Laura Babcock Murder Trial 10.25.17 - Day 3

[JuneBug67]

She didn't make an appearance because she was under subpoena the whole time. First as a potential crown witness then as a potential defence witness. But for that, I suspect she would have been there.

That's an important point, but she wasn't there for the verdict either.

 

[ILoveDateline]

I think this testimony hints at how the police found out about Smich in the early days of the Bosma investigation, I've always wondered if police got tips about him, as well as by trolling through DM's phone:



So, someone else went to police, probably after DM was arrested and the incinerator story came out in early May, and told this story about Smich in the garage.

Also, Liberatore must have known all about the incinerator because of the press coverage of the Bosma murder, but he wasn't allowed to refer to it in court. Seemed like Dungey was insinuating he and his friends made up the story of "torching" the girl (the rap song just refers to "now her ashes lay", doesn't use the active tense), because of the news coverage about Bosma , but he's not allowed to say it either.

Apologies if I've misunderstood you, LE found out about Smich in a few ways in early May 2013: 1) Andrew Michalski (unclear if he gave Smich's name or if Smich just felt AM testimony against him should be thrown out) 2) Igor Tumamenko (photo lineup) and 3) Robert Bochenek (Suggested "Mark" was the second person on the test drive). Not necessarily int hat order. Smich filed a charter rights complaint about this. https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/d...sh=AAAAAQAKbWFyayBzbWljaAAAAAAB&resultIndex=6

ETA: these garage rap witnesses may be what put LE on the MS for the LB murder, in additional to phone/digital records, however.

 

[Tealgrove]

I wonder a lot about Laura.

What she could have been? What would she be doing today had her life not been cut short? Her friends miss her, and miss her bubbly personality, her zest for life and her smile.

I think Laura was a sweet vulnerable girl that, through mental illness and addiction, made poor decisions but kept on trying.
She was trying to get help. She was seeing Doctors. Laura was in pain and trying to find a way to ease it.

But she had a "friend" who gave her pills for her Birthday. A "friend" who by all appearances used her and lied to her. A "friend", who in the end, thought nothing of her, so he killed her and cremated her in an animal incinerator. And a guy wrote a rap song about it all that was totally disgusting, and void of any human emotion, other than joy at what had been done, or what HE had done.

I think a lot about Laura and the terrible fate that befell her. Just imagine, being wrapped up in a rug, lying there dead and possibly thrown in a barn for a couple weeks until the guy who killed you stopped by every now and then for a "smell check". And when the time was right he cremated you and that was that.

LE didn't think Laura was worthy of being looked for. They didn't care. Laura was just one of many missing, addicted, mentally ill people wandering the streets of Toronto.

I spend a lot of time these days thinking about Laura.

 

[mskrisc]

Can anyone recall the rough time period where DM was engaged to the unnamed woman who now lives abroad? She was the one in the engagement photos: http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/12/dellen-millards-engagement-photos.html

I'm trying to figure out where that timeline overlaps with the events around Laura Babcock. From the article, the engagement photos were taken in Spring 2011, however how long was the whole realationship?

Thanks

I recall reading the exact timeline... was it in ABros book “Dark Ambition”?
Engagement Photos in Spring of 2011 and she was well out of the picture at the time of WM’s death. A Dance article states she was moving to Bermuda to teach in July 2013.
As someone else posted, it came out during the TB trial that DM began dating CN while engaged to JS
Check Ann’s book for timeline maybe?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ms.elle]

That's an important point, but she wasn't there for the verdict either.

I'm pretty sure the rule is once the jury announces there's a verdict you have an hour to get there or you're out of luck. I think that's why the Bosmas stuck right by the court house while they were waiting. MB lives in Keswick. The verdict was in Hamilton. According to google maps, that's a 1.5 hour drive in good traffic. Plus, its logical she'd stay away and avoid the media at that point.

 

[billandrew]

The police recovered so many text messages from Millard's phone. I wonder if they recovered any messages with Babcock?

 

[JuneBug67]

I agree. But Millard seemed to be lacking in the close friend department as well. Sure he had a bunch of people around him at the time, but they were all parasites and only seemed to have come to know him in the few years previous. There just didn't seem to be any lifelong friends. No friends from high school. Only the odd acquaintance that told how weird Millard was, eating dog biscuits and such.

Yeah for sure...the whole picture was not typical. At one point he blamed his father for letting him eat copious amounts of pasta and thus allowing him to be overweight. On the one hand that's typical sociopathic processing, but on the other hand he has a point. It's part of a parents job to be attuned to the needs and best interests of a child, and if there was no attempt to guide him to healthier choices and no attempt to check in with his social situation at school - his dog biscuit friend talked about how he was always dressed like a hillbilly (or farmer)? - that's just more subtle neglect piled on. I think it is an accepted fact that his dad struggled with alcohol, so he probably didn't have a lot to give Dellen on the best of days.

 

[Jealoushe]

LE didn't think Laura was worthy of being looked for. They didn't care. Laura was just one of many missing, addicted, mentally ill people wandering the streets of Toronto.

I spend a lot of time these days thinking about Laura.

I think about this too. LE never think sex workers are important enough to look for. All they would have had to do would be question her friends in the days after she disappeared, and they would have easily been pointed to DM. Bosmas life could have been spared.

 

[JuneBug67]

I'm pretty sure the rule is once the jury announces there's a verdict you have an hour to get there or you're out of luck. I think that's why the Bosmas stuck right by the court house while they were waiting. MB lives in Keswick. The verdict was in Hamilton. According to google maps, that's a 1.5 hour drive in good traffic. Plus, its logical she'd stay away and avoid the media at that point.

Possibly that was the situation. Could she have been there for closing arguments do we know? I think my point is that it wouldn't be logical for every parent to stay away and avoid the media, even at that stage of the trial. But your overall point that we don't have a ton of information and that I am making assumptions is well taken.

Editing to add: We had a day and a half at least of jury instruction too. It would seem logical she could have attended that in addition to the closing arguments, but I can't say for sure.

 

[james9]

At trial he had to deny, that or spend 25 years in jail. But ya, I was just saying that to a friend. What happened in these guys lives that took them so far off the right path? Seeing them in court today I couldn't help feel the incredible waste of two lives. Millard especially could have done anything he wanted with his life. Smich just hitched his coach to the wrong wagon.

And I do feel Smich had remorse and second thoughts. I see his raps more as a need to confess more than bravado. I think at that point he was tied to Millard and couldn't get out. I recall from the first trial that Smich was physically ill on the first mission to steal the truck. I always wonder if he was sickened by the thought of reliving what he had already lived through with LB?

I disagree. I don't think Smich just hitched his coach to the wrong wagon. Lots of drug-addicted, impressionable young kids hung out with the older, rich guy (DM) and didn't end up escalating to murder. Plenty of DM's friends were willing to be on watch for his thefts, but murdering someone is a whole other level. At some point DM and MS decided they wanted to commit murder, and MS stuck with DM and went through with the TB murder (even after the LB murder; if they are convicted). If you recall there were text messages about building an empire together, and the TB murder was their first step.

During the TB trial, I never bought his story. It sounded made up from the beginning and contrived to match the evidence that had been disclosed.

Having said that, maybe he's not a psychopath like DM, and maybe he has some regrets now that he has been caught. But I don't see anything but bravado in his raps. He wanted to be the man. He wanted to be like DM and have his own crew some day, and he was a willing participant knowing full well that he was going to end the life of another human being to get his way. Look in his eyes: [video=youtube;JPp5fl9tlEw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPp5fl9tlEw[/video]

 

[Dion]

I can't help thinking it's extra weird hearing about about all these degenerates drinking peach schnapps in Smich's garage. It sounds like something you would drink at a garden party.

Is it because it's cheap or has high alcohol content?

 

[Jealoushe]

I think that little court docut there says it all about MS. He didnt think they had grounds to search and filed a human rights complaint? OK then...

 

[JuneBug67]

I can't help thinking it's extra weird hearing about about all these degenerates drinking peach schnapps in Smich's garage. It sounds like something you would drink at a garden party.

Is it because it's cheap or has high alcohol content?

It's just a standard liqueur - a girl's drink most often, so maybe it's what he could swipe from his house. He was the only male in the household, and maybe that's what was available. They were also younger kids, so wouldn't have developed a palette for Glenlivet or something by that point in their lives. Peach schnapps is sweet, and as far as one can say for alcohol, "kid friendly".

 

[JuneBug67]

I disagree. I don't think Smich just hitched his coach to the wrong wagon. Lots of drug-addicted, impressionable young kids hung out with the older, rich guy (DM) and didn't end up escalating to murder. Plenty of DM's friends were willing to be on watch for his thefts, but murdering someone is a whole other level. At some point DM and MS decided they wanted to commit murder, and MS stuck with DM and went through with the TB murder (even after the LB murder; if they are convicted). If you recall there were text messages about building an empire together, and the TB murder was their first step.

During the TB trial, I never bought his story. It sounded made up from the beginning and contrived to match the evidence that had been disclosed.

Having said that, maybe he's not a psychopath like DM, and maybe he has some regrets now that he has been caught. But I don't see anything but bravado in his raps. He wanted to be the man. He wanted to be like DM and have his own crew some day, and he was a willing participant knowing full well that he was going to end the life of another human being to get his way. RSBM

There is really very little to suggest Smich is psychopathic. He doesn't have any of the classic impulsivity or grandiosity, and his emotional reactions have always seemed normal. I'm thinking of things like displaying visible emotion when asked about his family in a jail interview and in court, his visible emotion on seeing Marlena when she entered the court room, his ability to keep himself under complete control while in court as Millard stared him down, rolled his eyes, waved at witnesses etc., his self discipline to finish his high school in jail, his appropriate emotion at the Bosma verdict. At the very least he doesn't obviously fit the profile anyway, not like Millard does.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Peach schnapps is sweet, and as far as one can say for alcohol, "kid friendly".

It is a 'ladies' drink so MS probably swiped it from his mother or sister. I drink it now and then mixed with orange or cranberry juice.

 

[winter2017]

Riiiiight.

 

[winter2017]

I always wondered how they found out about Smich , i did not think DM volunteered the information. So much was not allowed to be told. On one group a few people argued the rap songs he sang were just art expression. I did not think they were. I did believe that he was used by DM but now I don't think he was, just as willing to commit the murders as DM.

 

[james9]

I find Smich is only hard to figure juxtaposed with Millard. The latter is so clearly personality disordered - sociopathic, or as was speculated in Tim's trial, perhaps a victim of FAS. In court, without Millard there to make him seem relatively emotionally normal, Smich would just seem like an uncomplicated fit for the violent loser template. But with Millard there it's hard to understand why Smich would throw everything away for crimes that seem completely motivated by Millard's needs. Maybe he's really just that cruel and mercenary, that desperate for his Millard-supplied trinkets and baubles; the approval, and bonding and privileges. I find it enormously sad because of the waste and loss of life both, and I do feel sorry for them. Sorry in a different way that I am for the victims of course, but sorry nonetheless.

Millard was brilliant at giving these younger kids/adults hopes and dreams in order to manipulate them. He promised Smich that he would fund his rapping career, get him a studio, make him a record. Whatever dreams these impressionable people had, Millard would build them up, give them hope and manipulate them to do whatever he wanted them to do.

 

[JuneBug67]

I always wondered how they found out about Smich , i did not think DM volunteered the information. So much was not allowed to be told. On one group a few people argued the rap songs he sang were just art expression. I did not think they were. I did believe that he was used by DM but now I don't think he was, just as willing to commit the murders as DM.

Didn't Matt Hagerman testify that he gave Smich's name to the police? Or called it in via Crimestoppers?

 

[Kamille]

I think that little court docut there says it all about MS. He didnt think they had grounds to search and filed a human rights complaint? OK then...

I think it says more about the capabilities of his lawyer.

MOO