook. Also she didn't tell one man Kaine was too possessive and another that he ignored her. She made "similar" complaints to both men. Therefore the stories by the two men seem to confirm each other.

Now, you are correct that we are not told that the Landscaper received texts or naughty pictures. But we DO know that Cook received such "stuff."To me this statement says that the Landscaper received "overtures" that were "similar." to the powerful sexual imagery and words Cook received.

No one can say a provocative smile is "similar" to a body part close-up...so this implies to me that the sexual provocativeness and intensity had to be equivalent or "similar."

Maybe not texts...you are right. But texts are not ruled out.

But "similar" sexual overtures means to me that LE saw a pattern here in her complaints and her sexual approach to both mean. And her sexual approach to Cook was intense and uninhibited to say the least.

 

[Donjeta]

I'll agree on the winks But not on the smoke signals and petroglyphs. It is the relationship concerns, conveniently being left out of the quotes from the RO document, and overtures that Ms. Rackner claims that LE said resemble those (concerns and overtures) sent to Cook. Not pictures and texts. Relationship concerns and sexual overtures.

So I agree the types of relationship concerns and sexual overtures would, if these claims are accurate, resemble each other, and be similar to each other. Not necessarily in the means used to convey them, but in the content and 'theme'.

For example, if Terri sent texts to Cook saying "My husband is inattentive to me.", I would expect that she verbally said to the landscaper, or drew petroglyphs, or sent smoke signals etc that conveyed sentiments similar to that, e.g., perhaps, "My husband has been neglecting me."

I can't think of what kind of pictures one might send to convey a relationship concern. A picture of oneself alone at a romantic dinner table to convey a feeling of being neglected? I don't know.

It is flawed logic that it had to be pictures and texts, because the portion of the quote being left out can't be made to be congruent with that.

IMO

The full quote, with the part being left out included:

Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. Cook resemble those made to the man Respondent previously attempted to murder Petitioner.

SMM, perhaps if you would kindly explain how the relationship concerns fit with your theory of there having to have been pictures, I'd be better able to understand your thinking on this? Thanks.

Not SMM but I don't think anybody said that the relationship concerns were necessarily conveyed in pictures. Words would be more convenient for that, and at least I got the notion from the court document that there were text messages in addition to the photos. We saw some of the messages containing words in the 350K exchange so we know for sure it's not just photos that MC and Terri exchanged. I suppose you could send derogatory photos of your husband and convey the same message. But so far no reason IMO to think that this is what Terri did.

When it comes to sexual overtures, however, it has been alleged that the sexual overtures received by MC include some photos that are very graphic. Since the sexual overtures are said to resemble each other as well it is an easy assumption that the LS got something very graphic as well, since graphic sexts tend to resemble each other more than graphic sexts resemble, say, a flirty face to face exchange with clothes on or a midnight phone call vaguely interpretable as a come-on if you read between the lines. But I could be wrong, and I don't know if it's even important.

 

[BeanE]

I would like to see a poll asking, "If someone asked you to murder their husband, and offered to pay you for it, would you immediately report it to LE?". I think the answer would be a resounding "Yes".

That is what bothers me about the landscaper's story - that if he really, really believed she was attempting to hire him to murder Kaine, that knowing that put Kaine in danger of losing his life, he left Kaine out there exposed to that.

That, and that alone, removes all credibility from - and certainly any gratitude toward - the landscaper, for me.

If someone asked me to murder their husband, with or without an offer of payment or payment in kind, I would beat feet to the nearest PD, and on my way, I'd call the target and tell him, so that they could immediately protect themself.

 

[stmarysmead]

BBM. Now the sexual overtures were "unwanted"? Where is it stated that the landscaper felt the overtures were "unwanted"?

That's quite a stretch. We simply don't know if the landscaper wanted the sexual overtures or not, or how much or how little he wanted them. He may have been just dyin' for somebody to make sexual overtures to him, and loved receiving them.

Or he might have been just trying to weed the flowerbeds and Oregon's Mrs Robinson was posing naked in the mulch. Could go either way...:crazy:

 

[BeanE]

I will explain...even though I did not get my morning wink.

I read that sentence as saying that her complaints about her marriage (relationship concerns) AND the sexual overtures were similar with both men in both instances.

So if she said "Kaine never gives me money." to the LS , she said words to the same effect to Cook. Also she didn't tell one man Kaine was too possessive and another that he ignored her. She made "similar" complaints to both men. Therefore the stories by the two men seem to confirm each other.

Now, you are correct that we are not told that the Landscaper received texts or naughty pictures. But we DO know that Cook received such "stuff."To me this statement says that the Landscaper received "overtures" that were "similar." to the powerful sexual imagery and words Cook received.

No one can say a provocative smile is "similar" to a body part close-up...so this implies to me that the sexual provocativeness and intensity had to be equivalent or "similar."

Maybe not texts...you are right. But texts are not ruled out.

But "similar" sexual overtures means to me that LE saw a pattern here in her complaints and her sexual approach to both mean. And her sexual approach to Cook was intense and uninhibited to say the least.

Hold on to your hat, SMM. We are in complete agreement.

Here's your morning wink -

Thank you for sticking with this, and discussing it through with me.