LATEST EVIDENCE Discuss NEW AND DEVELOPING information here

[njustice]

Baby teeth do not have the same root structure as adult teeth, I don't think them being loose and scattered is surprising. The tape would not hold them in place as it would only block the exit one direction, sorry to be graphic, but they wouldn't have to come out what use to be her mouth.

That's true, hadn't thought of it that way...

 

[Jolynna]

The pesticide sprayers are very interesting. IIRC, didn't Geoge spray a chemical (lye/caustic) on the lawn to keep protesters off the property (by burning their feet)?

I do remember hearing he used to work for a pesticide company but had quit due to a workers' comp. injury.

Did KC spray the caustic (bleach) on the body to kill maggots and speed up the decomposition?

Did they also find a pink ponytail holder in the bag, which was how they so quickly identified the body to be a female?

He used lime which is caustic if wet.

Feet-burning and fertilizing isn't all lime is known to do.

Farmers are encouraged to cover their dead livestock with lime to decrease the smell and discourage disease spread through flies and wildlife.

It is the MOST commonly known decomposition smell killer. Besides burning feet, lime would help prevent future cadaver dog hits.

 

[nancy botwin]

Bold is mine.

Nancy, I love your analogy. Describes this saga perfectly. I can't wait for the next belly flop...Baez's!

Thank you lacey clementine, Jolynna and Marina2 for the analogy-support :blowkiss: I like to obfuscate the ugliness with wordplay because there's a lot of ugliness in this case... (aka :furious:CASEY:furious
And Mariana2, I also await Baez's next great belly flop. He doesn't even swandive-- he's all unruly cannonballs (saying "I'm going to get my girl!" outside of the jail:waitasecand belly flops ("I have no further questions, etc. hehe. :waitasec
---

Most of the experts have stated that their personal opinion is that she was duct taped before she died. The only person who believes it was after death is LP. If KC was in a panic, then she must have duct taped her before she died b/c she would not have had the calmness of mind to do it while she's in a rush to get rid of the body. The body started to smell really bad after one day so I doubt she would put the duct tape on her afterwards even though this is what I want to believe.

Yeah-- there are lots of different and, IMO, insightful ways to look at it-- I'm interested to know what evidence was ACTUALLY found at the scene-- I don't necessarily believe we'll find out there was some of Caylee's identifiable bedding, her swimsuit and part of a dress-- like LP said last night. So I keep wondering just how disorganized she was. If/when we get to hear that info, I think we can perhaps have a better understanding of what happened.

Personally, if Casey used chloroform to purposely kill Caylee, I think it's likely that after/in the course of administering some low-level sedation, Casey tightly wrapped duct tape around Caylee's head to cover her mouth. The tape would have been secure enough to block airflow thru the mouth, especially if Caylee was subdued. Then I think that once she had done the taping, she likely covered Caylee's nose/mouth area with a chloroform saturated rag and held it there until she was overdosed.

If the death was caused in another way--even in an "accident" caused by inadvertently overdosing her with chloroform during some fake kidnapping plot; or inadvertently overdosing her with sedatives/leaving her in the trunk so she could go out-- I think Casey would have been capable of taping her mouth to create the appearance of a kidnapping after she discovered Caylee's body. I agree that she probably couldn't have effectively done the skull wrapping/mouth taping days after death bc of changes occuring thru decomposition. But I do think she had it in her.

 

[mysteriew]

I'm disturbed at the recent reports that they've found teeth scattered throughout the woods and I'm trying to understand what that may mean. Shouldn't the teeth still be intact? And what does this say about the reports about the duct tape around the mouth? Scratching my head on this one.

Good point. You would think that if the mouth was duct taped that the teeth wouldn't have means to escape the mouth as long as the duct tape was intact.

The only thing that I can think of is that the skull was disturbed after the decomposition was pretty far advanced and the soft tissues were almost gone. Thus the teeth could have come out through the base of the skull.

With an adult the teeth are pretty firmly attached to the jaw bone. But are a child's? Would they detach quicker?

According to the initial story the meter reader picked up a bag and a skull fell out. The teeth could have fallen out when the skull hit the ground or they could have fallen out in the bag and remained there until the bag was picked up.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

As far as the body being there (as opposed to "moved there"). It was there - it was the first and only spot (aside from the trunk).

Does JB and Phil Keating and the rest of "Team Casey" really think I'm that stupid to believe someone not only just moved that body there but that whoever did this awful deed also opened the bag and spread all those bones, teeth, etc. all over God's creation?

I've really had enough of this. The simple fact that this poor child's bones were scattered over half an acre or better is PROOF ENOUGH that her little body has been there for quite some time.

"Nuff said - case closed.
(snort snort)

 

[murdershewrote]

I think maybe KC sprayed the pesticide around the bag because, in some way, she didn't want bugs, animals, etc. to get to Caylee's body and thought that would protect her. Alot of bodies are covered and protected in some way by people who murder loved ones or people they know...it's very common.

 

[nancy botwin]

Good point. You would think that if the mouth was duct taped that the teeth wouldn't have means to escape the mouth as long as the duct tape was intact.

The only thing that I can think of is that the skull was disturbed after the decomposition was pretty far advanced and the soft tissues were almost gone. Thus the teeth could have come out through the base of the skull.

With an adult the teeth are pretty firmly attached to the jaw bone. But are a child's? Would they detach quicker?

According to the initial story the meter reader picked up a bag and a skull fell out. The teeth could have fallen out when the skull hit the ground or they could have fallen out in the bag and remained there until the bag was picked up.

I think once the soft tissue was gone-- that would include gum tissue-- the teeth would easily detach because baby teeth are so small and have pretty insubstantial roots. Especially since the body was apparently subjected to enough environmental interference to cause complete skull detachment. ugh. just typing this is horrifying.

 

[tequilla shots]

Didn't George tell LE (maybe the FBI?) that he wrote down everything so that he could keep his story straight...or something to that effect? Maybe they took George's "how to keep my story straight" notebook.

if thats the case he is not doing a very good job. but it is a good point

 

[karen7868]

Which is why they're asking for immunity and stating they'll now cooperate with LE. Good point!! I bet they did confiscate the notebooks.
The silence from the A camp is golden though isn't it?

Sorry if mentioned already....at work and trying to get caught up.

I was wondering about the notebooks and paper they took as evidence from the A's home the other day.

Could this be a script the A's wrote so EVERYONE could get their stories straight? I have always wondered why they ALL agreed upon the 9th as being the date before the tape was discovered and they had to change the date. Thought they might have used the 9th date to make it look like the same perp was responsible for little Caylee and the JB park jogger NG that was killed and found on the 10th.

Wouldn't that be something if LE found a notebook that had this whole 30 day script written by Cindy? Is this why Cindy kept saying she had given KC 30 days?

 

[amysmom]

I'm disturbed at the recent reports that they've found teeth scattered throughout the woods and I'm trying to understand what that may mean. Shouldn't the teeth still be intact? And what does this say about the reports about the duct tape around the mouth? Scratching my head on this one.

I can't figure this out either unless the skull wasn't completely intact?

 

[wallflower67]

This bit of news surprised me because all along I have been thinking KC had possession of the body for some time (at least one week.) If the body was dumped shortly after the slaying, what would account for the decomp in the trunk?

Shortly could mean within the week, as opposed to a month or something. Shortly is a reletive term. I think they are trying to squash rumors that the body was moved.

Personally, I do think Casey used the back yard to wrap her up in linens, bedding, or whatever, and put her in the bag. That would account for the hit of the cadavar dogs.

I'm thinking she didn't tie the bag tight enough to hold in decomp smell and fluids, thus the leak. There could be a lot of fluids that leak out. Mabye even soak the bedding. Or maybe just didn't wrap her right.

Even a few days would cause a huge smell. My cat just caught a mouse and I dumped it in the snow in the area between my neighbors and my fences because I didn't want it stinking up my garbage. I have a really sensitive nose!

then my step-son reminded me that my garbage pickup is tomorrow, so i think I would have been okay. I went to a lot of trouble to get that darn mouse body out of my house without touching it! I couldn't find my duct tape to wrap it in. :-(

 

[nancy botwin]

Sorry if mentioned already....at work and trying to get caught up.

I was wondering about the notebooks and paper they took as evidence from the A's home the other day.

Could this be a script the A's wrote so EVERYONE could get their stories straight? I have always wondered why they ALL agreed upon the 9th as being the date before the tape was discovered and they had to change the date. Thought they might have used the 9th date to make it look like the same perp was responsible for little Caylee and the JB park jogger NG that was killed and found on the 10th.

Wouldn't that be something if LE found a notebook that had this whole 30 day script written by Cindy? Is this why Cindy kept saying she had given KC 30 days?

Now THIS is some exciting evidence to talk about! AND it's the kind of evidence that could at least potentially find its way into a doc. dump!
That would be amazing if LE recovered an actual "script." Oh wow. I'm sure whatever they found in those notebooks/papers was pretty amazing. Maybe messages from Casey too?? I hope we get to see!

 

[indicat]

If the death was caused in another way--even in an "accident" caused by inadvertently overdosing her with chloroform during some fake kidnapping plot; or inadvertently overdosing her with sedatives/leaving her in the trunk so she could go out-- I think Casey would have been capable of taping her mouth to create the appearance of a kidnapping after she discovered Caylee's body. I agree that she probably couldn't have effectively done the skull wrapping/mouth taping days after death bc of changes occuring thru decomposition. But I do think she had it in her.

So would you think that if it was an accidental overdose that she taped her that way after she was dead? She had to have either a) acted in a panic if was an accident and in that panic mode wrapped the tape around her head b) did this on purpose and used this as a form of suffocation. The theory that she used the tape to keep a chloroform rag in place to sedate while partying does not make sense, getting that tape off of Caylee once wrapped around her head would have been a nightmare and would have left chunks of her hair ripped out.

 

[karen7868]

He used lime which is caustic if wet.

Feet-burning and fertilizing isn't all lime is known to do.

Farmers are encouraged to cover their dead livestock with lime to decrease the smell and discourage disease spread through flies and wildlife.

It is the MOST commonly known decomposition smell killer. Besides burning feet, lime would help prevent future cadaver dog hits.

You are so right about the lime. We had an ex-cop in my hometown that killed his wife and son and buried in them in the barn and covered with lime to hide the smell from cadaver dogs.

He lived on a farm though; however the A's do not. What would they have had lime on hand for anyway?

 

[Taed]

I don't know about gaffer's tape, but duct tape is 3-4 inches wide. So I guess it might be possible that one strip of tape would be enough.

I just looked at my duct tape, and it's 2 inches wide. I then searched at HomeDepot.com, found 8 types of duct tape, and all of it was either 1.89 or 2 inches wide.

So, I have not found any duct tape wider than 2 inches. Do you really have duct tape that wide, or were you just guessing as to its width?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?recordId=640&storeZip=94086&langId=-1&searchRedirect=duct+tape&storeCity=Sunnyvale&navFlow=3&mode=autoSelectAndSet&cm_sp=searchredirect-_-bm_tape_flcat_duct_tape-_-x-_-x&jspStoreDir=hdus&reload=true&storeState=CA&catalogId=10053&zip=94087&storeId=10051&distance_1=100&showStores=false&categoryID=502234&forcCatKeyword=duct+tape

 

[sarah7855]

I'm disturbed at the recent reports that they've found teeth scattered throughout the woods and I'm trying to understand what that may mean. Shouldn't the teeth still be intact? And what does this say about the reports about the duct tape around the mouth? Scratching my head on this one.

Hmmm, that's a really good point! Can anyone maybe give some idea how this would be possible?
If tape was all the way around the skull, shouldn't all the teeth be intact underneath the tape?

 

[nancy botwin]

Did anyone else hear that the defense was contemplating a 15-year plea deal before the body was found?

I've seen mention of a potential plea having been in the works--- was this actually an option presented to Casey?? How do we know this? She CERTAINLY should have taken that. I'm glad she didn't though.

 

[21merc7]

I just looked at my duct tape, and it's 2 inches wide. I then searched at HomeDepot.com, found 8 types of duct tape, and all of it was either 1.89 or 2 inches wide.

So, I have not found any duct tape wider than 2 inches. Do you really have duct tape that wide, or were you just guessing as to its width?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?recordId=640&storeZip=94086&langId=-1&searchRedirect=duct+tape&storeCity=Sunnyvale&navFlow=3&mode=autoSelectAndSet&cm_sp=searchredirect-_-bm_tape_flcat_duct_tape-_-x-_-x&jspStoreDir=hdus&reload=true&storeState=CA&catalogId=10053&zip=94087&storeId=10051&distance_1=100&showStores=false&categoryID=502234&forcCatKeyword=duct+tape

There are many sizes of duct tape. A few months ago I went to Lowe's for that and some other things, the many varieties and sizes were baffling to say the least!

 

[nancy botwin]

So would you think that if it was an accidental overdose that she taped her that way after she was dead? She had to have either a) acted in a panic if was an accident and in that panic mode wrapped the tape around her head b) did this on purpose and used this as a form of suffocation. The theory that she used the tape to keep a chloroform rag in place to sedate while partying does not make sense, getting that tape off of Caylee once wrapped around her head would have been a nightmare and would have left chunks of her hair ripped out.

oh i don't think she taped/chloroformed caylee while partying. I think that when she chose to wrap tape around Caylee's head to cover her mouth, she did it with the knowledge she would not remove the tape from a living Caylee. I think she could have taped her mouth shut and HELD the rag over her nose/mouth to purposely kill Caylee.
if it was an "accident"--
I think she seemed to have had a kidnapping scheme on the backburner for some time-- google searches reveal and Rev. Grund alluded to it in interviews. I think she could have scrambled to the kidnapping ploy as a Plan B to cover up having caused an "accidental' (I use quotes bc, legally, this would not be an accident) death caused by drugging/locking caylee in a trunk. Or the "accident" could have happened by inadvertently overdosing Caylee during the course of a fake kidnapping-- tape would already be there , or she was planning on taping her anyway before they were "rescued" -- I've thought about all the scary contingencies a lot, unfortunately-- I think I'm not doing a good job of expressing them--

 

[karen7868]

Now THIS is some exciting evidence to talk about! AND it's the kind of evidence that could at least potentially find its way into a doc. dump!
That would be amazing if LE recovered an actual "script." Oh wow. I'm sure whatever they found in those notebooks/papers was pretty amazing. Maybe messages from Casey too?? I hope we get to see!

Wouldn't it be amazing though? Could this be why George and Cindy are all of a sudden seeking immunity? Handwriting doesn't lie and they would know they would have been caught with no way to explain their way out of it.

Always amazed me how detailed George was about KC & Caylee's clothing the supposedly last day he saw them. And Cindy's story about the car accident that Zanny and Raquel had and how KC witnessed it even though she was EIGHT cars behind.

Cindy, even though I feel sorry for her loss, seems to like to be in control of every conversation, always finishing Geoge's stories when in interviews. Example, the other night on LKL, she finishes his story by saying "and that's the last time you saw Caylee." It's like she doesn't want to give him a chance to mess up or "forget" his part of the script.